Terminally Ill Woman Brittany Maynard Has Ended Her Own Life

[ABX]

That's the easy part.  She also suffered from "AttentionWhoreItis".

I don't know how legit this is, but she was promoting the right to die (assisted suicide) movement.

[ABX]

If she is in Hell—and I hope she is not—then this will have been her downfall. It is one thing for Satan to deceive a person to believe that suicide is the only way out. That is a tragedy. A true sin is to go out into the world and make it look credible, which is exactly what Maynard did. That is the work of Satan.

Of course, the media, using all those outdated pictures of her pretty smiling face from before she had cancer, went hand-in-hand with it.

The thing is that the Bible isn't completely clear on suicide. Most point to the 'thou shall not kill' and say suicide is the murder of one's self, but at the same time, there are many cases in the Bible where suicide isn't condemned. From Samson's taking his own life to take down the temple he was chained up in, to Abimelech killing himself in battle so he couldn't be said a women killed him (dropped a stone on his head, he was dying already), to Ahithophel killing himself due to disgrace, to Zimri killing himself rather than being taken captive, to Judas killing himself out of guilt for betraying Christ. Each way was for a different reason, but the actual act isn't condemned in these cases but seen as a normal outcome of the other issues.

[ABX]

No offense taken DC.  I see the Genesis story as allegorical - the garden and the snake - it's a way of telling us something in terms we can understand.  But I do believe that this story has been handed down to us from God as a means of us being able to understand HIM.  We see things with more complexity now, so the story seems like a fairy tale.  But the moral that is derived from the story is the truth.

Got to love thread creep. I fall into the allegorical mode as well. It makes sense the more and more we know about human and society evolution.

1. God created man in his own image from the dust of the earth- we know that God isn't a bipedal hominid. He is spirit. That part of creation is God infusing man with spirit, separating him from the animals (making him more than dust of the earth, more than from dust to dust).
2. Man named the animals (as another comment discussed). Man acquiring language to describe his universe. This opens up the world to him, it opens up his mind to explore and pass along knowledge.
3. The fall through eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil is Man acquiring moral judgement. He becomes more than an animal. A cat being cruel to a mouse it captured isn't considered immoral but man doing the same thing is. Because we have moral judgment.
4. The story of Cain and Able, this can really go far into the story of the move from a hunter/gatherer life into civilization and farming. The conflict of man to become more civilized...

..and thus the story goes on..

[NavyCanDo]

The thing is that the Bible isn't completely clear on suicide. Most point to the 'thou shall not kill' and say suicide is the murder of one's self, but at the same time, there are many cases in the Bible where suicide isn't condemned. From Samson's taking his own life to take down the temple he was chained up in, to Abimelech killing himself in battle so he couldn't be said a women killed him (dropped a stone on his head, he was dying already), to Ahithophel killing himself due to disgrace, to Zimri killing himself rather than being taken captive, to Judas killing himself out of guilt for betraying Christ. Each way was for a different reason, but the actual act isn't condemned in these cases but seen as a normal outcome of the other issues.

I personally believe that Biblically the different lies in the reasons for taking one’s life that determine how God judges it.  Was it selfish act, an avoidance or escape of earthly obligations, punishment or consequences, or a spiteful "I'll hurt you by doing this" act?     Or a selfless act of love for those you leave behind.   God is the ultimate Judge and  knows our heart and reasons.   

[MACVSOG68]

I'll stay away from the biblical aspects of this thread, but I have  to comment on the concerns about Ms. Maynard's decision to go public.  Many people seem to have no problem with going public about all sorts of medical experiences including both abortions and more importantly their "non-abortions".  And I think that's fine.  If an anti-abortion proponent wants to tell the world how bad abortions are, that's how movements take place.  So if Maynard wanted to let the world know that "death with dignity" should be everyone's right, what's the problem?

[musiclady]

I personally believe that Biblically the different lies in the reasons for taking one’s life that determine how God judges it.  Was it selfish act, an avoidance or escape of earthly obligations, punishment or consequences, or a spiteful "I'll hurt you by doing this" act?     Or a selfless act of love for those you leave behind.   God is the ultimate Judge and  knows our heart and reasons.

There's another option regarding the motivation for suicide.  I believe a large number of suicides are related to mental illness and/or a depth of depression that can't see the world as it really is.   I have a family member who ended her life and left a note explaining that she believed she was so much a drag on her family that they would be better off without her.  It wasn't even close to reality, but to her, it was.

You are absolutely right in that God is the ultimate judge, and that we can, in no way, be certain as to what has gone on in the mind or soul of one who commits suicide.

[Luis Gonzalez]

I have to politely disagree, AW.

JR can smell a troll from a far distance.  They are bonafide far Right SOCONS.


...as Jerry would say, "....not that there's anything wrong with that."   

They are the knuckle-dragging rear guard of the Hell and Brimstone platoon of the Christian Taliban battalion of the SoCon wing of the Conservative Branch of the Republican Party.

 

[Luis Gonzalez]

I'll stay away from the biblical aspects of this thread, but I have  to comment on the concerns about Ms. Maynard's decision to go public.  Many people seem to have no problem with going public about all sorts of medical experiences including both abortions and more importantly their "non-abortions".  And I think that's fine.  If an anti-abortion proponent wants to tell the world how bad abortions are, that's how movements take place.  So if Maynard wanted to let the world know that "death with dignity" should be everyone's right, what's the problem?

Good post.

[Luis Gonzalez]

Yes, anytime you see death promoted, whether it be abortion or euthenasia, you can bet that evil is its source.  Not content to have 'physician-assisted suicides' legal in Washington, Oregon, Montana, Vermont and New Mexico; evil will not rest until euthenasia is the law of the whole land.

Odd.

There are few who paint death in a more positive light than ardently religious people of any faith or denomination.

I know of no faith that doesn't see death (in one way or another) as a joyous event to be celebrated as the reward for a good life, or something to be feared if one led a less than "good" life.

[GourmetDan]

Got to love thread creep. I fall into the allegorical mode as well. It makes sense the more and more we know about human and society evolution.

Actually, if you keep up with evolutionary 'science', evolution is falling apart as biologists learn more about the complexities of life.  'We' do not 'know' anything about human and societal 'evolution', 'we' 'believe' it.

1. God created man in his own image from the dust of the earth- we know that God isn't a bipedal hominid. He is spirit. That part of creation is God infusing man with spirit, separating him from the animals (making him more than dust of the earth, more than from dust to dust).

Actually, Jesus was definitely a bipedal hominid who said, "Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?"

2. Man named the animals (as another comment discussed). Man acquiring language to describe his universe. This opens up the world to him, it opens up his mind to explore and pass along knowledge.

Man was created with language.  Ancient languages are universally more complex than 'modern' languages.  It is simply a belief that man is 'advancing'.

3. The fall through eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil is Man acquiring moral judgement. He becomes more than an animal. A cat being cruel to a mouse it captured isn't considered immoral but man doing the same thing is. Because we have moral judgment.

Adam and Eve were already more than animals before they fell.  They learned evil, something they did not know before the fall.

4. The story of Cain and Able (sic), this can really go far into the story of the move from a hunter/gatherer life into civilization and farming. The conflict of man to become more civilized...

Cain was already a farmer while Abel was a herdsman.  Cain went off and built a city.  The fall resulted in man becoming less civilized, not more.

..and thus the story goes on..

Well, the evolutionary version always turns it all upside down so that people believe they are 'advancing' and becoming 'more civilized' when they are actually regressing and becoming less civilized...

[GourmetDan]

Odd.

There are few who paint death in a more positive light than ardently religious people of any faith or denomination.

Not odd and not death. 

I know of no faith that doesn't see death (in one way or another) as a joyous event to be celebrated as the reward for a good life, or something to be feared if one led a less than "good" life.

Eternal life *after* death is what you are referring to.  The last enemy to be destroyed is 'Death'.   I Cor 15:26

[truth_seeker]

They are the knuckle-dragging rear guard of the Hell and Brimstone platoon of the Christian Taliban battalion of the SoCon wing of the Conservative Branch of the Republican Party.

