Author Topic: Boy, was I wrong about Donald Trump. Here’s why...By Chris Cillizza  (Read 12501 times)

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bkepley

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Re: Boy, was I wrong about Donald Trump. Here’s why...By Chris Cillizza
« Reply #25 on: August 05, 2015, 01:23:57 am »
Can't say I have.  Mostly Friedman and Buckley.   :shrug:

If I could I would buy it for you then I think we would understand each other.

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Re: Boy, was I wrong about Donald Trump. Here’s why...By Chris Cillizza
« Reply #26 on: August 05, 2015, 01:53:19 am »
If I could I would buy it for you then I think we would understand each other.

I'll look for it.    :beer:
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

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bkepley

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Re: Boy, was I wrong about Donald Trump. Here’s why...By Chris Cillizza
« Reply #27 on: August 05, 2015, 02:00:57 am »
I'll look for it.    :beer:

Ok ...not saying it is truth...just explains why I hate populists I think and is one of the very first books to explore American conservatism.

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Boy, was I wrong about Donald Trump. Here’s why...By Chris Cillizza
« Reply #28 on: August 05, 2015, 02:30:00 am »
Can't say I have.  Mostly Friedman and Buckley.   :shrug:

Friedman, Buckley and Trump.

It's like one of those "what doesn't belong here?" puzzles.
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, i have others." - Groucho Marx

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Boy, was I wrong about Donald Trump. Here’s why...By Chris Cillizza
« Reply #29 on: August 05, 2015, 02:37:11 am »
Don't you think a brilliant idea at this time would be for Jon Stewart to run on the Dem side?


The idea that we may be about to tell the entire world that those two are the best that the nation that gave us Jefferson, Washington, Lincoln and Reagan has to offer is mind-boggling.
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, i have others." - Groucho Marx

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Boy, was I wrong about Donald Trump. Here’s why...By Chris Cillizza
« Reply #30 on: August 05, 2015, 02:38:33 am »
Conservative, liberal, GOP, dem. Trump seems to be defying the lines and at this time it's not about that for many voters. He may split every group and subgroup for the win

He loses big against Hillary, Sanders and Biden, and Biden isn't even running.
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, i have others." - Groucho Marx

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Boy, was I wrong about Donald Trump. Here’s why...By Chris Cillizza
« Reply #31 on: August 05, 2015, 02:39:32 am »
Yeah.  Talk about the potential for rude awakenings.

I'm voting for Trump in the primaries.
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, i have others." - Groucho Marx

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Re: Boy, was I wrong about Donald Trump. Here’s why...By Chris Cillizza
« Reply #32 on: August 05, 2015, 02:42:22 am »
Friedman, Buckley and Trump.

It's like one of those "what doesn't belong here?" puzzles.

LOL!   Ain't that the truth? 

"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

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Re: Boy, was I wrong about Donald Trump. Here’s why...By Chris Cillizza
« Reply #33 on: August 05, 2015, 02:49:10 am »
Friedman, Buckley and Trump.

It's like one of those "what doesn't belong here?" puzzles.

It is mind numbing.
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Offline xfreeper

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Re: Boy, was I wrong about Donald Trump. Here’s why...By Chris Cillizza
« Reply #34 on: August 05, 2015, 03:06:21 am »
He loses big against Hillary, Sanders and Biden, and Biden isn't even running.

I'd take that bet in a heartbeat

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Re: Boy, was I wrong about Donald Trump. Here’s why...By Chris Cillizza
« Reply #35 on: August 05, 2015, 04:06:17 am »
Aligncare: He's the un-politician and pubbies like that aspect of his entry in this race. The rest of the field are career pols. Ewe! Icky

Music Lady: Except Carson.

Don't forget Carly.
Members of the anti-Trump cabal: Now that Mr Trump has sewn up the nomination, I want you to know I feel your pain.

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Re: Boy, was I wrong about Donald Trump. Here’s why...By Chris Cillizza
« Reply #36 on: August 05, 2015, 04:26:58 am »
He loses big against Hillary, Sanders and Biden, and Biden isn't even running.

Yes, but I will say that if Trump can get a majority of GOP primary voters on board, given the negatives he had to start with, I wouldn't underestimate him against any other opposition.  I am not saying he will win the primary, mind you, but I think his greatest challenge is the primary.  After that, I think with control of the party apparatus and all that goes with it, he'll have unstoppable momentum going into the general election.  This is particularly true if Hillary or Biden is atop the Dem ticket.

