Author Topic: Why I'll Gladly Vote for Trump in November, if it Comes to It  (Read 23971 times)

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Offline Free Vulcan

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Re: Why I'll Gladly Vote for Trump in November, if it Comes to It
« Reply #25 on: February 29, 2016, 04:09:47 am »
Aside from it being purely speculative all the things Trump won't get done, his history tells a different story of all the things Trump has gotten done.

No one can force you to google and educate yourself about Trump's many accomplishments; successes that have made him an icon in the public's imagination for 30 years: his name has been scripted into hundreds of TV episodes and mentioned on morning shows for 30 years as a symbol of success.

You're also missing an important aspect of his suitability for the presidency: He's a dynamic type-A and works hard. His work ethic is legendary, his drive to master challenges and new skills and succeed is also an important aspect of his personality.

When we hire Donald Trump, we will get a dynamo, not a dud playing golf his entire presidency, like Obama.

Some conservatives have bought into the caricature of Donald Trump, and allowed themselves to be swayed by the political noise, and by his coarse New York street attitude (which actually endears him with a large swath of folks).

But, all that aside, glad to hear you won't make an unforced error and be one of those conservatives who will let pride stop you from doing the right thing, and work with every fiber of your being to stop the democrats in November.

 :beer: :patriot:

I have no doubt Trump will press his agenda, but his agenda will be populist, not conservative. He's already spouted a number of liberal leaning proposals which certainly aren't Republican goals.

Even so, that point is moot. It's McConnell and Ryan. I'm not sure they will play ball, for no other reason than it's Trump. Which is fine, because they will play ball with Hillary which is a far worse possibility.

Even if they do pass some legislation, we still have the possibility that it might be good legislation, or not. Still better than Hillary.
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Offline sinkspur

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Re: Why I'll Gladly Vote for Trump in November, if it Comes to It
« Reply #26 on: February 29, 2016, 04:16:16 am »
They would not dare oppose someone who has a majority of national votes.  Not someone who can go over their heads straight to the people.

And you think the majority of Americans would vote for Trump when he has a 60% disapproval rating with them?
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Offline aligncare

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Re: Why I'll Gladly Vote for Trump in November, if it Comes to It
« Reply #27 on: February 29, 2016, 04:18:41 am »
I have no doubt Trump will press his agenda, but his agenda will be populist, not conservative. He's already spouted a number of liberal leaning proposals which certainly aren't Republican goals.

Even so, that point is moot. It's McConnell and Ryan. I'm not sure they will play ball, for no other reason than it's Trump. Which is fine, because they will play ball with Hillary which is a far worse possibility.

Even if they do pass some legislation, we still have the possibility that it might be good legislation, or not. Still better than Hillary.

Well I'm no expert on "conservative." All I know is I've voted conservative since 1988 and I've gotten Jack for it. Obama has pushed us to the very edge of socialism. Bernie or Hillary are lurking on the horizon. Just let those facts sink in.

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Re: Why I'll Gladly Vote for Trump in November, if it Comes to It
« Reply #28 on: February 29, 2016, 04:19:04 am »
Aside from it being purely speculative all the things Trump won't get done, his history tells a different story of all the things Trump has gotten done.

No one can force you to google and educate yourself about Trump's many accomplishments; successes that have made him an icon in the public's imagination for 30 years: his name has been scripted into hundreds of TV episodes and mentioned on morning shows for 30 years as a symbol of success.

You're also missing an important aspect of his suitability for the presidency: He's a dynamic type-A and works hard. His work ethic is legendary, his drive to master challenges and new skills and succeed is also an important aspect of his personality.

When we hire Donald Trump, we will get a dynamo, not a dud playing golf his entire presidency, like Obama.

Some conservatives have bought into the caricature of Donald Trump, and allowed themselves to be swayed by the political noise, and by his coarse New York street attitude (which actually endears him with a large swath of folks).

But, all that aside, glad to hear you won't make an unforced error and be one of those conservatives who will let pride stop you from doing the right thing, and work with every fiber of your being to stop the democrats in November.

 :beer: :patriot:

Ahh, I was wondering when Candide would show up.  Running a business is not like being the executive in a tripartite government where you ain't the boss.  When Trump says "you're fired" in his business, the target of his ire is dead meat.  When Trump says "you're fired" to Congress, or to the Supreme Court, he'll get laughed at to his face.

I'm not ignoring his vaunted skill in business, I simply know that it won't be applicable.  And it definitely won't work in this case because the dynamic is completely different.  In a private business deal, both sides are working toward mutual satisfaction and can usually only accomplish that by working together.  The way the Founders set up the government changes that dynamic because sometimes what one side wants is to simply frustrate the other side and prevent it from getting what it wants.  And that is precisely what the Founders wanted to have happen, more often than people appreciate.  The Founders were very afraid of efficient government, and they intentionally built into it the vaunted checks and balances, the purpose of which is to permit one side to frustrate the other.

And that is what I intend to do - use the checks and balances to do the best possible under the circumstances to minimize the stupidity.  Donald Trump is a stupid, callow, grasping opportunist who is as unprincipled as the most milquetoast RINO is spineless.  Hillary Clinton is slimy, evil and corrupt.  I know the only way to frustrate the second is to make sure she never gets into office in the first place.  Since the republican voters are now proving that the Obama voters haven't cornered the market on stupidity, I plan to frustrate the first by making sure he does get into office, because I know that the checks and balances will bring him to heel like a little doggie in a way that they won't bring Clinton to heel, given the current overall political/social context in which we find ourselves.

There's no sense in crying over unforced errors because the time to fix those is long, long gone.  We republicans almost promptly forgot the basic lesson Reagan taught:  that if you think it out, and then explain it in plain English, you can convince a lot of people why traditional republican civil society values are more likely to improve their lives than are those of the socialist left, and to do this in a way that focuses on the positive, on what the good is, and not on the negative, on what the bad is and why it should be suppressed.  Reagan won people over because he was able to do that, to focus on Good morning in America.  Ever since then we've been focusing on what's bad, what's wrong, and why, and how, we intend to stop it, get rid of it, or kill it off.  Trouble is, it can be difficult to explain to the average joe why taking away government entitlements and regulations preventing this or that is going to make their lives better; it's much easier to focus on what you don't like, what you want to get rid of - hate invigorates focus - but that forces you to use negative language, and that's a turn-off.  It's also a lot easier to focus on the past, on what's slipping away, than it is to focus on what's coming and much, much harder to figure out how to deal with what's coming because you can't even really tell what it's going to be when it gets here.

We've continued to take the easy way out for far too long, and as a result we've allowed the democrats to eat our lunch.  Until we can get back to the essential optimism that marked Reagan we will continue to lose.  That is what we most need to emulate about Reagan - his optimism about the future, about what was coming, and his ability to explain why his seemingly counterintuitive values were actually better than the more pleasant-sounding pablum of the democrats - and not any of his particular policies, some of which are no doubt no longer of much relevance (e.g., the Soviet Union is gone - Russia is not its equal - and so is the sort of industrial set-piece war that embodied the Cold War).

So, since I prefer to deal with what is, not pine for the more rational alternative I'd prefer, I try to see how best to make some lemonade out of the lemons.

And just so there's no confusion:  if I didn't think Clinton (or Sanders) was such a danger, I'd vote for the democrat over Trump, in a heartbeat.

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Re: Why I'll Gladly Vote for Trump in November, if it Comes to It
« Reply #29 on: February 29, 2016, 04:22:32 am »
I have no doubt Trump will press his agenda, but his agenda will be populist, not conservative. He's already spouted a number of liberal leaning proposals which certainly aren't Republican goals.

Even so, that point is moot. It's McConnell and Ryan. I'm not sure they will play ball, for no other reason than it's Trump. Which is fine, because they will play ball with Hillary which is a far worse possibility.

Even if they do pass some legislation, we still have the possibility that it might be good legislation, or not. Still better than Hillary.

Exactly.

And, to think about it, this may have been the sort of scenario the Founders feared when they drafted the checks and balances into the Constitution; the need to give each separate branch of the government enough freedom and power that the system would tend toward negative feedback rather than positive feedback, so that the worst of the worst would tend to be frustrated.  Granted it doesn't always work, as we've seen with Obama, but I hope there's still some teeth in the system the Founders set up.

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: Why I'll Gladly Vote for Trump in November, if it Comes to It
« Reply #30 on: February 29, 2016, 09:42:19 am »
I am ready to burn it all down to create a foundation that is strong enough to build a new GOP upon.

I can't vote for Trump.  I could not explain it to my children.

I'll vote GOP down ticket, but how can I vote pro-abortion, pro-big government, anti-trade, anti-immigrant rat/traitor/liberal/9-11 truther/ for President?

I can't.

I also cant pretend I feel welcome here, or understand why my friends are willing to embrace a conman as conservative without considering that they too are racially motivated. 

I don't like to think that.
I don't want to think it...so I will take some time off to reassess my opinion.

I have been very wrong about Trump so far.  I have had enormous faith in the American voter even when they voted for Obama twice.  Tonight I am ready to give up on y'all.

Offline EC

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Re: Why I'll Gladly Vote for Trump in November, if it Comes to It
« Reply #31 on: February 29, 2016, 11:41:59 am »
Your analysis is fair - but you are forgetting something.

The rest of the world doesn't give one tiny damn about Congress. They deal directly with the President, or his designated monkey at State if they absolutely have to. The President is the avatar of the nation - some avatar, eh?
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Re: Why I'll Gladly Vote for Trump in November, if it Comes to It
« Reply #32 on: February 29, 2016, 11:56:06 am »
Exactly how I feel Bill. Trump will be all over the map, don't even know if he'll get anything done, but he's not evil, or has the continued destruction of the US on his agenda, like Hillary.

Hillary is psychopathic, and now unhinged since she bumped her head. Vindictive, vengeful, and she has a long enemies list. Not just high profile people either. Completely power mad and far more dangerous than Obama.
I agree. That she's in bed (literally or figuratively) with the Muslim Brotherhood just makes her even more reprehensible, in my book.

Food for thought, Bill - thanks for posting.
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Offline DCPatriot

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Re: Why I'll Gladly Vote for Trump in November, if it Comes to It
« Reply #33 on: February 29, 2016, 12:42:00 pm »
I am ready to burn it all down to create a foundation that is strong enough to build a new GOP upon.

I can't vote for Trump.  I could not explain it to my children.

I'll vote GOP down ticket, but how can I vote pro-abortion, pro-big government, anti-trade, anti-immigrant rat/traitor/liberal/9-11 truther/ for President?

I can't.

I also cant pretend I feel welcome here, or understand why my friends are willing to embrace a conman as conservative without considering that they too are racially motivated. 

I don't like to think that.
I don't want to think it...so I will take some time off to reassess my opinion.

I have been very wrong about Trump so far.  I have had enormous faith in the American voter even when they voted for Obama twice.  Tonight I am ready to give up on y'all.

So, on my list, I have Sinkspur, jazzhead and now you, Once-Ler....who have publicly declared that they/you can not vote for the eventual Nominee....and/or will fight against Trump in the General.

Et tu, my friend?    **nononono*
« Last Edit: February 29, 2016, 12:42:32 pm by DCPatriot »
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Offline DCPatriot

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Re: Why I'll Gladly Vote for Trump in November, if it Comes to It
« Reply #34 on: February 29, 2016, 12:44:45 pm »
Well I'm no expert on "conservative." All I know is I've voted conservative since 1988 and I've gotten Jack for it. Obama has pushed us to the very edge of socialism. Bernie or Hillary are lurking on the horizon. Just let those facts sink in.

You are the man, Aligncare!   :beer:
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Offline Free Vulcan

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Re: Why I'll Gladly Vote for Trump in November, if it Comes to It
« Reply #35 on: February 29, 2016, 01:07:33 pm »
Well I'm no expert on "conservative." All I know is I've voted conservative since 1988 and I've gotten Jack for it. Obama has pushed us to the very edge of socialism. Bernie or Hillary are lurking on the horizon. Just let those facts sink in.

I guess as long as you understand that Trump has said some very liberal things, things that if he follows through on will result in very liberal policy proposals. Things that are little different than Obama, that will worsen our position just as badly.
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Offline aligncare

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Re: Why I'll Gladly Vote for Trump in November, if it Comes to It
« Reply #36 on: February 29, 2016, 01:16:53 pm »
I guess as long as you understand that Trump has said some very liberal things, things that if he follows through on will result in very liberal policy proposals. Things that are little different than Obama, that will worsen our position just as badly.

We'll have to agree to disagree. I don't see Donald Trump as an existential threat to conservative orthodoxy.

I see Trump as the smartest choice to make for a better America after the disaster that is Barack Hussein Obama.

Cruz and Rubio are just two more politicians (not that there's anything wrong with that).

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Why I'll Gladly Vote for Trump in November, if it Comes to It
« Reply #37 on: February 29, 2016, 01:44:33 pm »
I am ready to burn it all down to create a foundation that is strong enough to build a new GOP upon.

I can't vote for Trump.  I could not explain it to my children.

I'll vote GOP down ticket, but how can I vote pro-abortion, pro-big government, anti-trade, anti-immigrant rat/traitor/liberal/9-11 truther/ for President?

I can't.

I also cant pretend I feel welcome here, or understand why my friends are willing to embrace a conman as conservative without considering that they too are racially motivated. 

I don't like to think that.
I don't want to think it...so I will take some time off to reassess my opinion.

I have been very wrong about Trump so far.  I have had enormous faith in the American voter even when they voted for Obama twice.  Tonight I am ready to give up on y'all.

Agree 100%, Once-Ler.    I think the bottom line is that we have two opportunities to defeat Trumpism.  The window is fast closing on the first opportunity,  and to nominate instead a conservative who can, against a weak Democratic nominee, gain the White House.   The second opportunity is to defeat Trumpism in the general.    That will require us to steel ourselves, as we lose friends and colleagues who have fallen under His spell.   This will require us to do something we never thought we'd have to do in a lifetime of conscientious citizenry -  to vote for an evil candidate to defeat a greater evil.

Some of us will stay home,  or vote for a vanity third party candidate.   Those of us who do - I understand - it's better than working for the Clampdown.   It's better than voting for Trump, and standing with blue finger raised for fascism.    But, to me,  turning one's back on fascism isn't enough.   To comprehend evil and to merely turn away doesn't sit well with me.   I must stand firm in opposition, even it means saying goodbye to forty years of loyalty to, and sweat and toil expended for, this cause of ours.    Kudoes to you and those others of us who will stand in resistance,  even as others who've swallowed the bait will proclaim in large font that folks like us are no longer welcome.   
« Last Edit: February 29, 2016, 01:49:20 pm by Jazzhead »
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Offline aligncare

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Re: Why I'll Gladly Vote for Trump in November, if it Comes to It
« Reply #38 on: February 29, 2016, 01:53:06 pm »

My daddy taught me not to be a sore loser. So, even though somehow I've fallen under the spell of John Kasich I will vote for the eventual GOP nominee – if Kasich isn't the nominee.  :whistle:

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Why I'll Gladly Vote for Trump in November, if it Comes to It
« Reply #39 on: February 29, 2016, 01:53:22 pm »
I don't see Donald Trump as an existential threat to conservative orthodoxy.


Whether he is or isn't, isn't really the point.  I wouldn't be pledging to oppose Trump in the general if he was merely a threat to "conservative orthodoxy".

No, Trump's an existential threat to the nation.
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Offline DCPatriot

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Re: Why I'll Gladly Vote for Trump in November, if it Comes to It
« Reply #40 on: February 29, 2016, 01:55:33 pm »
We'll have to agree to disagree. I don't see Donald Trump as an existential threat to conservative orthodoxy.

I see Trump as the smartest choice to make for a better America after the disaster that is Barack Hussein Obama.

Cruz and Rubio are just two more politicians (not that there's anything wrong with that).

Totally agree, AC.

Right now...after 8 years of the Kenyan... with100 MILLION people of working age out of the workforce, the LAST thing we need is another party hack.

Of course Donald Trump make me cringe, but sometimes in chess...a pawn is just a valuable as a castle or knight.

Trump is 'my' pawn...to get back toward the Promised Land we once were as a nation.

I'm so excited...I swear it just moved.    :shrug:
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Offline aligncare

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Re: Why I'll Gladly Vote for Trump in November, if it Comes to It
« Reply #41 on: February 29, 2016, 01:56:38 pm »
Whether he is or isn't, isn't really the point.  I wouldn't be pledging to oppose Trump in the general if he was merely a threat to "conservative orthodoxy".

No, Trump's an existential threat to the nation.

I give up. You win. Donald Trump is Mussolini reincarnated.

Offline aligncare

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Re: Why I'll Gladly Vote for Trump in November, if it Comes to It
« Reply #42 on: February 29, 2016, 01:59:32 pm »

Jeez, Jazz. And you sound so rational sometimes.

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Why I'll Gladly Vote for Trump in November, if it Comes to It
« Reply #43 on: February 29, 2016, 02:13:20 pm »
They would not dare oppose someone who has a majority of national votes.  Not someone who can go over their heads straight to the people.

I'm not sure what you base that opinion on, but I disagree with you on this point.  They don't care.  Chances of them being voted out are small, and the power they wield in office is massive.

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Why I'll Gladly Vote for Trump in November, if it Comes to It
« Reply #44 on: February 29, 2016, 02:15:52 pm »
I have no doubt Trump will press his agenda, but his agenda will be populist, not conservative. He's already spouted a number of liberal leaning proposals which certainly aren't Republican goals.

Even so, that point is moot. It's McConnell and Ryan. I'm not sure they will play ball, for no other reason than it's Trump. Which is fine, because they will play ball with Hillary which is a far worse possibility.

Even if they do pass some legislation, we still have the possibility that it might be good legislation, or not. Still better than Hillary.

 goopo

Offline Bigun

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Re: Why I'll Gladly Vote for Trump in November, if it Comes to It
« Reply #45 on: February 29, 2016, 02:33:42 pm »
I will never ever cast a vote for Donald Trump! EVER!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline aligncare

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Re: Why I'll Gladly Vote for Trump in November, if it Comes to It
« Reply #46 on: February 29, 2016, 02:36:39 pm »
I will never ever cast a vote for Donald Trump! EVER!

Sen. Jeff Sessions suggests you do otherwise.

Remember, some of us are wise, while some of us are otherwise.

Offline Bigun

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Re: Why I'll Gladly Vote for Trump in November, if it Comes to It
« Reply #47 on: February 29, 2016, 02:38:48 pm »
Sen. Jeff Sessions suggests you do otherwise.

Remember, some of us are wise, while some of us are otherwise.

I WILL Remember that!

Thanks you!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Bigun

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Re: Why I'll Gladly Vote for Trump in November, if it Comes to It
« Reply #48 on: February 29, 2016, 03:01:25 pm »
‘There are none so blind as those who will not see. The most deluded people are those who choose to ignore what they already know’.

Works of Thomas Chalkley, 1713
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline aligncare

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Re: Why I'll Gladly Vote for Trump in November, if it Comes to It
« Reply #49 on: February 29, 2016, 03:15:14 pm »
I WILL Remember that!

Thanks you!

I'm just curious. Are you withdrawing your support of Sen. Sessions, one of our strongest conservative senators on tightening immigration policy?