Wow, I missed a lot. I do not care to revisit specifics of the back and forth of the thread but I'd like to offer my final two cents. It is offered with respect and humility and I hate it that some here have had horrors visited upon them by others. It is, as EC has said in various ways, the way it is - despite being horrific. I will also be presumptuous in suggesting that I think I know where Luis has been coming from so this may speak for him as well. If not, I'm sure Luis will tell me.
I have no illusions that there are not worse, far worse methods than waterboarding to inflict on another human being for the purposes of extracting information. And, I have come to understand that some here may have experienced or seen some of those horrors. I also intuitively, instinctively and intellectually know that there are yet worse experiences. One can shock themselves in imagining the reality of that. Some methods, as observed earlier, may not require physical maiming of the body. Systematic executions of others, or loved ones, is one such method.
So... are we talking about a matter of degree? What is the bottom rung of the spectrum? Do we say to the soldier who may have given up intelligence resulting in deaths of others through waterboarding that... it... wasn't ... real... torture? Would a grieving family be told such a thing? "Mr. and Mrs. Smith, your son gave his life, but before he did, he gave up crucial info that resulted in the deaths of his fellow soldiers. And it was only through waterboarding, which isn't real torture." I think not.
From the beginning of this narrative, I have said we are trying to define a word. What we are debating, are examples of it. I will tell you, I hold that the act of waterboarding is on the torture spectrum. Otherwise, it would not be effective. It causes sufficient trauma to change a person's most steadfast heart. It makes the toughest among us who would otherwise say they would never surrender sensitive information that would result in the deaths of your brothers in arms - relent. Again, are there more severe, more expedient methods? Of course. Absolutely.
So... definitions. For me, waterboarding is indeed on the torture spectrum. Undeniably so. Does it bother me that I believe that? No. As I said, I support the employment of the technique in some instances. But, I won't deny what it is.
I submit this with humility to those of you who served.
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Now, back to Sarah Palin.