Author Topic: Why Ted Cruz Is More Electable Than You Think  (Read 9483 times)

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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Why Ted Cruz Is More Electable Than You Think
« Reply #25 on: March 30, 2015, 09:05:29 pm »
I decided a long time ago that I would not allow a fan base to drive me away from somebody, but I can understand how it can happen.  I missed a whole generation of Frank Zappa that way.   :smokin:

Dude...

 :thud:
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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Why Ted Cruz Is More Electable Than You Think
« Reply #26 on: March 30, 2015, 09:06:19 pm »
I live in Phoenix.  We don't have a real Football team, so I don't get the analogy.   :shrug:

Wow.

Whatever you do, don't move to Jacksonville.
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Why Ted Cruz Is More Electable Than You Think
« Reply #27 on: March 30, 2015, 09:27:52 pm »
Wow.

Whatever you do, don't move to Jacksonville.
*bouche*
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Offline Fishrrman

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Re: Why Ted Cruz Is More Electable Than You Think
« Reply #28 on: March 31, 2015, 01:48:20 am »
Luis wrote:
[[ When Bush wins the nomination, your choice will be to vote for him, the Democrat or 3rd party. ]]

There is a fourth "choice" that you missed, Luis.

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Why Ted Cruz Is More Electable Than You Think
« Reply #29 on: March 31, 2015, 02:22:41 am »
Luis wrote:
[[ When Bush wins the nomination, your choice will be to vote for him, the Democrat or 3rd party. ]]

There is a fourth "choice" that you missed, Luis.

Not voting.

You missed it in my post.
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, i have others." - Groucho Marx

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Why Ted Cruz Is More Electable Than You Think
« Reply #30 on: March 31, 2015, 02:49:17 am »
Uh, no, that's how our electoral system works.  Secondly, for Pet's sake; get over it, I am NOT calling anyone names.  IF Bush wins the nomination, yes, I can either vote for him, a Democrat or 3rd party.  However, I will NOT vote for Bush.

Excuse me?

Then you go ahead and educate me on how it is that our electoral system works. Obviously my twenty-plus years working for campaigns and being a political junkie hasn't properly educated me on how it is that the system works.

Secondly, for Pet's sake; get over it, I am NOT calling anyone names.

That's a quote directly from your post.

Back in the halcyon days of Ole Dixie and well into the Jim Crow era, Southerners just didn't see why everyone took offense to their use of the word nigg@r.

Now here's you. Another direct quote from your post::

When Cruz becomes the nominee the Rhinocerotidae will have a choice.

That term has become so ingrained in your mind and in your persona, that it flows out of you just like nigg@r used to out of the mouths of Antebellum and Jim Crow Southerners. You don't see a thing wrong with it.

You use that world and apply it to people in order to color them in a negative light. It permeates nearly every one of your posts. RINOs, to you, are contemptible people that should be chastised for their pack of moral values and convictions.

RINO is a pejorative term, a slur, and it's been that since the acronym first surfaced in the 1920's, so when you use that name to describe an individual or a group of individuals, you use it with the intention of demeaning them.

You can't change history and the language just because you're as comfortable with the use of the word RINo as Huck Finn was using the word nigg@r.
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, i have others." - Groucho Marx

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Why Ted Cruz Is More Electable Than You Think
« Reply #31 on: March 31, 2015, 03:50:00 am »
I will vote for Bush, or for any Republican that gets the nomination, because he/she will be better for AMERICA than any democrat or 3rd party exhibitionist crackpot, period.

That is simply plain olde common sense politics.

"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: Why Ted Cruz Is More Electable Than You Think
« Reply #32 on: March 31, 2015, 04:39:04 am »
Excuse me?

Then you go ahead and educate me on how it is that our electoral system works. Obviously my twenty-plus years working for campaigns and being a political junkie hasn't properly educated me on how it is that the system works.

Secondly, for Pet's sake; get over it, I am NOT calling anyone names.

That's a quote directly from your post.

Back in the halcyon days of Ole Dixie and well into the Jim Crow era, Southerners just didn't see why everyone took offense to their use of the word nigg@r.