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Boy, was I wrong about Donald Trump. Here’s why...By Chris Cillizza
« Reply #37 on: August 05, 2015, 04:43:23 am »
A mover and shaker how?  Do you actually believe Trump knows anything of cares anything about conservatism?
Even if he doesn't use left-right, liberal-conservative labels, there is an incredible opportunity to really start firing people at the higher levels.

There used to be something like 800 political appointees available to each President, to make at the top of agencies. Many Presidents probably don't replace all 800.

Another area would be budgeting. Change the way fedgov does budgets.

"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Boy, was I wrong about Donald Trump. Here’s why...By Chris Cillizza
« Reply #38 on: August 05, 2015, 04:48:13 am »
Yes, but I will say that if Trump can get a majority of GOP primary voters on board, given the negatives he had to start with, I wouldn't underestimate him against any other opposition.  I am not saying he will win the primary, mind you, but I think his greatest challenge is the primary.  After that, I think with control of the party apparatus and all that goes with it, he'll have unstoppable momentum going into the general election.  This is particularly true if Hillary or Biden is atop the Dem ticket.

From Townhall.com 7/30/15:

Donald Trump may be surging in GOP polls, but according to a new Quinnipiac poll, he is the worst performing Republican in the general election. He even loses to one of the weaker Democratic candidates: the socialist, Bernie Sanders.

The new poll shows Trump losing to Hillary Clinton, the probable Democratic nominee, 48 to 36. That's a 12-point loss to a woman the American people do not trust. We knew from prior polling data that Americans don't trust Hillary — but interestingly, this new poll shows that Trump's trust levels are just as low as hers. Fifty-eight percent of Americans distrust Donald Trump, while 57 percent distrust Hillary.

Trump also loses to Bernie Sanders 45 to 37 — an eight-point differential. He also loses to Joe Biden (who hasn't declared a candidacy) by 12 points — 49 to 37. Trump may be surging in GOP quarters, but he would clearly be a dead loss in a general election. He doesn't beat a single Democrat in this poll.

Let's also mention that Trump lost to Sanders by 21 points in another recent national poll.

Trump's low numbers against Democrats are highly telling in part because other Republicans do quite well by comparison. Scott Walker beats Bernie Sanders by five points, ties Joe Biden, and trails Hillary by one point. Jeb Bush also beats Sanders by five points, trails Joe Biden by one, and beats Hillary by one.

These results, along with the extensive swing-state polls from last week, put both Scott Walker and Jeb Bush in strong positions going forward. Walker led Clinton by nine points in Colorado, three points in Virginia, and eight points in Iowa. He's also in second place among GOP voters, and he looks poised to win the Iowa caucus as the current front-runner in that state. Trump's surge has certainly challenged Walker in Iowa, but Trump still trails him by two. If Trump's support has maxed out at this point (and it likely has), Walker's lead will likely only improve in Iowa.

Bush has shored up much of the moderate GOP vote, though that support is now being contested by John Kasich, the newest of the GOP candidates. Kasich claimed five percent of the GOP vote in the recent nationwide poll, and Bush — who last week received 15 percent support — has now fallen to 10 percent.

The Trump surge has largely skewed our understanding of how conservatives see the other Republican candidates. His rise has caused support for the other prominent conservatives to dry up — particularly for Ted Cruz, Ben Carson and Marco Rubio. Trump is likely also stealing support from the still-prominent Scott Walker. The numbers are still very much in flux, and we'll have to wait until the debate season (which starts August 6) to see how they begin to shake out. If Trump declines, we'll get a better picture of what conservatives actually think about the other candidates. They are arguably the best Republican field since 1980, and this is an election that Republicans can win.

If there's any candidate who can become the anti-Trump, it will probably have to be a governor — and it is likely Scott Walker. It will have to be a governor because the senators in this race are all in some way tainted by Washington, and Trump is drawing most of his support from anti-Washington frustration. Walker possesses all the characteristics of a true reformer: he's foreign to Washington, has a stellar track record in Wisconsin (a potential swing state), and brings youthful energy. There are, of course, others who can fill those shoes: Rick Perry, John Kasich, Bobby Jindal — successful governors each in their own right. We'll just have wait and see what the debates hold.
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, i have others." - Groucho Marx

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Re: Boy, was I wrong about Donald Trump. Here’s why...By Chris Cillizza
« Reply #39 on: August 05, 2015, 11:33:28 am »
From Townhall.com 7/30/15:

Donald Trump may be surging in GOP polls, but according to a new Quinnipiac poll, he is the worst performing Republican in the general election.

