Author Topic: Trump: ‘I Don’t Like to Have to Ask for Forgiveness’ from God (says, "I am good. I don’t do a lot of things that are bad. " (Read 6960 times)

Carling · « **Reply #50 on:** January 19, 2016, 07:12:19 pm »

Quote from: mountaineer on January 19, 2016, 07:09:18 pm

You weren't "supposed" to be outraged. I posted it just in case people might want to read it. Reactions are optional, expectations minimal.

And, no, his words are not at all typical of Christians.

I was talking about the heated responses to the words in the OP.

I'd hope that Christians all have their own unique relationship with God, and not judge a fellow Christian's relationship with God.

aligncare · « **Reply #51 on:** January 19, 2016, 07:14:29 pm »

Quote from: Jazzhead on January 19, 2016, 06:28:36 pm

Go back and read the opening post, AW. Trump was specifically asked if he wanted to take back a comment - widely reported, if I recall - that he had never asked God for forgiveness. Now he says "rarely", but I believe what he said the first time.

I don't know whether you are Christian, AW, or whether a candidate's relationship with God ought to be important in judging his integrity and person. Yes, that's a matter of individual conscience. But I find it rather astonishing to hear so many Christians uncritically supporting a cat who flatly declares that he's never asked to be forgiven for a transgression (and even now when asked to expand on his earlier statement proudly declares he's all about doing good so forgiveness just never enters into it.)

It may not bother you, but to me it encapsulates the dangerous arrogance of the man (perhaps not so surprising when his acolyte Coulter's practically declared him a messiah.)

Trump is an odd duck, and his appeal to Christians, for whom the acknowledgment and forgiveness of sin and the rejection of pride are such cornerstones of faith, is odder still.

If I were a practicing Jew in America, and I loved my faith traditions, loved my neighbors, why should I care about a candidates' religious beliefs in a country founded on religious liberty? I have religious beliefs that I dare say probably differ from many of my neighbors. I believe in our right in America to practice a faith tradition, but I don't believe it's compulsory for government office. To me it's irrelevant--even if the candidate were wicken or something. (But I draw the line at satanic!)

alicewonders · « **Reply #52 on:** January 19, 2016, 07:22:08 pm »

Quote from: Jazzhead on January 19, 2016, 06:28:36 pm

Go back and read the opening post, AW. Trump was specifically asked if he wanted to take back a comment - widely reported, if I recall - that he had never asked God for forgiveness. Now he says "rarely", but I believe what he said the first time.

I don't know whether you are Christian, AW, or whether a candidate's relationship with God ought to be important in judging his integrity and person. Yes, that's a matter of individual conscience. But I find it rather astonishing to hear so many Christians uncritically supporting a cat who flatly declares that he's never asked to be forgiven for a transgression (and even now when asked to expand on his earlier statement proudly declares he's all about doing good so forgiveness just never enters into it.)

It may not bother you, but to me it encapsulates the dangerous arrogance of the man (perhaps not so surprising when his acolyte Coulter's practically declared him a messiah.)

Trump is an odd duck, and his appeal to Christians, for whom the acknowledgment and forgiveness of sin and the rejection of pride are such cornerstones of faith, is odder still.

I guess we can check you off in the column of "not voting for Trump".

I'm cool with that. I just don't like someone's religion being called into question - I realize some people disagree with that and want to jump into someone's mind, or pick apart their statements to say someone isn't a Christian - or the RIGHT kind of Christian. I'll let God sort that out.

I've said before, I'm not electing a preacher, I'm electing a leader.

mountaineer · « **Reply #53 on:** January 19, 2016, 07:24:21 pm »

Quote from: aligncare on January 19, 2016, 07:14:29 pm

If I were a practicing Jew in America, and I loved my faith traditions, loved my neighbors, why should I care about a candidates' religious beliefs in a country founded on religious liberty? I have religious beliefs that I dare say probably differ from many of my neighbors. I believe in our right in America to practice a faith tradition, but I don't believe it's compulsory for government office. To me it's irrelevant--even if the candidate were wicken or something. (But I draw the line at satanic!)

I generally agree with you, AC, but when we see a person who claims to be one thing but unquestionably is another (Obama comes to mind), we tend to question his honesty, sincerity and character. Maybe it's a pipe dream anymore, but who wouldn't want an honest and sincere person of good character in the Oval Office?

I want a president of good character whose only motivation is the wellbeing of this country and its citizens, regardless of his particular religious affiliation.

aligncare · « **Reply #54 on:** January 19, 2016, 07:30:09 pm »

Quote from: mountaineer on January 19, 2016, 07:24:21 pm

I generally agree with you, AC, but when we see a person who claims to be one thing but unquestionably is another (Obama comes to mind), we tend to question his honesty, sincerity and character. Maybe it's a pipe dream anymore, but who wouldn't want an honest and sincere person of good character in the Oval Office?

I want a president of good character whose only motivation is the wellbeing of this country and its citizens, regardless of his particular religious affiliation.

Couldn't agree more. Well said.

(Of course the devil is in the details as to which candidate best fits that description

)

mountaineer · « **Reply #55 on:** January 21, 2016, 01:20:24 pm »

Video: Allow Donald Trump to Tell You About His Christian Faith
January 20, 2016 By The Federalist Staff

Quote

During a speech aimed at appealing to Christians on Monday, Donald Trump cited a verse from “two Corinthians” in a speech about faith at Liberty University.

When Trump’s citation of 2 Corinthians 3:17 (which is usually referred to as “second Corinthians”) was met with stunned silence from the crowd, he explained that he mentioned the verse because it was about liberty.

“Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty… And here is Liberty University,” he said. “Is that the one you like? I think that’s the one you like, because I loved it.”

Though his reference to the verse wasn’t altogether wrong, his unconventional turn of phrase drew much ire.

His speech at Liberty University wasn’t the first time Trump has talked publicly about the Bible and his faith. In the past, he has explained that his favorability among Evangelical voters shows that he is serious about his Christianity, and when he was asked at the Family Leadership Summit in July if he had ever asked God for forgiveness, Trump described taking communion.

“When I drink my little wine – which is about the only wine I drink – and have my little cracker, I guess that’s a form of asking for forgiveness,” Trump said.

Watch this montage of video footage in which Trump has described his Christian faith: Video at link

As I said, it's not a requirement to me that a candidate be of a particular faith, - but it is important to me that the candidate be sincere in whatever belief system he/she claims, and not just be winging it. That's the problem with Obama, who claims to be a devout Christian but exhibits no knowledge or understanding of what that means.

As a lifelong Presbyterian, I haven't heard of any Presbyterian church that uses real wine for communion. It's just grape juice.

Carling · « **Reply #56 on:** January 21, 2016, 01:44:34 pm »

Quote from: mountaineer on January 21, 2016, 01:20:24 pm

Video: Allow Donald Trump to Tell You About His Christian Faith
January 20, 2016 By The Federalist StaffAs I said, it's not a requirement to me that a candidate be of a particular faith, - but it is important to me that the candidate be sincere in whatever belief system he/she claims, and not just be winging it. That's the problem with Obama, who claims to be a devout Christian but exhibits no knowledge or understanding of what that means.

As a lifelong Presbyterian, I haven't heard of any Presbyterian church that uses real wine for communion. It's just grape juice.

A simple Google church shows many Presbyterian churches that use real wine, and the the rules of the church allow for either. Whether Trump's church uses it or not is another question., of course.

Bigun · « **Reply #57 on:** January 21, 2016, 02:21:04 pm »

libertybele · « **Reply #58 on:** January 21, 2016, 02:38:26 pm »

Quote from: aligncare on January 19, 2016, 07:14:29 pm

If I were a practicing Jew in America, and I loved my faith traditions, loved my neighbors, why should I care about a candidates' religious beliefs in a country founded on religious liberty? I have religious beliefs that I dare say probably differ from many of my neighbors. I believe in our right in America to practice a faith tradition, but I don't believe it's compulsory for government office. To me it's irrelevant--even if the candidate were wicken or something. (But I draw the line at satanic!)

Our country was founded on Christian beliefs and principles. I believe it is very important to elect a president that holds those values. Hussein is a prime example of why we need a president with deep Christian beliefs instead of a president that has demonstrated and promoted anti-Christian values.

musiclady · « **Reply #59 on:** January 21, 2016, 03:14:14 pm »

Quote from: mountaineer on January 21, 2016, 01:20:24 pm

Video: Allow Donald Trump to Tell You About His Christian Faith
January 20, 2016 By The Federalist StaffAs I said, it's not a requirement to me that a candidate be of a particular faith, - but it is important to me that the candidate be sincere in whatever belief system he/she claims, and not just be winging it. That's the problem with Obama, who claims to be a devout Christian but exhibits no knowledge or understanding of what that means.

As a lifelong Presbyterian, I haven't heard of any Presbyterian church that uses real wine for communion. It's just grape juice.

You've put your finger on the problem here. It's not so much that he's not a devout Christian that matters to me, but rather that he is pretending to be, and is not.

