Author Topic: GOP immigration principles support legalization  (Read 3792 times)

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Offline MBB1984

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Re: GOP immigration principles support legalization
« Reply #25 on: January 31, 2014, 09:17:13 pm »
Try this. Ten cities with lowest crime in America. You'll like that Scottsdale AZ is on it.

But you will not like that 5 of the 10 are in California.

http://www.areavibes.com/library/10-cities-lowest-crime/

This criteria is places over 200,000. Years back, with a lower population criteria, Irvine CA and Huntington Beach CA went back and forth, for lowest crime rankings.

There are some very affluent areas remaining in California, and they have low crime rates.  However, they are hardly representative of Mexifornia as a whole. 

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: GOP immigration principles support legalization
« Reply #26 on: January 31, 2014, 09:26:09 pm »
and this has what to do with amnesty?  and I am more than familiar with Irvine having lived AND worked there... but your post has absolutely nothing to do with the subject - as usual.
It has everything to do with it, since you are suggesting California is already down the toilet with too many Hispanics in our midst, and the rest of the country is headed there, too.

Having lived and worked and been familiar with Irvine CA, you KNOW (or should know) it is not down the toilet, too.

You think posts are not relevant to topics, if you disagree with them.
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: GOP immigration principles support legalization
« Reply #27 on: January 31, 2014, 09:35:25 pm »
There are some very affluent areas remaining in California, and they have low crime rates.  However, they are hardly representative of Mexifornia as a whole.
"Mexifornia as a whole.."

You think such language is good for the future of the conservative movement?
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: GOP immigration principles support legalization
« Reply #28 on: January 31, 2014, 09:57:19 pm »
It has everything to do with it, since you are suggesting California is already down the toilet with too many Hispanics in our midst, and the rest of the country is headed there, too.

Having lived and worked and been familiar with Irvine CA, you KNOW (or should know) it is not down the toilet, too.

You think posts are not relevant to topics, if you disagree with them.

Are you denying that for 72 years California voted for Republicans and now the Republican party requires a search party to find the members in the state legislature and senate and they no longer vote Republican for President  - nor are they likely to do so again in our lifetime and that is all taken place since 1986 and Simpson_Mazoli?   Schwartzeneger claimed to be a Republican, but he turned out to be nothing more than a very progressive green energy guy.
�The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.� G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline aligncare

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Re: GOP immigration principles support legalization
« Reply #29 on: February 01, 2014, 04:28:29 am »
Mexico always said they wanted their land back. Son of a gun, if they haven't done it through the ballot box. Not a shot fired.

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: GOP immigration principles support legalization
« Reply #30 on: February 01, 2014, 04:30:29 am »
Mexico always said they wanted their land back. Son of a gun, if they haven't done it through the ballot box. Not a shot fired.

A large swath of land in SW Arizona is posted off-limits - not because it is Federal land, but because it has pretty much been taken over by smugglers and drug traffickers and is unsafe for American citizens.
�The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.� G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline aligncare

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Re: GOP immigration principles support legalization
« Reply #31 on: February 01, 2014, 04:40:16 am »
I realize that makes me sound xenophobic. But I'm not. I love the Mexican culture.

But, you see, Mexicans that are here illegally are not exactly coming here waving Red, White and Blue flags hopped up on becoming Americans. They came for the easy access to work. That's a different type of immigrant then those in the world that have traditionally come here legally.

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: GOP immigration principles support legalization
« Reply #32 on: February 01, 2014, 04:42:36 am »
I realize that makes me sound xenophobic. But I'm not. I love the Mexican culture.

But, you see, Mexicans that are here illegally are not exactly coming here waving Red, White and Blue flags hopped up on becoming Americans. They came for the easy access to work. That's a different type of immigrant then those in the world that have traditionally come here legally.


Same here, AC.  My best friend was born in Mexico, her family came here legally.  All speak English, assimilated, went to college, have successful careers or businesses and her parents are amazing people, I adore her father, such a gentleman... but the key here is a) came here legally, b) learned and speak English, c) got educated and the bad part d) they all voted for Obama.
�The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.� G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline aligncare

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Re: GOP immigration principles support legalization
« Reply #33 on: February 01, 2014, 04:58:03 am »

Same here, AC.  My best friend was born in Mexico, her family came here legally.  All speak English, assimilated, went to college, have successful careers or businesses and her parents are amazing people, I adore her father, such a gentleman... but the key here is a) came here legally, b) learned and speak English, c) got educated and the bad part d) they all voted for Obama.

Yep. As Ann Coulter points out in surveys, a high percentage will vote Democrat. We're losing our Constitution. That's a likely outcome that's closely tied to the immigration issue. That should concern all of us that love liberty and despise communism. We're losing our country for our children.

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: GOP immigration principles support legalization
« Reply #34 on: February 01, 2014, 05:00:36 am »
Yep. As Ann Coulter points out in surveys, a high percentage will vote Democrat. We're losing our Constitution. That's a likely outcome that's closely tied to the immigration issue. That should concern all of us that love liberty and despise communism. We're losing our country for our children.

Yep...   
 
�The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.� G Washington July 2, 1776

Oceander

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Re: GOP immigration principles support legalization
« Reply #35 on: February 01, 2014, 05:23:32 am »
I realize that makes me sound xenophobic. But I'm not. I love the Mexican culture.

But, you see, Mexicans that are here illegally are not exactly coming here waving Red, White and Blue flags hopped up on becoming Americans. They came for the easy access to work. That's a different type of immigrant then those in the world that have traditionally come here legally.

I beg to differ.  I've talked to any number of cab drivers - most from various countries in Africa - who came here because they could get good work and make a good life for themselves based on their own hard work.  They weren't particularly interested in becoming American in so many words - they were waving green, not red white and blue - but they were American in spirit: determined to make a better life for themselves and their families through their own hard work.

Most illegals come here for similar reasons:  to earn money they can't earn where they were raised in order to support their families; very few come here with the goal of becoming welfare queens.

But here's the rub:  draconian immigration laws don't stop them from coming, they simply drive them into the shadows, where they fall prey to liberals, and, quite honestly, it's not a mere matter of duplicity; in the public perception the alternative to the democrats/liberals and their feigned solicitousness is the republicans and their apparent hatred of hispanics, which - so the perception goes - extends not just to illegals, but to all hispanics generally.  Given those choices, whom would you choose to support if you were in their shoes?

So, you can choose the easy, emotionally satisfying path of enacting make-believe "seal the border" immigration laws that will not work, but that will make life a lot more uncomfortable for legal hispanics who happen to become suspected of being illegal, and for employers who are suspected of hiring or harboring illegals, and which most importantly will continue to drive hispanics, legal as well as illegal, into the waiting arms of democrats/liberals, or you can choose the much harder route of enacting rational immigration reform that - like judo - doesn't attempt to stop the river from flowing, but directs the flow of the river so that we know who's coming in, why, where they're going, what they're doing, and, most importantly, whether they've engaged in criminal activity, on a constantly updated basis.  It would also clearly foreclose the possibility of permanent residency and/or naturalization without such an individual applying for immigrant status and going through the entire greencard/naturalization process, just like any other potential immigrant.  And yes, since, like Jimi in all along the watchtower, we're no longer speaking falsely, this will be difficult because at least initially these new entrants will favor the democrats/liberals politically because that is where the current political momentum is, which means that we have to accept that we will initially be providing the democrats/liberals with a potentially larger voter base.  However, since these folks would now be legal, and could therefore come out of the shadows - and off the democrat/liberal plantation - that is, to actually have the opportunity to become Americans in substance - like the cab drivers I described above - which will result in many of them leaving the false promises of the democrats/liberals.

Are there risks?  Of course.  But there are risks either way, but keeping illegal immigrants confined to the shadows, and thus to the democrat/liberal plantation carries substantially greater risks than bringing them out of the shadows and streamlining the immigration process so that we will at least know who they are and what they're doing while they're here.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2014, 05:24:03 am by Oceander »

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: GOP immigration principles support legalization
« Reply #36 on: February 01, 2014, 11:17:14 pm »
I realize that makes me sound xenophobic. But I'm not. I love the Mexican culture.

It never crossed my mind Aligncare.

Quote
But, you see, Mexicans that are here illegally are not exactly coming here waving Red, White and Blue flags hopped up on becoming Americans.

You'd be suprised.  Many of them are very happy in America and want to stay.

Quote
They came for the easy access to work.

Well we could agree on "easier access to work."

Quote
That's a different type of immigrant then those in the world that have traditionally come here legally.

Really.  In the early 1900's The polacks invaded WI.  They came without papers to work the mines and saw mills and stayed in their own little Poland communities.  Many never learning English except a few phrases.  Their children learned English in their community school.  How are the Mexicans different?

Oceander

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Re: GOP immigration principles support legalization
« Reply #37 on: February 01, 2014, 11:19:36 pm »
It never crossed my mind Aligncare.

You'd be suprised.  Many of them are very happy in America and want to stay.

Well we could agree on "easier access to work."

Really.  In the early 1900's The polacks invaded WI.  They came without papers to work the mines and saw mills and stayed in their own little Poland communities.  Many never learning English except a few phrases.  Their children learned English in their community school.  How are the Mexicans different?

You and I rarely agree on much of anything, but on these points we are in complete agreement.

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: GOP immigration principles support legalization
« Reply #38 on: February 01, 2014, 11:41:31 pm »
The "Pollacks" were not here illegally.
�The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.� G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline katzenjammer

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Re: GOP immigration principles support legalization
« Reply #39 on: February 02, 2014, 01:21:21 am »
The "Pollacks" were not here illegally.

Yeah, seriously.  How about the wetbacks, spics, micks, chinks, dagos, ukies, hinies??

 :silly:
« Last Edit: February 02, 2014, 01:24:47 am by katzenjammer »

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: GOP immigration principles support legalization
« Reply #40 on: February 02, 2014, 02:40:49 am »
I've been thinking about this topic for years, and have not found the relevant "rules and regulations" for legal immigration prior to 1892, Ellis Island.

All my ancestors came well before that time. All of my wife's came after that time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_the_United_States
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: GOP immigration principles support legalization
« Reply #41 on: February 02, 2014, 04:33:50 am »
You and I rarely agree on much of anything, but on these points we are in complete agreement.

I think we agree on much.  Except agreeing on how much we agree on stuff.  Your post above was so good and so right that I'll probably quote it or steal it.

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: GOP immigration principles support legalization
« Reply #42 on: February 02, 2014, 04:40:56 am »
The "Pollacks" were not here illegally.
Neither were the slaves.  If the problem with illegals is only the change of immigration laws then the simple solution is to change the law.

There is no cultural difference between the people who live in little Mexico cities and the people who lived in little China or little Italy through out our history.

The GOPe intends to change the law and soon the ilegals will not be illegal. 

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: GOP immigration principles support legalization
« Reply #43 on: February 02, 2014, 04:51:53 am »
Catch-22 also catch-22  - Noun

: a difficult situation for which there is no easy or possible solution

1 :  a problematic situation for which the only solution is denied by a circumstance inherent in the problem or by a rule <the show-business catch–22—no work unless you have an agent, no agent unless you've worked — Mary Murphy>; also :  the circumstance or rule that denies a solution

2
a :  an illogical, unreasonable, or senseless situation
b :  a measure or policy whose effect is the opposite of what was intended
c :  a situation presenting two equally undesirable alternatives

3
:  a hidden difficulty or means of entrapment

Merriam-Webster

There is no upside to this debate for the GOP, which is why it's brought up during election cycles.

The desired outcome for the DNC this cycle is simple:


Immigration "reform" is how they do it.
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, i have others." - Groucho Marx

Offline aligncare

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Re: GOP immigration principles support legalization
« Reply #44 on: February 02, 2014, 01:13:43 pm »
My parents came to the US in 1956 with me in tow. Mom's family came here either before us or after us, but all came legally.

We lived in an Italian neighborhood in Brooklyn. My neighborhood friends' families were documented.

I guess I have a "distorted" view of what it means to be an immigrant.

Offline Lipstick on a Hillary

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Re: GOP immigration principles support legalization
« Reply #45 on: February 02, 2014, 01:43:14 pm »
and this has what to do with amnesty?  and I am more than familiar with Irvine having lived AND worked there... but your post has absolutely nothing to do with the subject - as usual.

Agree.   I can't remember the last time someone here associated Mexican increased illegal immigration with crime rates.   :wtf:

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: GOP immigration principles support legalization
« Reply #46 on: February 02, 2014, 09:43:33 pm »
My parents came to the US in 1956 with me in tow. Mom's family came here either before us or after us, but all came legally.

We lived in an Italian neighborhood in Brooklyn. My neighborhood friends' families were documented.

I guess I have a "distorted" view of what it means to be an immigrant.
My wife's mother from Italy came here with an arranged marriage to a native born American citizen, in 1946-47. He was born in Los Angeles to Italian immigrants that came here separately and married.

My mother in law's brother, came to North America, entered the US on tourist visas to see his sister, met a woman, and eventually found a way to enter and stay, legally. During his time, he went to Mexico, to Venezuela, and eventually learned that if he went to Cuba, he could enter the US and stay, legally.

He married the woman, who became a doctor, and lived out their days, as proud American citizens.

He was trained as a lawyer in Italy. BTW why did he want to leave Italy? Because he was drafted into the Italian army, taken POW, escaped. 
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: GOP immigration principles support legalization
« Reply #47 on: February 02, 2014, 10:23:03 pm »
Quote
He was trained as a lawyer in Italy. BTW why did he want to leave Italy? Because he was drafted into the Italian army, taken POW, escaped. 

Big difference between this and Mexicans sneaking across our border to have a anchor baby and collect welfare benefits and work as servant for cash under the table.
�The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.� G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: GOP immigration principles support legalization
« Reply #48 on: February 02, 2014, 11:55:35 pm »
My wife's mother from Italy came here with an arranged marriage to a native born American citizen, in 1946-47. He was born in Los Angeles to Italian immigrants that came here separately and married.

My mother in law's brother, came to North America, entered the US on tourist visas to see his sister, met a woman, and eventually found a way to enter and stay, legally. During his time, he went to Mexico, to Venezuela, and eventually learned that if he went to Cuba, he could enter the US and stay, legally.

He married the woman, who became a doctor, and lived out their days, as proud American citizens.

He was trained as a lawyer in Italy. BTW why did he want to leave Italy? Because he was drafted into the Italian army, taken POW, escaped.
Thank goodness your family found the loopholes in the immigration laws of the time.  No doubt the rich culture of your family has enhanced the way you color your reality, and one of the reasons why I find your posts so solidly balancing logic and humanity.

Offline Lipstick on a Hillary

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Re: GOP immigration principles support legalization
« Reply #49 on: February 03, 2014, 12:06:38 am »
While you're fawning over his logic, ask him what city crime rates have to do with amnesty.