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Offline sinkspur

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Manufacturing Jobs Are Never Coming Back
« on: March 18, 2016, 01:47:29 pm »
IN REAL TERMS   8:33 AM MAR 18, 2016

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/manufacturing-jobs-are-never-coming-back/
Manufacturing Jobs Are Never Coming Back

By BEN CASSELMAN


A plea to presidential candidates: Stop talking about bringing manufacturing jobs back from China. In fact, talk a lot less about manufacturing, period.

It’s understandable that voters are angry about trade. The U.S. has lost more than 4.5 million manufacturing jobs since NAFTA took effect in 1994. And as Eduardo Porter wrote this week, there’s mounting evidence that U.S. trade policy, particularly with China, has caused lasting harm to many American workers. But rather than play to that anger, candidates ought to be talking about ways to ensure that the service sector can fill manufacturing’s former role as a provider of dependable, decent-paying jobs.

Here’s the problem: Whether or not those manufacturing jobs could have been saved, they aren’t coming back, at least not most of them. How do we know? Because in recent years, factories have been coming back, but the jobs haven’t. Because of rising wages in China, the need for shorter supply chains and other factors, a small but growing group of companies are shifting production back to the U.S. But the factories they build here are heavily automated, employing a small fraction of the workers they would have a generation ago.

Look at the chart below: Since the recession ended in 2009, manufacturing output — the value of all the goods that U.S. factories produce, adjusted for inflation — has risen by more than 20 percent, because of a combination of “reshoring” and increased domestic demand. But manufacturing employment is up just 5 percent. And much of that job growth represents a rebound from the recession, not a sustainable trend. (The Washington Post’s Abha Bhattarai had a great story this week on what the much-touted “manufacturing renaissance” really looks like through the eyes of one Georgia town.)



None of that, though, stops Donald Trump from promising at every debate and campaign stop to “take our jobs back from China and all these other countries.” Nor does it stop the other candidates from visiting factories in Southern and Midwestern towns and promising — albeit in less grandiose terms — to restore the lost luster of American manufacturing. “I’m tired of seeing them creating jobs all over the world while they’re laying off American workers,” Bernie Sanders told a crowd in Youngstown, Ohio, last weekend. “Not acceptable. That is going to end.”

There’s no mystery why candidates love to focus on manufacturing and trade. The U.S. economy faces deep structural challenges — stagnant wages, rising inequality, falling employment rates among men and other groups — and China presents an easy scapegoat. (Wall Street often plays a similar role, especially on the Democratic side.) And manufacturing in particular embodies something that seems to be disappearing in today’s economy: jobs with decent pay and benefits available to workers without a college degree. The average factory worker earns more than $25 an hour before overtime; the typical retail worker makes less than $18 an hour.

But those factory photo ops ignore an important reality: In 1994 there were 3.5 million more Americans working in manufacturing than in retail. Today, those numbers have almost exactly reversed, and the gap is widening. More than 80 percent of all private jobs are now in the service sector.



There is nothing wrong with politicians’ trying to save what remains of U.S. manufacturing, nor with trying to avoid repeating old mistakes on trade. But like it or not, the U.S. is now a service-based economy. It’s time candidates started talking about making that economy work for workers, rather than pining for one that’s never coming back.


Number of the week

Oil prices are tumbling, energy companies are shutting down rigs and laying off workers, and the unemployment rate in once-booming North Dakota soared to … 2.8 percent in January. That was a statistically insignificant tenth of a point higher than in December, but North Dakota retained the nation’s lowest unemployment rate (now tied with South Dakota) for the 90th consecutive month (that’s seven and a half years).

What gives? Partly it’s that the drilling slowdown will take a while to ripple through the local economy. But another likely factor is that people who lose their jobs aren’t sticking around. During the boom, thousands of workers moved to the North Dakota oil patch, often living in temporary “man camps” because of insufficient housing. Now the man camps are emptying out. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, employment in North Dakota is down by 3,300 in the past year, but unemployment is up by only 300.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2016, 03:33:06 pm by sinkspur »
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Offline andy58-in-nh

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Re: Manufacturing Jobs Are Never Coming Back
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2016, 03:18:55 pm »
Thanks for posting the article. I recall participating in a financial operations business seminar at McKinsey & Co. about six years ago, and nearly everything they predicted for 5-10 years out with respect to the US business environment has now come to pass.

The idea that manufacturing jobs that used to be performed in the US can simply be returned or repatriated to America is nonsensical, even more so to suggest that such might be accomplished by government fiat.

The hard truth is that the vast majority of such jobs are indeed gone, and are not coming back.

On the other hand, the US government can do a great deal do to promote new domestic manufacturing jobs - which, to be clear, will be and are very different from legacy industry manufacturing jobs. It might do so specifically by reducing barriers to entry for new industries, such as complex Federal regulations and their associated costs, legal expenses and effective tax rates. State governments can also assist by finding ways to craft their own business tax structures and streamline their licensing and approval processes so as to attract new employers.

Another serious problem that government has helped cause but cannot directly solve is a lack of qualified, educated employees for high-tech manufacturing positions. By subsidizing college education via student loan access in generalized fields of study, and through its control of national education policy, the Federal government has impeded market forces that might have otherwise militated toward the development of a more skilled workforce, as opposed to what we have now: a surplus of unemployed graduate students with degrees in economically worthless disciplines.

No matter what the answer, any politician who claims that they are going to "bring American jobs back" is either being disingenuous or simply does not understand the nature of the problem.       
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Offline Longiron

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Re: Manufacturing Jobs Are Never Coming Back
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2016, 03:25:21 pm »
Andy why are you wasting your time on a political forum? With that great insight of what is going to happen with the US TOTAL manufacturing economy you should be in VAGAS and betting? How U doing on the March Madness Brackets? I bet you have picked them all. BUT you are right in that if anyone other than TRUMP becomes the POTUS those manufacturing jobs are not coming back?  **nononono*
« Last Edit: March 18, 2016, 03:25:39 pm by Longiron »

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Re: Manufacturing Jobs Are Never Coming Back
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2016, 03:51:05 pm »
Thanks for posting the article. I recall participating in a financial operations business seminar at McKinsey & Co. about six years ago, and nearly everything they predicted for 5-10 years out with respect to the US business environment has now come to pass.

The idea that manufacturing jobs that used to be performed in the US can simply be returned or repatriated to America is nonsensical, even more so to suggest that such might be accomplished by government fiat.

The hard truth is that the vast majority of such jobs are indeed gone, and are not coming back.

On the other hand, the US government can do a great deal do to promote new domestic manufacturing jobs - which, to be clear, will be and are very different from legacy industry manufacturing jobs. It might do so specifically by reducing barriers to entry for new industries, such as complex Federal regulations and their associated costs, legal expenses and effective tax rates. State governments can also assist by finding ways to craft their own business tax structures and streamline their licensing and approval processes so as to attract new employers.

Another serious problem that government has helped cause but cannot directly solve is a lack of qualified, educated employees for high-tech manufacturing positions. By subsidizing college education via student loan access in generalized fields of study, and through its control of national education policy, the Federal government has impeded market forces that might have otherwise militated toward the development of a more skilled workforce, as opposed to what we have now: a surplus of unemployed graduate students with degrees in economically worthless disciplines.

No matter what the answer, any politician who claims that they are going to "bring American jobs back" is either being disingenuous or simply does not understand the nature of the problem.       

VERY good Andy and the SINGLE most important thing that must be done to promote NEW domestic manufacturing is to get rid of the current tax code which punishes anything made in the USA right from the outset!

http://fairtax.org
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Offline andy58-in-nh

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Re: Manufacturing Jobs Are Never Coming Back
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2016, 04:04:14 pm »
Andy why are you wasting your time on a political forum? With that great insight of what is going to happen with the US TOTAL manufacturing economy you should be in VAGAS and betting? How U doing on the March Madness Brackets? I bet you have picked them all. BUT you are right in that if anyone other than TRUMP becomes the POTUS those manufacturing jobs are not coming back?  **nononono*

Ummm...isn't it time for your nap?
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Offline kevindavis007

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Re: Manufacturing Jobs Are Never Coming Back
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2016, 06:08:20 pm »
Even if manufacturing jobs do come back nit going to amount to anything and here is why. In 10 - 15 years, a lot of factories will be automated.  I hate so say this but the golden age of American Manufactoring is over and it is not going to come back.
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Re: Manufacturing Jobs Are Never Coming Back
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2016, 06:26:01 pm »
Manufacturing jobs per se, maybe not, but there will be an increased need for technicians to keep the robots functional and operational. Engineers and draftsman for design, construction workers and tradesmen to build and maintain new factories and manufacturing facilities. Increased jobs in transportation to move raw materials and finished products in the US. Somebody has to manufacture the robots.

Offline Frank Cannon

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Re: Manufacturing Jobs Are Never Coming Back
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2016, 08:50:13 pm »
All the people bitching about the loss of manufacturing jobs are the same ones driving Hyundais and demanding to pay no more than 38 cents for a lawnmower at Walmart. You can't have cheap shit and high paying jobs to make it.

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Manufacturing Jobs Are Never Coming Back
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2016, 09:22:37 pm »
Andy why are you wasting your time on a political forum? With that great insight of what is going to happen with the US TOTAL manufacturing economy you should be in VAGAS and betting? How U doing on the March Madness Brackets? I bet you have picked them all. BUT you are right in that if anyone other than TRUMP becomes the POTUS those manufacturing jobs are not coming back?  **nononono*

ROFLMAO!

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Re: Jobs Are Never Coming Back
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2016, 09:26:19 pm »
Trumps going to bring back those manufacturing jobs.   He said so. 

A-Lert

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Re: Manufacturing Jobs Are Never Coming Back
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2016, 09:27:18 pm »
All the people bitching about the loss of manufacturing jobs are the same ones driving Hyundais and demanding to pay no more than 38 cents for a lawnmower at Walmart. You can't have cheap shit and high paying jobs to make it.

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Offline kevindavis007

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Re: Manufacturing Jobs Are Never Coming Back
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2016, 10:04:16 pm »
Manufacturing jobs per se, maybe not, but there will be an increased need for technicians to keep the robots functional and operational. Engineers and draftsman for design, construction workers and tradesmen to build and maintain new factories and manufacturing facilities. Increased jobs in transportation to move raw materials and finished products in the US. Somebody has to manufacture the robots.


What makes you think that there will be construction robots??
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Offline kevindavis007

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Re: Manufacturing Jobs Are Never Coming Back
« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2016, 10:05:40 pm »
Manufacturing jobs per se, maybe not, but there will be an increased need for technicians to keep the robots functional and operational. Engineers and draftsman for design, construction workers and tradesmen to build and maintain new factories and manufacturing facilities. Increased jobs in transportation to move raw materials and finished products in the US. Somebody has to manufacture the robots.


You should be on the lookout for driver less  trucks..
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A-Lert

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Re: Manufacturing Jobs Are Never Coming Back
« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2016, 10:09:23 pm »

You should be on the lookout for driver less  trucks..

The technology has a ways to go.

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Re: Manufacturing Jobs Are Never Coming Back
« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2016, 10:12:34 pm »

What makes you think that there will be construction robots??

Where did I state that?

Offline kevindavis007

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Re: Manufacturing Jobs Are Never Coming Back
« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2016, 10:15:19 pm »
Where did I state that?


What I meant to say what makes you think there won't be any Construction Robots??
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A-Lert

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Re: Manufacturing Jobs Are Never Coming Back
« Reply #16 on: March 18, 2016, 10:21:30 pm »

What I meant to say what makes you think there won't be any Construction Robots??

Some construction jobs are automated now, but in the foreseeable future I haven't yet seen the steelworkers, carpenters, masons, pipefitters, etc. being replaced by robots.

Offline mountaineer

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Re: Manufacturing Jobs Are Never Coming Back
« Reply #17 on: March 18, 2016, 10:29:08 pm »
All the people bitching about the loss of manufacturing jobs are the same ones driving Hyundais and demanding to pay no more than 38 cents for a lawnmower at Walmart. You can't have cheap shit and high paying jobs to make it.
All of the union members I know around here are driving foreign cars, too.  :shrug:
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Manufacturing Jobs Are Never Coming Back
« Reply #18 on: March 18, 2016, 10:56:35 pm »

What makes you think that there will be construction robots??

Or more importantly,that Americans will be able to read and understand Chinese well enough to repair them?
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Manufacturing Jobs Are Never Coming Back
« Reply #19 on: March 18, 2016, 10:59:29 pm »
All of the union members I know around here are driving foreign cars, too.  :shrug:

I used to live in a city with a Ford plant back in the mid-70's,and there were so many Toyota and Datsun pu's and cars in the employee parking lots that it made the news when the Ford management people refused to let them park in the employee parking lot,in full view of people driving by.

And the union members bitched about it being unfair to them. That's how the local news became aware of it.
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Manufacturing Jobs Are Never Coming Back
« Reply #20 on: March 18, 2016, 11:04:33 pm »
All of the union members I know around here are driving foreign cars, too.  :shrug:

I bought a new Nissan in 06. It was manufactured and assembled in KY,IIRC. My next car was a Chevrolet HHR. It was manufactured in Mexico. To be replaced by a VW Passant that was made in Tn.

It's hard to tell or define what a foreign car is these days.
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Re: Manufacturing Jobs Are Never Coming Back
« Reply #21 on: March 19, 2016, 01:19:50 am »
Andy, thanks for a thoughtful post above.

But if the manufacturing jobs of which you speak "aren't coming back", why are we importing into America millions upon millions of low-skilled workers who in another time would be the type to fill such jobs?

If those jobs and industries are gone for good, we will have to accept that we can never mobilize and go to war as we did twice in the Twentieth Century. We no longer have the raw materials industries, the steel industries, the heavy manufacturing -- much of it gone for good. What's left couldn't do the task.

And if that's the case, how long before a nation that DOES have those things puts significant pressure on us, when we no longer have the ability to resist (short of using nuclear weapons which we'll never again use)? Of course, I'm talking about China.

The jobs that are disappearing once were the backbone of the working/lower-middle class. They were "the rung up" the ladder. I guess we can just tell 'em to take up software programming...

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: Manufacturing Jobs Are Never Coming Back
« Reply #22 on: March 19, 2016, 01:24:41 am »
All the people bitching about the loss of manufacturing jobs are the same ones driving Hyundais and demanding to pay no more than 38 cents for a lawnmower at Walmart. You can't have cheap shit and high paying jobs to make it.

 :amen:

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Re: Manufacturing Jobs Are Never Coming Back
« Reply #23 on: March 19, 2016, 01:35:06 am »
All the people bitching about the loss of manufacturing jobs are the same ones driving Hyundais and demanding to pay no more than 38 cents for a lawnmower at Walmart. You can't have cheap shit and high paying jobs to make it.

No, not all. I'm a Ford and Corvette guy.

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Re: Manufacturing Jobs Are Never Coming Back
« Reply #24 on: March 19, 2016, 01:44:38 am »
Some construction jobs are automated now, but in the foreseeable future I haven't yet seen the steelworkers, carpenters, masons, pipefitters, etc. being replaced by robots.

Hispanics do most of the Construction work.  As for Trump promising jobs he promised in Lerado Texas that he would bring back jobs from China and Japan and Hispanics were going to get them.
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