Coulter: Cruz is not a natural born citizen

[ABX]

You may want to read it again yourself.

You can find the $33K from Credit Suisse Group listed here: https://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/contrib.php?cid=N00033085&cycle=2014

This table lists the top donors to this candidate in 2011-2014. The organizations themselves did not donate, rather the money came from the organizations' PACs, their individual members or employees or owners, and those individuals' immediate families. Organization totals include subsidiaries and affiliates.

Actually, what that means is employees of Credit Suisse gave Cruz money, not the bank itself. That's a common misreading of donor info both sides do.  When you donate money, you are required to list your employer which is where that data comes from. It is much ado about nothing as I pointed out above. Anyone from a janitor to the President could have given that money and it would be listed the same and has zero evidence towards the charge in that article that Cruz is somehow in bed with tax evaders.

[Bigun]

Thank you for info. I have said this from the get-go. This will haunt Cruz. The left will never let it go.

The left had better be VERY VERY careful here unless they want of overturn the entire Obama presidency!

[ABX]

It doesn't matter as his alleged father was a British subject at the time of his birth!

That's one of those rabbit trails I think caused a lot of problems with Birthers. Simply put, another country's citizenship laws can't over-ride ours. It doesn't matter how another country claims a citizen or subject, all that matters for this is how ours does. If it did matter, North Korea could simply make a law claiming all children born in the US are also their citizens and invalidate everyone.

That's also important because Canada also imparts birthright citizenship so Cruz was a citizen of both. But because he was a Natural Born Citizen (born a citizen versus naturalized) it doesn't matter what Canada says.

[Bigun]

That's one of those rabbit trails I think caused a lot of problems with Birthers. Simply put, another country's citizenship laws can't over-ride ours. It doesn't matter how another country claims a citizen or subject, all that matters for this is how ours does. If it did matter, North Korea could simply make a law claiming all children born in the US are also their citizens and invalidate everyone.

That's also important because Canada also imparts birthright citizenship so Cruz was a citizen of both. But because he was a Natural Born Citizen (born a citizen versus naturalized) it doesn't matter what Canada says.

You are entitled to your opinions.

[katzenjammer]

Actually, what that means is employees of Credit Suisse gave Cruz money, not the bank itself. That's a common misreading of donor info both sides do.  When you donate money, you are required to list your employer which is where that data comes from. It is much ado about nothing as I pointed out above. Anyone from a janitor to the President could have given that money and it would be listed the same and has zero evidence towards the charge in that article that Cruz is somehow in bed with tax evaders.

That's not the issue that you raised with your lol.

You specifically attempted to distort the content of the article by saying: "The charge is because the donations came through Credit Suisse bank..."  which is blatantly false.  You continued, "That's like saying a candidate helps tax cheats because he got donations through Chase bank and a tax cheat once used Chase."

Lol. You may want to read that one again. The charge is because the donations came through Credit Suisse bank, one of the largest in the world. That's like saying a candidate helps tax cheats because he got donations through Chase bank and a tax cheat once used Chase. That article's is by 'Coach' Collins who has the Coach is Right blog which is way out there in nutter freeper territory.

Now you are attempting to distort the conversation further.  You mocked another poster using a falsehood, you were proven wrong. Own it.

[Bigun]

Anyone who is truly interested in this should read the material at the link below. It will require quite an investment of your time but you will come away MUCH more educated on the issue!

http://www.constitution.org/abus/pres_elig.htm

[EdinVA]

I think this is what Trump is getting at here with Cruz.  Cruz needs to clear this issue up as much as possible right now, before it becomes a distracting issue for Cruz.  You know the left is just sitting on this until they can use it to their advantage.  I don't know what Cruz can do, I'm sure he knows he is OK - but it needs to be confirmed somehow that he is eligible to run for president before the issue becomes the screaming 24/7 headlines that the left will make it be once Cruz wins in Iowa or wherever. 

In that way, Trump is not hurting Cruz - he knows this is coming - it's something that needs to be cleared up now.

I am very comfortable with Cruz as president.
But this is not just about Cruz but for future candidates and real issue is one of loyalty and what tools society uses to vet candidates and weed out disloyal candidates.
I think it is vitally important to get this right as we have, as you all are aware, 10 million +++ illegals who most likely are going to end up with citizenship and their children will be the future presidents/congresspersons/judges, some with unimaginable hidden agenda's, vying for the opportunity to put them into place.

[Sanguine]

I think we are getting a little confused here so I'm going to clear it up a little if I may.

There is no question about whether or not Ted Cruz is a Citizen of the United States.  The question is whether or not he is a 'Natural born Citizen" of the United States.

In the case of Obama there is REAL question as to whether or not Obama is even a citizen much less a "Natural born" citizen.

The Constitution does not define 'Natural born Citizen", so the assumption would be that the founders didn't feel the need to do so. 

[Sanguine]

The left had better be VERY VERY careful here unless they want of overturn the entire Obama presidency!

Where's that big thumbs-up picture?

[Sanguine]

Yes, you and I agree (but with differing analogies, "that ship has sailed" and "the train has long ago left the station!").

But for the record, to me, the question comes down to birthright citizenship (i.e., by virtue of the Constitution itself, without any aid of legislation) versus citizenship by statute. 

I think that most people agree that "natural born citizenship" (regardless of which historical construct on which it is based) has always been viewed as that which is conferred by birthright.  Citizenship via statute (no matter which statute ones wishes to lean upon) is a horse of a different color!

Exactly what I was trying to say, but much more eloquent!

[Bigun]

The Constitution does not define 'Natural born Citizen", so the assumption would be that the founders didn't feel the need to do so.

They didn't as that had already been done for them previously by no less than two renowned authorities available to them at the time.

