Bill Clinton will crush Donald Trump — with a smile

[alicewonders]

In England, with his military lady driver.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kay_Summersby

Thanks.

[Right_in_Virginia]

One thing about this, Clinton's scandals are old news. Trump's aren't. Don't think for a second the Clinton machine won't go into his constantly trading wives in on new models and who knows what relations he had on the side. If Trump gets the nomination, does anyone thin this election will actually be about immigration or islam? He is handing the Clinton machine the ammo and gladly putting the target where they want.

Total jibberish.   :talkhand:

[musiclady]

Asking for verification here, but wasn't Eisenhower rumored to be unfaithful to Mamie?

Even if the rumors are true, that doesn't negate the truth of what he said.

Integrity matters.

To me it is a sign of the degradation of our culture that it is being argued that it doesn't.

It does.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Even if the rumors are true, that doesn't negate the truth of what he said. 

It does for Ike.

[musiclady]

It does for Ike.

But not the general truth of what he said.

Integrity matters.

[alicewonders]

Even if the rumors are true, that doesn't negate the truth of what he said.

Integrity matters.

To me it is a sign of the degradation of our culture that it is being argued that it doesn't.

It does.

Oh, there's no doubt that it matters musiclady, and I mourn the loss of it every day!  But, in this reality-tv-based, coarse and shallow dirty rag that we call our society - does anyone even know what integrity means anymore?

 

Through my lifetime, at least, good men have put themselves out there - stuck their neck out - to offer to serve their country by running to be the President of the United States.  And many good men have fallen by the wayside, either ill-financed or ill-equipped for the fight.  Many men I have supported (in fact, I am hesitant to endorse anyone early on - they nearly always step out of the race right after I do so) have failed to win the fight. 

"In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell. 

Sometimes, integrity can be measured by one's willingness to tell the truth - and Trump has shone a light on the truth.  Calling out political-correctness and crashing through the gates in his braggadocious way, he is showing the way to win arguments these days with people whose card up their sleeve is the racist card.  You shove that card into their mouth and make them eat it!

 

Like someone said, you want to try to win the battle using the same team as you've been losing with - then Rubio might well be your guy.  If you think the time has come to go bunker-buster on this crap - you might not feel so bad about having to vote for Trump, if the time comes.

[musiclady]

Oh, there's no doubt that it matters musiclady, and I mourn the loss of it every day!  But, in this reality-tv-based, coarse and shallow dirty rag that we call our society - does anyone even know what integrity means anymore?

 

Through my lifetime, at least, good men have put themselves out there - stuck their neck out - to offer to serve their country by running to be the President of the United States.  And many good men have fallen by the wayside, either ill-financed or ill-equipped for the fight.  Many men I have supported (in fact, I am hesitant to endorse anyone early on - they nearly always step out of the race right after I do so) have failed to win the fight. 

"In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell. 

Sometimes, integrity can be measured by one's willingness to tell the truth - and Trump has shone a light on the truth.  Calling out politcal-correctness and crashing through the gates in his braggadocious way, he is showing the way to win arguments these days with people whose card up their sleeve is the racist card.  You shove that card into their mouth and make them eat it!

 

Like someone said, you want to try to win the battle using the same team as you've been losing with - then Rubio might well be your guy.  If you think the time has come to go bunker-buster on this crap - you might not feel so bad about having to vote for Trump, if the time comes.

I'm sorry alice, but your conclusion bears no relationship with the rest of your post.

You mourn the loss of integrity, but then redefine integrity to mean what you feel like it ought to mean based on what Trump is doing?

Integrity isn't that flexible.

And Rubio isn't my guy......

[musiclady]

Character matters.

[Right_in_Virginia]

But not the general truth of what he said.

Integrity matters. 

Would you/did you vote for Ike?

[musiclady]

Would you/did you vote for Ike?

When I was 3??  Gimme a break Right.  You're reaching......... 

[alicewonders]

I'm sorry alice, but your conclusion bears no relationship with the rest of your post.

You mourn the loss of integrity, but then redefine integrity to mean what you feel like it ought to mean based on what Trump is doing?

Integrity isn't that flexible.

And Rubio isn't my guy......

Gosh musiclady, how many movies have you seen where the bad guy takes the bullet in the end - to save the good guy?  People can be a lying con man, but they may still have a shred of integrity inside of them.  You can't always associate ideals like integrity and character to just what you see on the outside.  If I'm not mistaken, Trump is on good terms with his ex-wives and his children from them - so that tends to tell me he has treated them well. 

There are many flawed characters in the Bible as well, that God chose to fulfill his plan.  Handpicked by God.  The Person for the Time.

If we were voting in peaceful and properous times, Donald Trump wouldn't have made it this far.  These are upside-down times.

It is still early, but we are still trending Trump.  Still, things can change on a dime - might as well pop some popcorn!

[musiclady]

Gosh musiclady, how many movies have you seen where the bad guy takes the bullet in the end - to save the good guy?  People can be a lying con man, but they may still have a shred of integrity inside of them.  You can't always associate ideals like integrity and character to just what you see on the outside.  If I'm not mistaken, Trump is on good terms with his ex-wives and his children from them - so that tends to tell me he has treated them well. 

There are many flawed characters in the Bible as well, that God chose to fulfill his plan.  Handpicked by God.  The Person for the Time.

If we were voting in peaceful and properous times, Donald Trump wouldn't have made it this far.  These are upside-down times.

It is still early, but we are still trending Trump.  Still, things can change on a dime - might as well pop some popcorn!

Holy moly!  Are you implying that Trump, the Progressive Democrat adulterer, has been handpicked by God??

Wow..........

[alicewonders]

Holy moly!  Are you implying that Trump, the Progressive Democrat adulterer, has been handpicked by God??

Wow..........

I knew you were going to say that exact same thing!  I knew it!

No, I'm not implying that Trump has been handpicked by God.  I'm trying to make an analogy that sometimes flawed characters do, indeed, save the day. 

 

[musiclady]

I knew you were going to say that exact same thing!  I knew it!

No, I'm not implying that Trump has been handpicked by God.  I'm trying to make an analogy that sometimes flawed characters do, indeed, save the day. 

 

Tell you what, alice.......  when you find a verse of Scripture that supports your claim that integrity doesn't matter, let me know.

Because, like it or not, your argument that Trump's marital dalliances are unimportant implies that you don't think they matter.

(And if you 'knew' what I was going to say in response, perhaps it was because you knew that your statement implied what I interpreted it to mean).

And, btw, when I find myself arguing with two different women on TBR who don't think character matters, it may be time for a break....

 

[aligncare]

Part of the point of the parable of Diogenes is that in society virtue is tied to convention and that convention, like dogma, changes, and so does not represent natural truth.

[andy58-in-nh]

Character matters.

Yes, it does. Good character is evidence of proper virtues, as reflected by honorable behavior.

I do not think it an excessive demand, even at this late hour, that our politicians demonstrate at least some of those qualities.

Americans used to expect more from their public figures, even as they often failed to deliver on their promises, sometimes spectacularly so. But I don't ever recall a politician succeeding owing to their willingness to call their opponent an "idiot" rather than debate with them.

[alicewonders]

Tell you what, alice.......  when you find a verse of Scripture that supports your claim that integrity doesn't matter, let me know.

Because, like it or not, your argument that Trump's marital dalliances are unimportant implies that you don't think they matter.

(And if you 'knew' what I was going to say in response, perhaps it was because you knew that your statement implied what I interpreted it to mean).

And, btw, when I find myself arguing with two different women on TBR who don't think character matters, it may be time for a break....

 

Might be time for a break, those red herrings get pretty heavy to drag after a time.   

[musiclady]

Yes, it does. Good character is evidence of proper virtues, as reflected by honorable behavior.

I do not think it an excessive demand, even at this late hour, that our politicians demonstrate at least some of those qualities.

Americans used to expect more from their public figures, even as they often failed to deliver on their promises, sometimes spectacularly so. But I don't ever recall a politician succeeding owing to their willingness to call their opponent an "idiot" rather than debate with them.

Thank you for this, andy.

I thought I had entered the Twilight Zone here...........

[Bigun]

Asking for verification here, but wasn't Eisenhower rumored to be unfaithful to Mamie?

He was indeed!

[musiclady]

Might be time for a break, those red herrings get pretty heavy to drag after a time.   

So now believing that "Character Matters" is no more than a red herring......

You're reaching into the depths to defend the indefensible, alice.

Incidentally, my opinion about integrity hasn't changed throughout my life in order to support a political candidate.

What was wrong for Bill Clinton and deserving of criticism is also wrong for Donald Trump.

Character matters.

[musiclady]

Yes, it does. Good character is evidence of proper virtues, as reflected by honorable behavior.

I do not think it an excessive demand, even at this late hour, that our politicians demonstrate at least some of those qualities.

Americans used to expect more from their public figures, even as they often failed to deliver on their promises, sometimes spectacularly so. But I don't ever recall a politician succeeding owing to their willingness to call their opponent an "idiot" rather than debate with them.

I guess only dinosaurs like us still care about virtue................

[Bigun]

“It is necessary for every American, with becoming energy to endeavor to stop the dissemination of principles evidently destructive of the cause for which they have bled. It must be the combined virtue of the rulers and of the people to do this, and to rescue and save their civil and religious rights from the outstretched arm of tyranny, which may appear under any mode or form of government.”

 
Mercy Warren, History of the Rise, Progress, and Termination of the American Revolution, 1805

[katzenjammer]

I knew you were going to say that exact same thing!  I knew it!

No, I'm not implying that Trump has been handpicked by God.  I'm trying to make an analogy that sometimes flawed characters do, indeed, save the day. 

 

Hmm.  King David comes to mind.

At various point in time David was guilty of  lying, coveting, adultery, deceiving, stealing, and murder.

He ultimately became the "man after God's own heart."

Point being, is that God will often use flawed vessels (as we all are) to work in unexpected ways.

[musiclady]

Hmm.  King David comes to mind.

At various point in time David was guilty of  lying, coveting, adultery, deceiving, stealing, and murder.

He ultimately became the "man after God's own heart."

Point being, is that God will often use flawed vessels (as we all are) to work in unexpected ways.

But God never, ever says the sin doesn't matter.   If you use Biblical examples of God's using sinful people to lead, you can't ignore the repentance of those leaders, or the negative consequences their sins had on them.

IOW, you can't compare David with Donald and conclude that integrity doesn't matter.....

[mountaineer]

Well said, katz.