Author Topic: Cruz: Why Yes, Denying Trump the Nomination at a Contested Convention Would be Legitimate  (Read 614 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

HAPPY2BME

  • Guest
First, a few thoughts on last night's results, followed by a look at Cruz's remarks. Super Tuesday 3.0's big winner was Hillary Clinton. She dominated the delegate count, swept the night, and used her (grating, shouty) victory speech to focus her attention on Republican frontrunner Donald Trump -- the one Republican who's most likely to help solve some of her problems on the Left and among the so-called Obama coalition. She also witnessed the exit of Marco Rubio, who boasted some of the strongest general election fundamentals and head-to-head numbers of anyone in the race.

His potential threat has been neutralized, much to the delight of liberals. John Kasich closed strong and carried his home state of Ohio comfortably, denying Trump 66 delegates -- but he literally has no path to the nomination, outside of a contested convention from which he'd be exceedingly unlikely to emerge as the GOP standard bearer. There's an argument that his continued presence in the race might help siphon off Trump votes in certain areas and states moving forward, but it's more likely that he's maxed out his 'Stop Trump' utility at this point. Nevertheless, he vowed to fight on to Cleveland, and is making moves to that effect.

Which brings us to Ted Cruz. The Texas Senator came in third in last night's delegate race, but is the only Republican standing with a serious chance of stopping Trump. He welcomed Rubio supporters into the fold, offering kind words for his colleague from Florida. He's hoping to unite the anti-Trump movement and fight tooth and nail for delegates throughout the spring, culminating in a contested convention in July. More on that in a moment. Given Trump's very Super Tuesday, in which he appears to have won five of six nominating contests (Missouri is extremely tight and may go to a recount) and bagged the most delegates by far, Cruz's pre-Cleveland path to victory has all but evaporated.

In fact, Trump's delegate haul in Illinois and Missouri overcame his Ohio loss. He is a stronger frontrunner today than he was yesterday. But he's still not invincible. Why? Despite bragging about polling at 50 percent nationally in his victory speech, his polling average is nowhere near that mark at the moment. And then there's the polarization factor, which has given rise to entrenched opposition within a deeply dissatisfied center-right electorate:

Even if these contingents are sliced in half as the cycle progresses, those data points are still really problematic numbers for a candidate with so many serious structural vulnerabilities. Ted Cruz will now prosecute a two-pronged case against Trump: That he's unelectable in the fall, and that he's unworthy of both the conservative and populist mantles to which he's laying claim. Now, having dismissed and critiqued the concept of a contested convention for weeks, Cruz's campaign and allies should take note of the argument their candidate advanced with Hugh Hewitt last evening prior to returns coming in. There's a difference between an establishment-"brokered" convention and acontested convention, he said, contending that a scenario under which the delegate frontrunner doesn't end up claiming the final crown wouldn't necessarily be illegitimate:

For what it's worth, he also said he has "zero interest" in running as Trump's running mate, stating that the billionaire will lose to Hillary Clinton. John Kasich has also said there's "no way" he'll end up on Trump's ticket. As you contemplate the possibility of fireworks in Cleveland, keep in mind what the rules are, what the behind-the-scenes maneuvering might entail, and how a multi-ballot convention would work. As anti-Trump forces simultaneously gird for a convention battle and huddle over a potential independent bid, Ramesh Ponnuru devises a plan under which a contested convention would be as open and fair as possible. Interesting:

Republicans could change the rules of their convention to permit some kind of preferential ballot. The rule change would have to be proposed in advance, so that members of the convention’s rules committee have time to consider it before voting on it during the week before all the delegates arrive in Cleveland. Then, if it passes the committee, a majority of delegates would have to vote for it too. When it came time for the delegates to vote on the presidential nomination, delegates would rank their candidates — with pledged delegates putting the candidates to whom they are pledged at the top of their lists. It would probably also be necessary—to reduce the likelihood of accusations of dirty tricks — for each delegate to make his or her rank orderings public immediately after the vote.

It’s a process that would generate a majority for a candidate automatically: There would no need for multiple ballots, and thus no politicking between rounds of voting. The process would also be formally neutral. My guess is that most of the delegates who are not pledged to either Trump or Cruz will prefer the senator to the billionaire, and so the process will work to Cruz’s advantage. But it is certainly possible that Trump would win the instant runoff — and even possible, if less likely, that a third candidate could.Whoever lost the nomination contest would have no legitimate complaint with this process, which would be entirely above-board. Supporters of the losing candidate would, of course, still be able to withhold their votes from the nominee in the fall, by voting for a third-party candidate, or voting for the Democratic nominee, or just staying home. But they would have no grounds for arguing that the nomination had been stolen.

I'll leave you with two divergent takes on the road ahead, based on last night's outcomes:

Dave Wasserman‏@Redistrict
Bottom line: Hard to see how Trump DOESN'T get to 1,237 from here. Beating Cruz in red states, likely to beat Kasich in blue states.

Zeke MillerVerified account‏@ZekeJMiller
.@jaketapper: "We're probably going to be covering a contested Republican convention"

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2016/03/16/ted-cruz-why-yes-denying-trump-the-nomination-at-a-contested-convention-would-be-legitimate-n2134448

Offline ArneFufkin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,579
I support any legal technique to deny Trump the nomination if he is short the requisite delegates.   Trump wants to campaign within the Party's auspices, he abides by the Party rules and protocol.


HAPPY2BME

  • Guest
I support any legal technique to deny Trump the nomination if he is short the requisite delegates.   Trump wants to campaign within the Party's auspices, he abides by the Party rules and protocol.

================================

So you want Trump to be a deceptive, lying, manipulative cutthroat professional political hack?

Not sure he will sign up for that.

Offline truth_seeker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28,386
  • Gender: Male
  • Common Sense Results Oriented Conservative Veteran
I support any legal technique to deny Trump the nomination if he is short the requisite delegates.   Trump wants to campaign within the Party's auspices, he abides by the Party rules and protocol.
Just curious. Do you place any value in the "Will of the People" as expressed at the ballot box?

Or is your an effort to ignore that expressed will ??

"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Online libertybele

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 57,516
  • Gender: Female
...hmm...it looks like it is going to be quite awhile before we know who the nominee is.  The only way that this would be avoided is if we had a two man race (Kasich is in it to go to convention) and either Cruz or Trump would get the 1237 needed.  Otherwise its going to convention and I just don't see that sitting well with Trump supporters, especially if he's close to the delegate count. 

While I fully understand why Cruz doesn't want to run with Trump, I feel if he was running as Trump's VP, they would defeat Hillary. Not going to happen I know.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2016, 05:29:44 pm by libertybele »
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline truth_seeker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28,386
  • Gender: Male
  • Common Sense Results Oriented Conservative Veteran
...hmm...it looks like it is going to be quite awhile before we know who the nominee is.  The only way that this would be avoided is if we had a two man race (Kasich is in it to go to convention) and either Cruz or Trump would get the 1237 needed.  Otherwise its going to convention and I just don't see that sitting well with Trump supporters, especially if he's close to the delegate count. 

While I fully understand why Cruz doesn't want to run with Trump, I feel if he was running as Trump's VP, they would defeat Hillary. Not going to happen I know.
Even if Cruz is willing to run as VP, it is too early for him to concede that, politically speaking.

Trump could make a side "deal," one term (due to his age).
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline ArneFufkin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,579
Just curious. Do you place any value in the "Will of the People" as expressed at the ballot box?

Or is your an effort to ignore that expressed will ??

I demonstrated on a separate thread that Trump is not the "will of the people".  He received a little over 22% of all the votes cast yesterday.

He did not get a majority of votes in any GOP primary yesterday.

Citizens working within the Republican Party have worked tirelessly to build governing majorities on a local and national basis.  Without Trump's involvement or help.

Republicans hold 33 state Governor offices.  They hold the "Trifecta" of Governor, House (Assembly) and Senate in 23 states.  They are the majority in 34 State Assemblies and 36 State Senates.   The Party has been doing remarkable, conservative work on a local basis and building electoral majorities.

I advocate doing everything possible to forestall a megalomaniacal, liberal NYC crony and reality-show thug from tearing down everything honest conservatives and TEA Party stalwarts have worked hard the last 12 years to build to suit his ego and assuage the childish petulance of a minority of people voting in the GOP primaries.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2016, 05:38:52 pm by ArneFufkin »

Offline Sanguine

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 35,986
  • Gender: Female
  • Ex-member
Wait, wait!

This is talking about a "contested convention", not a brokered convention.  And, if no one candidate gets enough delegates to win the candidacy outright, then it is by definition a contested convention. 

Much ado about nothing.

Offline GAJohnnie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,866
Find it odd that the Hate Trump always squad thinks Trump is the "Fascist".

Offline Sanguine

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 35,986
  • Gender: Female
  • Ex-member
Find it odd that the Hate Trump always squad thinks Trump is the "Fascist".

And, even if that had a tiny bit of truth to it, what does it have to do with this thread?

Offline truth_seeker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28,386
  • Gender: Male
  • Common Sense Results Oriented Conservative Veteran
I demonstrated on a separate thread that Trump is not the "will of the people".  He received a little over 22% of all the votes cast yesterday.

He did not get a majority of votes in any GOP primary yesterday.

Citizens working within the Republican Party have worked tirelessly to build governing majorities on a local and national basis.  Without Trump's involvement or help.

Republicans hold 33 state Governor offices.  They hold the "Trifecta" of Governor, House (Assembly) and Senate in 23 states.  They are the majority in 34 State Assemblies and 36 State Senates.   The Party has been doing remarkable, conservative work on a local basis and building electoral majorities.

I advocate doing everything possible to forestall a megalomaniacal, liberal NYC crony and reality-show thug from tearing down everything honest conservatives and TEA Party stalwarts have worked hard the last 12 years to build to suit his ego and assuage the childish petulance of a minority of people voting in the GOP primaries.

So if I concede all of your statistical points, will you explain why in light of all that success, the polls say folks are angry and they truly want major change? Disruption? Voting for Trump and Cruz to prove the point.

They are fed up with political incumbency. They are fed up with unfulfilled promises. They are fed up with professional politicians that later turn out to be self-interested opportunists-going into office as near paupers, and coming out as millionaires set for life.

You can't beat something with nothing. Trump is something, even if you don't like him, he answers a call that is being made.

Do you think a brain trust of Romney, McConnell, Jeb-George-George Bush, Rove have the solution?
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline ArneFufkin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,579
And, even if that had a tiny bit of truth to it, what does it have to do with this thread?

This individual has about 4 contrived phrases/thoughts that he "hot keys" into every discussion.


Offline Carling

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,240
  • Gender: Male
I support any legal technique to deny Trump the nomination if he is short the requisite delegates.   Trump wants to campaign within the Party's auspices, he abides by the Party rules and protocol.

So you're saying Rule 40 shouldn't be changed, and that as of now Trump is the only candidate to win a majority of delegates in at least 8 states?  Which makes him the only eligible candidate as of now, even at a brokered convention.  I assume Cruz will get to 8 as well, so the choice is between Trump and Cruz.  I can live with either, but anybody else and I'm writing in Trump.

Or are you cool with the GOProgs "amending" Rule 40 next month at the convention rules meeting?
« Last Edit: March 16, 2016, 06:05:36 pm by Carling »
Trump has created a cult and looks more and more like Hitler every day.
-----------------------------------------------

Offline ArneFufkin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,579
So if I concede all of your statistical points, will you explain why in light of all that success, the polls say folks are angry and they truly want major change? Disruption? Voting for Trump and Cruz to prove the point.

They are fed up with political incumbency. They are fed up with unfulfilled promises. They are fed up with professional politicians that later turn out to be self-interested opportunists-going into office as near paupers, and coming out as millionaires set for life.

You can't beat something with nothing. Trump is something, even if you don't like him, he answers a call that is being made.

Do you think a brain trust of Romney, McConnell, Jeb-George-George Bush, Rove have the solution?

Cruz is a legitimate option for those who are well meaning and looking to send a message to the sluggish, entitled GOPe.  With Cruz, we can begin to rebuild our Constitutional Republic.  He's not my first choice because I think he has general election vulnerabilities you wouldn't have with a Rubio, Kasich, Walker etc. but he is a legitimate and faithful conservative patriot.

This country would be FAR better off with Mitt Romney or either Bush as POTUS this past four years than the anti-American, anti-freedom scoundrel who has occupied that office in his place.

Trump is not pro-Constitution and legitimate, limited government.  His platform has no viable political prospect. Trump is a choice for those who wish to burn and pillage regardless of the damage.  There's nothing there to take the place of a vibrant Republican Party but a vacuum that the Soros machine and venal louts like Hillary will fill.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2016, 06:10:10 pm by ArneFufkin »

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

  • Technical
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,180
This individual has about 4 contrived phrases/thoughts that he "hot keys" into every discussion.

It's amusing that the most angry, belligerent member of this forum goes around accusing people of being overly emotional.