What's wrong with Fascism?

[PaleoConPrep]

I'm not asking you to compare Fascism to Liberal democracy. I simply want to know why Fascism has been made to look so bad these days. Calling someone a Fascist these days is like calling them Satan. Yet Socialism is fine. Fascism is not a perfect system, but I hate it when so called "conservatives" destroy another type of conservative. If a Socialist can run in  the Dem Party and be embraced, why can't a Fascist run in the Republican Party and be respected? If the extreme Left is OK, why not the extreme Right? 

[DCPatriot]

Seriously....please stop?

Just stop.....

[alicewonders]

Are you kidding me?

[aligncare]

Who's paying you?

[EC]

If you got to ask a question like this, I pray your iPod never runs out of charge. Or the soothing voice in your ear, saying "Breath in. Breath out." will stop too.

[ABX]

....I hate it when so called "conservatives" destroy another type of conservative. If a Socialist can run in  the Dem Party and be embraced, why can't a Fascist run in the Republican Party and be respected? If the extreme Left is OK, why not the extreme Right?

So many problems, so little time. First of all, fascism is not Conservative in the least. Ayn Rand put it best a long time ago, 'the only thing different between a fascist and a communist is the color of their uniforms' (paraphrased). Fascism is still a centralized collectivism. Where Communism is bottom up (control derived from the commoners) fascism is top down (control derived from the corporate/government alliance). Both create a centrialized control of industry, media, and even down to belief.

The 'left/right' paradigm that often is used to separate communists from fascists (calling the latter 'extreme right') is from 19th century European measurement where they were comparing one form of totalitarian from another. Free market democracies aren't even factored into their description. This is different where extreme right would be considered anarchists (measured on a scale of government/centralized control). In that measure, fascism would be extreme left like communism, just slightly to the right of communism but still far left compared to even most of our left of center politics.

[ABX]

Here is a good example, healthcare.

In Communism, the healthcare system is run by the government, period. Hospitals are owned by the government; doctors, nurses and others are employed by the government. There is no choice.

In Fascism, the healthcare system appears to be somewhat private because it is run by puppet corporations that answer directly to the government. Insurance and payments are handled also through corporations that work closely with the government to ensure there really isn't a choice and you are forced to go through them for any services both by driving out alternatives, but forcing participating in the system. It is still a central controlled system run by the government, they just use middle men to give it the appearance of being in the market. (sound familiar).

Neither option is free market conservative. 

[PaleoConPrep]

You guys misunderstand what I'm  saying when I say Fascism, I don't mean Mussolini style Fascism. When I say Fascism, I mean an ultra-nationalist, socially conservative, authoritarian government with  free-market economics, and a protectionist trade policy. My biggest issue with democracy is that a dumb janitors vote matters as much as a doctors or lawyers. That's pathetic. As we've seen, democracy can be manipulated very easily. I don't think dumb masses know what's good for them. A Republic only works if the population is cultured and educated. Ours isn't.  Go ahead and attack me, but I'd love an authoritarian, right-wing, ultra-nationalist, socially conservative government with free market economics, and a protectionist trade policy  that  STRICTLY BANS Marxism and Liberalism in all forms. We ( conservatives) would be fine in a government like this. I'm not saying this will ever come about. I never even directly supported it. All I'm asking is, if Bernie Sanders isOK why isn't Paul Gottfried?

[ABX]

You guys misunderstand what I'm  saying when I say Fascism, I don't mean Mussolini style Fascism. When I say Fascism, I mean an ultra-nationalist, socially conservative, authoritarian government with  free-market economics, and a protectionist trade policy. My biggest issue with democracy is that a dumb janitors vote matters as much as a doctors or lawyers. That's pathetic. As we've seen, democracy can be manipulated very easily. I don't think dumb masses know what's good for them. A Republic only works if the population is cultured and educated. Ours isn't.  Go ahead and attack me, but I'd love an authoritarian, right-wing, ultra-nationalist, socially conservative government with free market economics, and a protectionist trade policy  that  STRICTLY BANS Marxism and Liberalism in all forms. We ( conservatives) would be fine in a government like this. I'm not saying this will ever come about. I never even directly supported it. All I'm asking is, if Bernie Sanders isOK why isn't Paul Gottfried?

What you described still isn't conservative in the least. All I have to say, especially in the desire for an authoritarian centralized government is be careful what you wish for. Our Constitutional system is exactly opposite of that where it gives the most power to the individual, yes, even the 'dumb janitor' who in our system, deserves every right and opportunity as the erudite, educated bureaucrat.

Also, fascism in any form is not based on free market economics but on markets controlled by a strict, authoritarian government. Very few (outside those on the left who paint everyone on the right as a fascist) would paint Paul Gottfried as a true fascist, at least in his younger days, but lately he has gone to the extreme, even running H. L. Mencken groups and writing gloriously about him - an enemy of representational democracy and free markets, nothing Conservative about him. The problem is that Gottfried took his centralized control and nationalism beliefs so far he started to swing back around to the left.  Using him as a guidepost can get one in trouble because his early writings were very comparable to Goldwater, his latter writings, to Mencken.

[sinkspur]

Go ahead and attack me, but I'd love an authoritarian, right-wing, ultra-nationalist, socially conservative government with free market economics, and a protectionist trade policy  that  STRICTLY BANS Marxism and Liberalism in all forms

It is oxymoronic to think that one can have an authoritarian government with a protectionist trade policy and still have free market economics. 

Of course, you're the one who thinks William F. Buckley was a screaming leftist.  To be so doctrinaire at such a young age seems to be rather boring, if you ask me.

[ABX]

It is oxymoronic to think that one can have an authoritarian government with a protectionist trade policy and still have free market economics. 

Of course, you're the one who thinks William F. Buckley was a screaming leftist.  To be so doctrinaire at such a young age seems to be rather boring, if you ask me.

Throwing the 'neocon' label out so liberally usually is a sign they treat government philosophy more like a hipster fad than really studying it.

[PaleoConPrep]

I never said Buckley was a Leftist. I said he was a NEOCON. You guys think Gottfried is a Leftist which is an idiotic statement. Again my definition of authoritarian is different from your definition. In my view, an authoritarian government STRICTLY enforces the law, without caring about what the masses say. An authoritarian government does not HAVE to control economics.  Let's see where your Constitutional system gets us. The reason I'm asking these sorts of questions is because I can't take another Dem POTUS. If Hillary wins, I will have no choice but to move to Hungary. ( or some Eastern European country)I'm NOT living in a country that
1. Kills babies
2. Accepts gay marriage, and other perversions
3. Taxes its people. To death.
4. Has no sense of nationalism or national identity
5. Admits millions of refugees and commits national suicide
When was the last time Conservatives won anything? 1984. Obama has repeatedly violated your "Constitution" and your "Democratically elected" Congress has done nothing. Why aren't there talks of revolution or secession? The "people" are brain dead idiots. 

[andy58-in-nh]

The problem with Fascism is the same as the problem with communism: they are two sides of the collectivist coin. Under each, your rights as an individual are assumed to be granted by government rather than by God or nature.

Under all variants of collectivism, your liberty may be, and inevitably will be revoked at will, the moment that someone else's need, convenience, preferences, and access to power demands it. And all such systems of governance end up in heaps of dead, smoldering bodies.

Other than that, the 20th Century went swimmingly, didn't it?

[sinkspur]

I never said Buckley was a Leftist. I said he was a NEOCON. You guys think Gottfried is a Leftist which is an idiotic statement. Again my definition of authoritarian is different from your definition. In my view, an authoritarian government STRICTLY enforces the law, without caring about what the masses say. An authoritarian government does not HAVE to control economics.  Let's see where your Constitutional system gets us. The reason I'm asking these sorts of questions is because I can't take another Dem POTUS. If Hillary wins, I will have no choice but to move to Hungary. ( or some Eastern European country)I'm NOT living in a country that
1. Kills babies
2. Accepts gay marriage, and other perversions
3. Taxes its people. To death.
4. Has no sense of nationalism or national identity
5. Admits millions of refugees and commits national suicide
When was the last time Conservatives won anything? 1984. Obama has repeatedly violated your "Constitution" and your "Democratically elected" Congress has done nothing. Why aren't there talks of revolution or secession? The "people" are brain dead idiots.

You're in high school.  You're going to stay right here as long as you are under the control of your parents. No Hungary for you.

The voters of this country are never going to institute the kind of regime you want. I'd start dialing back, as Ronald Reagan did.

Deal with reality.

[musiclady]

Is this guy a liberal plant?  Serious question.................   

I appreciate those of you who answered his "question" thoughtfully and seriously.

And if he IS in HS, he has a whole lotta learning to do before he becomes a conservative.

[sinkspur]

Is this guy a liberal plant?  Serious question.................   

I appreciate those of you who answered his "question" thoughtfully and seriously.

And if he IS in HS, he has a whole lotta learning to do before he becomes a conservative.

That's occurred to me too. 

Anybody who's reading Paul Gottfried in high school is damned weird.

[Bigun]

You guys misunderstand what I'm  saying when I say Fascism, I don't mean Mussolini style Fascism. When I say Fascism, I mean an ultra-nationalist, socially conservative, authoritarian government with  free-market economics, and a protectionist trade policy. My biggest issue with democracy is that a dumb janitors vote matters as much as a doctors or lawyers. That's pathetic. As we've seen, democracy can be manipulated very easily. I don't think dumb masses know what's good for them. A Republic only works if the population is cultured and educated. Ours isn't.  Go ahead and attack me, but I'd love an authoritarian, right-wing, ultra-nationalist, socially conservative government with free market economics, and a protectionist trade policy  that  STRICTLY BANS Marxism and Liberalism in all forms. We ( conservatives) would be fine in a government like this. I'm not saying this will ever come about. I never even directly supported it. All I'm asking is, if Bernie Sanders isOK why isn't Paul Gottfried?

I would suggest that you made a wrong turn somewhere and wound up in a place that will prove not to you liking.

[PzLdr]

First off, define Fascist. You talking corporate fascism, a la Mussolini? Falangist fascism under Franco? Potuguese Fascism under Salazar [the longest lasting Fascist government in Europe? Romanian Fascism under Antonescu, 'soft ' Fascism under the Polish military pre-WW II? Or Nazism under Adolf Hitler.

You have a tendency to throw terms around without fully grasping them. Come back when you've mastered the basics of what you wish to discuss. And discuss them with some specificity. ..Please.

[PaleoConPrep]

I'll say it one more time. This is the type of Fascism I'm talking about
1. Ultra-nationalist
2. Authoritarian ( ruled by a small group of people that STRICTLY enforce the law)
3. Extremely socially conservative
4. Capitalist( a government that has a free-market economy and Protectionist trade policy)
5. Extremely Right wing( a government that TOTALLY crushes the Left in all forms)l
This is not conventional Fascism( I don't agree with Fascist economics) The government would be Fascist in that it would be ultra-nationalist, ruled by a small group of people, and strictly enforce the law.( that would mean giving Leftists the choice of death or exile) You can still have free market economics with an authoritarian government. 

[PaleoConPrep]

Sinkspur
After the 2016 election, I'd be 17( very close to  18) I wouldn't go to Hungary right away. I'd get an undergrad degree, and then a degree from a top law school. Then I'd move to Hungary( or somewhere in Eastern Europe) Hungary actually has a party with views similar to mine. It's called Jobbik. They are not currently the ruling party, but it is very possible they could be in the future. The current ruling  party Fidesz  is pretty Right-wing  anyway. What will you guys do if Hillary wins in 2916, and again in 2020? After Hillary, they'll run Warren and she'll serve 8 years. By 2032, this country could be a Socialist nation. If the masses were so smart, there'd be talk of revolution or secession.

[PzLdr]

I'll say it one more time. This is the type of Fascism I'm talking about
1. Ultra-nationalist
2. Authoritarian ( ruled by a small group of people that STRICTLY enforce the law)
3. Extremely socially conservative
4. Capitalist( a government that has a free-market economy and Protectionist trade policy)
5. Extremely Right wing( a government that TOTALLY crushes the Left in all forms)l
This is not conventional Fascism( I don't agree with Fascist economics) The government would be Fascist in that it would be ultra-nationalist, ruled by a small group of people, and strictly enforce the law.( that would mean giving Leftists the choice of death or exile) You can still have free market economics with an authoritarian government. 

And you're a Rand Paul fan? Give me a break.

[DCPatriot]

And you're a Rand Paul fan? Give me a break.

Have to admit that I'm skeptical of PaleoConPrep's self described bio. 

Don't believe he's on "The Edge of Seventeen".

What better way to besmirch our home, than to have one or more members agree with him regarding ANY FORM of Fascism?

[aligncare]

Sure. The founding fathers sweltered through the summer of 1787 in Philadelphia working, struggling, to design a new fascist government in a nascent United States of America. Yeah, right. I believe that.

[musiclady]

Have to admit that I'm skeptical of PaleoConPrep's self described bio. 

Don't believe he's on "The Edge of Seventeen".

What better way to besmirch our home, than to have one or more members agree with him regarding ANY FORM of Fascism?

Yep.

[DCPatriot]

Yep.

My advice to Paleo......don't quit your day job.   


....unless 'this' is your day job.

We all know there are administration-paid hacks on the forums.  Or as AC eloquently describes them as "Fora".