Author Topic: Trump’s Critics Are Wrong about the Fourteenth Amendment and Birthright Citizenship  (Read 6173 times)

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http://www.nationalreview.com/node/422723/print

 Trump’s Critics Are Wrong about the Fourteenth Amendment and Birthright Citizenship
By Edward J. Erler — August 19, 2015

Donald Trump continues to bewilder political experts. He unabashedly wades into politically dangerous territory and yet continues to be rewarded by favorable poll results. He has clearly tapped into a reserve of public resentment for inside-the-Beltway politics. How far this resentment will carry him is anyone’s guess, but the Republican establishment is worried. His latest proposal to end birthright citizenship has set off alarm bells in the Republican party.

The leadership worries that Trump will derail the party’s plans to appeal to the Latino vote. Establishment Republicans believe that the future of the party depends on being able to capture a larger share of this rapidly expanding electorate. Trump’s plan, however, may appeal to the most rapidly expanding electorate, senior citizens, and may have an even greater appeal to the millions of Republicans who stayed away from the polls in 2012 as well as the ethnic and blue-collar Democrats who crossed party lines to vote Republican in the congressional elections of 2014. All of these voters outnumber any increase in the Latino vote that Republicans could possibly hope to gain from a population that has consistently voted Democratic by a two-thirds majority and shows little inclination to change.

continued
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Offline GourmetDan

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Funny how no one even questions why the 14th Amendment has the phrase "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" when it describes birthright citizenship.

If simply being born in the U.S. was enough to confer citizenship, that phrase is unnecessary...

The UnConstitutionality of Citizenship by Birth to Non-Americans

"This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons."

"In a nutshell, it means this: The constitution of the United States does not grant citizenship at birth to just anyone who happens to be born within American borders. It is the allegiance (complete jurisdiction) of the child's birth parents at the time of birth that determines the child's citizenship--not geographical location. If the United States does not have complete jurisdiction, for example, to compel a child's parents to Jury Duty - then the U.S. does not have the total, complete jurisdiction demanded by the Fourteenth Amendment to make their child a citizen of the United States by birth. How could it possibly be any other way?"

"The framers succeeded in their desire to remove all doubt as to what persons are or are not citizens of the United States. They also succeeded in making both their intent and construction clear for future generations of courts and government. Whether our government or courts will start to honor and uphold the supreme law of the land for which they are obligated to by oath, is another very disturbing matter."

Lying to you again, aren't they...


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Offline GourmetDan

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The INS certainly had no problem trying to deport this woman and her American-born children.

Think maybe the just weren't aware of the 14th Amendment?

***********************************************************************************

WIDOW’S TORMENT: INS SET TO DEPORT WIFE AND TWO SONS OF 9/11 HERO

"A heartbroken 9/11 widow is waging a personal war against the INS, which is determined to kick the British national out of the country, although her two young children are Americans.

Deena Gilbey’s husband, Paul, described as a true hero because he helped evacuate his co-workers and stayed behind to rescue others, was a currency broker with EuroBrokers on the 84th floor of the World Trade Center’s south tower.

But neither of the Gilbeys were American citizens.

“Two days after he was killed, they coldly told me, ‘Your husband has expired and so has your right to stay in this country,’ ” Deena Gilbey told The Post. “When I asked, ‘What will happen to me?’ They responded, ‘You will be arrested and deported.’ “

She and Paul had lived in the United States for 10 years, and their children, Mason, 7, and Max, 4, were both born here. The couple had applied for green cards in 1994 but had to start the process over again when her husband changed jobs.

Deena, of Chatham, N.J., has even tried to stay under the USA Patriot Act. The law was introduced after 9/11 and allows foreign-born spouses and children of the attack victims to apply for green cards.

Immigration and Naturalization Service officials said she didn’t qualify because her paperwork had not reached a certain level of the process.

Gilbey said the INS supervisor in Newark told her that if she was granted the green card, it would set a dangerous precedent. Today, she is living on her dead husband’s life insurance and praying the American press and public comes to her aid.

The INS’ lack of empathy has been startling, she said."

