The Supreme Court Has Already Ruled on What is a Natural Born Citizen - Cruz Eligible

[ABX]

For those who are saying that Cruz needs to go ahead and take this to court to get a ruling from SCOTUS, what few know is that this has already gone to SCOTUS in 1971.

It’s a matter of public record that in Rogers v. Bellei, (401 U.S. 815), the Supreme Court affirmed congressional authority to grant citizenship at birth to a person born abroad to an American citizen parent.

The Bellei case was not about where the plaintiff was born; it was about to whom he was born, which was his American citizen mother. Sen. Cruz was born in Canada to an American citizen mother.

The Court made it crystal clear that American citizenship is defined only two ways – by the 14th Amendment and congressional statutes. Put simply, a citizen is either natural born or naturalized. Sen. Cruz was not naturalized, so he is natural born. Period.

Mr. Bellei was born in Italy to an alien father and an American mother. He was bestowed American citizenship at birth, but because he never lived in the U.S. he lost his citizenship because he failed to comply with the residency requirement imposed by § 301(b) of the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952, 8 U.S.C. § 1401(b). He filed suit to prevent the Secretary of State from carrying out and enforcing the residency requirement claiming that it violated due process under the U.S. Constitution. The U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia agreed with Mr. Bellei and ruled that § 301(b) was unconstitutional.

The State Department appealed and the U.S. Supreme Court reversed the lower court ruling holding that the citizenship clause of U.S. Constitutional Amendment XIV did not apply to citizenship by birth abroad to an American parent. Further, that Congress’ imposition under § 301(b) of a condition subsequent to citizenship was not unreasonable, arbitrary, or unlawful.

Sen. Cruz’s mother was born in Wilmington, Del. in 1935 and resided in the United States for 35 years. She met and married Sen. Cruz’s father, a Cuban citizen in the U.S. They temporarily moved to Calgary, Alberta, Canada where Sen. Cruz was born in 1970. The family returned to the U.S. in 1974, where they have resided ever since.

Back to Mr. Bellei who was born in Italy to an American citizen mother and an Italian father. The Court acknowledged that he had acquired citizenship under Italian law and U.S. citizenship at birth under 8 U.S.C. § 1401, which defines those persons who

“shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth.’ Paragraph (7) of 301 (a) includes in that definition a person born abroad ‘of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States’ who has met specified conditions of residence in this country.”

The Court went on to hold that Bellei’s statutory citizenship was lost because of his failure to comply with another condition in the statute, requiring a five-year residency in the U.S. between the ages of 14 and 28. He had resided in Italy and then in England his entire life, never in the U.S.

Again, it wasn’t about where he was born, it was about to whom he was born – his American citizen mother, who could have been on Mars at the time of Cruz’s birth.

The same is true for Sen. Cruz. The statute governing Cruz is: 8 U.S.C. Sec. 1401:

“The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:

g) a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years.”

Neither his mother nor Sen. Cruz has a residency problem, as did Mr. Bellei.

As the Supreme Court made clear, there are only two types of American citizenship – citizens at birth, such as Sen. Cruz, and those who become citizens through the naturalization process, such as did Sen. Cruz’s father in 2005 and Mrs. Trump in 2006.

Sen. Cruz is qualified to become president of the United States under U.S. Constitution Article II, Section 1, Clause IV. It’s settled.

http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jan/13/susan-carleson-should-settle-cruz-eligibility-trum/#.Vpqd0GJy5P1.twitter

[truth_seeker]

No. The case only determined the subject held American citizenship, not natural born citizenship, for the purpose of eligibility to serve as President.

Keep trying, though. But you will not find a case of a foreign born US President.



 

[katzenjammer]

No. The case only determined the subject held American citizenship, not natural born citizenship, for the purpose of eligibility to serve as President.

Keep trying, though. But you will not find a case of a foreign born US President.

You are correct, we discussed Rogers v. Bellei in the main thread last week.  The proper reading of this case does not argue in Mr. Cruz's favor.