It's like everything else he's doing now. He has no core, but is feigning core beliefs. He supported the Dream Act, and is pretending that he's hard core anti-illegal. He supported single payer government health care and now is claiming he didn't. He supports Planned Parenthood, and now is claiming he's pro-life.
He supported the Stimulus act, and said that Obama was doing a good job with the economy, and now denies it.

He's a complete phony. Everything he's saying today, he has opposed in the recent past.

libertybele · « **Reply #60 on:** January 21, 2016, 03:38:41 pm »

Quote from: musiclady on January 21, 2016, 03:14:14 pm

You've put your finger on the problem here. It's not so much that he's not a devout Christian that matters to me, but rather that he is pretending to be, and is not.

It's like everything else he's doing now. He has no core, but is feigning core beliefs. He supported the Dream Act, and is pretending that he's hard core anti-illegal. He supported single payer government health care and now is claiming he didn't. He supports Planned Parenthood, and now is claiming he's pro-life.
He supported the Stimulus act, and said that Obama was doing a good job with the economy, and now denies it.

He's a complete phony. Everything he's saying today, he has opposed in the recent past.

You hit the nail on the head. Donald J. Trump is a complete phony. Perhaps the most important and valid point that you made is he has no core but is feigning core beliefs. I can honestly say, I tried to give Trump a chance and for quite a while he was my second pick, but his stripes have shown through and I now think he will be a disaster as a president.

aligncare · « **Reply #61 on:** January 21, 2016, 04:26:19 pm »

liberty I honestly don't think a phoney would pay off a Good Samaritan's mortgage for helping start his stalled limousine as Trump has done.

In my opinion what you're seeing is Trump playing politics with the best of them in order to win. They all want to win (...they're all politicians, you know. Only a select few are more capable--I didn't say more deserving than others--of winning the big prize)

mountaineer · « **Reply #62 on:** January 21, 2016, 04:41:31 pm »

Quote from: musiclady on January 21, 2016, 03:14:14 pm

It's like everything else he's doing now. He has no core, but is feigning core beliefs.

That's what concerns me. If he just admitted he's not much of a churchgoer and/or isn't really very interested in religion at all, I'd probably be less skeptical and even might appreciate his honesty. As it is, it appears to me that he wants people (especially evangelicals) to think he's "one of them," but his lack of knowledge and experience with the church means he can't fake it very well. It's not exactly that there's a secret handshake or anything, but he doesn't seem to be comfortable with the things that your average churchgoing Presbyterian would know and do. It's like when John Kerry tried to show what a great Boston baseball fan he was by praising "Manny Ortiz."

libertybele · « **Reply #63 on:** January 21, 2016, 05:07:48 pm »

Quote from: aligncare on January 21, 2016, 04:26:19 pm

liberty I honestly don't think a phoney would pay off a Good Samaritan's mortgage for helping start his stalled limousine as Trump has done.

In my opinion what you're seeing is Trump playing with the best of them to win in politics. (...they're all politicians, you know. Only a select few are more capable--I didn't say deserving--than others of winning the big prize)

We need a president who tells the TRUTH; not someone who says something to win in politics. Take the example of Rubio who ran as an anti-amnesty candidate to get elected into the Senate and then turned tail and joined the Gang of Eight, no we don't need a president like that. An even better example are all the promises of Hope and Change that Hussein made; many realize now that they were 'duped' into voting for him. Based on his 'performance' I believe Trump has a whole lot of people 'duped' into believing his rhetoric ... he has nothing to back up what he says.

aligncare · « **Reply #64 on:** January 21, 2016, 05:11:29 pm »

I'm not ignoring a thing. It's just that I have actually listened to the voices of people who I trust who have worked with or have friendships with Donald Trump. I'm very comfortable with who Trump is as a good person and as someone who loves his country and will do the right thing by her.

mountaineer · « **Reply #65 on:** January 21, 2016, 05:17:27 pm »

Quote from: aligncare on January 21, 2016, 05:11:29 pm

I'm not ignoring a thing. It's just that I have actually listened to the voices of people who I trust who have worked with or have friendships with Donald Trump. I'm very comfortable with who Trump is as a good person and as someone who loves his country and will do the right thing by her.

And that's the kind of thing that's important to know, AC. We all know the kind of person Hillary or Obama is when the TV cameras aren't running. Again, I'm not saying the candidate has to be any particular religion (although I draw the line at Islam or some of the more bizarre inventions) - just be who you say you are, even when no one's looking.

musiclady · « **Reply #66 on:** January 21, 2016, 07:30:18 pm »

Quote from: libertybele on January 21, 2016, 03:38:41 pm

You hit the nail on the head. Donald J. Trump is a complete phony. Perhaps the most important and valid point that you made is he has no core but is feigning core beliefs. I can honestly say, I tried to give Trump a chance and for quite a while he was my second pick, but his stripes have shown through and I now think he will be a disaster as a president.