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/subject_menus/blackstone.asp  http://www.constitution.org/vattel/vattel.htm

Please read the material at the link I provided in an earlier post to this thread.

[EdinVA]

The left had better be VERY VERY careful here unless they want of overturn the entire Obama presidency!

I think this is what they are after.
As soon as obama leaves office, I expect revelations of his true identity and it will set the precedence for future candidates.
I can find no other explanation for the secrecy around his historical information.

[alicewonders]

Where does it say anything, about mother's age in our Constitution?

Sorry, I should have worded that differently.  I'm not a lawyer or a constitutional authority - I was only repeating what I had read elsewhere. 

[Sanguine]

They didn't as that had already been done for them previously by no less than two renowned authorities available to them at the time.

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/subject_menus/blackstone.asp  http://www.constitution.org/vattel/vattel.htm

Please read the material at the link I provided in an earlier post to this thread.

Bigun, I have read Vattel in the past, and it still doesn't negate the point that if the FFs thought it was an important term, they would have defined it.  I'll read your link this evening when I have time to absorb it.

[Right_in_Virginia]

It depends on what the law was when Obama and Cruz were born.  I don't know about Cruz, but Obama's mother wasn't old enough to confer her citizenship at the time because she was only 19, and you had to be 21 at that time to do that. 

Can Cruz' mother confer US citizenship to Ted if at the time he was born she was a Canadian citizen?    (Serious question)

[Sanguine]

Can Cruz' mother confer US citizenship to Ted if at the time he was born she was a Canadian citizen?    (Serious question)

I guess the question would be "was she an American citizen at the time of his birth"?

[Sanguine]

Sorry, I should have worded that differently.  I'm not a lawyer or a constitutional authority - I was only repeating what I had read elsewhere.

You're correct, Alice.  Someone posted here, but in a different thread, the requirements for citizenship when 0 was born.

[ABX]

Can Cruz' mother confer US citizenship to Ted if at the time he was born she was a Canadian citizen?    (Serious question)

As long as she was a US Citizen, yes. Canada allows dual citizenship so in the off chance (that no one has ever claimed) she did apply for Canadian citizenship, she wouldn't have had to revoked her US Citizenship.

[Bigun]

Can Cruz' mother confer US citizenship to Ted if at the time he was born she was a Canadian citizen?    (Serious question)

Yes! Does that make him a "Natural Born Citizen"? No! It does not!

[aligncare]

Can Cruz' mother confer US citizenship to Ted if at the time he was born she was a Canadian citizen?    (Serious question)

That's the linchpin question.

As I understand it, she had just gotten her Canadian citizenship when Ted Cruz was born.

[alicewonders]

You're correct, Alice.  Someone posted here, but in a different thread, the requirements for citizenship when 0 was born.

Thank you Sanguine.  I've read it in other places too. 

[Bigun]

That's the linchpin question.

As I understand it, she had just gotten her Canadian citizenship when Ted Cruz was born.

Sorry but no! Please read http://www.constitution.org/abus/pres_elig.htm!


BLACKSTONE'S COMMENTARIES:


WITH

NOTES OF REFERENCE,

TO

THE CONSTITUTION AND LAWS,

OF THE

FEDERAL GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES;

AND OF THE

COMMONWEALTH OF VIRGINIA.

IN FIVE VOLUMES.

WITH AN APPENDIX TO EACH VOLUME,

CONTAINING

SHORT TRACTS UPON SUCH SUBJECTS AS APPEARED NECESSARY
TO FORM A CONNECTED
VIEW OF THE LAWS OF VIRGINIA,
AS A MEMBER OF THE FEDERAL UNION.

BY ST. GEORGE TUCKER,

PROFESSOR OF LAW, IN THE UNIVERSITY OF WILLIAM AND MARY, AND
ONE OF THE JUDGES OF THE GENERAL COURT IN VIRGINIA.

PHILADELPHIA:

PUBLISHED BY WILLIAM YOUNG BIRCH, AND ABRAHAM SMALL,
NO. 17, SOUTH SECOND-STREET.
ROBERT CARR, PRINTER.

1803.

St. George Tucker, the editor, says this in a footnote:

Persons naturalized according to these acts, are entitled to all the rights of natural born citizens, except, first, that they cannot be elected as representatives in congress until seven years, thereafter. Secondly, nor can they be elected senators of the United States, until nine years thereafter. Thirdly, they are forever incapable of being chosen to the office of president of the United States. Persons naturalized before the adoption of the constitution, it is presumed, have all the capacities of natural born citizens. See C. U. S. Art. 1, 2.

The work from which that is quoted was THE law book in every school of law in the United States for a VERY long time and is still in very wide use to this very day!

[Sanguine]

Sorry but no! Please read http://www.constitution.org/abus/pres_elig.htm!
......

St. George Tucker, the editor, says this in a footnote:

Persons naturalized according to these acts, are entitled to all the rights of natural born citizens, except, first, that they cannot be elected as representatives in congress until seven years, thereafter. Secondly, nor can they be elected senators of the United States, until nine years thereafter. Thirdly, they are forever incapable of being chosen to the office of president of the United States. Persons naturalized before the adoption of the constitution, it is presumed, have all the capacities of natural born citizens. See C. U. S. Art. 1, 2.

The work from which that is quoted was THE law book in every school of law in the United States for a VERY long time and is still in very wide use to this very day!

This is great, Bigun!  That means Cruz is eligible.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Sorry but no! Please read http://www.constitution.org/abus/pres_elig.htm!   

I love ya Bigun--but would you, in one sentence (or two) tell me your point.  Thanks!!!   

[Bigun]

I love ya Bigun--but would you, in one sentence (or two) tell me your point.  Thanks!!!

Read what I quoted in the post above yours!  THAT is my point!