[Bigun]

For those who are saying that Cruz needs to go ahead and take this to court to get a ruling from SCOTUS, what few know is that this has already gone to SCOTUS in 1971.

BZZZZZ! Try again!

The SCOTUS has never applied the term "natural born citizen" to any other category than “those born in the country of parents who are citizens thereof”

The Venus, 12 U.S. 8 Cranch 253 253 (1814)

"The natives or indigenes are those born in the country of parents who are citizens."

Minor v. Happersett , 88 U.S. 162 (1875)

"At common law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives or natural-born citizens, "

United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898)

"(A)ll children, born in a country of parents who were its citizens, became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners."

[Right_in_Virginia]

BTTT for important and factual information.

[HAPPY2BME]

In a way, this is healthy.

But the core issue won't be touched:  Citizenship/Amnesty for illegal aliens.

[Right_in_Virginia]

In a way, this is healthy.

But the core issue won't be touched:  Citizenship/Amnesty for illegal aliens.

What?

[HAPPY2BME]

What?

======================================

They are dancing in a field of hand grenades - zeroing in on Cruz's citizenship status while completely ignoring the obviously more critical issue of illegal immigration.

The won't touch it. 

[Right_in_Virginia]

======================================

They are dancing in a field of hand grenades - zeroing in on Cruz's citizenship status while completely ignoring the obviously more critical issue of illegal immigration.

The won't touch it.

Well, I think they are both critical issues. 

Thanks for explaining ...   

[HAPPY2BME]

Well, I think they are both critical issues. 

Thanks for explaining ...   

===============================

Its petty politics.  Trump started it.

No, actually it was Neal Cavuto that popped the cork during the debate.

I smell Rupert Murdoch farting in the wind ..

[Right_in_Virginia]

===============================

Its petty politics.  Trump started it.

I respectfully disagree this is "petty politics".  Eight years ago there was concern that a candidate for POTUS was not born in America.  Today we know for sure that is the case, and "conservatives" want the country to turn a blind eye to it.  I am deeply concerned not only about the slope we are sliding down, but also with the speed. 

As for Trump starting this, again, I respectfully disagree.  Cruz started this.  When he surrendered his Canadian citizenship in 2014 he should have asked for a legal judgment on his eligibility to be POTUS.  I understand why Cruz was afraid to do this--but do we really need such an opportunist (and worse) in the Oval Office?

[HAPPY2BME]

I respectfully disagree this is "petty politics".  Eight years ago there was concern that a candidate for POTUS was not born in America.  Today we know for sure that is the case, and "conservatives" want the country to turn a blind eye to it.  I am deeply concerned not only about the slope we are sliding down, but also with the speed. 

As for Trump starting this, again, I respectfully disagree.  Cruz started this.  When he surrendered his Canadian citizenship in 2014 he should have asked for a legal judgment on his eligibility to be POTUS.  I understand why Cruz was afraid to do this--but do we really need such an opportunist (and worse) in the Oval Office?

============================================

We've already slid down the slope.  You are thinking right, but that path is an impossible process of recovery without the needed leadership, and the support of that leadership.  Two more impossible goals with what we are under now.

By that I mean the progressive have already overcome the Republican Party and the impossible can't be done under that roof.

Even if Trump were elected, he would still be under the same roof.

[libertybele]

I respectfully disagree this is "petty politics".  Eight years ago there was concern that a candidate for POTUS was not born in America.  Today we know for sure that is the case, and "conservatives" want the country to turn a blind eye to it.  I am deeply concerned not only about the slope we are sliding down, but also with the speed. 

As for Trump starting this, again, I respectfully disagree.  Cruz started this.  When he surrendered his Canadian citizenship in 2014 he should have asked for a legal judgment on his eligibility to be POTUS.  I understand why Cruz was afraid to do this--but do we really need such an opportunist (and worse) in the Oval Office?

Politics enters into this scenario; focused and brought up by Trump. You see Cruz as an opportunist? (You might want to research his background or better yet read his book - just sayin').  I see Cruz as our last shot at saving this country. Again, I argue the point that IF being born on U.S. soil is the sole deciding factor, then ANY female terrorist or illegal alien can give birth on U.S. soil and would automatically make that child eligible to be president, but a child born to a U.S. citizen, who was born on U.S. soil in another country is not?  What if the child of a U.S. citizen was born on a vessel at sea outside U.S. territory, or on an aircraft in the air, or in a vehicle registered in the U.S. but at the time of birth in another country?? 

We have three scenario's here ... Cruz; Mother American citizen, but born abroad
                                                Rubio, born in the U.S. but both parents were not citizens
                                                Obama, born in the U.S. (birth certificate produced) , mother was U.S. citizen - father was Muslim

....so...IMHO if this is brought to court ... politics IS going to be the deciding factor.  The justices of the SCOTUS aren't supposed to allow politics into their decision, but they have in the past and very recently.

[Bigun]

Politics enters into this scenario; focused and brought up by Trump. You see Cruz as an opportunist? (You might want to research his background or better yet read his book - just sayin').  I see Cruz as our last shot at saving this country. Again, I argue the point that IF being born on U.S. soil is the sole deciding factor, then ANY female terrorist or illegal alien can give birth on U.S. soil and would automatically make that child eligible to be president, but a child born to a U.S. citizen, who was born on U.S. soil in another country is not?  What if the child of a U.S. citizen was born on a vessel at sea outside U.S. territory, or on an aircraft in the air, or in a vehicle registered in the U.S. but at the time of birth in another country?? 

We have three scenario's here ... Cruz; Mother American citizen, but born abroad
                                                Rubio, born in the U.S. but both parents were not citizens
                                                Obama, born in the U.S. (birth certificate produced) , mother was U.S. citizen - father was Muslim

....so...IMHO if this is brought to court ... politics IS going to be the deciding factor.  The justices of the SCOTUS aren't supposed to allow politics into their decision, but they have in the past and very recently.

The SCOTUS has spoken on the issue several times already and I don't think politics entered into any of those decisions.



The Venus, 12 U.S. 8 Cranch 253 253 (1814)

"The natives or indigenes are those born in the country of parents who are citizens."

Minor v. Happersett , 88 U.S. 162 (1875)

"At common law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives or natural-born citizens, "

United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898)

"(A)ll children, born in a country of parents who were its citizens, became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners."

[Right_in_Virginia]

Politics enters into this scenario; focused and brought up by Trump. You see Cruz as an opportunist?

I find it odd that the Democrats didn't know about Cruz's citizenship "issue".      I guess if Trump had not answered the question asked of him honestly, then the Dimms would have let the issue slide 

Yes, I think Cruz is an opportunist and--well, let's say "disingenuous".   He uses "natural" when he knows the correct word is "naturalized" citizen of the United States.  He, the Constitutional originalist,  knows as a naturalized citizen he has all the standings of a natural citizen--except eligibility to be POTUS.

Cruz's parents were living, voting and raising a family in Canada.  Rafael Sr. traded his Cuban citizenship for Canadian citizenship and held it until 2005.  Cruz Jr. held his Canadian citizenship until 2014, when he realized this could be problematic in a run for the US Presidency.  Substitute Iran for Cuba and Canada and the Pandora's box Cruz is opening becomes clear.   

That Cruz would willingly open this box and set a precedent with far reaching and serious ramifications for the US for a chance to grab the brass ring makes Cruz, the Constitutional conservative, an appalling  opportunist.  That he is knowingly misrepresenting the true nature of his citizenship history and proclaiming this is a settled issue makes opportunist the lesser of his personal deficits.

[aligncare]

No. The case only determined the subject held American citizenship, not natural born citizenship, for the purpose of eligibility to serve as President.

Keep trying, though. But you will not find a case of a foreign born US President.

You are exactly correct.

[aligncare]

Regarding the Cruz as "opportunist" implication. I like Cruz a lot, but he is very ambitious. Trump is also very ambitious. But Trump's an ambitious man with $10 billion and is currently leading a lifestyle that would satisfy the ambitions of countless others on planet earth, including heads of state.

It could be argued Cuz is in a hurry to get (at the public trough) what Trump accumulated in a lifetime of risk and hard work in business. Many of Cruz's senate colleagues and others have commented that Cruz seems to be a man in a hurry.

Trump doesn't need to run for president. He could simply buy one.

Anyway, that's how I see it. Like I said, I love Cruz. But my points regarding the compelling motivation for Cruz's political ambitions compared to Trump's, are defendable.

[libertybele]

The SCOTUS has spoken on the issue several times already and I don't think politics entered into any of those decisions.



The Venus, 12 U.S. 8 Cranch 253 253 (1814)

Minor v. Happersett , 88 U.S. 162 (1875)

United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898)

Thank you Bigun. 

[Sanguine]

This whole discussion is stupid.  Excuse my annoyance and language.  The only reason it's being brought up by Trump is that Trump is afraid of Cruz.  If Trump were not so afraid of Cruz, then he'd be going after Cruz on real issues, not false flags like this.  And the only reason the Trump worshipers cannot admit this is that doing so would be an admission that Trump is not nearly quite so holy as Jesus.

Ted Cruz was born to an American citizen.  That makes him an American citizen at birth and by birth.  The fact that he might have been granted citizenship by some other country or countries because (a) his father was a citizen of another country or (b) the country where his birth physically took place grants citizenship because of geography is utterly irrelevant.  The fact that one country may grant a person citizenship does not mean he cannot be a US citizen at, and by, birth.  If that were true, then the only conclusion would be that he would not be a citizen of any country, which is equally preposterous.

I have held my tongue because I'm new here, but I am really tired of the fact that Trump worshipers cannot seem to deal with reality.  I'm quite happy to grant that Trump may be the nominee, and might be able to win the presidency - anything is possible - even if I don't like the idea.  I find it disappointing that the Trump worshipers cannot accept that Trump may not be the nominee, or may not win the presidency, despite their fondest wishes.

Now I'll apologize again for my annoyance.  I trust you'll forgive me.

No apologies needed.

[aligncare]

I don't worship Trump. I calls 'em as I sees 'em.

I guess it all depends on which horse you pick.

Me, I don't worship horses. I bet on them to win.

[Carling]

Regarding the Cruz as "opportunist" implication. I like Cruz a lot, but he is very ambitious. Trump is also very ambitious. But Trump's an ambitious man with $10 billion and is currently leading a lifestyle that would satisfy the ambitions of countless others on planet earth, including heads of state.

It could be argued Cuz is in a hurry to get (at the public trough) what Trump accumulated in a lifetime of risk and hard work in business. Many of Cruz's senate colleagues and others have commented that Cruz seems to be a man in a hurry.

Trump doesn't need to run for president. He could simply buy one.

Anyway, that's how I see it. Like I said, I love Cruz. But my points regarding the compelling motivation for Cruz's political ambitions compared to Trump's, are defendable.

Excellent points, but Trump suddenly changing his tune on Cruz's eligibility solely because Cruz is now a threat to him frankly makes me disappointed in Trump.  I think this is something that actually has merit in terms of criticizing Trump, as opposed to making up positions he clearly doesn't hold.  He doesn't like to be challenged and has obviously flip-flopped on this issue in order to try and defeat Cruz.  I find this a concern and a negative.

[aligncare]

Excellent points, but Trump suddenly changing his tune on Cruz's eligibility solely because Cruz is now a threat to him frankly makes me disappointed in Trump.  I think this is something that actually has merit in terms of criticizing Trump, as opposed to making up positions he clearly doesn't hold.  He doesn't like to be challenged and has obviously flip-flopped on this issue in order to try and defeat Cruz.  I find this a concern and a negative.

I see your point.

But, if you're trying to sell a product, you would never say to your audience, "buy my product, it's just so so."  You keep touting your own product and slamming your competitor's as inferior.

Trump signaled in Thursday's debate that since Cruz is winning in Iowa he's shifting to an aggressive stance towards Cruz. Cruz is threatening; so Trump is responding by muddying the water. Proves Trump is smart and aggressive.

What did you expect from a competitor like Trump? Raise the white flag, issue a statement two week out from Iowa conceding Cruz is winning? Trump's gonna do what it takes to win.

That character trait is a plus for a president.

[Sanguine]

I see your point.

But, if you're trying to sell a product, you would never say to your audience, "buy my product, it's just so so."  You keep touting your own product and slamming your competitor's as inferior.

Yes, if you're only interested in selling your product.  If you practice honesty and integrity, you don't. 

That character trait is a plus for a president.

You remind me that Trump is appearing more and more like our current president. 

[alicewonders]

This whole discussion is stupid.  Excuse my annoyance and language.  The only reason it's being brought up by Trump is that Trump is afraid of Cruz.  If Trump were not so afraid of Cruz, then he'd be going after Cruz on real issues, not false flags like this.  And the only reason the Trump worshipers cannot admit this is that doing so would be an admission that Trump is not nearly quite so holy as Jesus.

Ted Cruz was born to an American citizen.  That makes him an American citizen at birth and by birth.  The fact that he might have been granted citizenship by some other country or countries because (a) his father was a citizen of another country or (b) the country where his birth physically took place grants citizenship because of geography is utterly irrelevant.  The fact that one country may grant a person citizenship does not mean he cannot be a US citizen at, and by, birth.  If that were true, then the only conclusion would be that he would not be a citizen of any country, which is equally preposterous.

I have held my tongue because I'm new here, but I am really tired of the fact that Trump worshipers cannot seem to deal with reality.  I'm quite happy to grant that Trump may be the nominee, and might be able to win the presidency - anything is possible - even if I don't like the idea.  I find it disappointing that the Trump worshipers cannot accept that Trump may not be the nominee, or may not win the presidency, despite their fondest wishes.

Now I'll apologize again for my annoyance.  I trust you'll forgive me.

I didn't know anyone was saying that Cruz is not an American citizen?

I thought the issue was whether he is a natural citizen.  I'm not a lawyer, so this is totally out of my field. 

The way i see it, Trump is preparing his "short list" for possible VP picks.  Cruz was probably at or near the top of the list.  An intelligent person would certainly vet each potential candidate before choosing one and it's reasonable to think that he saw a looming problem there, seeing as Democrats are already launching lawsuits against several of our candidates.

Carling, I agree that I was disappointed to see Trump attack Cruz - but can any of us say that we would not do that if we were running for president?  It is a competition and it's not "dirty" to use any legal and moral means possible to win.  Trump is ruthless, but that's one of the things we cheer about him - especially when it comes to dealing with ruthless thugs on a global scale.  And I appreciate his honesty at the debate - he's doing it because Cruz is rising in the polls and threatening his lead.  He doesn't lie, he might change his mind - but he could have made up some other excuse.  He told the truth.

We sure don't want any surprises once we have a ticket and I'm sure there's lots of things the Democrats are just sitting on for the right time to bring out.  That's how they win so often, they are ruthless too. 

 - And there's the daily tossing out the term of "Trump Worshipers".

[Lando Lincoln]

I apologized for my outburst.  As far as "Trump worshipers" goes, this forum is drenched in accusations of "Hater" at posters who for whatever reason do not like Trump.  "Hater" is a very loaded word - "hate" crimes anyone - so "worshiper" shouldn't be that shocking.

So much so that I'm going to take a break because I don't like it when I let things get the better of me.  Bye for now.

Tom, I appreciate your commentary. Hope to see it return.