He WILL be a disaster if he wins.

musiclady · « **Reply #67 on:** January 21, 2016, 07:33:54 pm »

Quote from: mountaineer on January 21, 2016, 04:41:31 pm

That's what concerns me. If he just admitted he's not much of a churchgoer and/or isn't really very interested in religion at all, I'd probably be less skeptical and even might appreciate his honesty. As it is, it appears to me that he wants people (especially evangelicals) to think he's "one of them," but his lack of knowledge and experience with the church means he can't fake it very well. It's not exactly that there's a secret handshake or anything, but he doesn't seem to be comfortable with the things that your average churchgoing Presbyterian would know and do. It's like when John Kerry tried to show what a great Boston baseball fan he was by praising "Manny Ortiz."

Or Barack Obama's talking about the Packers and Lambert Field.

And I echo what you've said. It's not critical to me if he doesn't attend church regularly, or isn't evangelical, but when he keeps saying that he is while saying things that prove he hasn't a clue, it's troubling. (Like talking about Two Corinthians instead of second Corinthians at Liberty University when no one anywhere says that).

It's just more proof that he's not an honest person.

And that's a big deal.

Meshuge Mikey · « **Reply #68 on:** January 21, 2016, 10:16:15 pm »

Quote from: Carling on January 19, 2016, 07:12:19 pm

I was talking about the heated responses to the words in the OP.

I'd hope that Christians all have their own unique relationship with God, and not judge a fellow Christian's relationship with God.

saying" I dont Bring God INTO IT....IMPLIES that he does in fact not HAVE a working relationship WITH GOD to begin with as aa matter of fact.

"Ya Im Protestant and a Presbyterian even,. and I go to a Really Big Church.HEY LOOK at MY BIBLE....but God and I don't talk Much.."

theres no Some of us have been cited with DISCERNMENT.....Im using mine right now

Donalds fraudulence KNOWS no Bounds!!

HAPPY2BME · « **Reply #69 on:** January 21, 2016, 10:24:38 pm »

Quote from: aligncare on January 21, 2016, 04:26:19 pm

In my opinion what you're seeing is Trump playing politics with the best of them in order to win. They all want to win (...they're all politicians, you know. Only a select few are more capable--I didn't say more deserving than others--of winning the big prize)

=====================================

Curious.

WHAT is 'the big prize?'

aligncare · « **Reply #70 on:** January 21, 2016, 11:17:48 pm »

Quote from: HAPPY2BME on January 21, 2016, 10:24:38 pm

=====================================

Curious.

WHAT is 'the big prize?'

First the nomination, then the presidency.

Putting aside the fact that I'm pulling for him, most folks would agree Trump is a fierce, determined competitor. I think he's got the moxie to win it all.

He likes people--relates well to them. He's personally gracious to folks he works with. He's brutally honest. He's not your typical high brow Monte Carlo billionaire--more of a blue collar billionaire. It's his roots in Queens.

katzenjammer · « **Reply #71 on:** January 21, 2016, 11:36:42 pm »

Quote from: aligncare on January 21, 2016, 11:17:48 pm

First the nomination, then the presidency.

Putting aside the fact that I'm pulling for him, most folks would agree Trump is a fierce, determined competitor. I think he's got the moxie to win it all.

He likes people--relates well to them. He's personally gracious to folks he works with. He's brutally honest. He's not your typical high brow Monte Carlo billionaire--more of a blue collar billionaire. It's his roots in Queens.

I happened to catch Newt Gingrich on the Hannity Radio show yesterday. I can't find a transcript so I will paraphrase how I remember it. On Don Trump:

Newt: I know Donald Trump and have met with him several times, many times... the guy you see on TV and on the trail is only one small part, a tiny fraction, of the Trump that I know. In person, he is the most humble, down to earth guy you'll ever meet, a genuinely nice guy.

Take it for what it is worth!

aligncare · « **Reply #72 on:** January 22, 2016, 12:00:23 am »

Quote from: katzenjammer on January 21, 2016, 11:36:42 pm

I happened to catch Newt Gingrich on the Hannity Radio show yesterday. I can't find a transcript so I will paraphrase how I remember it. On Don Trump:

Newt: I know Donald Trump and have met with him several times, many times... the guy you see on TV and on the trail is only one small part, a tiny fraction, of the Trump that I know. In person, he is the most humble, down to earth guy you'll ever meet, a genuinely nice guy.

Take it for what it is worth!

You never learn about someone from what they tell you about themselves, rather from what others who know them say about them.