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Offline sinkspur

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Romney versus Trump
« on: March 03, 2016, 08:08:34 pm »
http://douthat.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/03/03/romney-versus-trump/?module=BlogPost-ReadMore&version=Blog%20Main&action=Click&contentCollection=Opinion&pgtype=Blogs&region=Body&_r=0#more-21586

Romney Versus Trump

Ross Douthat

MARCH 3, 2016 2:46 PM March 3, 2016 2:46 pm Comment

The sophisticated take on Mitt Romney’s remarkable broadside against Donald Trump’s policy positions, business acumen and personal morals this morning is that it was an unforced blunder that probably only helps Trump. After all, who more than Romney embodies the establishment that Trump’s followers so despise? Who more than Romney, who lost to Obama in a race most Republicans expected to win, embodies the lack of “winning” that Trump has so skillfully attacked? How can Romney of all people, a scion of wealth and a frequent flip-flopper, be the right person to press the case that Trump is an unprincipled silver-spooner? And didn’t Romney accept Trump’s endorsement just four short years ago?

These are good questions, but let me make a perhaps-unsophisticated counterpoint. We live in a political world where much of the Republican Party spent six months telling itself that it didn’t really need to persuade Trump voters not to vote for Trump, that his candidacy would simply fall apart on his own. Now many of those same geniuses have decided that it’s now too late to persuade voters not to vote for Trump, that they’re beyond the reach of reason, and that any attempt to talk them out of their fascination will just make them angrier and more Trump-besotted.

Which for some of them it no doubt will. But if you think your voters are about to make a catastrophic, even republic-threatening mistake, don’t you have an obligation to actually, at some point in the process, make that case to them? Just for a few weeks, at least, before you give up in dismay?

The idea that it can’t be done, that Trump voters are all locked-in lunatics with no capacity to take in new information, seems like just another version of the elite condescension toward rank and file Republicans that enabled Trump’s rise in the first place. And in that context Romney’s speech was actually an admirable, long-overdue attempt to break with that condescension, to treat primary voters as adults, to actually share with them the wide range of reasons — and Romney covered the waterfront — why Donald Trump does not deserve their trust.

Was he the best person imaginable to give the speech? No, but he might have been the best person available. He was the party’s last nominee for president. He isn’t running for president this time (we think; let’s see where things stand at the convention), so his arguments are less likely to seem flailing and self-interested. He’s still popular with Republicans, and he has a gravitas that both Cruz and Rubio lack; he’s a flip-flopper, but nobody doubts his patriotism; he can drive media attention in a way that, say, Ben Sasse cannot. And many Trump voters, believe it or not, were Romney stalwarts in the 2012 primary. (He isn’t only winning over working class Republicans; there’s a strong “we like that he’s a businessman” element to Trump’s appeal as well.)  In the late fall, months into Trump’s ascendancy, the Boston Globe polled New Hampshire and found that if Romney were in the race he’d be leading Trump by 31 percent to 15 percent. The idea that he’d be automatically tuned out by those same voters now may seem intuitive, but it lacks empirical support.

Again, in an ideal world the Republican Party would have someone more effective than Romney — a successful, popular two-term president, let’s say — available to make the honest broker’s #neverTrump pitch. But we don’t live in that world; what the party has in its post-George W. Bush brokenness is various compromised figures, none of whom are ideal anti-Trumps. And I do think Romney’s speech would have been better — much better, to my mind — if he had acknowledged as much, by admitting his own mistake in accepting Trump’s endorsement four years ago, and casting his intervention now as, in part, an act of penance.

But better what he did offer than the nothing, or the outright capitulation, that many figures associated with Republican politics seem to be offering instead. The idea that Trump can’t be beaten is insane; the idea that he shouldn’t be beaten is immoral; the idea that it isn’t worth even trying to beat him is the lamest thing I’ve ever seen in politics. So good on Romney for trying: All that is necessary for the triumph of Trump, it would seem, is for party men to do nothing — while telling themselves, mournfully, that there just wasn’t anything to be done.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Romney versus Trump
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2016, 08:12:29 pm »
Quote
  The idea that Trump can’t be beaten is insane; the idea that he shouldn’t be beaten is immoral; the idea that it isn’t worth even trying to beat him is the lamest thing I’ve ever seen in politics.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline GAJohnnie

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Re: Romney versus Trump
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2016, 08:20:49 pm »
Trump just absolutely demolished Romney at his rally. Treated him with bemused contempt and laid out all his past dealing with Romney.

