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Author Topic: Rand Paul: I’m the Only GOP Candidate Who Doesn’t Want to ‘Blow Up the World’  (Read 8862 times)

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Offline Bigun

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Re: Rand Paul: I’m the Only GOP Candidate Who Doesn’t Want to ‘Blow Up the World’
« Reply #25 on: August 04, 2015, 01:35:42 am »
Quote from: Dexter on August 04, 2015, 01:29:51 am
Stopping mullahs in Iran is not going to end extremism in the Middle East. ISIS wouldn't even be a threat if they didn't have USA made weapons and armor.

Nothing is ever going to do anything 100% but dealing with the Mullah regime in Iran will put a big dent in the ability of troublmakers to function in that region for a LONG time to come!
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"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
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Offline Dexter

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Re: Rand Paul: I’m the Only GOP Candidate Who Doesn’t Want to ‘Blow Up the World’
« Reply #26 on: August 04, 2015, 01:36:24 am »
Quote from: Oceander on August 04, 2015, 01:30:17 am

Precisely.

Not ignoring it didn't fix the problem either. This is not a problem we can solve with guns.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2015, 01:52:22 am by Dexter »
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Offline Dexter

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Re: Rand Paul: I’m the Only GOP Candidate Who Doesn’t Want to ‘Blow Up the World’
« Reply #27 on: August 04, 2015, 01:40:56 am »
Quote from: Bigun on August 04, 2015, 01:35:42 am
Nothing is ever going to do anything 100% but dealing with the Mullah regime in Iran will put a big dent in the ability of troublmakers to function in that region for a LONG time to come!

Why did we invade Afghanistan and then Iraq if Iran is the root of the problem?
« Last Edit: August 04, 2015, 01:42:24 am by Dexter »
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Offline Bigun

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Re: Rand Paul: I’m the Only GOP Candidate Who Doesn’t Want to ‘Blow Up the World’
« Reply #28 on: August 04, 2015, 01:52:25 am »
Quote from: Dexter on August 04, 2015, 01:40:56 am
Why did we invade Afghanistan and then Iraq if Iran is the root of the problem?

A POLITICAL decision based on where OBL was supposed to be hiding at the time. 


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"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Dexter

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Re: Rand Paul: I’m the Only GOP Candidate Who Doesn’t Want to ‘Blow Up the World’
« Reply #29 on: August 04, 2015, 01:54:12 am »
Quote from: Bigun on August 04, 2015, 01:52:25 am
A POLITICAL decision based on where OBL was supposed to be hiding at the time.

Why even bother with Bin Laden if Iran is the source of the problem that caused 9/11? Also, what about Iraq? What did invading Iraq achieve?
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Re: Rand Paul: I’m the Only GOP Candidate Who Doesn’t Want to ‘Blow Up the World’
« Reply #30 on: August 04, 2015, 01:54:41 am »
Quote from: Bigun on August 04, 2015, 01:52:25 am
A POLITICAL decision based on where OBL was supposed to be hiding at the time.

Also, to structure a way to keep closer tabs on a nuclear Pakistan and India.
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Offline Bigun

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Re: Rand Paul: I’m the Only GOP Candidate Who Doesn’t Want to ‘Blow Up the World’
« Reply #31 on: August 04, 2015, 01:59:36 am »
Quote from: Dexter on August 04, 2015, 01:54:12 am
Why even bother with Bin Laden if Iran is the source of the problem that caused 9/11? Also, what about Iraq? What did invading Iraq achieve?

It achieved the freedom of thirty million people for a while!  Until the Iranian agent in the White House was elected!
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"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Dexter

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Re: Rand Paul: I’m the Only GOP Candidate Who Doesn’t Want to ‘Blow Up the World’
« Reply #32 on: August 04, 2015, 02:08:37 am »
Quote from: Bigun on August 04, 2015, 01:59:36 am
It achieved the freedom of thirty million people for a while!  Until the Iranian agent in the White House was elected!

The decision to withdraw our troops did not create ISIS. Billions of dollars worth of USA made weapons and armor created ISIS. You still didn't answer my question about Iran. Why bother with anything else if they are the source of the problem?
« Last Edit: August 04, 2015, 02:09:08 am by Dexter »
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Offline Bigun

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Re: Rand Paul: I’m the Only GOP Candidate Who Doesn’t Want to ‘Blow Up the World’
« Reply #33 on: August 04, 2015, 02:13:20 am »
Quote from: Dexter on August 04, 2015, 02:08:37 am
The decision to withdraw our troops did not create ISIS. Billions of dollars worth of USA made weapons and armor created ISIS. You still didn't answer my question about Iran. Why bother with anything else if they are the source of the problem?

No! The decision  by this administration to run guns to Syrian Rebels out of Benghazi created ISIS!
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"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

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Re: Rand Paul: I’m the Only GOP Candidate Who Doesn’t Want to ‘Blow Up the World’
« Reply #34 on: August 04, 2015, 02:13:59 am »
Quote from: Dexter on August 04, 2015, 02:08:37 am
The decision to withdraw our troops did not create ISIS. Billions of dollars worth of USA made weapons and armor created ISIS. You still didn't answer my question about Iran. Why bother with anything else if they are the source of the problem?

Because Saddam already once had attempted to control the flow of oil by grabbing Kuwait's production.  We feared that he would use oil as a weapon in the form of sanctions toward the West and specifically the USA.

Also, by successfully building a democratic republic next door to Iran would give the Iranian People some courage to rise up and depose the Ayatollahs.

And as you said earlier, there's nothing like a military conflict to jump start a stagnant economy, coming out of 9-11.
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"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

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Oceander

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Re: Rand Paul: I’m the Only GOP Candidate Who Doesn’t Want to ‘Blow Up the World’
« Reply #35 on: August 04, 2015, 02:14:41 am »
Quote from: Dexter on August 04, 2015, 02:08:37 am
The decision to withdraw our troops did not create ISIS. Billions of dollars worth of USA made weapons and armor created ISIS. You still didn't answer my question about Iran. Why bother with anything else if they are the source of the problem?


Did the US create Islam?  Did the US manufacture the prophet muhammed?  Did the US come up with the radicalized, violent version of Islam ISIS adheres to?

If not, then the US did not create ISIS.
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Offline Bigun

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Re: Rand Paul: I’m the Only GOP Candidate Who Doesn’t Want to ‘Blow Up the World’
« Reply #36 on: August 04, 2015, 02:17:09 am »
Quote from: Dexter on August 04, 2015, 02:08:37 am
The decision to withdraw our troops did not create ISIS. Billions of dollars worth of USA made weapons and armor created ISIS. You still didn't answer my question about Iran. Why bother with anything else if they are the source of the problem?

Because there is not the political will to do what is needed! The Green Revolution presented an EXCELLENT opportunity to have the Iranian people themselves take out the Mullah regime in Iran but of course the Iranian agent in the White House would have nothing to do with that!
 
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"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

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Re: Rand Paul: I’m the Only GOP Candidate Who Doesn’t Want to ‘Blow Up the World’
« Reply #37 on: August 04, 2015, 02:19:27 am »
Quote from: Oceander on August 04, 2015, 02:14:41 am

Did the US create Islam?  Did the US manufacture the prophet muhammed?  Did the US come up with the radicalized, violent version of Islam ISIS adheres to?

If not, then the US did not create ISIS.

Gimme a break.

ISIS is Al Qaeda.  We give birth to ISIS straight out of Benghazi at the so-called "Consulate"...[read =arms depot warehouse].

It was Obama and Hillary's "plan B", after the unsuccessful takeover of Egypt by the Muslim Brotherhood.
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"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

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"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

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Re: Rand Paul: I’m the Only GOP Candidate Who Doesn’t Want to ‘Blow Up the World’
« Reply #38 on: August 04, 2015, 02:21:02 am »
Quote from: DCPatriot on August 04, 2015, 02:19:27 am
Gimme a break.

ISIS is Al Qaeda.  We give birth to ISIS straight out of Benghazi at the so-called "Consulate"...[read =arms depot warehouse].

It was Obama and Hillary's "plan B", after the unsuccessful takeover of Egypt by the Muslim Brotherhood.


Gimme a break.  What drives those groups is ideology - of the home-brew sort.
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Offline Bigun

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Re: Rand Paul: I’m the Only GOP Candidate Who Doesn’t Want to ‘Blow Up the World’
« Reply #39 on: August 04, 2015, 02:32:00 am »
Quote from: Oceander on August 04, 2015, 02:21:02 am

Gimme a break.  What drives those groups is ideology - of the home-brew sort.

Ideology alone doesn't make for a very effective force!
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"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Fishrrman

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Re: Rand Paul: I’m the Only GOP Candidate Who Doesn’t Want to ‘Blow Up the World’
« Reply #40 on: August 04, 2015, 02:36:41 am »
Dexter wrote:
[[ I still have yet to hear a reasonable strategy for stopping extremism in the Middle East. ]]

The struggle in which we are engaged has less to do at its core with "stopping extremism in the Middle East" and much to do with stopping something else...
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Offline Dexter

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Re: Rand Paul: I’m the Only GOP Candidate Who Doesn’t Want to ‘Blow Up the World’
« Reply #41 on: August 04, 2015, 02:37:11 am »
Quote from: Bigun on August 04, 2015, 02:32:00 am
Ideology alone doesn't make for a very effective force!

 :thumbsup:
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Offline Fishrrman

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Re: Rand Paul: I’m the Only GOP Candidate Who Doesn’t Want to ‘Blow Up the World’
« Reply #42 on: August 04, 2015, 02:38:18 am »
Dexter wrote:
[[ This is not a problem we can solve with guns. ]]

Kinda agree with ya on that.

It's going to take a much bigger "bang" ...!
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Offline Dexter

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Re: Rand Paul: I’m the Only GOP Candidate Who Doesn’t Want to ‘Blow Up the World’
« Reply #43 on: August 04, 2015, 02:41:15 am »
Quote from: Fishrrman on August 04, 2015, 02:38:18 am
Dexter wrote:
[[ This is not a problem we can solve with guns. ]]

Kinda agree with ya on that.

It's going to take a much bigger "bang" ...!

Ah, yes. Kill everybody; that will solve this problem.
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Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Rand Paul: I’m the Only GOP Candidate Who Doesn’t Want to ‘Blow Up the World’
« Reply #44 on: August 04, 2015, 03:44:23 am »
Quote from: Dexter on August 04, 2015, 02:41:15 am
Ah, yes. Kill everybody; that will solve this problem.
In WWII the  Allies faced strong forces from Germany and Japan, and eventually defeated them by killing enough military and civilian people, until they realized we could and would go on killing those on their side.

When they surrendered unconditionally we did not need  to "Kill everybody" but rather just enough to make it stop.

Now 14 years after 9/11/2001, and we have never had the will to do everything and anything necessary to bring it to an early end. Instead we opted for half-measures, hoping it would solve itself.

But it is futile to be talking now, when the urgency has waned. I think we should retreat from the muslim world, to as great an extent as possible. But in so doing, we should issue a warning. Mess with us, at your peril.
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Offline Dexter

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Re: Rand Paul: I’m the Only GOP Candidate Who Doesn’t Want to ‘Blow Up the World’
« Reply #45 on: August 04, 2015, 04:10:29 am »
Quote from: truth_seeker on August 04, 2015, 03:44:23 am
I think we should retreat from the muslim world, to as great an extent as possible.

Agreed.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2015, 04:52:07 am by Dexter »
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Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: Rand Paul: I’m the Only GOP Candidate Who Doesn’t Want to ‘Blow Up the World’
« Reply #46 on: August 04, 2015, 05:00:00 am »
Quote from: libertybele on August 03, 2015, 10:11:52 pm
No one likes war and certainly no one wants the killing to continue or the blood and body parts to continue.  Smoking a peace pipe or a handshake with your enemy isn't going to do it.  We were attacked on 9-11 period.  Our current president, against the advice his military advisors, withdrew troops too early.  As a result we are witnessing the destabilization of the Middle East and the strong emergence of ISIS.  We cannot ignore that.  ISIS is in the U.S and Paul's idea of isolationism would leave us extremely vulnerable and would be a disaster for us. Then we have the Obama "nuke deal".  Who do you think is interested in blowing up who?

 goopo
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Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: Rand Paul: I’m the Only GOP Candidate Who Doesn’t Want to ‘Blow Up the World’
« Reply #47 on: August 04, 2015, 05:43:54 am »
Quote from: massadvj on August 03, 2015, 11:58:50 pm
Does anyone remember the party of Ike and Reagan?  The GOP was fundamentally a non-interventionist party.  Somewhere along the line we traded "Walk softly and carry a big stick" for "make shady deals with shady characters to such an extent that even the American people don't know what side our government is on.

I don't know much about Eisenhower, but I have read that he gave us the Domino Theory to justify a war in Vietnam. 
I also have read that Reagan sold arms to Iran for hostages, using proceeds to fund the Contras in violation of the Boland amendment really realy secret like.  He also covertly sold weapons to Iraq. 
http://www.nytimes.com/1992/01/26/world/us-secretly-gave-aid-to-iraq-early-in-its-war-against-iran.html

He also armed Afghanistan rebels who would later become the Taliban.

Other than that your argument is flawless.
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Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: Rand Paul: I’m the Only GOP Candidate Who Doesn’t Want to ‘Blow Up the World’
« Reply #48 on: August 04, 2015, 06:14:58 am »
I think there is no public support for war in Iran, so the next President will have to do it covertly like Reagan, or massage the evidence like Dubya.   I don't intend to disparage either men, as I think they were the 2 best Presidents of my lifetime.  I think Reagan's method of arming both sides, keep them killing each other and weakened, was brilliant.  And Dubya had both fronts( Iraq and Afghanistan) covered to invade Iran if there had been public sentiment.  I think that was the plan, unfortunately America's will to fight is not there.

I think the next President will have to do something about Iran.  I think the next President will be a Republican.  I think GOP Presidents do what needs to be done, based on the information they are privy to.

Should Rand Paul win he will have an easier time making the case for war with Iran to the American people as a reluctant warrior, than say Sen Cruz, who has an interventionist foreign policy view much closer to my own.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2015, 10:28:17 am by Once-Ler »
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Re: Rand Paul: I’m the Only GOP Candidate Who Doesn’t Want to ‘Blow Up the World’
« Reply #49 on: August 04, 2015, 07:10:11 am »
Quote from: Bigun on August 04, 2015, 02:32:00 am
Ideology alone doesn't make for a very effective force!

Sure seems that way when Conservatism is held up as the model.    :shrug:
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"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald
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