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Pamela Geller: Heroine or Hateful Islamaphobe?
« on: May 07, 2015, 01:58:07 pm »
http://www.jewishworldreview.com/0515/colon050715.php3

Pamela Geller: Heroine or Hateful Islamaphobe?

image: http://jewishworldreview.com/0314/colon.jpg
Alicia Colon
By Alicia Colon

Published May 7, 2015

After the Garland, Texas shooting at an event sponsored by Pamela Geller's American Freedom Defense Initiative (AFDI), the knives came out by the MSM attacking Geller for provoking the attack by ISIS supporters. She held a Muhammad Art Contest to honor the murdered Charlie Hebdo cartoonists that was sure to provoke a jihadist attack. Ironically, the contest was held in the same center where a previous Muslim conference was held to suppress free speech. Geller made sure the event had tight security and a swat team was on site just in case. Aside from a minor injury to a security guard, the two heavily armed jihadists who also wore body armor were shot dead in seconds by a traffic cop's pistol. The only excuse I can find to explain the hostile reaction to Geller by the media is that they are all stupid cowards.

The media is stupid because they do not know the difference between hate speech and freedom of expression; cowards because they fear becoming targets for crazed jihadists. It was great for them to express support for free expression when the murderers were thousands of miles away in Paris but on our doorstep? Uh uh.

It was very disappointing to read comments from those who should know better that Geller's contest was pointless and meant nothing. Au contraire, Mon ami-it exposed two of ISIS' suicidal cell dwellers that fortunately were put down Texas-style before they could slaughter the sold-out crowd attending. We can't depend on this administration, the FBI or Homeland Security to protect us from ISIS and jihadists attacks. The FBI had one of the shooters under surveillance for years and sent out a memo concerning the Muhammad art contest that ruled out a likely attack on U.S. soil. Not surprising since the Obama administration has bent over backwards to make sure these agencies receive sensitive training to respect Islam.

Meanwhile Christians are being slaughtered all over the world and the media is silent. I'll tell you what hate speech is. It is the Ayatollah Khameini of Iran, presently in nuke talks with Obama, telling a crowd in Iran, "Of course yes, death to America." It is Hamas, the PLO and others, promising the destruction of Israel. It is everything that spills from the mouths of ISIS leaders such as the latest threat -"Our aim was the khanzeer Pamela Geller and to show her that we don't care what land she hides in or what sky shields her; we will send all our Lions to achieve her slaughter." It is Muslims in Paris shouting "Kill the Jews." It is Muslim imams in prisons preaching hate to recruit converts to Islam jihad.

I have come to believe that the left wing and the Democrat Party here in America have no idea what made this country great and why so many still try and come here. Chris Cuomo, CNN reporter and brother of NY Governor Andrew Cuomo, tweets that hate speech is not protected by the Constitution-and he's a lawyer?

Let's recap what these so-called constitutional experts consider 'hate speech.' Drawing cartoons of a religious figure is tantamount to provoking hate and carnage. Hmmm. I don't recall labeling Serrano's Crucifix in a jar of piss being called hate; or how about the dung covered painting of the Virgin Mary exhibited at the Brooklyn Museum of Art? On Broadway, the hit show is a comedy called The Book of Mormon but I don't recall any LDS protesters outside the theatre.

Isn't it amazing that the sensitivity of Muslims to any criticism of Islam has increased significantly since 9/11? There have been relatively few attacks on the Muslim community at large here in New York City which suffered so brutally from the homicidal radical Islamists. Instead, the city ended up allowing a Muslim community center to be built mere blocks away from Ground Zero. When I dared to suggest that it was wrong for the city to establish an Arab public school to be headed by a principal with Muslim Brotherhood connections, I received death threats and calls from CNN, the Times and other news outlets asking me to apologize for my 'hate speech.'

The cowardice of the media to confront legitimate hate is apparent on both the left and the right. It was refreshing however, to watch Fox News's Megyn Kelly shoot down a guest and the host on the O'Reilly Factor for not recognizing the importance of the First Amendment. May I remind you?

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

In other words, Muslims could have protested peaceably outside the conference center but no. Sending in an assault team is par for the course as they did in Paris except that Texas is anything but a zero tolerance gun-free zone. Hooray for Texas.

The United States of America is a beacon of hope for freedom of speech and expression, or at least, it used to be. Is it turning into Europe where Dutch politician Geert Wilders has been under police guards since he advocated a moratorium on Muslim immigration after the blatant daytime murder of filmmaker Theo Van Gogh by a jihadist? When I wrote a column about Wilders, the death threats from Europe I received were too disgusting to repeat. Ayaan Hirsi Ali dares to speak against female genital mutilation and is a constant target for death from Sharia law advocates. I wrote about her as well and- bam, hate mail and threats.

There is no question in my mind that the answer to my headline is that Pamela Geller is a Heroine who has more cojones than anyone in this administration and the mainstream media. If you don't understand that, you're part of the problem.

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Offline aligncare

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Re: Pamela Geller: Heroine or Hateful Islamaphobe?
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2015, 02:12:29 pm »
 :thumbsup:

A reality-based analysis of the patriot Pamela Geller, and the media pipsqueaks nipping at her pumps.

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Pamela Geller: Heroine or Hateful Islamaphobe?
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2015, 03:29:20 pm »
Billy Graham was asked about this last week and his response made me think that there are two main lines of opinion on this, and that they are both correct.

Graham said that it was wrong to mock or insult a person's religion on purpose, and that he didn't like it when people deliberately insulted his Lord and Savior and that while he knew that Jesus was Lord and Savior he understood how others who had not come to Him would feel the same way as he did about their beliefs.

He blamed it all on the death of respect and civility.

I get what Graham said, however Graham was addressing the question of whether or not Geller was right in doing what she did and not whether she had a right to do it.

She has every right to do it and no one has a right to try and kill her for doing it. However I agree with Graham on the idea that it is wrong to do it as a matter of general principle. Certainly it is as wrong to do it as it is putting a crucifix in a jar of urine or defacing an American flag.

So I think Geller was wrong in doing what she did but I also know that she has every right to do it, and I'll defend her right to do it, just as I think that the guy who put the crucifix in the jar of urine was wrong in doing that but I'll equally defend his right to do it.
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, i have others." - Groucho Marx

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Pamela Geller: Heroine or Hateful Islamaphobe?
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2015, 03:43:10 pm »

So I think Geller was wrong in doing what she did but I also know that she has every right to do it, and I'll defend her right to do it, just as I think that the guy who put the crucifix in the jar of urine was wrong in doing that but I'll equally defend his right to do it.

Agreed. The difference between Americans and far too may muslims is their apparent inability to think rationally.

They just crawled out of the desert tents a few generations. They did so because of oil, not any virtue of their so called civilizations.
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Pamela Geller: Heroine or Hateful Islamaphobe?
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2015, 04:39:31 pm »
Agreed. The difference between Americans and far too may muslims is their apparent inability to think rationally.

They just crawled out of the desert tents a few generations. They did so because of oil, not any virtue of their so called civilizations.

Islam needs a Renaissance.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2015, 04:40:20 pm by Luis Gonzalez »
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, i have others." - Groucho Marx

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Pamela Geller: Heroine or Hateful Islamaphobe?
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2015, 05:48:21 pm »
Islam needs a Renaissance.
And a Reformation, and an Age of Enlightenment.

There is some evidence that key majority muslim nations are taking responsibility, for their terrorist factions.

In the long run, it is better for Egypt, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan to "root" out the terrosts and punish them.

National militaries should smash them, and they should not be allowed to control any territory. Force them entirely underground, as criminal gangs.

Religious leaders must back the isolation and defeat of the criminal gangs, in order for it to work.

In order for murder to be a civil crime in the West, we had to make laws that were contrary to the Bible, which states "an eye for an eye."

Likewise rules in the Quran must be overruled by civil laws. That would be a Reformation.
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Pamela Geller: Heroine or Hateful Islamaphobe?
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2015, 09:48:04 pm »
That would be a Reformation.

I prefer "reformulation".
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, i have others." - Groucho Marx

Offline PzLdr

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Re: Pamela Geller: Heroine or Hateful Islamaphobe?
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2015, 10:11:40 pm »
She can't be both?
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Offline Fishrrman

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Re: Pamela Geller: Heroine or Hateful Islamaphobe?
« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2015, 02:59:10 am »
Luis wrote above:
[[ So I think Geller was wrong in doing what she did but I also know that she has every right to do it, and I'll defend her right to do it, just as I think that the guy who put the crucifix in the jar of urine was wrong in doing that but I'll equally defend his right to do it. ]]

Well, fine, Luis.

If what Geller did was "wrong", what do YOU think must be done against islam (yes, AGAINST it) in order for The West to prevail against muslim ascendence?

She did nothing wrong, in my opinion.
Actually, we need a lot MORE of "what she's doing" -- worldwide.

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Pamela Geller: Heroine or Hateful Islamaphobe?
« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2015, 03:54:49 am »
Luis wrote above:
[[ So I think Geller was wrong in doing what she did but I also know that she has every right to do it, and I'll defend her right to do it, just as I think that the guy who put the crucifix in the jar of urine was wrong in doing that but I'll equally defend his right to do it. ]]

Well, fine, Luis.

If what Geller did was "wrong", what do YOU think must be done against islam (yes, AGAINST it) in order for The West to prevail against muslim ascendence?

She did nothing wrong, in my opinion.
Actually, we need a lot MORE of "what she's doing" -- worldwide.

Is putting a crucifix in a jar of urine a wrong thing to do?
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, i have others." - Groucho Marx

Offline Fishrrman

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Re: Pamela Geller: Heroine or Hateful Islamaphobe?
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2015, 04:08:36 am »
Luis wrote above:
[[ Is putting a crucifix in a jar of urine a wrong thing to do? ]]

I would find it displeasing.

I wouldn't do it.

I wouldn't endorse it, if someone else did it.

I wouldn't attempt to prosecute someone who did it.

But -- I wouldn't refer to it as "art", either...

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Pamela Geller: Heroine or Hateful Islamaphobe?
« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2015, 12:50:16 pm »
Luis wrote above:
[[ Is putting a crucifix in a jar of urine a wrong thing to do? ]]

I would find it displeasing.

I wouldn't do it.

I wouldn't endorse it, if someone else did it.

I wouldn't attempt to prosecute someone who did it.

But -- I wouldn't refer to it as "art", either...

That's my point.

It's wrong and disrespectful. Just as the Westboro Baptist shenanigans are wrong and disrespectful, and as offensive as a bunch of college kids trampling on the flag.

This society, in fact, this world, has lost the art of civility.

The actions of Geller and the Westboro Baptist group and the guy who put the crucifix in the jar of urine and the kids who stomped on the flag are protected under our Constitution, but that doesn't make them right, and when we approve of one but disapprove of the other, we're just being hypocrites.
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, i have others." - Groucho Marx

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Pamela Geller: Heroine or Hateful Islamaphobe?
« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2015, 12:53:52 pm »
Luis wrote above:
[[ Is putting a crucifix in a jar of urine a wrong thing to do? ]]

I would find it displeasing.

I wouldn't do it.

I wouldn't endorse it, if someone else did it.

I wouldn't attempt to prosecute someone who did it.

But -- I wouldn't refer to it as "art", either...

BTW... I asked you whether putting a crucifix in a jar of urine was a wrong thing to do or not.

A simple "yes" or "no" will suffice.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2015, 12:54:40 pm by Luis Gonzalez »
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, i have others." - Groucho Marx

Offline aligncare

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Re: Pamela Geller: Heroine or Hateful Islamaphobe?
« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2015, 01:49:16 pm »
Putting the crossing urine? No, not wrong. Asking me to pay for it? Yes, wrong.

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Pamela Geller: Heroine or Hateful Islamaphobe?
« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2015, 01:59:45 pm »
Putting the crossing urine? No, not wrong. Asking me to pay for it? Yes, wrong.

It absolutely is wrong and offensive as well.
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Offline aligncare

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Re: Pamela Geller: Heroine or Hateful Islamaphobe?
« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2015, 02:04:18 pm »
Freedom includes freedom to be offensive.

There are tons of things I find offensive in our culture. But, rather than trying to ban the offending act (protected speech), or kill the offender, I just reach for the off button on my radio or TV.

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Pamela Geller: Heroine or Hateful Islamaphobe?
« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2015, 02:10:46 pm »
Freedom includes freedom to be offensive.

There are tons of things I find offensive in our culture. But, rather than trying to ban the offending act (protected speech), or kill the offender, I just reach for the off button on my radio or TV.

But not freedom from the possible consequences of your actions. That's not possible.

The First Amendment says "Congress shall make no law...".  It didn't. Geller exercised her freedom and (luckily) the authorities stopped the two killers from carrying out their plans.

This is not a freedom of speech case.
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Offline Lando Lincoln

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Re: Pamela Geller: Heroine or Hateful Islamaphobe?
« Reply #17 on: May 08, 2015, 02:24:27 pm »
Geller and the participants/cartoonists were 100% within their rights.  They also were idiots for putting themselves and others in harm's way with the provocation. It did nothing in the defeat of jihad.  It gave the whimpering left something to moan about and certain gun-control nuts more fodder. 

Idiocy is rampant in our society and not just a domain of the left.
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Offline GourmetDan

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Re: Pamela Geller: Heroine or Hateful Islamaphobe?
« Reply #18 on: May 08, 2015, 02:31:41 pm »
Geller and the participants/cartoonists were 100% within their rights.  They also were idiots for putting themselves and others in harm's way with the provocation. It did nothing in the defeat of jihad.  It gave the whimpering left something to moan about and certain gun-control nuts more fodder. 

Some people just refuse to live as a dhimmi...

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Re: Pamela Geller: Heroine or Hateful Islamaphobe?
« Reply #19 on: May 08, 2015, 02:36:21 pm »
Luis wrote above:
[[ This society, in fact, this world, has lost the art of civility. ]]

Point taken. However, I'm a neanderthal and really don't give a damn.

But let's go back to the crucifix in a jar of urine for a moment.

I see little evidence (from what I've learned, read, seen about his life) that would prompt me into believing that Jesus (or his image) would be deserving of such treatment.

I have learned, read, seen MUCH that has convinced me of the heinousness of muhammed's behavior, his contempt for nonbelievers, and his commitment "to the sword" for the vanquishing of all who did not submit to his will.

I feel such contempt by The West towards islam is fully justified.
Addendum: not only is it fully justified, it is morally justifiable, as well.

You and I were not alive during World War II in this country.
Would you also postulate that hatred as engendered by both the government AND the media (of that era) toward the Nazis was "uncivil", "wrongful and disrespectful", as well?

Your entire series of posts amounts to the moral equivalency that liberals use to "justify" their arguments.

I don't believe in moral equivalency.
There is right, and there is wrong.

Right deserves respect.
Wrong deserves ridicule, disgust... and more.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2015, 04:35:26 pm by Fishrrman »

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Pamela Geller: Heroine or Hateful Islamaphobe?
« Reply #20 on: May 08, 2015, 02:51:14 pm »
Luis wrote above:
[[ This society, in fact, this world, has lost the art of civility. ]]

Point taken. However, I'm a neanderthal and really don't give a damn.

But let's go back to the crucifix in a jar of urine for a moment.

I see little evidence (from what I've learned, read, seen about his life) that would prompt me into believing that Jesus (or his image) would be deserving of such treatment.

I have learned, read, seed MUCH that has convinced me of the heinousness of muhammed's behavior, his contempt for nonbelievers, and his commitment "to the sword" for the vanquishing of all who did not submit to his will.

I feel such contempt by The West towards islam is fully justified.
Addendum: not only is it fully justified, it is morally justifiable, as well.

You and I were not alive during World War II in this country.
Would you also postulate that hatred as engendered by both the government AND the media (of that era) toward the Nazis was "uncivil", "wrongful and disrespectful", as well?

Your entire series of posts amounts to the moral equivalency that liberals use to "justify" their arguments.

I don't believe in moral equivalency.
There is right, and there is wrong.

Right deserves respect.
Wrong deserves ridicule, disgust... and more.

You believe in right and wrong as it supports your argument.

That's moral corruption.
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, i have others." - Groucho Marx

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Re: Pamela Geller: Heroine or Hateful Islamaphobe?
« Reply #21 on: May 09, 2015, 07:05:04 pm »
It absolutely is wrong and offensive as well.

And you are free to build that church to preach that sermon in all day long. I'll even give you $20 toward the cost of your pulpit.

I disagree with much speech out there, but the fact is it's legal and constitutional all day long, and therefore 'right' in our society. Sorry if you disagree.
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Re: Pamela Geller: Heroine or Hateful Islamaphobe?
« Reply #22 on: May 09, 2015, 07:49:46 pm »
She's no heroine.

I don't, as I've made clear in the past, have a lot of time for her or her colleague Robert Spencer.
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Re: Pamela Geller: Heroine or Hateful Islamaphobe?
« Reply #23 on: May 09, 2015, 08:18:41 pm »
Interesting the differences of opinions on this issue, so I may as well offer mine, too.

What Gellar did was an 'in your face" to the Muslim extremists so I am all for it. Those who oppose the cartoon festival may do so in good faith and with the purest of motives, but unfortunately they instead come across a bunch of dhimmis frightened that the Islamists may show their displeasure with violence (which they did).

We cannot allow a group of thugs to dictate what we can and cannot do when it comes to freedom of speech and expression, and I find it sad several on here seem willing to do so whatever their rationale.
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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Pamela Geller: Heroine or Hateful Islamaphobe?
« Reply #24 on: May 09, 2015, 09:31:24 pm »
And you are free to build that church to preach that sermon in all day long. I'll even give you $20 toward the cost of your pulpit.

I disagree with much speech out there, but the fact is it's legal and constitutional all day long, and therefore 'right' in our society. Sorry if you disagree.

As I've said many times, and even on this thread, her actions are both legal and constitutional. No argument about that.

The Constitution protects us from government action violating our rights to Free Speech, with many exceptions. Laws punish those who engage in violence as a reaction to you exercising your rights.

Geller exercised her rights free of government interference, and the law protected her from those who would bagged in voice against her. There is no free speech issue here.

I think what she did is wrong because I don't see any value in her actions.

That's me exercising my First Amendment rights.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2015, 09:32:47 pm by Luis Gonzalez »
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, i have others." - Groucho Marx