Boehner retains Speakership...

[Bigun]

The problem is that because of they way they seem to be acting, conservatives are shutting themselves out of the legislative process.  If someone has publicly rendered himself meaningless, why include him in anything constructive?

When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it.

Frederic Bastiat

I agree with what Mr. Bastiat said 100%!

[massadvj]

There are certain relationships that the GOPe maintains that are simply at odds with those of us on the right who favor a constitutional approach to the federal government.  They simply cannot be reconciled.  I have noted this for my entire life, and I have noted that the establishment ALWAYS wins.  Therefore, I rarely bet against the establishment even though my sympathies lie elsewhere.  It just makes sense not to fight the system, especially since the system is rigged in your favor if you happen to have assets and can either weave your way through the legal process or afford lawyers.

How does this apply to daily life?  Well, for one example, don't count on the tax code being overhauled anytime soon, it is not going to happen.  Learn the ins and outs of the complex system and figure out how to avoid taxes legally.  And don't count on the deficit being reduced, assume they will continue to monetize their way out of every mess and invest your own funds accordingly.

Why lament the establishment when you can get rich from it?  I'd rather work in a free market system, but since the system is rigged then I'll just have to play by the rules they make up, and live in their loopholes.  There will always be loopholes.  The law is written by lawyers.  The loopholes are put there intentionally to protect their own wealth.  It behooves you to learn them rather than to resist them.

Pursuing political reform is a quixotic pursuit.  I will continue to do it because I like to think of myself as a patriot.  But I am under no delusions that constitutional libertarians will ever win.  It would go against a wave that has been consistent and persistent throughout my entire life.

[Oceander]

When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it.

Frederic Bastiat

I agree with what Mr. Bastiat said 100%!

That's an existential matter that doesn't directly apply to the question at hand.  If one truly believes that everything is lost because the legal and moral system are now wholly constructed and controlled by the plunderers, then why bother to participate at all?  Doesn't that make one complicit in the plundering?  The quote from Mr. Bastiat argues only for hermitage (i.e., bunker-mentality survivalism) or open, armed rebellion; it cannot brook continued participation in the republican order of things.

[raml]

I have decided like many before me that it is fruitless to vote nothing ever changes the politicians in office now are just plunderers and the country is doomed. We have all socialist elites in office nothing will change. I now well give up on this once great nation because nothing is going to change and the middle class is doomed to be put out of existence. I will post no more because I am going to learn not to care about anything but my immediate home turf.

[Carling]

Jamie Dupree ‏@jamiedupree 4m4 minutes ago

Whatever the final number, it is a fairly messy start to the 114th Congress for Speaker John Boehner

Not really.  Boehner doesn't need their votes to pass legislation, and the Tea Party goofballs get to claim a moral victory for fundraising while at the same time having their importance in the House greatly diminished.  Even if the Tea 25 vote with the Dems, their votes won't matter.

Good job, guys!   

[musiclady]

Would you please be kind enough to tell me exactly who those "strong conservatives" in leadership positions are? I seem to have missed that.

The game is definitely NOT over! The game will never be over! The question is will there be anything left of this once great republic as the game continues!

Jim Jordan is as solid and principled conservative as exists, and he has made his mark already in House leadership.

And Trey Goudy?  He's outstanding.

Just to name two.......

[Carling]

Not exactly a resounding victory is it?

If Boehner wants to do so, he can completely isolate the Tea 25 for actively working against him.  The thing is, he isn't a child, so I imagine he'll reach out and try to get input from the 25 toddlers who made a symbolic vote against him in order to bolster their approval ratings in their home district.

Because really, that's what this kabuki theater was all about.

[Carling]

The problem with that is that it's already been tried and the establishment crapped all over them! I don't give a damn who gets the credit I just want Obama STOPPED! Won't happen under Boehner!

I'm not to try and put this as nice as possible.  What's stopping you from spearheading change?  Hoping that the same people who profit from the system and suddenly going to change the system is myopic at best.  Revolution doesn't come from hoping elected leaders entrenched in power will suddenly completely redo how they approach how DC works.  If you're looking to politicians for your answers, it's futile.  If you're just venting, I do understand why, but it isn't going to accomplish anything, other than raising your blood pressure.   

[Bigun]

Jim Jordan is as solid and principled conservative as exists, and he has made his mark already in House leadership.

And Trey Goudy?  He's outstanding.

Just to name two.......

I agree! But what leadership positions do they hold? I am unaware of any.

[Bigun]

I'm not to try and put this as nice as possible.  What's stopping you from spearheading change?  Hoping that the same people who profit from the system and suddenly going to change the system is myopic at best.  Revolution doesn't come from hoping elected leaders entrenched in power will suddenly completely redo how they approach how DC works.  If you're looking to politicians for your answers, it's futile.  If you're just venting, I do understand why, but it isn't going to accomplish anything, other than raising your blood pressure.   

We'll see!

[Carling]

The problem is that because of they way they seem to be acting, conservatives are shutting themselves out of the legislative process.  If someone has publicly rendered himself meaningless, why include him in anything constructive?

Yep.  What good did it do for the Tea 25 to marginalize themselves on the first day of the new congress, other than raise a bit of money and firm up their support at home?  They knew their vote wasn't going to help anyone but themselves, and that's only for political and financial reasons.  Strategically, it's an epic fail, and they are lucky that Boehner seems to be willing to work with anyone; even those who stab him right in the chest.  Yet the same people will continue to contribute money to these futile causes.  It's Grubering.

[musiclady]

I agree! But what leadership positions do they hold? I am unaware of any.

I guess you and I are defining "leadership" differently.

Trey Gowdy has been a bulldog on Benghazi, and Jordan on the IRS scandal against the DOJ.

They have both distinguished themselves in their Committee assignments, and IMO, have proven to be strong conservative leaders within the House structure.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

If Boehner wants to do so, he can completely isolate the Tea 25 for actively working against him.  The thing is, he isn't a child, so I imagine he'll reach out and try to get input from the 25 toddlers who made a symbolic vote against him in order to bolster their approval ratings in their home district.

Because really, that's what this kabuki theater was all about.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

GOP Non-Boehner Vote Tally: Webster-12 Gohmert-3 Jordan-2 Yoho-2 Duncan-1 Rand Paul-1 Jeff Sessions-1 Gowdy-1 McCarthy-1 Present-1 TOTAL: 25

Dan Webster gets a 67% on the Club for Growth scorecard.  What are conservatives smoking?
http://www.clubforgrowth.org/scorecards/?chamber=0&scyear=2013

[240B]

Well, that's a bummer. No matter who you vote for, the government always wins. As we see here today.
 
Radio says Boehner used bribes and deals such as offices and chairmanships to save himself. This is why in any case in American politics, it is so difficult to defeat the incumbent. Since they have direct access to the honeypot, they can usually defeat any challengers with payoffs and promises. Especially according to the political structure of the way our system works.
 
But according to talk radio, it was not the cakewalk Boehner thought it would be. There may be at least some comfort in that.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

But according to talk radio, it was not the cakewalk Boehner thought it would be. There may be at least some comfort in that.

What is the comfort of a close loss(220 - 25?) versus a shellacking?  Boehner faced this same trial in 2013 and lost 12 votes when 17 were needed to go to a second vote.  Today it was 25 votes out of 29 needed to go to a second vote.  Soooo close...so tantalizingly close.

I think a close loss is more devastating to the ideologically driven.  When Kennedy beat Nixon in a close election in 1960 the GOP broke out into a war over the direction of the party.  The result was the stupefyingly inept candidate Goldwater.  His breathtakingly crappy campaign gave us huge rat super majorities in Congress and spawned Johnson's "Great Society."

When the Tea 25 comes so close to winning...it is bound to create some tensions between conservative factions who believe they might have won this battle if the other conservative factions had done something differently.

Boehner knew who was going to vote against him last week and bought off enough votes to win comfortably.  Others were given Boehner's blessing to vote against him to fool the voters at home.

You think talk radio is a public service to inform you.  They are in the business of getting ratings to sell advertisement.  Sometime the news tells you what it thinks you want to hear. 

[GourmetDan]

You think talk radio is a public service to inform you.  They are in the business of getting ratings to sell advertisement.  Sometime the news tells you what it thinks you want to hear.

News flash... it ain't just talk radio... and it ain't just sometimes...

[Fishrrman]

Oceander wrote above:
[[ the right-most members, to all appearances, seem to prefer to grandstand on their principles ]]

At least they have some principles upon which to make their showing.

In the meanwhile, the GOP-e doesn't need to grandstand -- rather, they bask in their malfeasance...

[mystery-ak]

Oceander wrote above:
[[ the right-most members, to all appearances, seem to prefer to grandstand on their principles ]]

At least they have some principles upon which to make their showing.

In the meanwhile, the GOP-e doesn't need to grandstand -- rather, they bask in their malfeasance...

Wish I said that....perfect!