Rand Paul: Dick Cheney 'Wrong' About Almost Every Foreign Policy Decision

[Dexter]

The 2011 withdrawal was always negotiable and was meant to be addressed in the future, which is exactly what Iraq and Obama were doing because Iraq still wanted troops.

Bush would have removed the troops too. That's why he made the agreement to do so.

You're a proven liar already, and I won't waste anymore time with a lying liberal.  I also refuse to be civil with you as you came to this community under false pretenses at the beginning.

You refuse to be civil because you're immature.

If the 2011 deadline was permanent, why was your president even negotiating with Iraq?  Duh

I never said the agreement was binding. I said Obama honored the agreement Bush made. Why would Bush make that agreement if he didn't want to remove the troops? Duh.

[Dexter]

Jesus H. Christ!!   Are you a flipping idiot?   Or do you just play one on our board? 

Unless you change your tune immediately, I'll never respond to your crap posts ever again.

Advice....stay the hell off foreign policy/military threads.  Ya goober.   

Why not refute what I said instead of name calling? Is it because you can't? Whether or not you respond to me is your prerogative.

[Dexter]

I've been outing liberals on forums for years.  Dexter is a liberal.

The rest of your post does not address Obama's decision to abandon Iraq, or any of Dexter's deliberately false liberal talking points about it being Bush's fault that Barry left Iraq.

I never said it was Bush's fault. There is no fault because it was the right decision. Bush did good when he made that agreement.

[Godzilla]

You know the best thing about all this is Cards vs. Pirates.

Ninjas vs Pirates!!!

[Godzilla]

You've been misled for the sake of the military-industrial complex and others that profit from war. Islamic extremism cannot be defeated with bombs. It makes me sad to think many of you will never realize that.

Actually, it can.  The question really is, "What becomes of us if we go that route?  Killing all Muslims until they cry mercy."

What we *CAN* do and what is acceptable behavior are two very, VERY different things.

[libertybele]

Ninjas vs Pirates!!!

Conservatives vs. liberal mental midgets!

[Oceander]

You didn't address the point I made. ISIS would not exist if we had never gone to war.

/snicker


I suppose Al Qaeda wouldn't exist if we hadn't gone to war, right?

Saddam Hussein wouldn't have existed if we hadn't gone to war, right?

Iran wouldn't be a radical muslim terror-supporting tyranny if we hadn't gone to war, right?

heck, the Nazis would have been Europe's premier gardening club if we hadn't gone to war, right?

I respect the science stories you find, but your geopolitical sensibilities and general political/philosophical understanding leaves much to be desired.

[Godzilla]

The problem is you won't have the willingness to do what needs to be done to get that level of compliance.

Arabs (in general) are NOT Westerners. They react a lot more like the Japanese. If you want their compliance you have, basically, to terrify them and keep on terrifying them until their great grandchildren will be born with an ingrained fear of you.

Nukes worked on the Japanese (about the only thing that would at the time) but they WILL NOT WORK for this fight. You aren't fighting a nation, with cities and ports and strategic resources. You are fighting an ideology and thus will have to apply the terror retail rather than wholesale.

Your military is admirable. Honorable men and women and they'd simply not stand for it. Nor would the populace. Lets face it, a quarter of the population of the West already consider anyone in uniform to be subhuman baby killers and another quarter of the population are basically too decent to go along with it in the first place.

This. 

Agree completely.

[Godzilla]

Going into Vietnam was a mistake too.

Honestly speaking, had we supported Ho Chi Minh after WWII in his quest to remove the French from his country... Vietnam would be one of our friends in the region.  And they would have been capitalist.

For Ho Chi Minh only turned to the Soviet Union after we ignored his calls.

[libertybele]

/snicker


I suppose Al Qaeda wouldn't exist if we hadn't gone to war, right?

Saddam Hussein wouldn't have existed if we hadn't gone to war, right?

Iran wouldn't be a radical muslim terror-supporting tyranny if we hadn't gone to war, right?

heck, the Nazis would have been Europe's premier gardening club if we hadn't gone to war, right?

I respect the science stories you find, but your geopolitical sensibilities and general political/philosophical understanding leaves much to be desired.

Denial is a form of apathy.  Keeping one's head buried in the sand is characteristic of both.

[Dexter]

/snicker


I suppose Al Qaeda wouldn't exist if we hadn't gone to war, right?

Saddam Hussein wouldn't have existed if we hadn't gone to war, right?

Iran wouldn't be a radical muslim terror-supporting tyranny if we hadn't gone to war, right?

heck, the Nazis would have been Europe's premier gardening club if we hadn't gone to war, right?

No, all of those would still have existed. ISIS wouldn't, though. It's an irrefutable fact that ISIS is as potent as it is because of the U.S military equipment it acquired. The extremists would still be there but they wouldn't be massively empowered like they are now. They wouldn't be ISIS.

[Godzilla]

W.a.r. M.o.n.g.e.r.i.n.g.   It is hopeless to suppose you will discuss this in a reasonable way.

Warmonger
Fishmonger
Ironmonger

A monger is just a seller.  They need a buyer to stay in business.

[Godzilla]

It would be nice if Iran was the focus of evil but it's just one of many bad actors.

I saw a political cartoon about the US, Iran, and ISIS... and thought it very accurate.

[Godzilla]

Conservatives vs. liberal mental midgets!

Godzilla vs. King Kong!!!

[Oceander]

No, all of those would still have existed. ISIS wouldn't, though. It's an irrefutable fact that ISIS is as potent as it is because of the U.S military equipment it acquired. The extremists would still be there but they wouldn't be massively empowered like they are now. They wouldn't be ISIS.

It is not irrefutable.  It is rather refutable, not the least because the Kurds are refuting it on the ground every day.

Use your head for what it was intended, not for toilet paper.

[Dexter]

It is not irrefutable.  It is rather refutable, not the least because the Kurds are refuting it on the ground every day.

Use your head for what it was intended, not for toilet paper.

How are the Kurds refuting what I said? How would ISIS have done what it has done without all of the equipment they got from us?

[Oceander]

How are the Kurds refuting what I said? How would ISIS do what it has done without all of the equipment they got from us?

Oh, I dunno, maybe with the oil they got control of before they got all that equipment.  Maybe from the stocks they captured from Syria?  Maybe from Iran?  Maybe ....?

[Dexter]

Oh, I dunno, maybe with the oil they got control of before they got all that equipment.  Maybe from the stocks they captured from Syria?  Maybe from Iran?  Maybe ....?

Do you seriously believe ISIS would be what it is without the equipment they got from us?

[Oceander]

Do you seriously believe ISIS would be what it is without the equipment they got from us?

I think it's unknowable.  Playing with counterfactuals is playing with fire.  And if you're on fire, it's not because you're correct.

[Godzilla]

Oh, I dunno, maybe with the oil they got control of before they got all that equipment.  Maybe from the stocks they captured from Syria?  Maybe from Iran?  Maybe ....?

Iran isn't funding ISIS.  They are paying for and equipping Hezbollah to fight against ISIS.  It's a major war for the Hezbollah, with large new cemetaries being built in Lebanon to handle the dead.  It's also made the border between Israel and Lebanon much quieter, as the Hezbollah have no more manpower to make hay with Israel.

Personally, I think that after their war with ISIS, the Hezbollah veterans will be far less likely to want to instigate anything with Israel.  They'll have had their fill of carnage and war to last their lifetime.  (as for the next generation... who knows?)

[Oceander]

Iran isn't funding ISIS.  They are paying for and equipping Hezbollah to fight against ISIS.  It's a major war for the Hezbollah, with large new cemetaries being built in Lebanon to handle the dead.  It's also made the border between Israel and Lebanon much quieter, as the Hezbollah have no more manpower to make hay with Israel.

Iran passes money around to whomever will cause problems for the US.  If they then have to come back 'round and kill off their cats' paws, they have no problem with that, either.

[Dexter]

I think it's unknowable.  Playing with counterfactuals is playing with fire.  And if you're on fire, it's not because you're correct.

There's no way they would have achieved what they have without the firepower they got from us. Do you think our intervention improved the Middle East? Do you think more intervention would improve it?

[Dexter]

Iran isn't funding ISIS.  They are paying for and equipping Hezbollah to fight against ISIS.  It's a major war for the Hezbollah, with large new cemetaries being built in Lebanon to handle the dead.  It's also made the border between Israel and Lebanon much quieter, as the Hezbollah have no more manpower to make hay with Israel.

Thank you for bringing up the fact that Iran is actively trying to stop ISIS.

[Bigun]

There's no way they would have achieved what they have without the firepower they got from us. Do you think our intervention improved the Middle East? Do you think more intervention would improve it?

The only reason that they have achieved what they have is that OBAMA let them!  Put that in your pipe and smoke it Junior!

[Godzilla]

Iran passes money around to whomever will cause problems for the US.  If they then have to come back 'round and kill off their cats' paws, they have no problem with that, either.

You realize that the Iranian Revolutionary Guard are actually in Iraq, actively fighting ISIS?

They aren't going to fund the enemy that is killing their own soldiers, any more than we'd fund North Korea in the midst of the Korean war.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_intervention_in_Iraq_(2014–present)