You Hate It From Barack Obama. But You Love It From Donald Trump.

[musiclady]

I think you're missing what's going on here.  This is  more an eruption of the fury that's been building over the past eight years rather than a cult of personality.  Remember, the fury has been not only with Obama but also with the behavior of our esteemed political party.  Any other GOP candidate could have ignited this spark, but for whatever reason, no one else did.   

I think the "thoughtful"  principle driving Trump's popularity comes from deep inside the gut and can be expressed in one simple word:   "ENOUGH!!"

But, rest assured the GOP will return to the lofty tradition of "thoughtfulness"---and in November 2016 they will once again bring a knife to a gunfight.

What makes you think that those of us who find Trump completely unacceptable as a conservative candidate, are not equally frustrated with the impotence of the GOP 'leaders?'

The assumption that opposing Trump, who is NOT conservative, is falling in line with the GOP is ridiculous.

It is precisely because Trump does NOT support the fundamental principles of conservatism, in addition to his bullying and call for an even more imperial presidency, that I oppose him.

Those who are cheering for him are either not listening to him, or really do want a 'Republican' dictator.

I have had "ENOUGH" of dictators, so I do not support Trump.

[aligncare]

Heck, no I don't want a Republican dictator. I'm a small c, small l guy.

The Republican Party is all big G-government.

[musiclady]

Heck, no I don't want a Republican dictator. I'm a small c, small l guy.

The Republican Party is all big G-government.

As is Donald Trump.

We have a better shot at smaller government with someone other than Trump.

We have a far more likely possibility of another bully-dictator on 'our side' if he's elected.

I don't want our own dictator.  Ergo, I don't want Trump.

I've had "ENOUGH."

[aligncare]

As is Donald Trump.

We have a better shot at smaller government with someone other than Trump.

We have a far more likely possibility of another bully-dictator on 'our side' if he's elected.

I don't want our own dictator.  Ergo, I don't want Trump.

I've had "ENOUGH."

But you will concede that the Washington DC Republican Party is only slightly less big G-government than are Democrats?

[EdinVA]

But you will concede that the Washington DC Republican Party is only slightly less big G-government than are Democrats?

No.  The growth is normally slowed during a republican admin BUT I have yet to see a republican admin eliminate anything the dems put in place.

[olde north church]

Maybe but I don't think so! Trump has let the genie out of the bottle and there is NO getting it back in there!

I'm not so sure about that.  It's easier for civilized people to pretend to be uncivilized than the other way around.  I believe there was an episode of "Star Trek" using that as a plot device.

[massadvj]

I find "angry" a bit condescending.  Buchanan and Keyes, angry.  Trump resonates with blue collar people.  The meat and potatoes crowd.  Salt of the earth Americans.

It wasn't meant to be condescending at all.  I myself am angry at establishment politics and I am neither ashamed of it or afraid to admit it.  I haven't (yet?) jumped the shark as far as Trump is concerned, but neither am I necessarily antagonistic toward him or his supporters. 

[olde north church]

It wasn't meant to be condescending at all.  I myself am angry at establishment politics and I am neither ashamed of it or afraid to admit it.  I haven't (yet?) jumped the shark as far as Trump is concerned, but neither am I necessarily antagonistic toward him or his supporters.

I have to apologize to you.  "Angry" is one of my pet peeve words.  It's like nails on a blackboard to me.  I should probably put it in my tagline.

[Luis Gonzalez]

That's fine but you have different fish to fry.

This is the sort of bullshit that I find unacceptable.

What different fish do I have to fry?

Is it a spic fish?

[olde north church]

This is the sort of bullshit that I find unacceptable.

What different fish do I have to fry?

Is it a spic fish?

Actually no.  It's a "Jeb Fish".  You are shilling for Jeb.  I'm sure you have your reasons to push your agenda. 

[Luis Gonzalez]

Actually no.  It's a "Jeb Fish".  You are shilling for Jeb.  I'm sure you have your reasons to push your agenda.

I'm not shilling for anyone.

I support someone just like you do, except the guy I support is a pro-life, pro 2A, tax and government size cutter life-long Republican and not the liberal Democrat you like.

[Right_in_Virginia]

What makes you think that those of us who find Trump completely unacceptable as a conservative candidate, are not equally frustrated with the impotence of the GOP 'leaders?'    It is precisely because Trump does NOT support the fundamental principles of conservatism, in addition to his bullying and call for an even more imperial presidency, that I oppose him.   Those who are cheering for him are either not listening to him, or really do want a 'Republican' dictator.

I have had "ENOUGH" of dictators, so I do not support Trump.

Well, bless your heart.  Your kneejerk reply is, IMHO, a perfect example of the sanctimonious dogmatism that promises to keep Republicans out of the White House for decades.

Well, well done!   

[Right_in_Virginia]

Maybe but I don't think so! Trump has let the genie out of the bottle and there is NO getting it back in there!

I pray you're right.   

[musiclady]

Well, bless your heart.  Your kneejerk reply is, IMHO, a perfect example of the sanctimonious dogmatism that promises to keep Republicans out of the White House for decades.

Well, well done!   

#1 - There was nothing 'kneejerk' about my reply, nor is there EVER anything kneejerk about my replies.

I THINK.  That's what those of us on the right are supposed to do.............. isn't it??

#2  - Your hostile, condescending response is precisely why I'm not going to be on any further threads with "Trump" in the title for quite some in the future.

His supporters are pretty much as nasty as he is, and I'm thinking not a single solitary bit more conservative.....

[musiclady]

But you will concede that the Washington DC Republican Party is only slightly less big G-government than are Democrats?

Of course I do.

It's big government their way, or big government the Republican way.

That's my point here.

Just because some of us don't want another liberal bully in the WH (Trump) doesn't mean we support what the Republican party has been doing or not been doing.

The idea that everyone who hates big government embraces Trump is just poppycock.

It's precisely because I am a small government conservative that I reject him.

[aligncare]

Of course I do.

It's big government their way, or big government the Republican way.

That's my point here.

Just because some of us don't want another liberal bully in the WH (Trump) doesn't mean we support what the Republican party has been doing or not been doing.

The idea that everyone who hates big government embraces Trump is just poppycock.

It's precisely because I am a small government conservative that I reject him.

I understand.

It does present a problem though that conservatives are split on Trump. I've listened to conservative right radio for decades and each side presents good arguments. There is a bit of cognitive dissonance in Republican circles these days and it's all Trump's doing. Imagine how he'll shake up the bureaucracy once he's in office. Not predicting, just speculating.

[musiclady]

I understand.

It does present a problem though that conservatives are split on Trump. I've listened to conservative right radio for decades and each side presents good arguments. There is a bit of cognitive dissonance in Republican circles these days and it's all Trump's doing. Imagine how he'll shake up the bureaucracy once he's in office. Not predicting, just speculating.

That's an interesting speculation, but at what cost?  Our conservative principles down the drain?  Our longing for a smaller government washed away by a guy who thinks he's just going to tell people what to do and they'll do it?

The reason, I posit, that there is a split among conservatives is that there are a number who are just so angry that the fact that Trump is yelling at people makes them feel good.  But in feeling good, they are, I maintain, sacrificing the basic principles of conservatism because Trump doesn't believe in them.

Again.......... feelings are not what is supposed to drive conservatism.  But that's what's happening right now, and it's not a good sign.

[Right_in_Virginia]

I THINK.  That's what those of us on the right are supposed to do.............. isn't it??   #2  - Your hostile, condescending response is precisely why I'm not going to be on any further threads with "Trump" in the title for quite some in the future.  His supporters are pretty much as nasty as he is, and I'm thinking not a single solitary bit more conservative.....

ML you may think, but you think in a very narrow, ever-shrinking box.  You are unable to recognize an organic political movement when it hits you upside the head.  Instead of trying to understand the origins, magnitude, goals and sheer power of this phenomenon--you're trying to kill it because it doesn't fit your mold.   This is not, IMO, "thinking'.  This is stagnating.

And as to my "hostile, condescending" response-- well "hostile" is a bit too emotional a reaction for my taste.  But my reply to you sure was condescending.  I'm actually relieved you "got" that.  But come on, ML--this cannot be the first time--or the 100th time--your "debate" style has earned you a healthy dose of condescension; so please lighten up on the indignation.

[musiclady]

ML you may think, but you think in a very narrow, ever-shrinking box.  You are unable to recognize an organic political movement when it hits you upside the head.  Instead of trying to understand the origins, magnitude, goals and sheer power of this phenomenon--you're trying to kill it because it doesn't fit your mold.   This is not, IMO, "thinking'.  This is stagnating.

And as to my "hostile, condescending" response-- well "hostile" is a bit too emotional a reaction for my taste.  But my reply to you sure was condescending.  I'm actually relieved you "got" that.  But come on, ML--this cannot be the first time--or the 100th time--your "debate" style has earned you a healthy dose of condescension; so please lighten up on the indignation.

Didn't you used to be a nice person?  I was sure I remembered you as a thoughtful, kind man....  Must have been someone else..

As for 'stagnating'............  The vast majority of conservatives who haven't jumped on the dictator for President bandwagon are not 'thinking,' but 'stagnating?'  Stagnating in loving our country and its constitution?  Stagnating in expecting character in our Presidential candidates?  Stagnating in thinking that someone representing us and running for the presidency should at least share a few of our conservative values?

If standing on the Constitution and on ethical principles is stagnation, and if expecting decency and character in a President is stagnation, then I'll gladly wear the label, and endure the insults that you so drippingly shower upon me.

I'll consider it a red badge of courage.

So, thanks.   

[musiclady]

It's interesting how so many of the defenders of Trump turn to personal insults when they can't reply with reasoned answers to the questions Trump's lack of conservatism raise.

This is the second time in 24 hours that a Trump fan has resorted to very personal attacks on me and chosen not to respond to the substance of my posts.  One must presume that it's because there IS no response to Trump's lack of conservatism, so ad hominems are all they have.

Again............. once this thread and the other are done, I am OFF Trump threads.

I'm starting to get TOS flashbacks, not being able to trust people to be decent, and I don't like the feeling at all......

In the mean time there are at least 4 or 5 potentially strong candidates to look at, and that's exactly what I'm going to continue doing.

[Lando Lincoln]

This is August 2015.  Election night happens in November 2016. 

This is gonna be a slog.

[Lando Lincoln]

In the mean time there are at least 4 or 5 potentially strong candidates to look at, and that's exactly what I'm going to continue doing.

Amen ML.  Amen.

[musiclady]

Amen ML.  Amen.

After the last 24 hours, I think I may have to do it someplace else.

Too much 'incoming' in what should be (and usually is) a place for reasonable dialogue......

I'm stunned.

[Bigun]

After the last 24 hours, I think I may have to do it someplace else.

Too much 'incoming' in what should be (and usually is) a place for reasonable dialogue......

I'm stunned.

Don't let it get to you ML!  I may read something with the word TRUMP in the title  but rarely comment on it these days. Just like the flu this will also pass.

[musiclady]

Don't let it get to you ML!  I may read something with the word TRUMP in the title  but rarely comment on it these days. Just like the flu this will also pass.

Thanks, Bigun.

That's what I've decided I'm going to have to do............ unless I just decide to take a break for a while.

All I can say is, if this flu doesn't pass before long, we're in even greater trouble than I've imagined before.

Now I think I'll go make some music to clear my head and ease my troubled soul.....