Now here's you. Another direct quote from your post::

When Cruz becomes the nominee the Rhinocerotidae will have a choice.

That term has become so ingrained in your mind and in your persona, that it flows out of you just like nigg@r used to out of the mouths of Antebellum and Jim Crow Southerners. You don't see a thing wrong with it.

You use that world and apply it to people in order to color them in a negative light. It permeates nearly every one of your posts. RINOs, to you, are contemptible people that should be chastised for their pack of moral values and convictions.

Rhinocerotidae is a pejorative term, a slur, and it's been that since the acronym first surfaced in the 1920's, so when you use that name to describe an individual or a group of individuals, you use it with the intention of demeaning them.

You can't change history and the language just because you're as comfortable with the use of the word Rhinocerotidae as Huck Finn was using the word nigg@r.

So spot on that I wish I had written that.  Well worth reading twice.  I'm probably gonna steal that analogy.

If I used inflammatory labels like "knuckle dragging mouth breathing So-Con", or "Tea-Birchers" every post I suspect center right Republicans would be uncomfortable agreeing with my comments and I would piss off the hard right.  What would I win? 

There is a contempt of "RINOs" by the hard right that is stupid and suicidal.  From the far right perspective a "RINO" is a cancer that eats away at conservatism from the inside.  In reality a "RINO" is the best you can get in liberal districts or states like NY, CA, or NJ, and those "RINOs" mean the difference between Speaker Boehner and Speaker Pelosi.  The funny thing is, some on the far right fringe can't see a difference between Speaker Boehner and Speaker Pelosi.  They are so far removed from the center that they have a poor perspective with which to gauge the difference.



Offline Fishrrman

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Re: Why Ted Cruz Is More Electable Than You Think
« Reply #33 on: March 31, 2015, 04:49:44 am »
Once-Ler wrote above:
[[ If I used inflammatory labels like "knuckle dragging mouth breathing So-Con", or "Tea-Birchers" every post I suspect center right Republicans would be uncomfortable agreeing with my comments and I would piss off the hard right. ]]

You're perfectly welcome to use such a description in reference to me, I'll be the first to admit I'm a cross between a troglodyte and a neanderthal -- and proud of it!

Fishrrman "working on" his keyboard:


Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: Why Ted Cruz Is More Electable Than You Think
« Reply #34 on: March 31, 2015, 04:58:47 am »
You're perfectly welcome to use such a description in reference to me, I'll be the first to admit I'm a cross between a troglodyte and a neanderthal -- and proud of it!

Thank you for the permission, and I rejoice in your pride.

Offline aligncare

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Re: Why Ted Cruz Is More Electable Than You Think
« Reply #35 on: March 31, 2015, 07:44:38 am »
I would never call anyone on this forum RINOs – that would be rude.  But, I sure as heck harbor a strong opinion that many republicans in Washington power circles are exactly that, bad-for-the-country RINOs.

Offline DCPatriot

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Re: Why Ted Cruz Is More Electable Than You Think
« Reply #36 on: March 31, 2015, 09:49:21 am »
I will vote for Bush, or for any Republican that gets the nomination, because he/she will be better for AMERICA than any democrat or 3rd party exhibitionist crackpot, period.

That is simply plain olde common sense politics.

Word!    :beer:
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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Why Ted Cruz Is More Electable Than You Think
« Reply #37 on: March 31, 2015, 12:50:41 pm »
The DEMS haven't made any announcements and it appears that Hillary may be kept busy for a bit. "3rd party exhibitionist crackpot" is name-calling by the way, so it's fair play when I mention Rhinocerotidae.   I sure as hell would vote for a 3rd party candidate over Bush.

Yet, you have the gall to call others Republicans in Name Only.
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, i have others." - Groucho Marx

Online Lando Lincoln

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Re: Why Ted Cruz Is More Electable Than You Think
« Reply #38 on: March 31, 2015, 01:22:58 pm »
To me, it is unfathomably obvious that a 3rd party vote is one that is pissed away. To me, that is.
There are some among us who live in rooms of experience we can never enter.
John Steinbeck

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Why Ted Cruz Is More Electable Than You Think
« Reply #39 on: March 31, 2015, 01:25:52 pm »
The DEMS haven't made any announcements and it appears that Hillary may be kept busy for a bit. "3rd party exhibitionist crackpot" is name-calling by the way, so it's fair play when I mention Rhinocerotidae.   I sure as hell would vote for a 3rd party candidate over Bush.

I posted this earlier on another thread.

Here's an online review of a book you should read. I assume that you read stuff other than what's posted in these forums and WND. The book is called "Conservative Hurricane. How Jeb Bush Remade Florida."

Quote
This is an at-times-dry but generally useful assessment of Jeb Bush's eight years as governor of Florida. After a couple of introductory chapters covering the history of Florida and of the Republican Party, the author, a professor of political science, makes the case that Bush turned Florida into "an executive-driven conservative public-policy showcase."

On economic policy, Mr. Bush turned Florida, which already had no state income tax, into an even lower-tax state by implementing what Professor Corrigan describes as “the largest tax cut in Florida’s history,” a reduction of about $20 billion. Tort reform capped punitive damages for businesses. He privatized the state government’s personnel department, its child protective services, its prison food services, its Medicaid program, and its defense of death-row inmates.

The state government workforce was reduced by 12%, as Mr. Bush pursued a goal he set out in his second inaugural address: “I look forward to the time when these buildings of government are empty. There would be no greater tribute to our maturity as a society than if we can make these buildings around us empty of workers — silent monuments to the time when government played a larger role than it deserved or could adequately fill.”

On education reform, Mr. Bush gave schools A through F letter grades based on student test scores, gave students in failing schools vouchers for private schools, and implemented merit pay for teachers. Test scores jumped, as did high school graduation rates.

On social issues, Mr. Bush put an emphasis on life. The state issued optional “choose life” license plates, passed a parental notification law for minors who wanted abortions, and restricted late-term “partial-birth” abortions. He went to great lengths in an ultimately fruitless attempt to prevent Terri Schiavo’s husband from having Schiavo’s feeding tube removed.

He created two “faith-based prisons” over the objections of the American Civil Liberties Union. By executive order, he eliminated race and gender-based affirmative action in public college admissions and in state contracting, denouncing a sit-in protest by two black lawmakers as “childish.”

Mr. Bush backed gun rights by supporting a “stand-your-ground” law, signing legislation preventing gun ranges for being sued for causing pollution, requiring stores that sell hunting and fishing licenses to make voter registration applications available, and exempting concealed-weapons licenses from disclosure under the state’s public records laws.

Philosophically, as Professor Corrigan describes it, Mr. Bush saw big government as eroding character and virtue. Bush is certainly no pure libertarian; among other things, he approved half a billion in state and local incentives to lure the non-profit Scripps Research Institute to Palm Beach County from California. While Mr. Bush used his line item veto to block hundreds of millions in spending approved by his Republican legislature, the state budget overall did increase on his watch to about $74 billion from about $49 billion, according to Mr. Corrigan. Some of that increase was hurricane relief and Medicaid, partially reimbursed by the federal government, and it also came at a time when the value of the dollar was declining relative to gold.

Professor Corrigan, who teaches political science and public administration at the University of North Florida, delivers a sometimes critical but nonetheless generally admiring portrait of Mr. Bush’s record as governor from 1999 to 2007. The point is that, like his record or hate it, Mr. Bush's policy accomplishments were substantial.

Jeb is socially conservative.

He is staunchly pro life.

He is fiscally conservative.

He is a tax cutter.

He is pro business.

He believes in smaller government.

He is pro 2nd Amendment.

Most importantly, he's actually DONE all of these things as an Executive. He's not just talking about what he would do if he were an Executive.

And unlike any other GOP candidate or possible candidate, we know EXACTLY where he stands on EVERY FACET of the issue of immigration.

P.S. Here's what Ted Cruz had to say about Jeb's other issue... Common Core during his candidacy announcement:

Instead of a federal government that seeks to dictate school curriculum through Common Core... imagine repealing every word of Common Core.

Cruz apparently thinks that the Common Core is embedded in a federal law that can be repealed. It isn't. The federal government is forbidden by the Elementary and Secondary Education Act of 1965 from  dictating school curriculum.

The Common Core State Standards initiative is a series of K-12 standards in math and English Language Arts and aligned standardized testing that was set in place by the National Governor's Association. It was fully adopted by 45 States making this Common Core an exercise in Federalism. It is not a curriculum. The States set the curriculum.

Now, "conservatives" are supporting the idea of engaging the Federal government in overturning a bipartisan exercise in Federalism and calling Jeb Bush a liberal for supporting Federalism.

That's just ignorant.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2015, 01:34:20 pm by Luis Gonzalez »
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Offline Relic

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Re: Why Ted Cruz Is More Electable Than You Think
« Reply #40 on: March 31, 2015, 01:51:54 pm »
Jeb Bush the Republican has two major issues.

Can you guess what they are?

I don't back anyone, I'm not picking anyone, but I do know Jeb Bush has no chance to win the general election. None. Zero. Zilch. Nada.

If, by some odd happenstance, Jeb wins the nomination, I'd be willing to wager on the outcome of the general election.

Offline Fishrrman

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Re: Why Ted Cruz Is More Electable Than You Think
« Reply #41 on: March 31, 2015, 02:31:41 pm »
Luis wrote above:
[[ Yet, you have the gall to call others Republicans in Name Only ]]

Let's examine those four words a bit more closely:
"Republicans -- in -- name -- only".

What is this term intended to define or describe?

To me it connotes:
1. an elected official or member of a political party,
2. who choses to call himself or herself a "Republican",
3. ...but who doesn't otherwise ACT in a manner consistent with that which Republicans (even so-called "moderate" Republicans) normally conduct themselves,
4. and by his/her behavior seems to resemble (in a political manner) a member of "the other" major political party, and by such behavior advances the agenda of that other party.

Points 1 and 2 are not to be argued. They simply "are".
Points 3 and 4 are subject to a degree of interpretation. Nevertheless I content that they comprise a modestly accurate description and therefore valid to my definition.

So.

"Republican in name only", while it can certainly be used with a measure of scorn to sharpen the barbs, remains an accurate term by which to describe a certain type of political behavior that is unique to some members of the Republican Party.

Again:
[[ Yet, you have the gall to call others Republicans in Name Only ]]

Brings to mind a line by a [far leftist] singer-songwriter I always kinda liked by the name of Phil Ochs. In one of his better-known songs, Phil wrote:
Call it peace or call it treason,
call it love or call it reason,
But I ain't a-marchin' any more.


Call it gall or whatever you wish.
I call it the freedom to speak one's mind.

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Why Ted Cruz Is More Electable Than You Think
« Reply #42 on: March 31, 2015, 02:49:05 pm »
Luis wrote above:
[[ Yet, you have the gall to call others Republicans in Name Only ]]

Let's examine those four words a bit more closely:
"Republicans -- in -- name -- only".

What is this term intended to define or describe?

To me it connotes:
1. an elected official or member of a political party,
2. who choses to call himself or herself a "Republican",
3. ...but who doesn't otherwise ACT in a manner consistent with that which Republicans (even so-called "moderate" Republicans) normally conduct themselves,
4. and by his/her behavior seems to resemble (in a political manner) a member of "the other" major political party, and by such behavior advances the agenda of that other party.

Points 1 and 2 are not to be argued. They simply "are".
Points 3 and 4 are subject to a degree of interpretation. Nevertheless I content that they comprise a modestly accurate description and therefore valid to my definition.

So.

"Republican in name only", while it can certainly be used with a measure of scorn to sharpen the barbs, remains an accurate term by which to describe a certain type of political behavior that is unique to some members of the Republican Party.

Again:
[[ Yet, you have the gall to call others Republicans in Name Only ]]

Brings to mind a line by a [far leftist] singer-songwriter I always kinda liked by the name of Phil Ochs. In one of his better-known songs, Phil wrote:
Call it peace or call it treason,
call it love or call it reason,
But I ain't a-marchin' any more.


Call it gall or whatever you wish.
I call it the freedom to speak one's mind.

The GOP is a political coalition made up of left of center thinking politicians.

Some are way closer to the center than others, and in the case of social issues, some could be considered to be left of center by to the more conservative members of the coalition. Republicans from the more liberal States are there to represent the points of view of the people who elected them, not to advance the ideology of people from other, more conservative States.

Where you and all others who think like you think go wrong, is believing that the Republican Party is there to support a strictly conservative agenda, as defined by the most conservative members of the Party.

That's not the truth at all, and the reason why that is not the truth is that the most conservative faction of the GOP is in a minority.

The single most important and relevant sentence in your entire post is this one:

Nevertheless I (am) content that they comprise a modestly accurate description and therefore valid to my definition.

YOUR definition is not THE definition of the Republican Party.

It's just yours and not actually in concert with the actual definition of what the Republican Party is.

You can stand up in the middle of the Town Square all day long proclaiming that the Earth is flat. You have the right to stand there and speak your mind.

That however, doesn't make the Earth flat.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2015, 02:49:26 pm by Luis Gonzalez »
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Offline Longiron

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Re: Why Ted Cruz Is More Electable Than You Think
« Reply #43 on: March 31, 2015, 02:50:39 pm »
The DEMS haven't made any announcements and it appears that Hillary may be kept busy for a bit. "3rd party exhibitionist crackpot" is name-calling by the way, so it's fair play when I mention Rhinocerotidae.   I sure as hell would vote for a 3rd party candidate over Bush.

DITTO But the RINO has to hide somewhere with anyone but a DEM. This is how we got into this mess??? **nononono*

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Why Ted Cruz Is More Electable Than You Think
« Reply #44 on: March 31, 2015, 03:59:47 pm »
I see this discussion is still going on.  An owner of this forum, a very dear friend, has requested the term "Rhinocerotidae" and it's variants not be applied to individuals in the course of debate, and I intend to respect that request.

That said, I'd like to deliver a humble opinion on the matter.  I am one of those "conservatives."  A TEA Party type person.  I have always considered the GOP, home of Lincoln, Reagan and others as the home of conservatives in general.  Hence, the term "Republican In Name Only" seemed to fit the more liberal of our contingent.  Over recent years, I've been recalibrating my interpretation of that term, and when I find the leader of our party in the Senate openly declaring war on the TEA Party, and when I find the Speaker of the House, a Republican, fishing in the pool of Democrats and Nancy Pelosi for votes he knows he won't get from the right wing of his party, then this is my conclusion:

I am the Rhinocerotidae.  I won't be calling anybody else one for a good long time.

(If Bush wins the nomination of the GOP for President, I'll vote for him.  He might be misguided on some issues, but Dems are evil and must be stopped.)

Edited to add:  I did not type the word "Rhinocerotidae," so I assume the forum software is replacing the four-letter acronym I used.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2015, 04:27:22 pm by Cyber Liberty »
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Offline Fishrrman

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Re: Why Ted Cruz Is More Electable Than You Think
« Reply #45 on: April 01, 2015, 01:42:49 am »
Luis wrote above:
[[ The GOP is a political coalition made up of left of center thinking politicians. ]]

Well, speak for yourself Luis.
I'm not going to get in your way!

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Why Ted Cruz Is More Electable Than You Think
« Reply #46 on: April 01, 2015, 02:24:52 am »
Luis wrote above:
[[ The GOP is a political coalition made up of left of center thinking politicians. ]]

Well, speak for yourself Luis.
I'm not going to get in your way!

It's a typo.

Get over yourself.
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, i have others." - Groucho Marx

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Re: Why Ted Cruz Is More Electable Than You Think
« Reply #47 on: April 02, 2015, 12:52:26 am »
It's a typo.

Get over yourself.

quite a doozy of a typo!  :silly:

Online Lando Lincoln

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Re: Why Ted Cruz Is More Electable Than You Think
« Reply #48 on: April 02, 2015, 01:00:41 am »
quite a doozy of a typo!  :silly:

The mind does that sometimes.
There are some among us who live in rooms of experience we can never enter.
John Steinbeck

Oceander

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Re: Why Ted Cruz Is More Electable Than You Think
« Reply #49 on: April 02, 2015, 01:07:26 am »
The mind does that sometimes.

That's why I gave mine up years ago:  I don't even miss it!