Trump vows to deport all undocumented immigrants and rescind any protections put in place by Obama

[Luis Gonzalez]

This is true, but the correlary to it is that all those speeders today are perfectly legal.  As would all the illegal immigrants become legal immigrants if the law is changed.

Which is my point.

Basing one's argument over the law is dangerous, as the whole foundation can be ripped out from under should the law be changed.

I mean, are we still arguing over how all those people driving 65mph are speeders breaking the 'law'?

And I highly doubt that, if the law was changed to make the current illegals... legal, that the conservatives who are against illegals would suddenly say, "Oh, well.  The law says that they are now legal.  No laws are now being broken, so we are happy with the situation."

Yet, the substance of their argument is *EXACTLY* that. 

I would prefer that the argument be based on their actual concerns... and not on an artifice that can be so easily destroyed.

Here's the thing.

Amnesty can be granted and the law can still remain in place unchanged.

So in essence, 11+ million people can be given amnesty for entering the country illegally at 11:59 PM December 31st 2015, and the guy who crosses the border illegally at Midnight January 1st 2016, will be guilty of breaking the law.

[Godzilla]

Here's the thing.

Amnesty can be granted and the law can still remain in place unchanged.

So in essence, 11+ million people can be given amnesty for entering the country illegally at 11:59 PM December 31st 2015, and the guy who crosses the border illegally at Midnight January 1st 2016, will be guilty of breaking the law.

And since that follows the letter of the 'law', those arguing that the illegal immigrant situation is only an issue "cause it's called 'illegal' for a reason" crowd should be sated, by their own logic.

I, however, don't believe that they would.

Which means that the argument against illegal immigration has nothing to do with the letter of the law.

And if it's such an amazingly important issue, don't the real sticking points need to be identified and not hidden away with legal trickery?  After all, you can't win an argument if you don't really know *WHY* you have taken the position you have.

[DCPatriot]

And since that follows the letter of the 'law', those arguing that the illegal immigrant situation is only an issue "cause it's called 'illegal' for a reason" crowd should be sated, by their own logic.

I, however, don't believe that they would.

Which means that the argument against illegal immigration has nothing to do with the letter of the law.

And if it's such an amazingly important issue, don't the real sticking points need to be identified and not hidden away with legal trickery?  After all, you can't win an argument if you don't really know *WHY* you have taken the position you have.

So what's your end-game here?

To get some SOCONS to publicly whip themselves and admit to xenophobia and being bigots?

Good luck with that, Godzilla.   

There are too many illegal, undocumented people walking into our country everyday without resistance.

When are you going to admit that is a very stupid and reckless policy if you want to maintain a semblance of a country with laws?

[Bigun]

And since that follows the letter of the 'law', those arguing that the illegal immigrant situation is only an issue "cause it's called 'illegal' for a reason" crowd should be sated, by their own logic.

I, however, don't believe that they would.

Which means that the argument against illegal immigration has nothing to do with the letter of the law.

And if it's such an amazingly important issue, don't the real sticking points need to be identified and not hidden away with legal trickery?  After all, you can't win an argument if you don't really know *WHY* you have taken the position you have.

I can't speak for others but I know EXACTLY what the problem is and I'm FED UP with it!  The problem is that the inside the beltway bastards (both parties)  have sold and continue to sell us out for campaign cash from their REAL masters on K street!

[Luis Gonzalez]

I can't speak for others but I know EXACTLY what the problem is and I'm FED UP with it!  The problem is that the inside the beltway bastards (both parties)  have sold and continue to sell us out for campaign cash from their REAL masters on K street!

Try Activia.

[Bigun]

Try Activia.

Screw you Luis!  You and the GOPe!

[Luis Gonzalez]

Screw you Luis!  You and the GOPe!

 

[alicewonders]

And since that follows the letter of the 'law', those arguing that the illegal immigrant situation is only an issue "cause it's called 'illegal' for a reason" crowd should be sated, by their own logic.

I, however, don't believe that they would.

Which means that the argument against illegal immigration has nothing to do with the letter of the law.

And if it's such an amazingly important issue, don't the real sticking points need to be identified and not hidden away with legal trickery?  After all, you can't win an argument if you don't really know *WHY* you have taken the position you have.

Gosh, I wish I was as smart as you think you are. 

As far as your silly 'speeders that break the law, then the law changes and they aren't law-breakers' argument - you are conveniently ignoring the fact that those speeders had to pay fines and maybe get points on their driver's licenses.  They paid for it. 

So they change the law tomorrow - then they can drive over 65 tomorrow!

As far as people entering the country illegally - that is a different infraction than speeding.  (But you're smart enough to already know that, aren't you?)
http://www.endillegalimmigration.com/Illegal_Immigration_Laws/index.shtml

"The first time an illegal immigrant is caught in the US it is a misdemeanor civil offense. This is because we want to be able to quickly return illegal aliens to Mexico or Canada, when they are caught at the border without the rigors of a jury trial."

"After the first offense, being caught a second time is a felony!"

.......

"Illegal Aliens Deported are ineligible for readmission to US Under Current Laws"


I would strongly advise everyone to go to that site and read what the law actually is.  I did not know myself. 

It makes sense that we would want to know the background and health records of people we let into our country....for the safety and well-being of our citizens.  This is the responsibility of our Federal Gov't, and they have failed us mightily.

Those here that think it's OK to just "change the law" and make it all cozy - you're just plain wrong.  You think it is a clever ploy to gain votes - but those people will NEVER vote for the Republicans.  To say that they are doing jobs Americans won't do - is an abomination!  When you are paying Americans welfare payments because they say they can't find a job - and you are having to import poor third-world people in the country to pick lettuce.  Shameful.

I've said all I'm going to say about it. 

Oh, one more thing - Godzilla - you keep hinting that "the law" isn't the REAL reason we are against illegal immigration and amnesty.  Just what is it you are trying to say - that we're RACISTS?  Against "brown-skinned" people?  You need to be able to back up something like that - or you're no better than a low-information-liberal. 

[Godzilla]

Gosh, I wish I was as smart as you think you are. 

As far as your silly 'speeders that break the law, then the law changes and they aren't law-breakers' argument - you are conveniently ignoring the fact that those speeders had to pay fines and maybe get points on their driver's licenses.  They paid for it. 

So they change the law tomorrow - then they can drive over 65 tomorrow!

As far as people entering the country illegally - that is a different infraction than speeding.  (But you're smart enough to already know that, aren't you?)
http://www.endillegalimmigration.com/Illegal_Immigration_Laws/index.shtml

"The first time an illegal immigrant is caught in the US it is a misdemeanor civil offense. This is because we want to be able to quickly return illegal aliens to Mexico or Canada, when they are caught at the border without the rigors of a jury trial."

"After the first offense, being caught a second time is a felony!"

.......

"Illegal Aliens Deported are ineligible for readmission to US Under Current Laws"


I would strongly advise everyone to go to that site and read what the law actually is.  I did not know myself. 

It makes sense that we would want to know the background and health records of people we let into our country....for the safety and well-being of our citizens.  This is the responsibility of our Federal Gov't, and they have failed us mightily.

Those here that think it's OK to just "change the law" and make it all cozy - you're just plain wrong.  You think it is a clever ploy to gain votes - but those people will NEVER vote for the Republicans.  To say that they are doing jobs Americans won't do - is an abomination!  When you are paying Americans welfare payments because they say they can't find a job - and you are having to import poor third-world people in the country to pick lettuce.  Shameful.

I've said all I'm going to say about it. 

Oh, one more thing - Godzilla - you keep hinting that "the law" isn't the REAL reason we are against illegal immigration and amnesty.  Just what is it you are trying to say - that we're RACISTS?  Against "brown-skinned" people?  You need to be able to back up something like that - or you're no better than a low-information-liberal. 

I'm saying that one can't win an argument, or win supporters for a position, if one doesn't know what it is they are arguing *FOR*.

If you are arguing for people to follow the law, then what is your argument if the law changes?  There is none.

This whole exercise is to get people to find reasons to deal with illegals that *CAN'T* be easily shot down.  That's how you win voters towards your point of view.  You don't whine about difficult it is.

As for the speeders, that was an analogy raised by Once-Ler.

[Godzilla]

I can't speak for others but I know EXACTLY what the problem is and I'm FED UP with it!  The problem is that the inside the beltway bastards (both parties)  have sold and continue to sell us out for campaign cash from their REAL masters on K street!

I'd agree with that.

Which is why I was so amazed to see people cheering when the Supreme Court ruled, in essence, that money = speech... overturning the campaign-finance law.  That opened the floodgates for unlimited cash from those that have it.

[Bigun]

I'd agree with that.

Which is why I was so amazed to see people cheering when the Supreme Court ruled, in essence, that money = speech... overturning the campaign-finance law.  That opened the floodgates for unlimited cash from those that have it.

We were, and are, cheering because the table has been somewhat more leveled than it previously was.

[olde north church]

Trump is the guy daughters date after being told not to by the parents.  The more the parents want to break them up, the more the daughter sees him.

[Luis Gonzalez]

Trump is the guy daughters date after being told not to by the parents.  The more the parents want to break them up, the more the daughter sees him.

I've been married three times.

My parents were right all three times.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Same with the great wall of Mexico.

LOL

[Formerly Once-Ler]

 

As far as your silly 'speeders that break the law, then the law changes and they aren't law-breakers' argument - you are conveniently ignoring the fact that those speeders had to pay fines and maybe get points on their driver's licenses.  They paid for it.

Only if they get caught.  If The Rump is correct and there are 30 million illegals in the USA, I'd submit most of them are not getting caught, and/or not getting prosecuted. 

It makes sense that we would want to know the background and health records of people we let into our country....for the safety and well-being of our citizens.  This is the responsibility of our Federal Gov't, and they have failed us mightily.

It is possible that we have the health records of millions of illegals.  I've been told they are clogging up our emergency rooms.

Those here that think it's OK to just "change the law" and make it all cozy - you're just plain wrong.  You think it is a clever ploy to gain votes - but those people will NEVER vote for the Republicans.

I don't think it is a ploy.  I think it is the right thing to do for people who have worked here for 10 years, paid taxes, kept their nose clean, and made a better life for their families and communities.  To deport them would be an injustice in my eyes.  You don't have to agree, just understand that a lot of people agree with me and and they will protest mass deportations.

To say that they are doing jobs Americans won't do - is an abomination!  When you are paying Americans welfare payments because they say they can't find a job - and you are having to import poor third-world people in the country to pick lettuce.  Shameful.

Sometime those Americans are unemployed for a reason.  Many companies don't want a mother of seven who hasn't worked for 12 years and has to stay home often because her baby is sick, or an ex-con who murdered his co-workers, or the unmotivated 27 year old who lives with mom and dad and comes to work stoned all the time.

They want some one who is eager to work.  Shameful.

Oh, one more thing - Godzilla - you keep hinting that "the law" isn't the REAL reason we are against illegal immigration and amnesty.  Just what is it you are trying to say - that we're RACISTS?  Against "brown-skinned" people?  You need to be able to back up something like that - or you're no better than a low-information-liberal. 

Nobody is hinting that you or anyone on this board is racist.  In fact I know your not racist.  Because you're pissed off that you think it was implied. 

But can it be said that illegal immigration is a big issue for racists?  I would never recommend someone spend time at stormfront or davidduke's website but you will find they are very excited about Trump and his immigration plan.  What does that translate into votes?  I dunno, but in a 17 candidate race, every vote is important.