Le Pen presses France to condemn 'Islamists'

[Fishrrman]

http://news.yahoo.com/le-pen-presses-france-condemn-islamists-224047661.html

Le Pen presses France to condemn 'Islamists'

New York (AFP) - French far-right leader Marine Le Pen urged the government Sunday to denounce as "Islamists" the perpetrators of deadly Paris attacks that left the country reeling.

The three-day killing spree that left 17 dead in and around Paris -- starting when gunmen stormed the offices of satirical newspaper Charlie Hebdo on January 7 -- have left the world reeling, with questions raised about how the perpetrators slipped through the cracks.

"Let us call things by their rightful names, since the French government seems reluctant to do so," Le Pen wrote in a New York Times op-ed.

"France, land of human rights and freedoms, was attacked on its own soil by a totalitarian ideology: Islamic fundamentalism," the National Front leader continued.

"Muslims themselves need to hear this message. They need the distinction between Islamist terrorism and their faith to be made clearly."

Le Pen called for national border checks, more immigration restrictions, stripping "jihadists" of their French citizenship, as well as "zero tolernce for any behavior that undermines laicite (secularism) and French law."

She also condemned the foreign policy "mistakes that have plunged France into serious geopolitical incoherence from which it is struggling to extricate itself."

"Islamist terrorism is a cancer on Islam, and Muslims themselves must fight it at our side," Le Pen added.

Her statements stand in contrast to those made by Prime Minister Manuel Valls, who has stated that France is at war with radical Islam, not with the Muslim faith or any religion.

On Sunday, a French court prevented a rally by anti-Islamist groups in Paris on the grounds that they were promoting Islamophobia.

In the wake of the French attacks and last week's Belgian anti-terror raids, EU foreign ministers were to meet in Brussels on Monday to discuss ways to boost cooperation to combat the threat posed by radicalized Europeans returning home after fighting in Iraq and Syria.

[Fishrrman]

Will this lady save France?

[aligncare]

I've been saying the same (for America).

But, does anybody listen to me? No-o-o-o.

[truth_seeker]

These anti-islamist politicians in Europe are gaining public approval.

The good citizens of France can't go drag muslims from their apartments, for they don't have the guns.

Alas, they must rely on the French police to do so. But they don't have the guns, either.

The civilized West must decide how seriously they want to stop the advances of evil Islamic forces.

That means putting survival ahead of quaint notions about rights, etc. A muslim immigrant (or child of one) that intends to kill you, surely deserves the boot, with no qualifications.

Bend rules if necessary. FDR did so.

[Dexter]

These anti-islamist politicians in Europe are gaining public approval.

The good citizens of France can't go drag muslims from their apartments, for they don't have the guns.

Alas, they must rely on the French police to do so. But they don't have the guns, either.

The civilized West must decide how seriously they want to stop the advances of evil Islamic forces.

That means putting survival ahead of quaint notions about rights, etc. A muslim immigrant (or child of one) that intends to kill you, surely deserves the boot, with no qualifications.

Bend rules if necessary. FDR did so.

Rights aren't rights if they can be taken away.

[aligncare]

Rights aren't rights if they can be taken away.

Taken away from terrorists, or from human beings? There's a difference.

[Dexter]

Taken away from terrorists, or from human beings? There's a difference.

If we know somebody is a terrorist or that they plan on committing an act of terror they are not going to be tolerated. He's talking about taking away rights and booting out hoards of Muslims regardless of if they are terrorists or not.

[aligncare]

If we know somebody is a terrorist or that they plan on committing an act of terror they are not going to be tolerated. He's talking about taking away rights and booting out hoards of Muslims regardless of if they are terrorists or not.

t_s also reminded us FDR made tough decisions. They took war seriously back then.

But this struggle with Wahhabi Islam is crazy different. It isn't a dispute over simple borders or territory.

It's about religious practice, the union of church and state. It's about a cultural invader. They want to invade our values and religious views. It's fanatical 7th Century lunacy.

It's the title bout—Medievil versus Modernity. They want us back in some dark age, and if they win it's convert or lose your head.

However you want to describe it, it's here and playing at a theater (or editorial office) near you.

[Dexter]

It's fanatical 7th Century lunacy.

Yet you believe the greatest and most powerful nation in the history of Earth will fall victim to it? Do you seriously support the idea of removing millions of Muslims from their homes and kicking them out of the United States? Do you have any idea how many lives would be destroyed in the process? Do you have any idea how much Muslim hatred of the United States would be intensified by an action like that?

[aligncare]

Yet you believe the greatest and most powerful nation in the history of Earth will fall victim to it? Do you seriously support the idea of removing millions of Muslims from their homes and kicking them out of the United States? Do you have any idea how many lives would be destroyed in the process? Do you have any idea how much Muslim hatred of the United States would be intensified by an action like that?

?

Went back and looked at what I wrote. That wasn't what I said. But, you're free to continue arguing that point with me if you'd like. I've got nothing better to do.

[Dexter]

?

Went back and looked at what I wrote. That wasn't what I said. But, you're free to continue arguing that point with me if you'd like. I've got nothing better to do.

Based on what you said I assumed that you must agree with the idea of kicking Muslims out of the United States. From there I extrapolated that you must be very worried about Muslims and Sharia law taking over the United States if you think such extreme measures are necessary. I apologize if I have misunderstood something.

[Fishrrman]

Dex wrote above:
[[ Do you seriously support the idea of removing millions of Muslims from their homes and kicking them out of the United States? Do you have any idea how many lives would be destroyed in the process? ]]

To answer your first question, yes, Dex I -do- seriously support that -- in fact, to my knowledge I was one of the first posters to the net to raise that subject.

I believe that the only realistic strategy for the survival of The West is to return all islamics -- not some of them, but ALL of them -- from dar al-harb back to dar al-islam. Aside: do you understand what those two terms mean?

What do you think that my repeated posting of [my original phrase]:
  1. Boxcars,
  or
  2. Burquas
....implies?

I will go so far as to say we may even have to give -citizen muslims- that choice -- leave, or convert to Christianity (or another religion of their choice other than islam).

You'll reply, "that's as bad as they are".
Not quite.
With us, it must be "convert, or leave."
With them, it's "convert, or.... die."
Just a bit of difference there... ;)

You also wrote:
[[ Do you have any idea how much Muslim hatred of the United States would be intensified by an action like that? ]]

You're joking, are you not?
Is that really a serious question?
They don't already call us "the great satan" fer nuthin'....

It makes no difference if half the world's population (or more) of muslims "hate" us.
What matters is that they RESPECT us, and FEAR what the consequences may be if they behave in an anti-Western manner.

Do you not recall what Osama bin Laden himself said?
Here's a cartoon to remind you. Perhaps you'll understand this:

[Dexter]

Dex wrote above:
[[ Do you seriously support the idea of removing millions of Muslims from their homes and kicking them out of the United States? Do you have any idea how many lives would be destroyed in the process? ]]

To answer your first question, yes, Dex I -do- seriously support that -- in fact, to my knowledge I was one of the first posters to the net to raise that subject.

I believe that the only realistic strategy for the survival of The West is to return all islamics -- not some of them, but ALL of them -- from dar al-harb back to dar al-islam. Aside: do you understand what those two terms mean?

What do you think that my repeated posting of [my original phrase]:
  1. Boxcars,
  or
  2. Burquas
....implies?

I will go so far as to say we may even have to give -citizen muslims- that choice -- leave, or convert to Christianity (or another religion of their choice other than islam).

You'll reply, "that's as bad as they are".
Not quite.
With us, it must be "convert, or leave."
With them, it's "convert, or.... die."
Just a bit of difference there... ;)

You also wrote:
[[ Do you have any idea how much Muslim hatred of the United States would be intensified by an action like that? ]]

You're joking, are you not?
Is that really a serious question?
They don't already call us "the great satan" fer nuthin'....

It makes no difference if half the world's population (or more) of muslims "hate" us.
What matters is that they RESPECT us, and FEAR what the consequences may be if they behave in an anti-Western manner.

Do you not recall what Osama bin Laden himself said?
Here's a cartoon to remind you. Perhaps you'll understand this:

Wow...

[Oceander]

Rights aren't rights if they can be taken away.

You need to be a little more nuanced.  All rights can be taken away, if for no other reason than with due process.  If you really want to see how many of your rights can be taken away, and how quickly, go commit a felony and then turn yourself in.

[Oceander]

Yet you believe the greatest and most powerful nation in the history of Earth will fall victim to it? Do you seriously support the idea of removing millions of Muslims from their homes and kicking them out of the United States? Do you have any idea how many lives would be destroyed in the process? Do you have any idea how much Muslim hatred of the United States would be intensified by an action like that?

Are you seriously asking that question?  Go read up on the history of the Twentieth Century, with an emphasis on European socialism in the period 1932 to 1945.

[Dexter]

You need to be a little more nuanced.  All rights can be taken away, if for no other reason than with due process.  If you really want to see how many of your rights can be taken away, and how quickly, go commit a felony and then turn yourself in.

Obviously I was referring to people that aren't out committing felonies, but perhaps I should have specified.

[Oceander]

Obviously I was referring to people that aren't out committing felonies, but perhaps I should have specified.

Perhaps you should have.  And my illustration was simply blatantly obvious.  There are plenty of other ways in which rights are lost, waiver being one of the simplest.  If the mythical so-called "moderate" muslims don't start speaking out against their radicalized, terrorist, brethren, then they will have become complicit in that terrorism and therefore have implicitly consented to their own removal.

You're awfully "cute" when you're naive, but you really ought to put some more thought into things.

[Dexter]

Perhaps you should have.  And my illustration was simply blatantly obvious.  There are plenty of other ways in which rights are lost, waiver being one of the simplest.  If the mythical so-called "moderate" muslims don't start speaking out against their radicalized, terrorist, brethren, then they will have become complicit in that terrorism and therefore have implicitly consented to their own removal.

You're awfully "cute" when you're naive, but you really ought to put some more thought into things.

A lot of Muslims do speak out against it, but I have a feeling you're not interested in seeing what you don't want to see.

[Oceander]

A lot of Muslims do speak out against it, but I have a feeling you're not interested in seeing what you don't want to see.

/snicker


They don't seem to have done much of anything.  Talk is worth nothing, Walk is everything.  Where are the muslim countries cutting off funding for these people?  Cutting off all means by which money is funded to them?  Where are the muslim countries in fact prosecuting these people?  Where are the muslim countries that are stopping wannabes from transiting their territory to get to ISIS and the other terror cells?  Where are ........?  Where are the muslims who are forthrightly accepting that Islam does, in fact, provide a wealth of support for the terrorists, and that they need to do a lot of hard work to figure out how to start demoting some of the received canon.  If they cannot, then they are powerless to prove that Islam is not a source of terrorism, and they simply confirm that it is rational to treat all adherents as potential terrorists.

On the other hand, how many muslim countries still teach that Jews are dogs, the scum of the Earth and only worthy of genocide?

I have ears enough to understand what silence means; I'd advise you to work on yours.

[Oceander]

Where you should be critiquing Ms. Le Pen is in the fact that much of her appeal sounds way, way, way too much like a latter-day French version of Lebensraum.  There are too many of the ingredients in embryo for my comfort:  a focus on nationalism (traditional French culture) and a leftist focus on the traditional working-class french (yes, it is there).  Blend in the particular animus for muslims, and I, for one, find the parallels to an earlier nationalist, socialist, movement scary.

[240B]

I agree. There should be no Muslims in America. They should all be kicked out. And I don't really care how much this would 'disrupt' their life. They have made it crystal clear that they want to kill us. It is not some kind of 'secret', they say it openly and directly. "Our goal is to kill you." So why would any sane person allow these people to come here. I say kill them on the boats.
 
You only have to look at what used to be England, which is now Englandistan, or look at France or Germanistan. They have all been overrun with Muslims, and they refuse to do anything about it. They will be annihilated and they are too stupid to do anything 'real' to stop it.
 
If you want to stop terrorism in a country, it is simple. Get rid of the f**king Muslims. Then terrorism will 'mysteriously' stop. Go figure.
 
It is amazing how simple the world is, when you ditch the politically correct stupid thinking.

[Oceander]

I agree. There should be no Muslims in America. They should all be kicked out. And I don't really care how much this would 'disrupt' their life. They have made it crystal clear that they want to kill us. It is not some kind of 'secret', they say it openly and directly. "Our goal is to kill you." So why would any sane person allow these people to come here. I say kill them on the boats.
 
You only have to look at what used to be England, which is now Englandistan, or look at France or Germanistan. They have all been overrun with Muslims, and they refuse to do anything about it. They will be annihilated and they are too stupid to do anything 'real' to stop it.
 
If you want to stop terrorism in a country, it is simple. Get rid of the f**king Muslims. Then terrorism will 'mysteriously' stop. Go figure.
 
It is amazing how simple the world is, when you ditch the politically correct stupid thinking.

The trouble with that is that most muslims haven't taken that position or said any such thing.  Most muslims are now finding themselves between the hammer of radical islam and the anvil of non-muslim self-preservation:  whether they will it or not, they are very soon going to be faced with the choice of being dragged back to the 7th Century with the radicals, or joining the rest of us in the 21st Century, which will require that they repudiate some of what the Prophet said.  In some respects, that is a cruel choice to put anyone to, but it is the choice they will be put to in the near future.

[Dexter]

/snicker


They don't seem to have done much of anything.  Talk is worth nothing, Walk is everything.  Where are the muslim countries cutting off funding for these people?  Cutting off all means by which money is funded to them?  Where are the muslim countries in fact prosecuting these people?  Where are the muslim countries that are stopping wannabes from transiting their territory to get to ISIS and the other terror cells?  Where are ........?  Where are the muslims who are forthrightly accepting that Islam does, in fact, provide a wealth of support for the terrorists, and that they need to do a lot of hard work to figure out how to start demoting some of the received canon.  If they cannot, then they are powerless to prove that Islam is not a source of terrorism, and they simply confirm that it is rational to treat all adherents as potential terrorists.

On the other hand, how many muslim countries still teach that Jews are dogs, the scum of the Earth and only worthy of genocide?

I have ears enough to understand what silence means; I'd advise you to work on yours.

I don't disagree that moderate Muslims in countries across the world have a long road ahead of them. Some of the problems you mention are very complex and not easily rectified. I do however disagree that a good solution would be to put them on boats by the millions and kick them out of the United States. Muslims in the United States and other developed countries have much more of a tendency to be moderate. That indicates to me that a lot of the problem is cultural. Over the course of history Christianity has partaken in its fair share of lunacy and bloodshed. What changed in Christianity? Was it the religion, or did countries where people are predominately Christian evolve culturally to a point where that was no longer acceptable? I can't say with confidence that many Christians today wouldn't kill people that disagreed with them if it was culturally acceptable.

[Oceander]

I don't disagree that moderate Muslims in countries across the world have a long road ahead of them. Some of the problems you mention are very complex and not easily rectified. I do however disagree that a good solution would be to put them on boats by the millions and kick them out of the United States. Muslims is the United States and other developed countries have much more of a tendency to be moderate. That indicates to me that a lot of the problem is cultural. I'm sure nobody will argue that over the course of history Christianity has partaken in its fair share of lunacy and bloodshed. What changed in Christianity? Was it the religion, or did countries where people are predominately Christian evolve culturally to a point where that was no longer acceptable? I can't say with confidence that a lot of Christians today wouldn't kill people that disagreed with them if it was culturally acceptable.

As I said second to that quote:  the great mass of muslims are now being forced to make a choice - it is a choice their own religion is forcing on them - to go back into savagery with the radicals, or repudiate the infallible nature of the Prophet, and the truth of some of what he said, and join the rest of us in the 21st Century.  And refusing to make a choice is not a valid option; if they do not affirmatively choose to repudiate the radicals, and some of what the Prophet said, then they will have given the West - non-muslims generally - no choice but to treat them as the enemy.  It's not fair, but life is not fair, so there it is.

This isn't some garden-variety set-to between middle class American neighbors, that can be solved if only the do-gooders can get everyone to sit down over a few brewskis; this is an existential struggle, without room for compromise between the two poles, and those in the middle must choose which end to throw their lot in with; there is no middle ground and those who try to sit it out on the fence will simply be ground up in the fight.

[mystery-ak]

The trouble with that is that most muslims haven't taken that position or said any such thing.  Most muslims are now finding themselves between the hammer of radical islam and the anvil of non-muslim self-preservation:  whether they will it or not, they are very soon going to be faced with the choice of being dragged back to the 7th Century with the radicals, or joining the rest of us in the 21st Century, which will require that they repudiate some of what the Prophet said.  In some respects, that is a cruel choice to put anyone to, but it is the choice they will be put to in the near future.

I have thought about this...which way do you think they will choose...back to the 7th Century or join the rest of us in the 21st Century...