Author Topic: Has the United States advanced or retrograded in social practices over time?  (Read 1916 times)

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Offline Bigun

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I would say that it definitely has not but wish to throw this question open to all members of the forum for discussion.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Bigun

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Benjamin Franklin on Welfare

…I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means.—I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. In my youth I travelled much, and I observed in different countries, that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer. There is no country in the world [but England] where so many provisions are established for them; so many hospitals to receive them when they are sick or lame, founded and maintained by voluntary charities; so many alms-houses for the aged of both sexes, together with a solemn general law made by the rich to subject their estates to a heavy tax for the support of the poor. Under all these obligations, are our poor modest, humble, and thankful; and do they use their best endeavours to maintain themselves, and lighten our shoulders of this burthen?—On the contrary, I affirm that there is no country in the world in which the poor are more idle, dissolute, drunken, and insolent. The day you passed that act, you took away from before their eyes the greatest of all inducements to industry, frugality, and sobriety, by giving them a dependence on somewhat else than a careful accumulation during youth and health, for support in age or sickness. In short, you offered a premium for the encouragement of idleness, and you should not now wonder that it has had its effect in the increase of poverty. Repeal that law, and you will soon see a change in their manners. St. Monday, and St. Tuesday, will cease to be holidays. SIX days shalt thou labour, though one of the old commandments long treated as out of date, will again be looked upon as a respectable precept; industry will increase, and with it plenty among the lower people; their circumstances will mend, and more will be done for their happiness by inuring them to provide for themselves, than could be done by dividing all your estates among them.”

(Benjamin Franklin, "On the Price of Corn and the Management of the Poor" (1766), Writings (New York: Library of America, 1987), 587-88).

http://wjmi.blogspot.com/2012/07/benjamin-franklin-on-welfare.html
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline alicewonders

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Are you talking social practices such as social welfare - or social practices such as courtesy and common manners?

I think we have retrograded in BOTH.  Clearly, our welfare programs are not lifting people out of poverty - they never will.  They are designed to keep a large segment of society completely dependent, and therefore, under the control of the government.

Courtesy and manners are disappearing as well.  Our culture is low class and low information, being provocative is the way to get attention - which gives one fifteen minutes of fame and faux self-esteem. 

Don't tread on me.   8888madkitty

We told you Trump would win - bigly!

Offline Bigun

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Are you talking social practices such as social welfare - or social practices such as courtesy and common manners?

I think we have retrograded in BOTH.  Clearly, our welfare programs are not lifting people out of poverty - they never will.  They are designed to keep a large segment of society completely dependent, and therefore, under the control of the government.

Courtesy and manners are disappearing as well.  Our culture is low class and low information, being provocative is the way to get attention - which gives one fifteen minutes of fame and faux self-esteem.

Both! I would say that the topic would include general education as well.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline alicewonders

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Both! I would say that the topic would include general education as well.

Agree!  No doubt that the quality of education has retrograded to downright indoctrination in socialism and political correctness - just breeding future democrat voters, basically.

Don't tread on me.   8888madkitty

We told you Trump would win - bigly!

Offline Bigun

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Agree!  No doubt that the quality of education has retrograded to downright indoctrination in socialism and political correctness - just breeding future democrat voters, basically.

You'll get no argument from me on any of that.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien