Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China

[SlapLeather]

Mapped: The 634 runways where missing Malaysia Airlines plane could have landed

That should narrow it down... : /

[Oceander]

I think the possible maximum range has now been extended to 2500 miles, not just 2200 miles.

[Gazoo]

Mapped: The 634 runways where missing Malaysia Airlines plane could have landed

That should narrow it down... : /

Humor and sarcasm duly noted but...

In todays technology we should not be playing Where's Waldo.

If they were on to them and closing in, it would be stoopid to announce it, or then again they could be truly playing 'Where's Waldo'?

[SlapLeather]

Humor and sarcasm duly noted but...

In todays technology we should not be playing Where's Waldo.

If they were on to them and closing in, it would be stoopid to announce it, or then again they could be truly playing 'Where's Waldo'?

We are banned from looking for bad guys. In this PC world we will always be after the fact. I will be very surprised if it turns out to be a bearded guy named Waldo. However, I'm pretty sure we're still on Waldo's trail, as opposed to the beard... sing it with me... Why can't we be friends.. Why can't we be friends...

[Atomic Cow]

Why is it in this day and age, a black box/transmitter cannot be sending the same information in real time to a Wifi or other eavesdropping device?

Shame on them....

It is a matter of bandwidth as well as storage capacity.  This was looked at after AF447 and the cost to deploy the infrastructure (satellites, servers, storage, and supporting parts) was in the tens of billions of dollars.

[olde north church]

It is a matter of bandwidth as well as storage capacity.  This was looked at after AF447 and the cost to deploy the infrastructure (satellites, servers, storage, and supporting parts) was in the tens of billions of dollars.

Easier to track 1000 planes the 340,000,000 Americans.  Point the antennae outward for the love of Christ.

[NavyCanDo]

Question......

How low an altitude can a 777 'safely' fly with a door or passenger door(s) open?


Think that perhaps when the plane rose to over 40,000 feet, all the passengers were purposely suffocated....then they threw them into the Indian Ocean before they landed it.

At least that's how I would adapt the script/plot in the movie

Ever try to carry or even drag an adult?   Even with a fireman's carry it is a difficult task with one, an impossible task with over 200. And do so in the cramp confines of an airplane. Plus you would leave a mice trail of floaters showing the direction you flew.

[EC]

Easier to track 1000 planes the 340,000,000 Americans.  Point the antennae outward for the love of Christ.

While I agree - who pays? It costs a bundle. To go with the engine transponders for a minute - they add a couple hundred thousand quid to the cost of an engine over it's life span. Rolls swallows the cost, since they are both optional and only normally fitted to the first 20 engines in a new series (new is relative).

[DCPatriot]

Ever try to carry or even drag an adult?   Even with a fireman's carry it is a difficult task with one, an impossible task with over 200. And do so in the cramp confines of an airplane. Plus you would leave a mice trail of floaters showing the direction you flew.

Not at all....if the several ticketed passengers with phony passports lent a hand.  Drag down the aisle and push out the door.  Repeat.

As far as leaving a trail of 'floaters'.....a plane could maintain an oval pattern until emptied.

And as previously stated, they are 'fish food'....and secondly, if they can't find wreckage, how they gonna find individual bodies thousand of miles from shore?

[Atomic Cow]

While I agree - who pays? It costs a bundle. To go with the engine transponders for a minute - they add a couple hundred thousand quid to the cost of an engine over it's life span. Rolls swallows the cost, since they are both optional and only normally fitted to the first 20 engines in a new series (new is relative).

Some airlines do have the aircraft transmit a lot of data, and they gladly pay for it because it helps with maintenance, reliability, and improves dispatch rates.

Boeing pays for it on new aircraft (not as in newly built, but a new model such as the 787 or a new model of an existing version) and as mentioned, the engine manufacturers pay for it as well under some circumstances.

But most of that is simply numbers, easy data to transmit and store compared to transmitting every single a word spoken in the cockpit and every single bit of operational data, even beyond what the FDR records.

[Atomic Cow]

Not at all....if the several ticketed passengers with phony passports lent a hand.  Drag down the aisle and push out the door.  Repeat.

As far as leaving a trail of 'floaters'.....a plane could maintain an oval pattern until emptied.