"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." - Ecclesiastes 10:2

"The sole purpose of the Republican Party is to serve as an ineffective alternative to the Democrat Party." - GourmetDan

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Funny how no one even questions why the 14th Amendment has the phrase "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" when it describes birthright citizenship.

If simply being born in the U.S. was enough to confer citizenship, that phrase is unnecessary...

The UnConstitutionality of Citizenship by Birth to Non-Americans

"This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons."

"In a nutshell, it means this: The constitution of the United States does not grant citizenship at birth to just anyone who happens to be born within American borders. It is the allegiance (complete jurisdiction) of the child's birth parents at the time of birth that determines the child's citizenship--not geographical location. If the United States does not have complete jurisdiction, for example, to compel a child's parents to Jury Duty - then the U.S. does not have the total, complete jurisdiction demanded by the Fourteenth Amendment to make their child a citizen of the United States by birth. How could it possibly be any other way?"

"The framers succeeded in their desire to remove all doubt as to what persons are or are not citizens of the United States. They also succeeded in making both their intent and construction clear for future generations of courts and government. Whether our government or courts will start to honor and uphold the supreme law of the land for which they are obligated to by oath, is another very disturbing matter."

Lying to you again, aren't they...

Considering that if an illegal commits a crime and is caught, they are arrested... that fits the bill for "subject to the jurisdiction thereof".

If there are not under our jurisdiction, then they cannot be arrested.  Diplomats, for instance, fit in this category.

Offline GourmetDan

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Considering that if an illegal commits a crime and is caught, they are arrested... that fits the bill for "subject to the jurisdiction thereof".

If there are not under our jurisdiction, then they cannot be arrested.  Diplomats, for instance, fit in this category.

As the link I posted clearly explained, debate at the time did not consider the threat of arrest for a foreigner or alien to be "subject to the jurisdiction thereof".

Quote
"This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons."

Unless you want to claim that illegal aliens could not be arrested in the U.S. in 1866...



"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." - Ecclesiastes 10:2

"The sole purpose of the Republican Party is to serve as an ineffective alternative to the Democrat Party." - GourmetDan

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As the link I posted clearly explained, debate at the time did not consider the threat of arrest for a foreigner or alien to be "subject to the jurisdiction thereof".

Unless you want to claim that illegal aliens could not be arrested in the U.S. in 1866...

Good thing it's not 1866.

And the Supreme Court ruled on the matter in 1895.  Quite in the opposite to your view.

So precedence has been set and a Supreme Court ruling has provided mandatory legal guidance for all the courts to follow throughout our entire land.

The way to change that is to draft and pass a Constitutional amendment creating an exemption to the 14th Amendment with regards to illegals.

Best of luck.

---

U.S. v. WONG KIM ARK
http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/169/649.html

This was a writ of habeas corpus, issued October 2, 1895, by the district court of the United States for the Northern district of California, to the collector of customs at the port of San Francisco, in behalf of Wong Kim Ark, who alleged that he was a citizen of the United States, of more than 21 years of age, and was born at San Francisco in 1873, of parents of Chinese descent, and subjects of the emperor of China, but domiciled residents at San Francisco; and that, on his return to the United States on the steamship Coptic, in August, 1895, from a temporary visit to China, he applied to said collector of customs for permission to land, and was by the collector refused such permission, and was restrained of his liberty by the collector, and by the general manager of the steamship company acting under his direction, in violation of the constitution and laws of the United States, not by virtue of any judicial order or proceeding, but solely upon the pretense that he was not a citizen of the United States.

<more at link>
« Last Edit: August 19, 2015, 10:25:22 pm by Godzilla »

Offline aligncare

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The Supreme Court has never ruled on birthright citizenship. It is accepted that the practice of conferring birthright citizenship probably sprung into being some time ago somewhere in the federal bureaucracy.

The author of the 14th amendment, at the time of its passage, said explicitly the 14th amendment was not intended to confer citizenship on native Americans. Yes, they are persons born in America, but because they owed allegiance to their tribes –this is the "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" part– and not to the United States, just the condition of being born in America is not enough to make them American citizens.