Find another dog Hate Trump Always Squad, this one ain't gonna hunt.

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Romney versus Trump
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2016, 08:36:06 pm »
Mitt was a one-shot deal today, while Trump is on the stump daily, and a lot of people still agree with him.

--GOP establishment and apologists wrong on illegal immigration, wrong on sanctuary cities, wrong on non-secure muslim entries, and many other subjects that Trump has raised.

--GOP and independent voters still highly pissed at the entrenched establishment, regardless of what failed establishment candidate Romney says.

--Today on GOPBR I counted several NON Trump supporters, that were personally resentful of Romney's characterization of Trump's supporters being somehow "less than."



"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline EdinVA

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Re: Romney versus Trump
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2016, 08:39:19 pm »
Trump just absolutely demolished Romney at his rally. Treated him with bemused contempt and laid out all his past dealing with Romney.

Find another dog Hate Trump Always Squad, this one ain't gonna hunt.

 :thumbsup:

Offline EdinVA

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Re: Romney versus Trump
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2016, 08:39:52 pm »
Mitt was a one-shot deal today, while Trump is on the stump daily, and a lot of people still agree with him.

--GOP establishment and apologists wrong on illegal immigration, wrong on sanctuary cities, wrong on non-secure muslim entries, and many other subjects that Trump has raised.

--GOP and independent voters still highly pissed at the entrenched establishment, regardless of what failed establishment candidate Romney says.

--Today on GOPBR I counted several NON Trump supporters, that were personally resentful of Romney's characterization of Trump's supporters being somehow "less than."

Great Post TS

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Romney versus Trump
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2016, 08:46:55 pm »
Mitt was a one-shot deal today, while Trump is on the stump daily, and a lot of people still agree with him.

--GOP establishment and apologists wrong on illegal immigration, wrong on sanctuary cities, wrong on non-secure muslim entries, and many other subjects that Trump has raised.

--GOP and independent voters still highly pissed at the entrenched establishment, regardless of what failed establishment candidate Romney says.

--Today on GOPBR I counted several NON Trump supporters, that were personally resentful of Romney's characterization of Trump's supporters being somehow "less than."

Thus far, exits have asked GOP deportation vs path to amnesty Q in 9 states. Deportation won in AL. Lost in NH, SC, AR, GA, OK, TX, TN, VA.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2016, 08:47:22 pm by sinkspur »
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline GAJohnnie

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Re: Romney versus Trump
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2016, 09:43:33 pm »
Great Post TS

Rush Limbaugh 1st caller was a Cruz supporter named Kathy. She was spitting mad about this. This will not hurt Trump a bit.

Offline aligncare

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Re: Romney versus Trump
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2016, 09:56:18 pm »

I fought hard to get Romney elected.

Just ask massadvj, we had knockdown drag out battles during the primary.

And this is how Romney repays me? For all my efforts, all my support, for my contributions to his stupid campaign? To call me gullible?

This is going to backfire big-time on the GOPe.

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Romney versus Trump
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2016, 11:01:33 pm »
Rush Limbaugh 1st caller was a Cruz supporter named Kathy. She was spitting mad about this. This will not hurt Trump a bit.

Bill Handel, an big AM radio host- lawyer in LA, had surprise first and second callers in similar manner.

All these elites, thinking they still guide and manipulate public opinion are getting surprise after surprise.

"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Romney versus Trump
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2016, 11:26:21 pm »
I fought hard to get Romney elected.

Just ask massadvj, we had knockdown drag out battles during the primary.

And this is how Romney repays me? For all my efforts, all my support, for my contributions to his stupid campaign? To call me gullible?

This is going to backfire big-time on the GOPe.

Romney didn't know you were going to go off half-cocked in support of a bigoted demagogue.

It will not backfire.  In fact, the movement to replace Trump is growing..................
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Romney versus Trump
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2016, 11:28:16 pm »
Bill Handel, an big AM radio host- lawyer in LA, had surprise first and second callers in similar manner.

All these elites, thinking they still guide and manipulate public opinion are getting surprise after surprise.

Anecdotal.  The people who are opposing Trump are working and can't call into talk shows.

You mistake 30% of the GOP for the population at large.  More people oppose Trump than support him and that number will grow.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

A-Lert

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Re: Romney versus Trump
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2016, 11:32:26 pm »
Romney didn't know you were going to go off half-cocked in support of a bigoted demagogue.

It will not backfire.  In fact, the movement to replace Trump is growing..................

Are you referring to the candidate that wants to make America great again? Don't you?

Offline Frank Cannon

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Re: Romney versus Trump
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2016, 11:41:58 pm »
I don't like Trump, but rolling out one of the worst GOP Presidential candidates since Bob Dole to attack him is full tilt retarded. Who's next in the GOPe bullpen to go after Donny now? The corpse of Nelson Rockefeller?

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Romney versus Trump
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2016, 11:43:08 pm »
Are you referring to the candidate that wants to make America great again? Don't you?

Trump will make America grate again.  Trump is a blatherskite.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Romney versus Trump
« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2016, 11:43:29 pm »
Anecdotal.  The people who are opposing Trump are working and can't call into talk shows.


Do you work ?? If so when ?? If you work, your employer is getting cheated.

You fire posts here for hours and hours on end, like you are using a gattling gun.
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Romney versus Trump
« Reply #16 on: March 03, 2016, 11:45:13 pm »
I don't like Trump, but rolling out one of the worst GOP Presidential candidates since Bob Dole to attack him is full tilt retarded. Who's next in the GOPe bullpen to go after Donny now? The corpse of Nelson Rockefeller?

Romney was 400,000 votes from beating Obama in four states. He finished at 48%.  Romney's 47% killed him, just like Trump's refusal to disavow the KKK on CNN is Trump's 47%.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Romney versus Trump
« Reply #17 on: March 03, 2016, 11:52:10 pm »
Anybody listen to Trump's stream of consciousness?  Instead of addressing Mitt's concerns about jobs, he's rambling on about a Gucci store on 5th avenue.

And his contention that the BBB gave Trump U an A is just an outright lie:

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2016/02/29/politifact-trumps-claim-that-trump-university-has-an-a-rating-is-false/
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

A-Lert

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Re: Romney versus Trump
« Reply #18 on: March 03, 2016, 11:55:40 pm »
Trump will make America grate again.  Trump is a blatherskite.

From you that is absolutely hilarious. Thanks for the laughs! 

A-Lert

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Re: Romney versus Trump
« Reply #19 on: March 03, 2016, 11:58:50 pm »
Romney was 400,000 votes from beating Obama in four states.

But he couldn't even beat Obama, the organizer.

Offline aligncare

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Re: Romney versus Trump
« Reply #20 on: March 03, 2016, 11:59:27 pm »
From you that is absolutely hilarious. Thanks for the laughs!

You and me are gonna get along just fine. Welcome.   :patriot:

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Romney versus Trump
« Reply #21 on: March 04, 2016, 12:02:13 am »
But he couldn't even beat Obama, the organizer.

Few incumbents lose. You can look it up.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Romney versus Trump
« Reply #22 on: March 04, 2016, 12:02:46 am »
From you that is absolutely hilarious. Thanks for the laughs!

Lame response, but you're new.

Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline flowers

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Re: Romney versus Trump
« Reply #23 on: March 04, 2016, 12:03:52 am »
Bill Handel, an big AM radio host- lawyer in LA, had surprise first and second callers in similar manner.

All these elites, thinking they still guide and manipulate public opinion are getting surprise after surprise.
What did they say? I listen to JK and Tim Conwayjr.  What does Handle think of the donor class? is he still for Hillary?
« Last Edit: March 04, 2016, 12:05:49 am by flowers »


HonestJohn

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Re: Romney versus Trump
« Reply #24 on: March 04, 2016, 12:08:57 am »
Anecdotal.  The people who are opposing Trump are working and can't call into talk shows.

You mistake 30% of the GOP for the population at large.  More people oppose Trump than support him and that number will grow.

It's not even 30-35% of the GOP.  It's 30-35% of those GOP voters who can be bothered to vote in a primary.