And as previously stated, they are 'fish food'....and secondly, if they can't find wreckage, how they gonna find individual bodies thousand of miles from shore?

Once an aircraft is pressurized, you cannot open a door in flight.  The interior pressure is so much greater it prohibits the doors from opening.  The handle would break off before you could put enough force into it to open the door; force no human or even a group of humans could put into the handle.

Depressurizing the aircraft and opening the door would be extremely dangerous to the aircraft's structure as it now exposes the aircraft to the slipstream which can damage or destroy the structure.

If you want the aircraft intact, this would be a very bad idea.

[Rapunzel]

The other developing tidbit in this drama is that the majority of the passengers on that plane were Chinese citizens heading home via Beijing, and the Chinese Government is getting increasingly impatient with the slow progress on this. 

And it is my understanding that it is not unusual for many airline pilots to have sophisticated PC based flight simulators.

Not at all unusual and this pilot has been reported to live for flying...to answer why the co pilot?  Because of many things.. he's very young ... 27... low flying hours.... 2000....described as usual devout Muslim.... something no one has attributed to the pilot.... the last communication... alright goodnight... would  pilot known to be devoted to flying use that instead of the correct ...this is MH370 handing off to...acknowledging the handoff to Vietnam airspace...the erratic flying "could" have been struggle in the cockpit between the two or a deliberate act to disable the passengers... 45,000 feet... And according to experts last night the jogging might have been to avoid known flight path radar...

Frankly if the thought it could make Khagistan... my suspicion is it went to Iran.

[Rapunzel]

Another interesting thing from an expert who was on Fox last night... former 777 and Air force fighter pilot...He said above 43,000 feet they would rapidly lose air speed and stall which accounts for the drop to 20,000 feet and then a recovery and climb back to 29,000 feet.  He said a plane that heavy would take a GOOD..pilot easily 15,000 feet to recover and most pilots would not be able to correct..He gave a whole lot of technical descriptions for what's required to take this heavy a plane and climb that high and what moves the pilot would have had to do to recover control of the plane..now THAT could describe the pilot who could have practiced these moves on his simulator... wouldn't experts be able to recover this like the way they check our computers to see what we search?

[EC]

Once an aircraft is pressurized, you cannot open a door in flight.  The interior pressure is so much greater it prohibits the doors from opening.  The handle would break off before you could put enough force into it to open the door; force no human or even a group of humans could put into the handle.

Depressurizing the aircraft and opening the door would be extremely dangerous to the aircraft's structure as it now exposes the aircraft to the slipstream which can damage or destroy the structure.

If you want the aircraft intact, this would be a very bad idea.

You can open the door at 7000 feet, though you want to crank the selector to Manual before you try. It's the small handle - rotate it until the display window no longer shows a red flag. You do have the problem of pushing the door open - the vast majority of doors open forward, so you have the wind against you when you try. I guess it is technically possible with a couple of strong people and the plane at just above stalling speed.

Doors will, on occasion, open themselves. Wife had a flight once where they had to use the in flight briefing belts and a couple of extension belts to hold the lock handle in position. She found that somewhat scary. Back in 98 that was, on a brand new 777.

[Atomic Cow]

You can open the door at 7000 feet, though you want to crank the selector to Manual before you try. It's the small handle - rotate it until the display window no longer shows a red flag. You do have the problem of pushing the door open - the vast majority of doors open forward, so you have the wind against you when you try. I guess it is technically possible with a couple of strong people and the plane at just above stalling speed.

Doors will, on occasion, open themselves. Wife had a flight once where they had to use the in flight briefing belts and a couple of extension belts to hold the lock handle in position. She found that somewhat scary. Back in 98 that was, on a brand new 777.

The plane is pressured to 8,000 feet so you can try to open it below that altitude.  Still a very bad idea to even attempt it.  I was referring to cruise altitude.

A door should never be able to open at cruise altitude due to the fact that it is a plug door, meaning it is pushing outward against the aircraft structure.  The force inside will hold it in place.  If the latching mechanism failed, it could possibly open once the pressure has equalized.

[DCPatriot]

The plane is pressured to 8,000 feet so you can try to open it below that altitude.  Still a very bad idea to even attempt it.  I was referring to cruise altitude.

A door should never be able to open at cruise altitude due to the fact that it is a plug door, meaning it is pushing outward against the aircraft structure.  The force inside will hold it in place.  If the latching mechanism failed, it could possibly open once the pressure has equalized.

So...IOW...in the movie "Air Force One", it was not possible to open the door...install a cable and leave the troubled jetliner for a rescue jet?     

[NavyCanDo]

You can open the door at 7000 feet, though you want to crank the selector to Manual before you try. It's the small handle - rotate it until the display window no longer shows a red flag. You do have the problem of pushing the door open - the vast majority of doors open forward, so you have the wind against you when you try. I guess it is technically possible with a couple of strong people and the plane at just above stalling speed.

Doors will, on occasion, open themselves. Wife had a flight once where they had to use the in flight briefing belts and a couple of extension belts to hold the lock handle in position. She found that somewhat scary. Back in 98 that was, on a brand new 777.

DB Cooper jumped at 10,000 feet.    Of course I still doubt there was enough manpower to throw over 200 people off the plane, so a really doubt they tried. They wanted a stealthy getaway. Leaving a trail of bodies which would float for days in that warm water would be like leaving a path to your door.

[EC]

DB Cooper jumped at 10,000 feet.    Of course I still doubt there was enough manpower to throw over 200 people off the plane, so a really doubt they tried. They wanted a stealthy getaway. Leaving a trail of bodies which would float for days in that warm water would be like leaving a path to your door.

Bodies may or may not float. Depends how lazy the local wildlife is. Feet always float if they are wearing running shoes,since the ankles are a weak point. Gives a whole new meaning to footprints.

[Atomic Cow]

DB Cooper jumped at 10,000 feet.    Of course I still doubt there was enough manpower to throw over 200 people off the plane, so a really doubt they tried. They wanted a stealthy getaway. Leaving a trail of bodies which would float for days in that warm water would be like leaving a path to your door.

Cooper jumped from a 727 via the rear air stairs while the aircraft was unpressurized and flying barely above stall speed.



Far different than the side doors on an aircraft.  After this hijacking, a device was installed to prevent the rear stairs door from being opened in flight.

[DCPatriot]

Cooper jumped from a 727 via the rear air stairs while the aircraft was unpressurized and flying barely above stall speed.



Far different than the side doors on an aircraft.  After this hijacking, a device was installed to prevent the rear stairs door from being opened in flight.

Does a 777 have "rear stairs"?   Couldn't a conspiratorial co-pilot/mechanic make sure that the stairs would open in flight?

[EC]

Does a 777 have "rear stairs"?   Couldn't a conspiratorial co-pilot/mechanic make sure that the stairs would open in flight?

Nope. 777's only have side doors. Each door (or pair of doors during in flight rest) is monitored by at least one member of the crew.

[NavyCanDo]

Nope. 777's only have side doors. Each door (or pair of doors during in flight rest) is monitored by at least one member of the crew.

All the more reason the thought of throwing 239 people out the plane is fantasy. Out of the 230 or so bodies not one hits the horizontal stabilizers, gets sucked into an engines or hits any of the control surfaces.  That is some good throwing.

[DCPatriot]

All the more reason the thought of throwing 239 people out the plane is fantasy. Out of the 230 or so bodies not one hits the horizontal stabilizers, gets sucked into an engines or hits any of the control surfaces.  That is some good throwing.

Maybe I watch too many movies.......LOL!

[NavyCanDo]

Those still stuck on the bodies were tossed out theory, go to a popular movie this weekend with a full theater like Robocop or 300, and as you sit there look around at all the people. You think you and a buddy could drag all those people out the exit door if they were incapacitated dead weight?  Unless you are a weight lifter you would probably be doubled over with back spasms or completely exhausted  before you can clear 2 rolls. 

On the lighter side, think of all the free popcorn you could have.

[olde north church]

All the more reason the thought of throwing 239 people out the plane is fantasy. Out of the 230 or so bodies not one hits the horizontal stabilizers, gets sucked into an engines or hits any of the control surfaces.  That is some good throwing.

You control the passengers the same way the Germans controlled the people in line at concentration camps, promises.  They'll get water "in just a moment", make a call "in just a moment", bathroom in "just a moment".