The question then arises, why would the framers exclude from citizenship native Americans born here, but include the children of illegal aliens born here? It defies logic.

Besides that, congress passed the Indian Citizenship Act of 1924 granting citizenship to native Americans. Showing that congress has plenary powers over who are citizens and who are not. The courts implied powers of judicial review do not supersede congress' explicit power under the fourteenth amendment.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2015, 01:51:50 am by aligncare »

Offline aligncare

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Furthermore, if the left wants birthright citizenship, then they need to pass an amendment to the constitution making that the law of the land. Because the 14th amendment as written plainly does not confer birthright citizenship on the children of illegal aliens.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2015, 12:00:56 am by aligncare »

Godzilla

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The Supreme Court has never ruled on birthright citizenship. It is accepted that the practice of conferring birthright citizenship probably sprung into being some time ago somewhere in the federal bureaucracy.

The author of the 14th amendment, at the time of its passage, said explicitly the 14th amendment was not intended to confer citizenship on native Americans. Yes, they are persons born in America, but because they owed allegiance to their tribes –this is the "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" part– and not to the United States, just the condition of being born in America is not enough to make them American citizens.

The question then arises, why would the framers exclude from citizenship native Americans born here, but include the children of illegal aliens born here? It defies logic.

Besides that, congress in 1923 passed legislation granting citizenship to native Americans. Showing that congress has plenary powers over who are citizens and who are not. The courts implied powers of judicial review do not supersede congress' explicit power under the fourteenth amendment.

Defies logic?  Not in the slightest.

The native Americans lived on reservations which were considered sovereign and independent nations.  Therefore, native Americans were not under the jurisdiction of the USA as they lived in their own countries.

Offline aligncare

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Defies logic?  Not in the slightest.

The native Americans lived on reservations which were considered sovereign and independent nations.  Therefore, native Americans were not under the jurisdiction of the USA as they lived in their own countries.

Thank you for reinforcing my point, and the point of the 14th amendment: "subject to the jurisdiction thereof."

Being born in the United States alone is not enough to confer citizenship on the children of parents who owe allegiance to a country other than America. Just like tribal nations within America.

Godzilla

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Thank you for reinforcing my point, and the point of the 14th amendment: "subject to the jurisdiction thereof."

Being born in the United States alone is not enough to confer citizenship on the children of parents who owe allegiance to a country other than America. Just like tribal nations within America.

Again, you contradict yourself.

Native Americans lived in their own sovereign and independent nations.  That defines the concept of "not subject to the jurisdiction thereof".

Illegals live *IN* America.  Being in America, you *ARE* "subject to the jurisdiction thereof".

Therefore, the 14th Amendment applies.  And the Supreme Court agrees.

Offline Bigun

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Quote
Illegals live *IN* America.  Being in America, you *ARE* "subject to the jurisdiction thereof".

They are also still citizens of the country from which they came  and subject to the jurisdiction there of as well so they are NOT automatically citizens of the United States just because their moma made it across the river in time to give birth on U.S. soil!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline aligncare

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Again, you contradict yourself.

Native Americans lived in their own sovereign and independent nations.  That defines the concept of "not subject to the jurisdiction thereof".

Illegals live *IN* America.  Being in America, you *ARE* "subject to the jurisdiction thereof".

Therefore, the 14th Amendment applies.  And the Supreme Court agrees.

Perhaps the problem here is the various misinterpretations of the phrase "subject to the jurisdiction thereof." In the time of the convention it meant "owing allegiance to." There are ample contemporaneous writings to support that interpretation.

Children born to parents who at the time of birth owed allegiance to a foreign power were never intended by the framers to be American citizens. It's ludicrous to assume the framers wanted the children of illegal immigrants to claim citizenship.

Offline aligncare

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Here's the citizenship clause of the 14th amendment:

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

If the framers wanted citizenship to be conferred simply by the event of birth on American soil, they would have simply ended the sentence with a period and without the phrase "subject to the jurisdiction thereof":

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."
« Last Edit: August 20, 2015, 01:45:58 am by aligncare »

Online Fishrrman

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Here is how resolution of this issue must proceed:

First, the Congress must pass a law that asserts the "jurisdiction clause", and outlaws "birthright citizenship". That law must be signed by the president.

Of course, such law will immediately be challenged by the left and adjudicated all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court. This is the logical and appropriate process. The Court must issue its ruling as to whether Congress' action based upon the jurisdiction clause is, or is not Constitutional.

If the Court says "no", then it will be time to consider a Constitutional amendment to repair or replace the original Fourteenth Amendment with new language that clarifies what situation(s) bestow U.S. citizenship.

I wrote about this yesterday, and will bring some of that over to this post.

At the very least, the "birthright citizenship" language needs to be excised, and replaced with wording to the effect that to be considered a "citizen of the United States" one must be born of two parents who already -are- "citizens of the United States" (can be either naturalized or "natural born", keep reading).

Also, the re-written amendment should clarify and define what "natural born citizen" is, insofar as it is used in the Constitution.

I believe that "natural born citizen" should be defined as being born to two citizens of the United States within the borders of the United States (note again that the "citizens" can be naturalized citizens, but that the birth must occur -in- the United States), or in other circumstances as legislated by the Congress. An example of an "other circumstance" might include an American couple in foreign service who has a child overseas, and registers the birth promptly. But most importantly, the ambiguity regarding the words "natural born" will be removed, replaced by an irrefutable definition. This was an oversight of The Founders at the Constitutional Convention -- it's time to nail it down.

Political divisions in the Congress will prevent such an amendment to emanate from that body.
If "birthright citizenship" is to be abolished the movement to do so must come from the States by way of an Article V Convention.

If the Supreme Court were to rule against a Congressionally-enacted law banning birthright citizenship, I sense there might be enough anger among Euro-Americans "at the state level" to get Article V underway.

Could be wishful thinking on my part.
But that's the only way this battle is ever going to be won.

If it is indeed "unwinnable", kiss traditional America, its culture, and republican government goodbye.
Because we're going to be swamped with a wave of "immigrants" that history has never seen...

Godzilla

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My great-grandfather was an illegal who jumped ship in the New York harbor, fearing he'd be sent back to Imperial Russia.

Should this drive to end birthright citizenship succeed, that would mean that my grandfather was never a US citizen.  And his children, one of whom is my mother, would have been born as illegals.  And so I would be an illegal.

I cannot support anyone that would strip my grandfather, my mother, and myself of citizenship.  Nor can I support anyone that would push this tripe.

Frankly, it's sickening.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2015, 02:00:20 am by Godzilla »

Online Fishrrman

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Godzilla wrote above (breathing fire):
[[ I cannot support anyone that would strip my grandfather, my mother, and myself of citizenship.  Nor can I support anyone that would push this tripe. ]]

Question for ya:

What other country in the entire world provides foreigners with "birthright citizenship"?

I'll be a-waitin' your reply...!

Offline Bigun

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My great-grandfather was an illegal who jumped ship in the New York harbor, fearing he'd be sent back to Imperial Russia.

Should this drive to end birthright citizenship succeed, that would mean that my grandfather was never a US citizen.  And his children, one of whom is my mother, would have been born as illegals.  And so I would be an illegal.

I cannot support anyone that would strip my grandfather, my mother, and myself of citizenship.  Nor can I support anyone that would push this tripe.

Frankly, it's sickening.

I'll tell you what I find sickening! I find the idea that an Iranian citizen could slip across our border and give birth to a child that could conceivably some day become president of the United States.  THAT is what I find sickening!
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- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline alicewonders

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My great-grandfather was an illegal who jumped ship in the New York harbor, fearing he'd be sent back to Imperial Russia.

Should this drive to end birthright citizenship succeed, that would mean that my grandfather was never a US citizen.  And his children, one of whom is my mother, would have been born as illegals.  And so I would be an illegal.

I cannot support anyone that would strip my grandfather, my mother, and myself of citizenship.  Nor can I support anyone that would push this tripe.

Frankly, it's sickening.

I don't think it would necessarily follow that people such as yourself would have your citizenship taken away by such a law.  It would probably be take effect when it was passed. 

I saw a clip on Buck Sexton's show tonight of Trump - I think he was on O'Reilly's show.  Trump was saying that he has some good lawyers looking into this.  It would be a way to end the practice of women coming here just to give birth to a baby which would be endowed with automatic citizenship.  It is being abused and there certainly are questions that need to be looked at as to whether you would even need to go through with a Constitutional amendment instead of Congress just passing a law.

I do like that Trump is bringing this out - that shows the possibility of "action" - not just talking about it. 

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Offline ABX

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My big concern is any attempt at ex post facto application of this. Once someone is recognized as a US citizen, we are on a very dangerous path if the government can then strip that from them.  At that point, the slippery slope of having the government strip already recognized citizenship and the protections therein can be abused far more than one can imagine just scratching the surface of this.

Offline Bigun

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The UnConstitutionality of Citizenship by Birth to Non-Americans

The 14th Amendment

By P.A. Madison
Former Research Fellow in Constitutional Studies

February 1, 2005

We well know how the courts and laws have spoken on the subject of children born to non-citizens (illegal aliens) within the jurisdiction of the United States by declaring them to be American citizens. But what does the constitution of the United States say about the issue of giving American citizenship to anyone born within its borders? As we explore the constitutions citizenship clause, as found in the Fourteenth Amendment, we can find no constitutional authority to grant such citizenship to persons born to non-American citizens within the limits of the United States of America.

We are, or should be, familiar with the phrase, "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and the States wherein they reside." This can be referred to as the citizenship clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, but what does "subject to the jurisdiction" mean? Jurisdiction can take on different meanings that can have nothing to do with physical boundaries alone--and if the framers meant geographical boundaries they would have simply used the term "limits" rather than "jurisdiction" since that was the custom at the time when distinguishing between physical boundaries and reach of law.

Fortunately, we have the highest possible authority on record to answer this question of how the term "jurisdiction" was to be interpreted and applied, the author of the citizenship clause, Sen. Jacob M. Howard (MI) to tell us exactly what it means and its intended scope as he introduced it to the United States Senate in 1866:

Quote
Quote
Mr. HOWARD: I now move to take up House joint resolution No. 127.

The motion was agreed to; and the Senate, as in Committee of the Whole, resumed the consideration of the joint resolution (H.R. No. 127) proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States.

The first amendment is to section one, declaring that all "persons born in the United States and Subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the States wherein they reside. I do not propose to say anything on that subject except that the question of citizenship has been fully discussed in this body as not to need any further elucidation, in my opinion. This amendment which I have offered is simply declaratory of what I regard as the law of the land already, that every person born within the limits of the United States, and subject to their jurisdiction, is by virtue of natural law and national law a citizen of the United States. This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons. It settles the great question of citizenship and removes all doubt as to what persons are or are not citizens of the United States. This has long been a great desideratum in the jurisprudence and legislation of this country.[1]

It is clear the framers of the Fourteenth Amendment had no intention of freely giving away American citizenship to just anyone simply because they may have been born on American soil, something our courts have wrongfully assumed. But what exactly did "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" mean to the framers of the Fourteenth Amendment? Again, we are fortunate to have on record the highest authority to tell us, Sen. Lyman Trumbull, Chairman of the Judiciary Committee, author of the Thirteenth Amendment, and the one who inserted the phrase:

Quote
[T]he provision is, that 'all persons born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens.' That means 'subject to the complete jurisdiction thereof.' What do we mean by 'complete jurisdiction thereof?' Not owing allegiance to anybody else. That is what it means.

Trumbull continues, "Can you sue a Navajo Indian in court? Are they in any sense subject to the complete jurisdiction of the United States? By no means. We make treaties with them, and therefore they are not subject to our jurisdiction. If they were, we wouldn't make treaties with them...It is only those persons who come completely within our jurisdiction, who are subject to our laws, that we think of making citizens; and there can be no objection to the proposition that such persons should be citizens.[2]

Sen. Howard concurs with Trumbull's construction:

Quote
Mr. HOWARD: I concur entirely with the honorable Senator from Illinois [Trumbull], in holding that the word "jurisdiction," as here employed, ought to be construed so as to imply a full and complete jurisdiction on the part of the United States, whether exercised by Congress, by the executive, or by the judicial department; that is to say, the same jurisdiction in extent and quality as applies to every citizen of the United States now.[3]

In other words, only children born to American citizens can be considered citizens of the United States since only a American citizen could enjoy the "extent and quality" of jurisdiction of an American citizen now. Sen. Johnson, speaking on the Senate floor, offers his comments and understanding of the proposed new amendment to the constitution:

[Now], all this amendment [citizenship clause] provides is, that all persons born in the United States and not subject to some foreign Power--for that, no doubt, is the meaning of the committee who have brought the matter before us--shall be considered as citizens of the United States. That would seem to be not only a wise but a necessary provision. If there are to be citizens of the United States there should be some certain definition of what citizenship is, what has created the character of citizen as between himself and the United States, and the amendment says that citizenship may depend upon birth, and I know of no better way to give rise to citizenship than the fact of birth within the territory of the United States, born to parents who at the time were subject to the authority of the United States.[4]

No doubt in the Senate as to what the citizenship clause means as further evidenced by Sen. W. Williams:

Quote
In one sense, all persons born within the geographical limits of the United States are subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, but they are not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States in every sense. Take the child of an ambassador. In one sense, that child born in the United States is subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, because if that child commits the crime of murder, or commits any other crime against the laws of the country, to a certain extent he is subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, but not in every respect; and so with these Indians. All persons living within a judicial district may be said, in one sense, to be subject to the jurisdiction of the court in that district, but they are not in every sense subject to the jurisdiction of the court until they are brought, by proper process, within the reach of the power of the court. I understand the words here, 'subject to the jurisdiction of the United States,' to mean fully and completely subject to the jurisdiction of the United States.[5]

Rep. John Bingham of Ohio, considered the father of the Fourteenth Amendment, confirms the understanding and construction the framers used in regards to birthright and jurisdiction while speaking on civil rights of citizens in the House on March 9, 1866:

Quote
find no fault with the introductory clause [S 61 Bill], which is simply declaratory of what is written in the Constitution, that every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural born citizen...[6]

Further convincing evidence for the demand of complete allegiance required for citizenship can be found in the "Naturalization Oath of Allegiance to the United States of America," an oath required to become an American citizen of the United States. It reads in part:

Quote
I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen...

Of course, this very oath leaves no room for dual-citizenship, but that is another troubling disregard for our National principles by modern government. Fewer today are willing to renounce completely their allegiance to their natural country of origin, further making a mockery of our citizenship laws. In fact, recently in Los Angeles you could find the American flag discarded for the flag of Mexico in celebration after taking the American Citizenship Oath.

It's noteworthy to point out a Supreme Court ruling in Afroyim v. Rusk, 387 U.S. 253 (1967), where the court completely discarded the fourteenth's Citizenship Clause scope and intent by replacing it with their own invented Citizenship Clause. The court in effect, ruled that fourteenth amendment had elevated citizenship to a new constitutionally protected right, and thus, prevents the cancellation of a persons citizenship unless they assent.

Unfortunately for the court, Sen. Howard effectively shoots down this feeble attempt to replace his clause with their own home grown Citizenship Clause. Firstly, Howard finds no incompatibility with expatriation and the fourteenth's Citizenship Clause when he says: "I take it for granted that when a man becomes a citizen of the United States under the Constitution he cannot cease to be a citizen, except by expatriation for the commission of some crime by which his citizenship shall be forfeited."

Secondly, Sen. Howard expressly stated, "I am not yet prepared to pass a sweeping act of naturalization by which all the Indian savages, wild or tame, belonging to a tribal relation, are to become my fellow-citizens and go to the polls and vote with me and hold lands and deal in every other way that a citizen of the United States has a right to do."

The question begs: If Howard had no intention of passing a sweeping act of naturalization--how does the court elevate Howard's Citizenship Clause to a new constitutionally protected right that cannot be taken away since this would certainly require a sweeping act with explicit language to enumerate such a new constitutional right? Remember, the court cannot create new rights that are not already expressly granted by the constitution.

A third problem for the court is the fact both Howard and Bingham viewed the citizenship clause as simply "declaratory" of what they regarded "as the law of the land already." This then requires flights of fantasy to elevate Howard's express purpose of inserting the Citizenship Clause as simply removing "all doubt as to what persons are or are not citizens of the United States," and not to elevate citizenship to a new protected constitutional right. Citizenship is a privilege, not a right as say the right to freedom of religion is, and therefore, can be taken away just as any other privilege can be.

James Madison defined who America seeked to be citizens among us along with some words of wisdom:

Quote
When we are considering the advantages that may result from an easy mode of naturalization, we ought also to consider the cautions necessary to guard against abuse. It is no doubt very desirable that we should hold out as many inducements as possible for the worthy part of mankind to come and settle amongst us, and throw their fortunes into a common lot with ours. But why is this desirable? Not merely to swell the catalogue of people. No, sir, it is to increase the wealth and strength of the community; and those who acquire the rights of citizenship, without adding to the strength or wealth of the community are not the people we are in want of.[7]


What does it all mean?

In a nutshell, it means this: The constitution of the United States does not grant citizenship at birth to just anyone who happens to be born within American borders. It is the allegiance (complete jurisdiction) of the child's birth parents at the time of birth that determines the child's citizenship--not geographical location. If the United States does not have complete jurisdiction, for example, to compel a child's parents to Jury Duty - then the U.S. does not have the total, complete jurisdiction demanded by the Fourteenth Amendment to make their child a citizen of the United States by birth. How could it possibly be any other way?

The framers succeeded in their desire to remove all doubt as to what persons are or are not citizens of the United States. They also succeeded in making both their intent and construction clear for future generations of courts and government. Whether our government or courts will start to honor and uphold the supreme law of the land for which they are obligated to by oath, is another very disturbing matter.


Footnotes

[1]. Congressional Globe, 39th Congress (1866) pg. 2890 (view actual page)
[2]. Id. at 2893
[3]. Id. at 2895
[4]. Id. at 2893
[5]. Id. at 2897
[6]. Id. at 1291
[7]. James Madison on Rule of Naturalization, 1st Congress, Feb. 3, 1790.
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"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Bigun

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My big concern is any attempt at ex post facto application of this. Once someone is recognized as a US citizen, we are on a very dangerous path if the government can then strip that from them.  At that point, the slippery slope of having the government strip already recognized citizenship and the protections therein can be abused far more than one can imagine just scratching the surface of this.

To my knowledge no one has ever, even remotely, suggested such a thing but perhaps I missed it.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline alicewonders

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My big concern is any attempt at ex post facto application of this. Once someone is recognized as a US citizen, we are on a very dangerous path if the government can then strip that from them.  At that point, the slippery slope of having the government strip already recognized citizenship and the protections therein can be abused far more than one can imagine just scratching the surface of this.

I don't think it would necessarily follow that anyone would have their citizenship stripped.  In fact, I don't think it's likely.  I'm talking about putting a stop to it from here on out. 

People have got to stop putting roadblocks up on the illegal immigration issue.  Saying we can't round up and deport and split up families - Trump had the right answer - don't split them up, deport the whole family.  Saying we can't toughen up our border patrol.....can't change the birthright issue.

These things CAN and NEED to be done to fix our illegal problems.

If I were President - I would give illegals, say 30 days to self-deport themselves before they are caught and identified - and deported.  Self-deport and get in the back of the line to come in the right way.  Get deported by the gov't - and you lose the chance to ever come back. 

You don't go knocking on doors - but when an illegal passes through some governmental department - you check them and identify if they are illegal - then you deport them.

We have ways to fix many of the problems - won't ever be 100% foolproof, but a damn sight better than we are doing now.

Don't tread on me.   8888madkitty

We told you Trump would win - bigly!

Offline Bigun

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"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline truth_seeker

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There is an industry in SoCal for people coming here from Asia, to stay a few weeks and give birth.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/us-agents-raid-alleged-maternity-tourism-anchor-baby-businesses-catering-to-chinese-1425404456
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln