Author Topic: Standing on the brink of America’s second Civil War  (Read 1852 times)

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Offline Fishrrman

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Standing on the brink of America’s second Civil War
« on: December 06, 2015, 05:54:55 pm »
http://www.commdiginews.com/politics-2/standing-on-the-brink-of-americas-second-civil-war-53295/

Standing on the brink of America’s second Civil War
by William Brute Bradford
Dec 5, 2015

Without a national commitment to limited government and civil discourse, we will find ourselves in the midst of a modern Civil War in America unless we take steps to avoid it



WASHINGTON, December 5, 2015 – Americans are split into two utterly opposed camps at odds over guns, gays, climate change, abortion, the welfare state, healthcare, free speech, and national security. In the media, on the streets, and in workplaces, conservatives and progressives battle over everything.

The bitterness of this internal division has threatened civil war since 1789, unleashed it once, and may do so again.

That the United States circa 2015 is in a state of pre-civil war should terrify all Americans. As Union General William T. Sherman, responsible for the deaths of at least 3% of his countrymen noted while blazing through Georgia in 1864, “War is hell.”

Thus, because civil wars are particularly hellacious, they are especially to be avoided. Ferocious civil wars in Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, and Yemen, and the 1990s-era wars in Yugoslavia and Rwanda, make clear what happens when a nation comes apart.

Brothers fight brothers, blood runs, things burn, and people die—by the millions.

Nearly a score of civil wars ongoing around worldwide attest that is clear that prudence surrenders to passion all too frequently.

Why?

Civil wars happen when three trends merge to create a perfect storm.

First, the impetus to civil war is ideological, not economic or territorial. A nation splits on the basis of deeply incompatible beliefs, values, and ideas about the relationship between the state and the people. There is a divide about how life, liberty and property should be resolved. There is a divide about who resolves conflicts and how.

Ideologically hostile “tribes” trapped within national boundaries find no zone of agreement and no modus vivendi that allow them to coexist.

Second, a nation lurching toward civil war has abandoned its formula for resolving disputes.

Many national constitutions limit governmental powers and delimit boundaries between public and private. People in well-governed republics can choose their versions of the good life within the private sphere.

Where issues are inherently public in nature and thus within governmental province, the constitution provides for the resolution of political and legal conflicts. When followed, constitutions remove many issues from public life, leaving individuals free to pursue happiness so long as that pursuit does not intrude on the rights of others.

And constitutions provide rules and principles for fairly and authoritatively resolving what disputes remain. Yet inhabitants of nations in cold civil wars no longer agree as to constitutional meanings and reject any limits upon government powers, or, worse, abandon constitutions to the passions of temporary political majorities—damning the rights of minorities in the process.

Third, both sides in pre-civil war mode see the other not merely as misguided but as evil, and view their ideas, and those who hold them, as beyond persuasion—fit solely for excommunication and even extermination.

All these preconditions currently exist in the U.S. of 2015.

Contemporary American conservatives revere the military, the police, the family, houses of worship, and gun ownership. They champion a limited federal government charged simply with the defense of life, liberty, and property against domestic and foreign threats. They reject taxing and spending to feed a welfare state.

Conservatives ground notions of the good life in traditional morality and demand government leave them, their values, and their wallets alone. President Thomas Jefferson best articulated conservative ideology when he opined that “that government is best which governs least[.]”

American progressives, in contrast, champion Planned Parenthood, ObamaCare, liberal academia, gay marriage, and activism against “climate change.”

For progressives, government is but an engine to promote “social justice” through wealth redistribution. President Franklin D. Roosevelt, in a 1944 State of the Union Address, articulated a progressive ideology that includes rights to employment, food, clothing, recreation, housing, medical care, retirement, education, and recreation.

Social welfare expenditures trump national security, and because combatting Islamist terrorism would take money away from transformative projects it cannot be acknowledged to exist. Further, gun control is needed to defang preemptively conservative opposition and the capacity to resist the taxes and regulations at the heart of the fundamentally transformative progressive project.

In short, progressives must tax and spend, while grabbing guns and civil liberties, to prevail.

This ideological divide maps across every issue facing Americans today—gun rights, ObamaCare, gay marriage, abortion, free speech, “climate change,” immigration, radical Islam, and so forth.

Conservatives and progressives could not agree as to a common core of facts and assumptions upon which to negotiate differences even if they were willing to try.

Worse, Americans have completely bifurcated on the subject of the Constitution, which for conservatives prohibits virtually all of what progressives intend.

The document is a series of “thou shalt nots” directed toward the government. Those “thou shall nots” protect your individual rights to life, liberty, property and, particularly through the Second Amendment, enable the people to resist tyranny.

For progressives, the Constitution is a fundamentally flawed anachronism that judges must interpret to allow the will of the masses (or even unelected judges) to fundamentally transform the nation. The tortured Supreme Court logic on ObamaCare and gay marriage and the reactions after the fact—despair on the part of conservatives, and a celebratory White House illuminated in the rainbow flag—illustrates just how divided Americans are over the meaning of the Constitution’s power over our laws and liberty.

Third, American progressives have ramped up their demonization of conservatives.

President Obama openly described Republicans as “the enemy” in campaigning for Hispanic votes, and in a recent Democratic presidential debate progressive candidate Hillary Clinton described Republicans—not radical Islam, not a nuclear Iran, not economic malaise, not dreaded diseases—as her primary foe.

Black Lives Matter openly calls for the murder of law enforcement officers. Progressive commentators’ smear Ben Carson in an attempt to destroy his candidacy rather than engage his message.

Champions of the Second Amendment are antigoverment “gun nuts” collectively responsible for shootings of innocents at abortion facilities.

Principled opponents of gay marriage are “homophobes” to be sued and jailed. Heralds of the threat of radical Islam imported under the guise of refugees are “Islamophobes scared of widows and orphans.”

Administrators whose sole crime is being white and insufficiently obeisant to sophomoric student radicals demanding “safe spaces” and insulation from critical thought are “racists” and to be fired immediately.

Global warming skeptics are thought criminals on moral par with Holocaust deniers. Social media battles waged by progressive character assassins against conservative academics and politicians approach cyberwarfare.

In 2015 the U.S. is $20 trillion in debt, under Islamist attack, and adrift from its political and moral traditions. It is not merely a country in steep military and economic decline. It is a republic in a cold civil war.

Every issue is contested by opposed camps who convert disagreements into hatred and enmity. Rule of the mob is replacing rule of law, and rather than look outward for enemies we turn inward.

ISIS has threatened to make U.S. streets run with blood. We may beat them to it, or at least help them prevail.

We must do three things right now to save our nation from civil war.

First, we voters and politicians alike, must recommit to the Jeffersonian principle of limited government. Not every problem is a government problem. Harnessing government to take resources from some to pay for entitlements that purchase the votes of the entitled is un-American and unaffordable for the masses.

Progressive ideology threatens the basic national compact. Attempts to fundamentally transform the nation through legislative or judicial activism inevitably fuel an ideological conflict that imperils the nation.

Second, the Constitution established a modus vivendi to allow conservatives and progressives to coexist but only if we read that document as the Founding Fathers intended it—as a series of “thou shalt nots” limiting government power.

Progressives can have their safe space to live their version of the good life in the private, but not in the public, sphere. They must stop trying to “fundamentally transform the United States of America.”

That very phrase declares ideological warfare and abandons the Constitution, laying down two of the three predicates for U.S. civil war.

Finally, Americans must (re)learn what the concept of “enemy” means. It isn’t an opposing political party.

Americans have lost the knowledge that those who fought in World War II possessed. Enemies are those who threaten the continued existence of the nation. Radical Islam is the enemy of the 21st century just as Nazism and Communism were the enemies of the 20th.

We must admit this and come together to defeat it.

In 1995, an ethnic Serb fighting on behalf of Croatia advised this author that as horrific as the civil war in Yugoslavia was, of the civil war he predicted for the U.S. He saw this nation far more ideologically divided and resource-rich than his own. For these reasons, our Second Civil War will be far more terrible and bloody, and make the world forget the Yugoslav Civil War.

Indeed, a second U.S. civil war that inflicted death on the scale of the first would kill ten million Americans.

Let’s prove our Yugoslavian friend wrong by committing to limited government, a traditional understanding of the Constitution, and a relearning of the concept of the “enemy.”

Only by doing so can we ensure that Americans never suffer the hell of civil war again.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Standing on the brink of America’s second Civil War
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2015, 06:04:07 pm »
Like the imminent economic collapse, I've been reading about a "second civil war" for the last forty years.   In connection with both, somebody's usually hawking a book or gold. 

I guess it will always be such.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline Free Vulcan

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Re: Standing on the brink of America’s second Civil War
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2015, 06:22:22 pm »
Like the imminent economic collapse, I've been reading about a "second civil war" for the last forty years.   In connection with both, somebody's usually hawking a book or gold. 

I guess it will always be such.

And for the last 40 years I've seen the Occam's Razor skeptic crowd denying that we could ever get where we are today. Yet here we are.

I guess it will always be such.

You have a nice Sunday.
The Republic is lost.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Standing on the brink of America’s second Civil War
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2015, 06:26:04 pm »
And for the last 40 years I've seen the Occam's Razor skeptic crowd denying that we could ever get where we are today. Yet here we are.

I guess it will always be such.

You have a nice Sunday.

I choose not to live my life spooked all the time.

You have a nice Sunday too.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline Free Vulcan

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Re: Standing on the brink of America’s second Civil War
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2015, 07:04:41 pm »
I choose not to live my life spooked all the time.

You have a nice Sunday too.

And I choose not to be a frog in a slowly warming tank, living in denial of what is progressing around me, lapping up the liberal 'new normal', going 'huh?' 'whuh?' 'what happened?' when things start really going south.
The Republic is lost.

Offline libertybele

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Re: Standing on the brink of America’s second Civil War
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2015, 08:49:13 pm »
And I choose not to be a frog in a slowly warming tank, living in denial of what is progressing around me, lapping up the liberal 'new normal', going 'huh?' 'whuh?' 'what happened?' when things start really going south.

 :amen:    Apathy Scale: Denial * Uncaring * Indifferent * Motivated

Unfortunately there are those that will only be motivated when it affects them directly as they just seem to never escape the "liberal lunacy" that has engulfed them and continue to live in denial until that point.

Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline libertybele

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Re: Standing on the brink of America’s second Civil War
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2015, 09:06:29 pm »
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline DCPatriot

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Re: Standing on the brink of America’s second Civil War
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2015, 09:14:34 pm »
IMO, they are gearing up.   Good thing it's winter.

But next Spring and Summer is going to be the bitch.

Still say they're planning and setting up for an economic collapse....which will be instigated on Janet Yellen raising interest rates.
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

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Offline massadvj

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Re: Standing on the brink of America’s second Civil War
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2015, 09:20:32 pm »
As far as I can see, the right wing has been amazingly acquiescent to the specter of progressive rule.  While it looks like many people have stocked up on guns and gold, no one has fired a shot, nor even whispered about firing a shot.  I wonder if the left wing will be as compliant when and if a constitutionalist government is elected?

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Standing on the brink of America’s second Civil War
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2015, 09:59:39 pm »
IMO, they are gearing up.   Good thing it's winter.

But next Spring and Summer is going to be the bitch.

Still say they're planning and setting up for an economic collapse....which will be instigated on Janet Yellen raising interest rates.

A quarter percent rise in interest rates is not going to lead to a "collapse."  LOL!!!
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline DCPatriot

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Re: Standing on the brink of America’s second Civil War
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2015, 10:17:23 pm »
A quarter percent rise in interest rates is not going to lead to a "collapse."  LOL!!!

Of course it won't.    But the markets will be spooked.

A single clap of thunder can make horses or cattle stampede, and then who knows what will happen?
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

Offline libertybele

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Re: Standing on the brink of America’s second Civil War
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2015, 10:19:06 pm »
As far as I can see, the right wing has been amazingly acquiescent to the specter of progressive rule.  While it looks like many people have stocked up on guns and gold, no one has fired a shot, nor even whispered about firing a shot.  I wonder if the left wing will be as compliant when and if a constitutionalist government is elected?

I don't know actually what to think at this point. If you take a look at the uprisings that took place after the Trayvon Martin case and Ferguson, etc., people rose up. So far no one has even budged after San Bernadino; guns sales certainly soared, but it really makes me wonder if people are so complacent that they feel that it won't happen in their neighborhoods.  I do know first hand that it is extremely difficult to get people to motivate.  Secondly, the MSM certainly has reported on the incident, but not many stations are airing the fact that our president plans to bring in over 200,000 Muslims into this country over the course of a year.  Perhaps people just aren't informed.  They only other thing that I can think of at this point, people don't know what to do or perhaps feel absolutely powerless and will wait till they are forced to react. OR; take for an example a young family of four, both parents working in order to make ends meet.  One of the parents perhaps works a long work week of 55-60 hours in order to survive.  They are just trying to survive and what is happening around them becomes secondary as they can't afford to take the time off work to protest nor can they afford to become vocal in fear of losing their jobs.  We've become accustomed to our lifestyle and we continue on hoping that those in government will somehow take care of everything; after all we live in the United States of America and not some third world country.  We've been duped into believing and watching the charade that has been going on in Congress.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2015, 10:20:16 pm by libertybele »
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline Free Vulcan

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Re: Standing on the brink of America’s second Civil War
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2015, 10:24:36 pm »
I think there's going to have to be a trigger, with the govt doing something really stupid.

Most people I talk to either are in denial or don't want to deal with it out of fear, or are pretty much like 'we are on our own if we want to survive'. Doesn't seem to be much in the middle.

That's overly simplistic though, but most views seem to be at the extremes.
The Republic is lost.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Standing on the brink of America’s second Civil War
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2015, 10:31:31 pm »
Of course it won't.    But the markets will be spooked.

A single clap of thunder can make horses or cattle stampede, and then who knows what will happen?

The markets factored in a rise in interest rates in October.  Everybody expects it now, especially after the jobs report.

In response to that, the stock market gained 360 points. 
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline libertybele

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Re: Standing on the brink of America’s second Civil War
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2015, 10:35:05 pm »
I think there's going to have to be a trigger, with the govt doing something really stupid.

Most people I talk to either are in denial or don't want to deal with it out of fear, or are pretty much like 'we are on our own if we want to survive'. Doesn't seem to be much in the middle.

That's overly simplistic though, but most views seem to be at the extremes.

Well, the government has been doing something really stupid for quite sometime, keeping our borders open and showing great weakness and now importing Islamic refugees.  You can't get much more stupid. 

I think there are quite a few of us that have realized "We the People" are really on our own.  When you have county sheriffs, mayors of major cities and a president of a major university advising for citizens to be armed ... that should be a wake up call to everyone.  The liberal lunatics will continue to push for gun control and believing all the lies spewed by this administration; that's just not going to change.   At this point it's not lunacy but simply liberal stupidity.
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline Free Vulcan

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Re: Standing on the brink of America’s second Civil War
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2015, 10:47:25 pm »
Well, the government has been doing something really stupid for quite sometime, keeping our borders open and showing great weakness and now importing Islamic refugees.  You can't get much more stupid. 

I think there are quite a few of us that have realized "We the People" are really on our own.  When you have county sheriffs, mayors of major cities and a president of a major university advising for citizens to be armed ... that should be a wake up call to everyone.  The liberal lunatics will continue to push for gun control and believing all the lies spewed by this administration; that's just not going to change.   At this point it's not lunacy but simply liberal stupidity.

True, and I think that stupidity has led to the frustrated distrust in all thing DC, and brought about guys like Trump and even Sanders popularity. But I see the govt doing something very desperate, some kind of in-your-face blatant overreach so over the top that it causes a much more fiercer reaction, such that the states start stepping away from the table and telling DC to piss off.

So far it's been frog in the tank, but that's accelerating, and I feel at some point when things aren't going to the Leftist's timeline, they're going to make a real play for power. When that happens is hard to guess, but I don't see it too far in the future.
The Republic is lost.

Offline Free Vulcan

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Re: Standing on the brink of America’s second Civil War
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2015, 10:55:14 pm »
The markets factored in a rise in interest rates in October.  Everybody expects it now, especially after the jobs report.

In response to that, the stock market gained 360 points.

Oh wow, so nice and neatly wrapped in a bow. Fact is the Fed is playing, some will say having to play, a very dangerous game. Our economy is weak to mediocre in most sectors, but the are goosing rates to maybe spur  a little inflation and get the banks to lend again. If they don't split the middle just right, they could end up really screwing the economic picture badly and create the crash scenario.
The Republic is lost.

Offline famousdayandyear

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Re: Standing on the brink of America’s second Civil War
« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2015, 10:57:13 pm »
True, and I think that stupidity has led to the frustrated distrust in all thing DC, and brought about guys like Trump and even Sanders popularity. But I see the govt doing something very desperate, some kind of in-your-face blatant overreach so over the top that it causes a much more fiercer reaction, such that the states start stepping away from the table and telling DC to piss off.

So far it's been frog in the tank, but that's accelerating, and I feel at some point when things aren't going to the Leftist's timeline, they're going to make a real play for power. When that happens is hard to guess, but I don't see it too far in the future.

Gun confiscation EO will do it.  IMO the muslim in chief has factored it in to his fundamental transformation ideology.
Oops, AG Lynch, don't tase me.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Standing on the brink of America’s second Civil War
« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2015, 11:06:18 pm »
There will be no gun confiscation EO or gun confiscation bill or any other kind of gun confiscation.  It would kill the Democrat Party for a generation and local law enforcement would not cooperate.

In fact, Obama knows he can't do much with an EO on guns or even a universal background check. That's why he hasn't done anything. 
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline DCPatriot

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Re: Standing on the brink of America’s second Civil War
« Reply #19 on: December 06, 2015, 11:09:04 pm »
There will be no gun confiscation EO or gun confiscation bill or any other kind of gun confiscation.  It would kill the Democrat Party for a generation and local law enforcement would not cooperate.

In fact, Obama knows he can't do much with an EO on guns or even a universal background check. That's why he hasn't done anything.

Buddy, I hope you're right here! 
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Offline Scottftlc

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Re: Standing on the brink of America’s second Civil War
« Reply #20 on: December 06, 2015, 11:38:50 pm »
There will be no gun confiscation EO or gun confiscation bill or any other kind of gun confiscation.  It would kill the Democrat Party for a generation and local law enforcement would not cooperate.

In fact, Obama knows he can't do much with an EO on guns or even a universal background check. That's why he hasn't done anything.

Agree completely...he will try to play politics with gun control tonight but not actually do anything but try to taint Republicans with his words. I think he realizes he would harm his own party with anything more. But damn I can hope he over-reaches (please, please) because the backlash would be off the charts.
Well, George Lewis told the Englishman, the Italian and the Jew
You can't open your mind, boys, to every conceivable point of view

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Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Standing on the brink of America’s second Civil War
« Reply #21 on: December 07, 2015, 12:51:49 am »
Precisely what format would a "civil war" take place?

Angry middle-class whites from the suburbs, going by the truck load to the inner city ghettos to battle the black thugs?

Angry middle-class whites from the suburbs, going after pockets of muslims?

In either case does anybody envision local law enforcement stepping out of the way of the angry middle-class whites, to let the other category take a beating?
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Standing on the brink of America’s second Civil War
« Reply #22 on: December 07, 2015, 12:53:52 am »
Paranoia is the number one affliction rampaging through the country.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline DCPatriot

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Re: Standing on the brink of America’s second Civil War
« Reply #23 on: December 07, 2015, 12:55:39 am »
Paranoia is the number one affliction rampaging through the country.


Perhaps.....but even so, there ARE people out there trying to get you.     :laugh:
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: Standing on the brink of America’s second Civil War
« Reply #24 on: December 07, 2015, 01:59:41 am »
Paranoia is the number one affliction rampaging through the country.
Great posts through this whole thread Sinkspur.