But, as this article points out, Trump had the worst negatives with Republicans a short time ago and somehow turned that into a juggernaut.  There is no reason to believe that, assuming he could win the GOP primary, he couldn't also pull off a win against Hillary or Biden.  Plus, he is the only candidate in the Republican field who could match Hillary dollar for dollar if he wanted to.

The whole point of the posted article is that Trump is overcoming the traditional view that high negatives in politics necessarily translate to high likelihood of failure.

Apparently, we have reached an era in American politics in which audacity is the most rewarded attribute a candidate can have.  If that is the case, then there are very few people in the country who could compete with Trump.

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Re: Boy, was I wrong about Donald Trump. Here’s why...By Chris Cillizza
« Reply #40 on: August 05, 2015, 11:44:04 am »
But, as this article points out, Trump had the worst negatives with Republicans a short time ago and somehow turned that into a juggernaut.  There is no reason to believe that, assuming he could win the GOP primary, he couldn't also pull off a win against Hillary or Biden.  Plus, he is the only candidate in the Republican field who could match Hillary dollar for dollar if he wanted to.

The whole point of the posted article is that Trump is overcoming the traditional view that high negatives in politics necessarily translate to high likelihood of failure.

Apparently, we have reached an era in American politics in which audacity is the most rewarded attribute a candidate can have.  If that is the case, then there are very few people in the country who could compete with Trump.

Here's a great article/essay that further explains why Donald Trump could win...even as a 3rd party candidate.

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2015/08/hard_truth_for_the_gop_from_its_base.html   posted in Opinion Category.
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

Offline aligncare

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Re: Boy, was I wrong about Donald Trump. Here’s why...By Chris Cillizza
« Reply #41 on: August 05, 2015, 12:50:03 pm »
Aligncare: He's the un-politician and pubbies like that aspect of his entry in this race. The rest of the field are career pols. Ewe! Icky

Music Lady: Except Carson.

Don't forget Carly.

Yes, certainly. My oversight. But, the fact is that Trump and the large number of entries into the race have obscured Carson and Fiorina, both good people without any breakout potential, however.

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Boy, was I wrong about Donald Trump. Here’s why...By Chris Cillizza
« Reply #42 on: August 05, 2015, 12:59:20 pm »
But, as this article points out, Trump had the worst negatives with Republicans a short time ago and somehow turned that into a juggernaut.  There is no reason to believe that, assuming he could win the GOP primary, he couldn't also pull off a win against Hillary or Biden.  Plus, he is the only candidate in the Republican field who could match Hillary dollar for dollar if he wanted to.

The whole point of the posted article is that Trump is overcoming the traditional view that high negatives in politics necessarily translate to high likelihood of failure.

Apparently, we have reached an era in American politics in which audacity is the most rewarded attribute a candidate can have.  If that is the case, then there are very few people in the country who could compete with Trump.

Thirty percent of Republicans say that they will absolutely will not vote for him and nearly sixty percent of all voters say the same.

Twenty something percent approval/support in the GOP does not overcome either one of those numbers.
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, i have others." - Groucho Marx

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Re: Boy, was I wrong about Donald Trump. Here’s why...By Chris Cillizza
« Reply #43 on: August 05, 2015, 01:12:01 pm »
Thirty percent of Republicans say that they will absolutely will not vote for him and nearly sixty percent of all voters say the same.

Twenty something percent approval/support in the GOP does not overcome either one of those numbers.

I'll go on record here, and bet you a dollar, Luis, that the GOP ticket is going to be Trump/Cruz. (even though my initial favorite was Walker/Rubio.

And, I'll bet you another dollar that they'll win next November.   Even should they go 3rd party.

Cruz has been maligned by the GOP as much as Trump as been dissed by the GOPe, so it's not a stretch to see Cruz accept his place on the ticket.

Trump has grabbed the ONE issue that will bring a healthy, sufficient cross-over over Democrat voters.  Illegal immigration.

It's time for everybody to get on board and admit that Trump is no joke.