 

They are part of the best argument for "Separation of Church and State" as intended by the 1st Amendment.

I've been reading up on the religious beliefs of the Founders, and it is a revelation. Jefferson, Paine, Franklin, Madison and Washington were clearly Deists.

They were educated, pragmatic men, and they knew the religious strife, wars, corruption, etc. of the preceding centuries argued civil life should be apart from spiritual life.

[jmyrlefuller]

Odd.

There are few who paint death in a more positive light than ardently religious people of any faith or denomination.

I know of no faith that doesn't see death (in one way or another) as a joyous event to be celebrated as the reward for a good life, or something to be feared if one led a less than "good" life.

The apostle Paul once wrote that "the wages of sin is death." The Gospels write of the "kingdom of heaven" and "eternal life" for those who believe and obey. Yet we, as Christians, do not wish any person to die deliberately—if it is their time to be called up to heaven, then it is to be celebrated. The ascent into heaven accompanies death for the righteous and the saved, but the two are not one and the same, and one cannot bring about entry into heaven simply by killing oneself. Entry into heaven is indeed joyous. Death, in and of itself, is in fact the opposite.

[Luis Gonzalez]

The apostle Paul once wrote that "the wages of sin is death." The Gospels write of the "kingdom of heaven" and "eternal life" for those who believe and obey. Yet we, as Christians, do not wish any person to die deliberately—if it is their time to be called up to heaven, then it is to be celebrated. The ascent into heaven accompanies death for the righteous and the saved, but the two are not one and the same, and one cannot bring about entry into heaven simply by killing oneself. Entry into heaven is indeed joyous. Death, in and of itself, is in fact the opposite.

Unless of course, we are arguing in favor of the death penalty.

[Luis Gonzalez]

Not odd and not death. 

Eternal life *after* death is what you are referring to.  The last enemy to be destroyed is 'Death'.   I Cor 15:26

"Death" (to any devout Christian) is a gate to "Eternal Life", to "Heaven", to a place where there is no sickness, or sadness, or need, or want.

"Heaven" is better than here and the place that you should strive for when you're alive. So life here, while you're alive is something that we just have to endure and somehow muddle through until we become dead, and can be rewarded with the greatest gift, which is after death and eternity in a far better place.

Unless of course, you live a "bad" life, in which case you'll go to 'Hell" when you become dead, and you'll then spend eternity in a place that, as bad as this place where we live may be, is unimaginable worse.

All religions promote a culture of death.

[GourmetDan]

All religions promote a culture of death.

So you're saying that "Compassion & Choices, an end-of-life choice advocacy organization, to fight for expanding death with dignity laws nationwide" is a religion?

Odd...

[Luis Gonzalez]

So you're saying that "Compassion & Choices, an end-of-life choice advocacy organization, to fight for expanding death with dignity laws nationwide" is a religion?

Odd...

You're not that thick Dan, you know exactly what I am saying.

All religions promote the idea that a death arrived upon within the parameters established by that religion is rewarded by a greater thing than what could ever be had here on this plane of existence. So religions seek to control the lives and actions of their adherents by promises of unimaginable rewards or monstrous punishments after death.

To me, that's as good a definition for "culture of death" as any that I've ever ran across.

Perhaps the idea of "expanding death with dignity laws nationwide" is a religion like any other religion that centers its dogma around the idea of death. Or better yet, a push back on the idea that any religion should  be allowed to promote and demand government enforcement of laws based on their tenets and force non-believers to live by them.

Should I ever decide to end my own life, the decision would be between myself and my God, whomever and whatever I believe that entity to be, not between me and Congress/the Church/Christian PACs and my God.

[GourmetDan]

You're not that thick Dan, you know exactly what I am saying.

All religions promote the idea that a death arrived upon within the parameters established by that religion is rewarded by a greater thing than what could ever be had here on this plane of existence. So religions seek to control the lives and actions of their adherents by promises of unimaginable rewards or monstrous punishments after death.

To me, that's as good a definition for "culture of death" as any that I've ever ran across.

Perhaps the idea of "expanding death with dignity laws nationwide" is a religion like any other religion that centers its dogma around the idea of death. Or better yet, a push back on the idea that any religion should  be allowed to promote and demand government enforcement of laws based on their tenets and force non-believers to live by them.

And yet, the Christians don't seem to be promoting death in the same way but according to you they do.

So is it a religion or isn't it?  Seems to be indistinguishable from one according to your definition.

Should I ever decide to end my own life, the decision would be between myself and my God, whomever and whatever I believe that entity to be, not between me and Congress/the Church/Christian PACs and my God.

As it is for everyone.  What profundity...

[Luis Gonzalez]

And yet, the Christians don't seem to be promoting death in the same way but according to you they do.

So is it a religion or isn't it?  Seems to be indistinguishable from one according to your definition.

As it is for everyone.  What profundity...

Of course Christians promote death.

That's the only way that you can get to Heaven.

[GourmetDan]

Of course Christians promote death.

That's the only way that you can get to Heaven.

Except it isn't the Christians.

It's "Compassion & Choices".

And Jesus is the only way to heaven, not death...

[MACVSOG68]

You're not that thick Dan, you know exactly what I am saying.

All religions promote the idea that a death arrived upon within the parameters established by that religion is rewarded by a greater thing than what could ever be had here on this plane of existence. So religions seek to control the lives and actions of their adherents by promises of unimaginable rewards or monstrous punishments after death.

To me, that's as good a definition for "culture of death" as any that I've ever ran across.

Perhaps the idea of "expanding death with dignity laws nationwide" is a religion like any other religion that centers its dogma around the idea of death. Or better yet, a push back on the idea that any religion should  be allowed to promote and demand government enforcement of laws based on their tenets and force non-believers to live by them.

Should I ever decide to end my own life, the decision would be between myself and my God, whomever and whatever I believe that entity to be, not between me and Congress/the Church/Christian PACs and my God.

Could not say it any better.  As truth_seeker indicated, there's a reason for the separation of church and state.  For those who believe, suffer all you want until death takes you, but for those who don't, leave their decision to die with dignity to them, their family, and their doctor.

[mountaineer]

All religions promote a culture of death.

How interesting that Jesus Christ said, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through me."  Nothing there about a dogma centered on death.

Maybe here: " I came that they might have life, and might have it abundantly."  Hmmm, not quite. I'll keep looking.

Oh, wait, this may be it: "... (A)s the women were terrified and bowed their faces to the ground, the men said to them, "Why do you seek the living One among the dead? He is not here, but He has risen."

I'll have to get back to you on this ...

[DCPatriot]

You're not that thick Dan, you know exactly what I am saying.

All religions promote the idea that a death arrived upon within the parameters established by that religion is rewarded by a greater thing than what could ever be had here on this plane of existence. So religions seek to control the lives and actions of their adherents by promises of unimaginable rewards or monstrous punishments after death.

To me, that's as good a definition for "culture of death" as any that I've ever ran across.

Perhaps the idea of "expanding death with dignity laws nationwide" is a religion like any other religion that centers its dogma around the idea of death. Or better yet, a push back on the idea that any religion should  be allowed to promote and demand government enforcement of laws based on their tenets and force non-believers to live by them.

Should I ever decide to end my own life, the decision would be between myself and my God, whomever and whatever I believe that entity to be, not between me and Congress/the Church/Christian PACs and my God.

Damn, Luis....you have a gift!   

[Oceander]

They are part of the best argument for "Separation of Church and State" as intended by the 1st Amendment.

I've been reading up on the religious beliefs of the Founders, and it is a revelation. Jefferson, Paine, Franklin, Madison and Washington were clearly Deists.

They were educated, pragmatic men, and they knew the religious strife, wars, corruption, etc. of the preceding centuries argued civil life should be apart from spiritual life.

[Oceander]

Of course Christians promote death.

That's the only way that you can get to Heaven.