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Offline sinkspur

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This GOP Is No Party for Optimists
« on: March 16, 2016, 01:09:27 pm »
https://www.commentarymagazine.com/politics-ideas/campaigns-elections/this-gop-is-no-party-for-optimists-rubio/

This GOP Is No Party for Optimists

JONATHAN S. TOBIN / MAR. 15, 2016
 
There was a reason why Democrats feared Marco Rubio as their most formidable possible opponent in 2016. Rubio was a computer model of the ideal Republican presidential candidate as imagined by those conducting the GOP postmortem after the 2012 election. He was an intelligent, young, articulate, Tea Party conservative who was also Hispanic. Just as important, his was an optimistic voice that sought to recreate the positive spirit of Reagan conservatism for the 21st century while also possessing an authoritative grasp of the issues, especially foreign policy. But in the aftermath of a crushing defeat at the hands of Donald Trump in his home state of Florida that brought Rubio’s faltering presidential campaign to an end, it’s easy to see what was wrong with that formulation.

Those lauding Rubio’s graceful and eloquent exit from the campaign are assuring us that we haven’t heard the last of him and given his enormous talent and youth, let’s hope they’re right. Yet those who believe his failure was merely a matter of making the mistake of running in the wrong year aren’t grasping the full significance of what has happened. It was the wrong year for an optimist to be running for the Republican presidential nomination. But it may now also be the wrong party to be running as an optimist. Seen from that perspective, the question may not be so much whether Rubio has a bright political future but whether the Republican Party that emerges from this election is one in which any conservative optimist cut from the same mold as Rubio would have a chance.

Any fair analysis of Rubio’s candidacy must start with the fact that he made a major miscalculation in 2013 by backing a bipartisan comprehensive immigration reform bill. It was a noble concept but it was one that the vast majority of Republicans would never accept. While reform was necessary, conservative opponents of the bill were right when they said President Obama couldn’t be trusted to secure the border. More importantly, illegal immigration emerged as the key issue for grassroots conservatives and wound up transforming Rubio from a conservative insurgent to a pillar of the increasingly unpopular party establishment. That alone may have doomed him in 2016.

Rubio’s decision to run was also a gamble in that it forced him into competition with his former mentor and friend Jeb Bush. Rubio was right to sense that Bush was out of touch with the voters and rusty after having not run for office since 2002. But with both of them in the race, it wound up splitting the support either might have had had they run alone. Worse than that, the ire of Bush and his clan at Rubio’s effrontery in not waiting his turn made the Florida senator the number one object of their attacks. Thus, tens of millions of the enormous campaign war chest that Bush amassed was spent on trashing Rubio.

Rubio might have survived that massive attack, but his meltdown moment in the last debate before the New Hampshire primary was the decisive moment when his presidential hopes were probably definitively sunk. Rubio withered under an attack from Chris Christie and wound up being the subject of parodies. Had he not made that error, he might have finished second and knocked off Bush and John Kasich that night. Instead, Bush lived on for another week undermining Rubio and Kasich was able to stay in until tonight when he won Ohio.

But even if that hadn’t happened, Rubio probably would not have won a single primary that he wound up losing. His strategy was flawed from the start since he failed to concentrate on getting an early win somewhere. Rubio waiting until Florida to win an important state was as foolish as Rudy Giuliani’s similar decision in 2008. Others will also point to his decision to engage in some distasteful gibes at Trump’s expense in the last weeks of his campaign, something for which he correctly apologized.

Yet a flawed strategy, one bad debate moment and the mistake of getting down in the mud with Trump don’t really explain Rubio’s defeat. As hard as it is for his many admirers to admit, Rubio was out of step with the spirit of the party’s voters in 2016. Far from flocking to someone channeling Reagan-like optimism, it was actual a turn off for grass roots Republicans. Nor did they care about his superior knowledge of the issues especially compared with Trump.

What the voters wanted in 2016 was attitude and anger. They wanted a war on the Republican Party leadership. Worse than that, they preferred Trump’s empty rhetoric about American greatness and prejudicial remarks about Mexicans and Muslims to Rubio’s serious-minded approach to the war on Islamist terror. They also wanted populist rhetoric about trade and protectionism that was anathema to an optimistic Reagan conservative like Rubio. Far from disqualifying Trump from the presidency, as perhaps they should have done, the frontrunner’s dog whistles on racism, his outrageous gaffes, and even his belligerent encouragement to violence at his campaign rallies also only solidified support for him.

The truth is, even if Bush had used his money to attack Trump or if Rubio had been smart enough to move into New Hampshire or South Carolina or some early state in an all-out push to win an early state or even if he had made no mistakes in debates, Rubio probably never had a chance to win in a year in which Trump’s fraudulent populism was the key to victory.

If that was all there was to it, Rubio’s supporters could put this defeat down to experience and hope that in four, eight or even 12 years from now, a more seasoned Rubio could hope to triumph. Yet what they need to worry about is whether Trump is merely a passing fancy that will sweep over the GOP and then disappear after November.

But the scale of Trump’s victory in the primaries raises the possibility that what he is doing is something that may fundamentally transform the GOP from a conservative party to a populist one that bears no real resemblance to the “children of Reagan” message that Rubio sought to spread.

Such an outcome is not a certainty. The majority of Republicans may still resist Trump and he may yet be denied the nomination if it comes down to a contested convention this summer in Cleveland, even at the cost of a party schism since the frontrunner’s supporters will never accept such an outcome. Reaganite conservatism is far from dead and its advocates will not be silenced by Trump’s wave of populism. But as Trump keeps rolling up victories on the strength of anger and resentment rather than Rubio’s optimistic vision for a GOP that can attract young people and Hispanics, then it’s fair to ask what the future of the GOP will be with this kind of leadership both in 2016 and perhaps the future. A lot more than Marco Rubio’s hopes for national office rest on the answer to that question.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: This GOP Is No Party for Optimists
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2016, 01:12:19 pm »
Quote
Worse than that, they preferred Trump’s empty rhetoric about American greatness and prejudicial remarks about Mexicans and Muslims to Rubio’s serious-minded approach to the war on Islamist terror.

The problem this year is not the candidates, it's the GOP voters.

That's why some of us are going to walk away from this mess, let it crater in November, then come back to help pick up the pieces after Trumpism is dead.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

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Re: This GOP Is No Party for Optimists
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2016, 01:19:48 pm »
The problem this year is not the candidates, it's the GOP voters.

That's why some of us are going to walk away from this mess, let it crater in November, then come back to help pick up the pieces after Trumpism is dead.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWTh8inHgpQ

 :laugh:

« Last Edit: March 16, 2016, 01:21:27 pm by DCPatriot »
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

Bill Cipher

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Re: This GOP Is No Party for Optimists
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2016, 01:31:52 pm »
Trump has succeeded in splitting up the GOP irretrievably.  When Trump loses to Clinton or Sanders there will be hell to pay, particularly because he will have cost us the Supreme Court for 30-40 years.  Trumpettes will either have to form their own third party or be left with the dead husk of the GOP. 

Offline sinkspur

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Re: This GOP Is No Party for Optimists
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2016, 01:39:21 pm »
Trump has succeeded in splitting up the GOP irretrievably.  When Trump loses to Clinton or Sanders there will be hell to pay, particularly because he will have cost us the Supreme Court for 30-40 years.  Trumpettes will either have to form their own third party or be left with the dead husk of the GOP.

When 37% of voters in every GOP primary state that voted last night indicated they'd seriously consider a third party, yes, the GOP is over.  37% is what Trump has gotten in his primary wins.

Trump cannot change.  He says he will, but he won't. He never has. What people see is what they get with this cretin. There will be more insults, more racism, more bigotry, more goofy trade talk, and incoherent foreign policy.  He has no advisors and will hire no advisors because he takes guidance from no one. He "talks with himself" because he has "a very good brain."

The man is demented, which does not speak well for his followers.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

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Re: This GOP Is No Party for Optimists
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2016, 01:49:45 pm »
When 37% of voters in every GOP primary state that voted last night indicated they'd seriously consider a third party, yes, the GOP is over.  37% is what Trump has gotten in his primary wins.

Trump cannot change.  He says he will, but he won't. He never has. What people see is what they get with this cretin. There will be more insults, more racism, more bigotry, more goofy trade talk, and incoherent foreign policy.  He has no advisors and will hire no advisors because he takes guidance from no one. He "talks with himself" because he has "a very good brain."

The man is demented, which does not speak well for his followers.

Translation: The man does not share my set of morals and values.  The man does not fit my visual of what, in MY mind, a President should look like.


Trump understands the issues completely, when in conference with wonks. 

He's used to analyzing the problem, and getting the people to execute what he wants. 

Whatever it takes.

He's used to winning and crushing people who get in his way.



"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

Bill Cipher

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Re: This GOP Is No Party for Optimists
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2016, 01:54:06 pm »
Translation: The man does not share my set of morals and values.  The man does not fit my visual of what, in MY mind, a President should look like.


Trump understands the issues completely, when in conference with wonks. 

He's used to analyzing the problem, and getting the people to execute what he wants. 

Whatever it takes.

He's used to winning and crushing people who get in his way.





So you're privy to Trump's inner counsel?  You're the confidant in whom he confides everything?  If not, that's simply the breeziest of speculation because you have no idea how his thought processes work nor how he works with advisors nor whether his skill set will translate to the presidency.  Furthermore, based on earlier posts from former employees Trump comes across more as a micromanager than a leader who knows how to delegate.  Micromanagement from the White House never ends well.  See Vietnam.  See most of the Carter administration. 

As far as winning and crushing goes, you are simply confirming all of the fears that have been raised about exactly that issue.  Crushing your political opponents is not consistent with a democratic republican form of government.  It is compatible only with tyrants and banana republics.  The fact that any conservative would support someone whom they believe will crush his political opponents simply puts the lie to their complaints about how Obama has used the IRS and EPA to crush his political opponents.  If the latter was objectionable, then the former must be objectionable as well; otherwise, you're simply an authoritarian who wants his turn to be undemocratic. 
« Last Edit: March 16, 2016, 01:58:58 pm by Bill Cipher »

Offline sinkspur

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Re: This GOP Is No Party for Optimists
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2016, 01:55:23 pm »
Translation: The man does not share my set of morals and values.  The man does not fit my visual of what, in MY mind, a President should look like.


Trump understands the issues completely, when in conference with wonks. 

He's used to analyzing the problem, and getting the people to execute what he wants. 

Whatever it takes.

He's used to winning and crushing people who get in his way.

He understands the issues not at all, DC.  Declaring a trade war would be disastrous, which is why nothing like it has been tried for nearly 90 years. Shutting the door to Muslims would damage valuable efforts to enlist them in the war on terror.  Ordering the military to commit war crimes would result in a mutiny against him.

He's a bigot.  You just refuse to see it. 

I'm beginning not to recognize you.  "Crushing people who get in his way" is not an admirable trait.  But you've given me one more reason not to vote for him if he's the nominee.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

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Re: This GOP Is No Party for Optimists
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2016, 02:00:34 pm »
So you're privy to Trump's inner counsel?  You're the confidant in whom he confides everything?  If not, that's simply the breeziest of speculation because you have no idea how his thought processes work nor how he works with advisors nor whether his skill set will translate to the presidency.  Furthermore, based on earlier posts from former employees Trump comes across more as a micromanager than a leader who knows how to delegate.  Micromanagement from the White House never ends well.  See Vietnam.  See most of the Carter administration.

No.  I listened to one of Larry Kudlow's shows last weekend, and he had two guests...whose names escape me...that actually attended private meetings with Donald Trump and a table of economic and foreign policy wonks.   I'm not making it up.

He said that Trump fully gets it.  He nods his head and succinctly engages in back and forth conversation...is always professional and gracious, etc..

Their main concern is they wonder if, quite frankly, Trump is up for the job.

Not the job of being Commander-in-Chief, but acting like one.

When every uttered word is parsed, he's going to have to be clear and concise.  No more shooting from the hip.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2016, 02:01:48 pm by DCPatriot »
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

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Re: This GOP Is No Party for Optimists
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2016, 02:04:19 pm »
He understands the issues not at all, DC.  Declaring a trade war would be disastrous, which is why nothing like it has been tried for nearly 90 years. Shutting the door to Muslims would damage valuable efforts to enlist them in the war on terror.  Ordering the military to commit war crimes would result in a mutiny against him.

He's a bigot.  You just refuse to see it. 

I'm beginning not to recognize you.  "Crushing people who get in his way" is not an admirable trait.  But you've given me one more reason not to vote for him if he's the nominee.

The "crushing" is merely in his competitive business ventures.   Anybody that goes up against him is always a bridesmaid.

And he's not a bigot and you know it.