PS:  O'Reilly joked with Trump last night that he had to go through a gauntlet of physical and written inspection/searches before he was allowed to even see him to do the interview.   That's good to know.   I'm worried about his well-being.  The Left is scared poop-less of him and don't want to lose everything Obama has advanced.


edit to add:  of course I could be wrong.  I swore Romney was going to win by a Reagan-type landslide.    :laugh:
« Last Edit: August 05, 2015, 01:13:29 pm by DCPatriot »
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"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

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Re: Boy, was I wrong about Donald Trump. Here’s why...By Chris Cillizza
« Reply #44 on: August 05, 2015, 01:15:57 pm »
Thirty percent of Republicans say that they will absolutely will not vote for him and nearly sixty percent of all voters say the same.

Twenty something percent approval/support in the GOP does not overcome either one of those numbers.

Come on....polls are completely worthless, when the subject is anything Republican.  Especially 1-1/2 years out.  Populism rules today.  And the American people are pi$$ed off.
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

bkepley

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Re: Boy, was I wrong about Donald Trump. Here’s why...By Chris Cillizza
« Reply #45 on: August 05, 2015, 01:21:46 pm »
I'll go on record here, and bet you a dollar, Luis, that the GOP ticket is going to be Trump/Cruz. (even though my initial favorite was Walker/Rubio.

And, I'll bet you another dollar that they'll win next November.   Even should they go 3rd party.

Cruz has been maligned by the GOP as much as Trump as been dissed by the GOPe, so it's not a stretch to see Cruz accept his place on the ticket.

Trump has grabbed the ONE issue that will bring a healthy, sufficient cross-over over Democrat voters.  Illegal immigration.

It's time for everybody to get on board and admit that Trump is no joke.

PS:  O'Reilly joked with Trump last night that he had to go through a gauntlet of physical and written inspection/searches before he was allowed to even see him to do the interview.   That's good to know.   I'm worried about his well-being.  The Left is scared poop-less of him and don't want to lose everything Obama has advanced.


edit to add:  of course I could be wrong.  I swore Romney was going to win by a Reagan-type landslide.    :laugh:

Just FYI, to appeal to the independents Trump needs to come up with good reasons to believe he can improve the economy.  Not just blustering sound-bytes either in my opinion.

Overall, voters say the economy is the most important issue facing the country (30 percent).  Next it’s terrorism and health care (11 percent each). Less than one voter in 10 says the top problem is immigration (7 percent), foreign policy (7 percent), the federal deficit (7 percent), race relations (5 percent), climate change (5 percent), gay marriage (3 percent), taxes (3 percent) and abortion (2 percent).

bkepley

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Re: Boy, was I wrong about Donald Trump. Here’s why...By Chris Cillizza
« Reply #46 on: August 05, 2015, 01:23:30 pm »
Come on....polls are completely worthless, when the subject is anything Republican.  Especially 1-1/2 years out.  Populism rules today.  And the American people are pi$$ed off.

So far the appears to be true only of the GOP.

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Re: Boy, was I wrong about Donald Trump. Here’s why...By Chris Cillizza
« Reply #47 on: August 05, 2015, 01:25:30 pm »
Just FYI, to appeal to the independents Trump needs to come up with good reasons to believe he can improve the economy.  Not just blustering sound-bytes either in my opinion.

Overall, voters say the economy is the most important issue facing the country (30 percent).  Next it’s terrorism and health care (11 percent each). Less than one voter in 10 says the top problem is immigration (7 percent), foreign policy (7 percent), the federal deficit (7 percent), race relations (5 percent), climate change (5 percent), gay marriage (3 percent), taxes (3 percent) and abortion (2 percent).

Uh.....perhaps you haven't seen what's on Trump's ever present-baseball cap?   :whistle:

"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

bkepley

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Re: Boy, was I wrong about Donald Trump. Here’s why...By Chris Cillizza
« Reply #48 on: August 05, 2015, 01:28:44 pm »
Uh.....perhaps you haven't seen what's on Trump's ever present-baseball cap?   :whistle:

No what's it say?  "It's the economy stupid"?

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Re: Boy, was I wrong about Donald Trump. Here’s why...By Chris Cillizza
« Reply #49 on: August 05, 2015, 01:35:07 pm »
No what's it say?  "It's the economy stupid"?

No...but that worked for Bubba, didn't it?    :whistle:
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald