Author Topic: Trump Doesn’t Represent the Conservative Base By Jonah Goldberg  (Read 2777 times)

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Online Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Trump Doesn’t Represent the Conservative Base By Jonah Goldberg
« Reply #25 on: December 12, 2015, 12:27:43 pm »
Trump doesn't represent the conservative base anymore than he represents the liberal base, the demo base or the gop base. What he represents is the peaceful revolution. A rebellion against all that is entrenched in DC and the mass media. It cuts across traditional lines of politics, race, religion, economic, etc.

 goopo     The icing on this cake is he isn't owned by anyone.  And this is remarkably attractive.

Offline aligncare

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Re: Trump Doesn’t Represent the Conservative Base By Jonah Goldberg
« Reply #26 on: December 12, 2015, 12:36:58 pm »
goopo     The icing on this cake is he isn't owned by anyone.  And this is remarkably attractive.

People don't like Donald Trump primarily because of his personality. But a personality doesn't get the president's job done. Hard work and a soft spot for America, Americans, and American exceptionalism does. Donald Trump is clearly a patriot, and a determined, successful, hard worker. He'll make a good president for the times.

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Trump Doesn’t Represent the Conservative Base By Jonah Goldberg
« Reply #27 on: December 12, 2015, 03:10:58 pm »
People don't like Donald Trump primarily because of his personality. But a personality doesn't get the president's job done. Hard work and a soft spot for America, Americans, and American exceptionalism does. Donald Trump is clearly a patriot, and a determined, successful, hard worker. He'll make a good president for the times.

I don't know about "people", but I am not a fan of Trump's because 1) he has held very progressive, leftist opinions, and some very recently, 2) his record of being a conservative is remarkably thin, 3) he IS an opportunist - which is not a bad thing in business, but can be a disaster in public service.  There are some things about Trump which I like - his refreshing politically-incorrect, factually correct speech for one.  The fact that he is turning the tables on the media and the establishment is fantastic. 

His personality - I like that just fine, as long as he is on our side.  That rough, grating, in-your-face New Yorker style of his is refreshing as long as he's speaking for us. 

Offline massadvj

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Re: Trump Doesn’t Represent the Conservative Base By Jonah Goldberg
« Reply #28 on: December 12, 2015, 03:46:19 pm »
I don't know about "people", but I am not a fan of Trump's because 1) he has held very progressive, leftist opinions, and some very recently, 2) his record of being a conservative is remarkably thin, 3) he IS an opportunist - which is not a bad thing in business, but can be a disaster in public service.  There are some things about Trump which I like - his refreshing politically-incorrect, factually correct speech for one.  The fact that he is turning the tables on the media and the establishment is fantastic. 

His personality - I like that just fine, as long as he is on our side.  That rough, grating, in-your-face New Yorker style of his is refreshing as long as he's speaking for us.

 goopo

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Re: Trump Doesn’t Represent the Conservative Base By Jonah Goldberg
« Reply #29 on: December 12, 2015, 03:49:14 pm »
I don't know about "people", but I am not a fan of Trump's because 1) he has held very progressive, leftist opinions, and some very recently, 2) his record of being a conservative is remarkably thin, 3) he IS an opportunist - which is not a bad thing in business, but can be a disaster in public service.  There are some things about Trump which I like - his refreshing politically-incorrect, factually correct speech for one.  The fact that he is turning the tables on the media and the establishment is fantastic. 

His personality - I like that just fine, as long as he is on our side.  That rough, grating, in-your-face New Yorker style of his is refreshing as long as he's speaking for us.

EGGS ACKLEY!!!  :patriot:
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline aligncare

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Re: Trump Doesn’t Represent the Conservative Base By Jonah Goldberg
« Reply #30 on: December 12, 2015, 04:00:10 pm »
I don't know about "people", but I am not a fan of Trump's because 1) he has held very progressive, leftist opinions, and some very recently, 2) his record of being a conservative is remarkably thin, 3) he IS an opportunist - which is not a bad thing in business, but can be a disaster in public service.  There are some things about Trump which I like - his refreshing politically-incorrect, factually correct speech for one.  The fact that he is turning the tables on the media and the establishment is fantastic. 

His personality - I like that just fine, as long as he is on our side.  That rough, grating, in-your-face New Yorker style of his is refreshing as long as he's speaking for us.

I love Ted Cruz, but in my opinion he will not win the nomination, nor will Rubio. And, neither can defeat an endemic, left-wing, biased media helping/running cover/attacking for their candidate, Hillary Clinton to win the general election.

Trump brings that to the table. He's proven he can beat the media.

Heck, he's proven he can -probably- beat the GOPe!
« Last Edit: December 12, 2015, 04:08:28 pm by aligncare »

Online Bigun

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Re: Trump Doesn’t Represent the Conservative Base By Jonah Goldberg
« Reply #31 on: December 12, 2015, 04:04:22 pm »
I love Ted Cruz, but in my opinion he will not win the nomination, nor will Rubio. And, neither can defeat an endemic, left-wing, biased media helping/running cover/attacking for their candidate, Hillary Clinton to win the general election.

Trump brings that to the table. He's proven he can beat the media.

As I have previously said many times, I truly appreciate what Donald Trump has done for us this election cycle! But not nearly enough to vote for him as our presidential nominee!

Let's see if he's REALLY on our side first!


"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Trump Doesn’t Represent the Conservative Base By Jonah Goldberg
« Reply #32 on: December 12, 2015, 04:20:56 pm »
As I have previously said many times, I truly appreciate what Donald Trump has done for us this election cycle! But not nearly enough to vote for him as our presidential nominee!

Let's see if he's REALLY on our side first!

 :beer:

Offline aligncare

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Re: Trump Doesn’t Represent the Conservative Base By Jonah Goldberg
« Reply #33 on: December 12, 2015, 04:31:14 pm »
:beer:

Not really sure what you meant by this but, what makes Trump an opportunist? What makes him any different from Ted Cruz or anybody who decides to run for office? In context of running for president of United States, what is the definition of an opportunist?

Online Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Trump Doesn’t Represent the Conservative Base By Jonah Goldberg
« Reply #34 on: December 12, 2015, 04:34:23 pm »
an opportunist - which is not a bad thing in business, but can be a disaster in public service. 

Are there politicians today who are not opportunistic?  You know, the kind sacrificing personal time and treasure solely out of the desire to serve the public?  Most, if not all, today have chosen politics as their profession-- it is their business.  So don't we need to hold them to the same "opportunist' evaluation?

The only exception I see to this is Donald Trump.  It would appear he is the only one who doesn't need the political spotlight to be known, successful, appreciated and respected. Politics has not been his career.  He is also the only one risking his private treasure and not that of strangers and manipulators.   I think this is shocking and confusing to both the political establishment and political junkies alike.

Interesting times, indeed. 


Offline katzenjammer

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Re: Trump Doesn’t Represent the Conservative Base By Jonah Goldberg
« Reply #35 on: December 12, 2015, 04:35:35 pm »
As I have previously said many times, I truly appreciate what Donald Trump has done for us this election cycle! But not nearly enough to vote for him as our presidential nominee!

Let's see if he's REALLY on our side first!

Bigun, I have an honest and simple question for you, how will we do that?

Granted, he is making it very difficult for us to determine the answer to your question using our usual methods.  He is not running for mayor of NYC, Governor of NY, or Senator from NY.  Had he done that over time, they our usual methods of examining his record in public office could be applied.  Rather he is grabbing for the brass ring in his first shot out of the box.

I made an attempt at describing the only two ways that I can think of:
1.  Examining his non-governmental executive record,
2.  Examining his policy pronouncements (which is very difficult owing to his 'style' and undisciplined campaign speech),

in my response to EC in the http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,188235.msg748764.html#msg748764 thread.


One other tool that I would throw out into the mix, are his formal policy statements that have been published throughout the campaign, found here: Positions.  I must say that it find it quite queer that with all of the threads about Trump that suck all of the air out of this forum, all day and all night, for the past several months, none of these documents are ever discussed!  To be as kind as I can be, that fact contributes to viewing the bulk of all of this "discussion" as a ridiculous and colossal waste of time.


Offline katzenjammer

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Re: Trump Doesn’t Represent the Conservative Base By Jonah Goldberg
« Reply #36 on: December 12, 2015, 04:39:26 pm »
Not really sure what you meant by this but, what makes Trump an opportunist? What makes him any different from Ted Cruz or anybody who decides to run for office? In context of running for president of United States, what is the definition of an opportunist?

You are correct, every single one of them is an opportunist; and have been for their entire adult lives (otherwise we wouldn't know their names and they wouldn't be in the race!).

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Re: Trump Doesn’t Represent the Conservative Base By Jonah Goldberg
« Reply #37 on: December 12, 2015, 04:40:09 pm »
Bigun, I have an honest and simple question for you, how will we do that?

Granted, he is making it very difficult for us to determine the answer to your question using our usual methods.  He is not running for mayor of NYC, Governor of NY, or Senator from NY.  Had he done that over time, they our usual methods of examining his record in public office could be applied.  Rather he is grabbing for the brass ring in his first shot out of the box.

I made an attempt at describing the only two ways that I can think of:
1.  Examining his non-governmental executive record,
2.  Examining his policy pronouncements (which is very difficult owing to his 'style' and undisciplined campaign speech),

in my response to EC in the http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,188235.msg748764.html#msg748764 thread.


One other tool that I would throw out into the mix, are his formal policy statements that have been published throughout the campaign, found here: Positions.  I must say that it find it quite queer that with all of the threads about Trump that suck all of the air out of this forum, all day and all night, for the past several months, none of these documents are ever discussed!  To be as kind as I can be, that fact contributes to viewing the bulk of all of this "discussion" as a ridiculous and colossal waste of time.

Well, whose idea was it to place them in the "Members Only" Category?     :whistle:

Putting them there in the first place smacks of censorship, IMO.  Was it because it was thought any discussion would get bloody?

"Uh....here's everything Trump says he stands for...but we need to hide it from the public-at-large".....yeah, that's the ticket.    :laugh:
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Offline katzenjammer

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Re: Trump Doesn’t Represent the Conservative Base By Jonah Goldberg
« Reply #38 on: December 12, 2015, 04:40:27 pm »
Are there politicians today who are not opportunistic?  You know, the kind sacrificing personal time and treasure solely out of the desire to serve the public?  Most, if not all, today have chosen politics as their profession-- it is their business.  So don't we need to hold them to the same "opportunist' evaluation?

The only exception I see to this is Donald Trump.  It would appear he is the only one who doesn't need the political spotlight to be known, successful, appreciated and respected. Politics has not been his career.  He is also the only one risking his private treasure and not that of strangers and manipulators.   I think this is shocking and confusing to both the political establishment and political junkies alike.

Interesting times, indeed.

Well stated, RiV!

Offline aligncare

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Re: Trump Doesn’t Represent the Conservative Base By Jonah Goldberg
« Reply #39 on: December 12, 2015, 04:40:31 pm »
Bigun, I have an honest and simple question for you, how will we do that?

Granted, he is making it very difficult for us to determine the answer to your question using our usual methods.  He is not running for mayor of NYC, Governor of NY, or Senator from NY.  Had he done that over time, they our usual methods of examining his record in public office could be applied.  Rather he is grabbing for the brass ring in his first shot out of the box.

I made an attempt at describing the only two ways that I can think of:
1.  Examining his non-governmental executive record,
2.  Examining his policy pronouncements (which is very difficult owing to his 'style' and undisciplined campaign speech),

in my response to EC in the http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,188235.msg748764.html#msg748764 thread.


One other tool that I would throw out into the mix, are his formal policy statements that have been published throughout the campaign, found here: Positions.  I must say that it find it quite queer that with all of the threads about Trump that suck all of the air out of this forum, all day and all night, for the past several months, none of these documents are ever discussed!  To be as kind as I can be, that fact contributes to viewing the bulk of all of this "discussion" as a ridiculous and colossal waste of time.

I brought up many of Trump's policy position papers. People simply dismiss them out of hand or say he's lying, etc.

Most of politics is about obfuscating your opponent's strengths.

Online Bigun

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Re: Trump Doesn’t Represent the Conservative Base By Jonah Goldberg
« Reply #40 on: December 12, 2015, 04:42:23 pm »
Bigun, I have an honest and simple question for you, how will we do that?

Granted, he is making it very difficult for us to determine the answer to your question using our usual methods.  He is not running for mayor of NYC, Governor of NY, or Senator from NY.  Had he done that over time, they our usual methods of examining his record in public office could be applied.  Rather he is grabbing for the brass ring in his first shot out of the box.

I made an attempt at describing the only two ways that I can think of:
1.  Examining his non-governmental executive record,
2.  Examining his policy pronouncements (which is very difficult owing to his 'style' and undisciplined campaign speech),

in my response to EC in the http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,188235.msg748764.html#msg748764 thread.


One other tool that I would throw out into the mix, are his formal policy statements that have been published throughout the campaign, found here: Positions.  I must say that it find it quite queer that with all of the threads about Trump that suck all of the air out of this forum, all day and all night, for the past several months, none of these documents are ever discussed!  To be as kind as I can be, that fact contributes to viewing the bulk of all of this "discussion" as a ridiculous and colossal waste of time.

Let's see how he reacts to losing in Iowa for starters. 

Exactly NO votes have as yet been cast!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline katzenjammer

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Re: Trump Doesn’t Represent the Conservative Base By Jonah Goldberg
« Reply #41 on: December 12, 2015, 04:42:35 pm »
Well, whose idea was it to place them in the "Members Only" Category?     :whistle:

Putting them there in the first place smacks of censorship, IMO.  Was it because it was thought any discussion would get bloody?

"Uh....here's everything Trump says he stands for...but we need to hide it from the public-at-large".....yeah, that's the ticket.    :laugh:

Not sure what you mean, DC, they are in the public section of his campaign website (Positions), accessible to anyone with a browser and internet connection? 

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Re: Trump Doesn’t Represent the Conservative Base By Jonah Goldberg
« Reply #42 on: December 12, 2015, 04:44:21 pm »
Bigun, I have an honest and simple question for you, how will we do that?

Granted, he is making it very difficult for us to determine the answer to your question using our usual methods.  He is not running for mayor of NYC, Governor of NY, or Senator from NY.  Had he done that over time, they our usual methods of examining his record in public office could be applied.  Rather he is grabbing for the brass ring in his first shot out of the box.

I made an attempt at describing the only two ways that I can think of:
1.  Examining his non-governmental executive record,
2.  Examining his policy pronouncements (which is very difficult owing to his 'style' and undisciplined campaign speech),

in my response to EC in the http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,188235.msg748764.html#msg748764 thread.


One other tool that I would throw out into the mix, are his formal policy statements that have been published throughout the campaign, found here: Positions.  I must say that it find it quite queer that with all of the threads about Trump that suck all of the air out of this forum, all day and all night, for the past several months, none of these documents are ever discussed!  To be as kind as I can be, that fact contributes to viewing the bulk of all of this "discussion" as a ridiculous and colossal waste of time.

Good post.  I think some of it is that Trump really is just sucking the oxygen out of the room - he is in the news.  I'm sure he is loving that too!  It is fascinating to watch.

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We told you Trump would win - bigly!

Offline GourmetDan

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Re: Trump Doesn’t Represent the Conservative Base By Jonah Goldberg
« Reply #43 on: December 12, 2015, 04:44:59 pm »
Bigun, I have an honest and simple question for you, how will we do that?

Granted, he is making it very difficult for us to determine the answer to your question using our usual methods.  He is not running for mayor of NYC, Governor of NY, or Senator from NY.  Had he done that over time, they our usual methods of examining his record in public office could be applied.  Rather he is grabbing for the brass ring in his first shot out of the box.

Look at it this way... if Trump wins and doesn't follow through... impeaching him should be a piece of cake...    :silly:


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Offline katzenjammer

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Re: Trump Doesn’t Represent the Conservative Base By Jonah Goldberg
« Reply #44 on: December 12, 2015, 04:47:09 pm »
I brought up many of Trump's policy position papers. People simply dismiss them out of hand or say he's lying, etc.

Most of politics is about obfuscating your opponent's strengths.

I am sure that you did, AC!  I was using hyperbole when I said "never," but it wasn't much hyperbole when I see page after page clogging this forum with nothing more than the braindead garbage that is spewed on Twitter, and the like, 24x7.  I rarely bother to post in any of these threads because their content is more akin to baboons in a zoo flinging their own excrement back and forth, than it is a reasoned and thoughtful political discussion.

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Re: Trump Doesn’t Represent the Conservative Base By Jonah Goldberg
« Reply #45 on: December 12, 2015, 04:47:42 pm »
Not sure what you mean, DC, they are in the public section of his campaign website (Positions), accessible to anyone with a browser and internet connection?

I'm sorry.

I was referring to a brand new member named "Honest John", who shows up here on December 10th and posts Trump's policy positions, in Members Only.

Maybe I'm having a senior moment here....   :laugh:
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Offline katzenjammer

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Re: Trump Doesn’t Represent the Conservative Base By Jonah Goldberg
« Reply #46 on: December 12, 2015, 04:47:54 pm »
Look at it this way... if Trump wins and doesn't follow through... impeaching him should be a piece of cake...    :silly:

 :silly:

Offline aligncare

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Re: Trump Doesn’t Represent the Conservative Base By Jonah Goldberg
« Reply #47 on: December 12, 2015, 04:48:51 pm »
Look at it this way... if Trump wins and doesn't follow through... impeaching him should be a piece of cake...    :silly:

I have no doubt Donald Trump will win nomination and election. And I would suggest that any thoughts of impeaching him are both premature and doomed to fail.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2015, 05:00:22 pm by aligncare »

Offline katzenjammer

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Re: Trump Doesn’t Represent the Conservative Base By Jonah Goldberg
« Reply #48 on: December 12, 2015, 04:49:47 pm »
I'm sorry.

I was referring to a brand new member named "Honest John", who shows up here on December 10th and posts Trump's policy positions, in Members Only.

Maybe I'm having a senior moment here....   :laugh:

Oh, OK, that dreck.  Those 4 threads should have been sent to /dev/null as soon as they were posted.   :silly:

Offline alicewonders

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Re: Trump Doesn’t Represent the Conservative Base By Jonah Goldberg
« Reply #49 on: December 12, 2015, 04:51:10 pm »
I'm sorry.

I was referring to a brand new member named "Honest John", who shows up here on December 10th and posts Trump's policy positions, in Members Only.

Maybe I'm having a senior moment here....   :laugh:

That was pretty brazen, wasn't it?  Not your typical "new member" behaviour.

I think you were referring to "posts" being in the Members Only section and Katz was referring to Trump's position papers.

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We told you Trump would win - bigly!