Not wanting open borders and wanting to know who's here is the first thing you do if you are supposed to be a sovereign country.
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

Bill Cipher

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Re: This GOP Is No Party for Optimists
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2016, 02:04:35 pm »
No.  I listened to one of Larry Kudlow's shows last weekend, and he had two guests...whose names escape me...that actually attended private meetings with Donald Trump and a table of economic and foreign policy wonks.   I'm not making it up.

He said that Trump fully gets it.  He nods his head and succinctly engages in back and forth conversation...is always professional and gracious, etc..

Their main concern is they wonder if, quite frankly, Trump is up for the job.

Not the job of being Commander-in-Chief, but acting like one.

When every uttered word is parsed, he's going to have to be clear and concise.  No more shooting from the hip.

If he's so with it, why can't he make any coherent statements of policy in public other than throwing around meaningless soundbites?  Why doesn't he even know what the nuclear triad is?  Who in God's name told him that 45% tariffs and trade wars would make America great again?  Even Keynes wasn't that wrong and he was wrong about a lot of things. 

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Re: This GOP Is No Party for Optimists
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2016, 02:05:28 pm »
The "crushing" is merely in his competitive business ventures.   Anybody that goes up against him is always a bridesmaid.

And he's not a bigot and you know it.

Not wanting open borders and wanting to know who's here is the first thing you do if you are supposed to be a sovereign country.

How is it that not wanting open borders is a defining characteristic of sovereignty?

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Re: This GOP Is No Party for Optimists
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2016, 02:07:41 pm »
If he's so with it, why can't he make any coherent statements of policy in public other than throwing around meaningless soundbites?  Why doesn't he even know what the nuclear triad is?  Who in God's name told him that 45% tariffs and trade wars would make America great again?  Even Keynes wasn't that wrong and he was wrong about a lot of things.

Understand exactly where your concerns are.  I have them too.

But he's OUR stallion.  And he's fast.  A proven winner who doesn't suffer fools.

The Democrats and their media will come.  And Trump is the only one that make them sorry.
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

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Re: This GOP Is No Party for Optimists
« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2016, 02:09:57 pm »
How is it that not wanting open borders is a defining characteristic of sovereignty?

If you don't have borders, you don't have a country.

Borders, language and culture.

They've been under attack and we're in the middle of a coup.  And we've got less that six months to save it.
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

Offline sinkspur

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Re: This GOP Is No Party for Optimists
« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2016, 02:16:17 pm »
Understand exactly where your concerns are.  I have them too.

But he's OUR stallion.  And he's fast.  A proven winner who doesn't suffer fools.

The Democrats and their media will come.  And Trump is the only one that make them sorry.

He's YOUR stallion.  I will never pull a lever for this man.

And you just want a schoolyard fight.  This is serious business and Trump treats it like a game.  And so do you.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: This GOP Is No Party for Optimists
« Reply #15 on: March 16, 2016, 02:19:00 pm »
If you don't have borders, you don't have a country.

Borders, language and culture.

They've been under attack and we're in the middle of a coup.  And we've got less that six months to save it.

A coup?  Guys mowing grass are taking your country away from you? 

Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

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Re: This GOP Is No Party for Optimists
« Reply #16 on: March 16, 2016, 02:26:27 pm »
If you don't have borders, you don't have a country.

Borders, language and culture.

They've been under attack and we're in the middle of a coup.  And we've got less that six months to save it.

Sovereignty is much more complicated than that.  Generally speaking, the ability to control a defined geographic area is an aspect of sovereignty, but not a defining characteristic, but it does not have to be exercised in all its possible manifestations and, in particular, does not require that the sovereign actively control who passes across the boundaries of that area.  Look it up. 

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Re: This GOP Is No Party for Optimists
« Reply #17 on: March 16, 2016, 02:26:58 pm »
A coup?  Guys mowing grass are taking your country away from you?

Funny..., back in 2002, I was standing exactly on the hill you're defending right now. 

I've always been the patron saint of the illegal immigrant on the Conservative forums.  So don't come at me from that angle.

Since Barack Obama became POTUS, he's allowed a tsunami of people to walk in here over the Southern border from Mexico.  People from Nicaragua, and El Salvador and Honduras travel through Mexico, but will be arrested if they don't keep walking.

That doesn't address the 24/7 military planes delivering packed planes full of Middle Eastern and African Muslims to our military bases, etc..

When you have 100 Million working age Americans out of the work force sitting on the a$$es because of lack of job opportunities...you can't tell me they're only here to "cut my grass".

They're here for ONLY one reason.

...to replace disenchanted voters who realize what the Democrat party is doing and what they stand for.

« Last Edit: March 16, 2016, 02:28:24 pm by DCPatriot »
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

Offline GAJohnnie

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Re: This GOP Is No Party for Optimists
« Reply #18 on: March 16, 2016, 02:28:55 pm »
Ok then we optimists, who want to fix what is broken rather then deny anything is broken, will leave the GOP to the screaming hysterics in the "Conservative" media.

Result? The Purity Choir can then worry about how to get their purity candidate elected dog catcher in Nome while the adults get busy with the real issues facing the country

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Re: This GOP Is No Party for Optimists
« Reply #19 on: March 16, 2016, 02:29:59 pm »
Understand exactly where your concerns are.  I have them too.

But he's OUR stallion.  And he's fast.  A proven winner who doesn't suffer fools.

The Democrats and their media will come.  And Trump is the only one that make them sorry.

That is really, really scary.  You're not sure his ideas and policies are good, but you're going to back him anyway because you like him personally and because you see him as a powerful protector?  That is almost the very definition of a cult of personality.

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Re: This GOP Is No Party for Optimists
« Reply #20 on: March 16, 2016, 02:31:31 pm »
Sovereignty is much more complicated than that.  Generally speaking, the ability to control a defined geographic area is an aspect of sovereignty, but not a defining characteristic, but it does not have to be exercised in all its possible manifestations and, in particular, does not require that the sovereign actively control who passes across the boundaries of that area.  Look it up.

Okay...I was using the word 'sovereignty' to mean legitimately recognized and working as intended..first priority keeping it's CITIZENS safe.

All characteristics of a sovereign nation.     

Let's not go off on a tangent making the debate about the proper usage of the word.
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

Offline sinkspur

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Re: This GOP Is No Party for Optimists
« Reply #21 on: March 16, 2016, 02:32:12 pm »
Funny..., back in 2002, I was standing exactly on the hill you're defending right now. 

I've always been the patron saint of the illegal immigrant on the Conservative forums.  So don't come at me from that angle.

Since Barack Obama became POTUS, he's allowed a tsunami of people to walk in here over the Southern border from Mexico.  People from Nicaragua, and El Salvador and Honduras travel through Mexico, but will be arrested if they don't keep walking.

That doesn't address the 24/7 military planes delivering packed planes full of Middle Eastern and African Muslims to our military bases, etc..

When you have 100 Million working age Americans out of the work force sitting on the a$$es because of lack of job opportunities...you can't tell me they're only here to "cut my grass".

Obama's deported more illegals than any president in the last 60 years. You can look it up.

I notice Trump has given up on his touchback amnesty plan.  All I hear is a wall. So what's he going to do with the 11 million here?   

They're here to work, DC.   And without some plan to deal with them  that doesn't involve deportation (that ain't happenin') they'll keep working. And, I guess you'll keep griping.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

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Re: This GOP Is No Party for Optimists
« Reply #22 on: March 16, 2016, 02:33:27 pm »
That is really, really scary.  You're not sure his ideas and policies are good, but you're going to back him anyway because you like him personally and because you see him as a powerful protector?  That is almost the very definition of a cult of personality.

No...rather it's more a case of dancing with the one I came with.

I have Fred Astaire.  You have Elaine.
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

Offline GAJohnnie

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Re: This GOP Is No Party for Optimists
« Reply #23 on: March 16, 2016, 02:36:07 pm »
Optimism: Here are the problem here are the solutions, let us get busy.

Denial: There are no problems and you are all a bunch of poopy heads for saying there are problems.

Which of the above do the screaming "Hate Trump Always" commentators sound like?


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Re: This GOP Is No Party for Optimists
« Reply #24 on: March 16, 2016, 02:36:12 pm »
Obama's deported more illegals than any president in the last 60 years. You can look it up.

I notice Trump has given up on his touchback amnesty plan.  All I hear is a wall. So what's he going to do with the 11 million here?   

They're here to work, DC.   And without some plan to deal with them  that doesn't involve deportation (that ain't happenin') they'll keep working. And, I guess you'll keep griping.

Look it up?  Where?  On the internet?  Links to NBC/CBS/Reuters/Associated Press?

The ones that perpetually revise monthly/quarterly employment numbers?  On page 12 B?

Shirley, you can't be serious.    :laugh:
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald