Author Topic: Texas judge warned over refusal to perform same-sex marriages  (Read 1009 times)

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Online Bigun

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Re: Texas judge warned over refusal to perform same-sex marriages
« Reply #25 on: December 04, 2019, 02:07:37 PM »
Texas Constitution

Article 1, Sec 32

Sec. 32.  MARRIAGE.  (a)  Marriage in this state shall consist only of the union of one man and one woman.

(b)  This state or a political subdivision of this state may not create or recognize any legal status identical or similar to marriage. 


@Hoodat given that, how does a couple outside of that very clear definition even get a marriage license in Texas?  Seems to me that should be impossible.


https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/CN/htm/CN.1.htm

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Texas judge warned over refusal to perform same-sex marriages
« Reply #26 on: December 04, 2019, 02:17:19 PM »
Are you referring to Part (b)?  It is drawing a line between 'marriage' and 'anything other than marriage as defined in Part (a)'.
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Online Bigun

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Re: Texas judge warned over refusal to perform same-sex marriages
« Reply #27 on: December 04, 2019, 02:22:41 PM »
Are you referring to Part (b)?  It is drawing a line between 'marriage' and 'anything other than marriage as defined in Part (a)'.

Both Parts would seem to preclude the state from issuing a Marriage License to those who do not conform to the very clear definition in part (a).

Online sneakypete

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Re: Texas judge warned over refusal to perform same-sex marriages
« Reply #28 on: December 04, 2019, 02:36:41 PM »
@sneakypete

Can you please cite this "law" that the judge is breaking?  Thanks.

@Hoodat

I could if I were willing to go back and look at it all,but my memory sucks now,and I have better things to do with my time than argue with some fool about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Texas judge warned over refusal to perform same-sex marriages
« Reply #29 on: December 04, 2019, 02:39:54 PM »
@Hoodat

I could if I were willing to go back and look at it all,

In order to save precious time, let me help you out with that one.  You can't because no such law exists.  Sure, you may 'feel' such a law exists.  But it would definitely be a waste of your time to prove that which cannot be proved.  (But hey, why let facts get in the way of feelings.)
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Online sneakypete

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Re: Texas judge warned over refusal to perform same-sex marriages
« Reply #30 on: December 04, 2019, 02:45:52 PM »
In order to save precious time, let me help you out with that one.  You can't because no such law exists.  Sure, you may 'feel' such a law exists.  But it would definitely be a waste of your time to prove that which cannot be proved.  (But hey, why let facts get in the way of feelings.)

@Hoodat

Admit it,you don't give a shit about morality. All you care about is scoring points to justify your superstition.
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Texas judge warned over refusal to perform same-sex marriages
« Reply #31 on: December 04, 2019, 02:47:00 PM »
@Hoodat

Admit it,you don't give a shit about morality. All you care about is scoring points to justify your superstition.

What does morality have to do with the Texas Constitution?

Let's review, shall we?  My position is one based purely on written law.  It is this written law that is the sole premise upon which my argument is founded.  Compare that with yours.  Your argument has zero factual basis, but is instead based solely on what you believe to be true - in other words, based on your personal morality.  So it is YOU that is trying to impose your foundationless morality on me, not the other way around.

So if you want to engage in this discussion without morality involved, then you will come up with the law that this judge allegedly violated.  Because without that, you have nothing.  And your denial of that illustrates that you are stuck waging some sort of morality contest with zero factual basis.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2019, 02:51:52 PM by Hoodat »
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Online sneakypete

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Re: Texas judge warned over refusal to perform same-sex marriages
« Reply #32 on: December 04, 2019, 02:48:04 PM »
What does morality have to do with the Texas Constitution?

@Hoodat


What do you care about the Texas Constitution,unless it happens to back your religious superstitions?
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Texas judge warned over refusal to perform same-sex marriages
« Reply #33 on: December 04, 2019, 02:56:50 PM »
What do you care about the Texas Constitution,unless it happens to back your religious superstitions?

You lost me.  What does religion have to do with this?  Texas law is quite clear.  This judge is being wrongly accused of breaking the law.  If this case were in Vermont instead, I would be agreeing that the judge is violating the law, primarily because there is an actual Vermont law that can be produced detailing said violation.

In both instances, I side with the law.  Contrast that with you who chooses sides based solely on moral judgment with zero regard to the existence of written law.  So how about focusing on the facts here instead of pushing your moral judgments onto others.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Texas judge warned over refusal to perform same-sex marriages
« Reply #34 on: December 04, 2019, 03:41:57 PM »
The Texas law is trumped by the Federal Constitution.   A state's civil marriage requirements must conform to the Federal Constitution's guarantee of the law's equal protection.

 

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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Texas judge warned over refusal to perform same-sex marriages
« Reply #35 on: December 04, 2019, 03:47:15 PM »
The Texas law is trumped by the Federal Constitution.

Here's what the US Constitution says:


The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.


Can you please pinpoint the part of the Constitution that trumps the Texas Constitution regarding that State's right to define marriage?  Thanks.

A state's civil marriage requirements must conform to the Federal Constitution's guarantee of the law's equal protection.

The Texas requirement applies equally to everyone.  It does conform to equal protection.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Texas judge warned over refusal to perform same-sex marriages
« Reply #36 on: December 04, 2019, 03:50:10 PM »
I gave you the answer.  If you don't want to accept it, fine,  but I am not going to waste time indulging your silliness.   
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Texas judge warned over refusal to perform same-sex marriages
« Reply #37 on: December 04, 2019, 03:52:06 PM »
Or, resign as a judge if one cannot in good conscience follow the law.   I don't fault the judge for her moral viewpoints,  but she should not victimize those citizens of Texas who seek to be married in accordance with the law as it stands.   If she wants to ascend her moral high-horse, then fine,  but her stand on principle should consist of her resignation.   
I'd bet dimes to dollars this isn't the only judge.

This reeks of the targeting formerly reserved for bakers and wedding photographers.
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Texas judge warned over refusal to perform same-sex marriages
« Reply #38 on: December 04, 2019, 03:57:58 PM »
I gave you the answer.

No you did not.  You simply tossed out the term "Federal Constitution" as if the sheer utterance of it proved your case.  It doesn't.  If there is something in the Constitution itself that this judge violated, then cite it.  Make your case.  Provide the evidence.  Because without it, it is just your opinion against the Bill of Rights and the Texas Constitution.


If you don't want to accept it, fine

There is nothing to accept other than you tossing out the term "Federal Constitution".


but I am not going to waste time indulging your silliness.

The silly one would be the person here making baseless statements about this case.  But then we've been here before.   Again and again.  And each and every time, you bring nothing to the table other than your empty insistence that you are right, while denying the very wording of the Constitution of the United States of America.  To hell with your tyranny.

If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

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Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Texas judge warned over refusal to perform same-sex marriages
« Reply #39 on: December 04, 2019, 07:17:38 PM »
No you did not.  You simply tossed out the term "Federal Constitution" as if the sheer utterance of it proved your case.  It doesn't.  If there is something in the Constitution itself that this judge violated, then cite it.  Make your case.  Provide the evidence.  Because without it, it is just your opinion against the Bill of Rights and the Texas Constitution.


There is nothing to accept other than you tossing out the term "Federal Constitution".


The silly one would be the person here making baseless statements about this case.  But then we've been here before.   Again and again.  And each and every time, you bring nothing to the table other than your empty insistence that you are right, while denying the very wording of the Constitution of the United States of America.  To hell with your tyranny.
Some do not believe the freedoms cited in the US Constitution apply equally to both sides. 

And that will be the ultimate downfall of those who choose to selectively use the Constitution for their own purposes.
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Texas judge warned over refusal to perform same-sex marriages
« Reply #40 on: December 04, 2019, 07:24:03 PM »
Some do not believe the freedoms cited in the US Constitution apply equally to both sides. 

And that will be the ultimate downfall of those who choose to selectively use the Constitution for their own purposes.

The only part of the Constitution that they are using is the word "constitution".
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Texas judge warned over refusal to perform same-sex marriages
« Reply #41 on: December 05, 2019, 07:53:28 AM »
@Smokin Joe

That one seems to  have retired hundreds of years ago.
Nah. He's still around.
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Texas judge warned over refusal to perform same-sex marriages
« Reply #42 on: December 05, 2019, 08:27:01 AM »
Some do not believe the freedoms cited in the US Constitution apply equally to both sides. 

And that will be the ultimate downfall of those who choose to selectively use the Constitution for their own purposes.

Baloney.   A judge doesn't have the "freedom" to ignore the law.   She made an oath to uphold and follow the law.   If she cannot square that oath with her conscience then she is obliged to resign.   The citizens of Texas are the aggrieved ones here, not this virtue-signaling "judge".   Those citizens have the right to the equal and fair administration of the law, including to marry who they love consistent with the Federal Constitution's guarantee of equal protection.   

Same sex marriage is the law.   Get over it.   
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Texas judge warned over refusal to perform same-sex marriages
« Reply #43 on: December 05, 2019, 08:30:04 AM »
  But then we've been here before.   Again and again.  And each and every time, you bring nothing to the table other than your empty insistence that you are right, while denying the very wording of the Constitution of the United States of America.  To hell with your tyranny.

Yeah, right.  *****rollingeyes*****   My  "empty insistence" is only backed up by the Federal Constitution and the United States Supreme Court.

Same sex marriage is the law.  Get over it.   
"He was born poor, died rich, and never hurt anyone along the way"

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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Texas judge warned over refusal to perform same-sex marriages
« Reply #44 on: December 05, 2019, 08:30:25 AM »
Baloney.   A judge doesn't have the "freedom" to ignore the law.   She made an oath to uphold and follow the law.   If she cannot square that oath with her conscience then she is obliged to resign.   The citizens of Texas are the aggrieved ones here, not this virtue-signaling "judge".   Those citizens have the right to the equal and fair administration of the law, including to marry who they love consistent with the Federal Constitution's guarantee of equal protection.   

Same sex marriage is the law.   Get over it.
Which law, because it isn't Texas Law.

BTW, homosexuals are still free to marry, just not another person of the same sex. Which is the same rule Heterosexuals have.

Being free to own a car doesn't mean you automatically get a Rolls Royce.
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Texas judge warned over refusal to perform same-sex marriages
« Reply #45 on: December 05, 2019, 08:34:30 AM »
Which law, because it isn't Texas Law.

BTW, homosexuals are still free to marry, just not another person of the same sex. Which is the same rule Heterosexuals have.

The cited Texas law is unconstitutional.   You appear to take seriously the notion that your gun rights are defended against encroachment by the Federal Constitution.  If that's the case, then why not this couple's right to marry?   It's the same old story - rights for me but not for thee.   

Let me be clear -  I do not dispute the sincerity of this judge's religious beliefs.  She is entitled to them, same as you or me.  But as an officer of the court, she is obliged to uphold and administer the law,  or else resign if she cannot.   
"He was born poor, died rich, and never hurt anyone along the way"

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"Not forever.  Just for now"

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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Texas judge warned over refusal to perform same-sex marriages
« Reply #46 on: December 05, 2019, 08:41:13 AM »
The cited Texas law is unconstitutional.   You appear to take seriously the notion that your gun rights are defended against encroachment by the Federal Constitution.  If that's the case, then why not this couple's right to marry?   It's the same old story - rights for me but not for thee.   

Let me be clear -  I do not dispute the sincerity of this judge's religious beliefs.  She is entitled to them, same as you or me.  But as an officer of the court, she is obliged to uphold and administer the law,  or else resign if she cannot.   
First and foremost, my gun rights are defended by not just my gun, but the community of people who own guns who similarly will stand up for those rights with whatever means necessary.
Like I said before, this whole thing reeks of targeting a Christian Judge, like homosexuals have targeted Christian Bakers, Photographers, and others in an effort to coerce Christians to apostasy or unemployment.
It's wrong, an abuse of the Constitution, an effort to codify an anti-religion, and I expect you know that. There are plenty of judges in the country, why target this one?
Now if Congress can make no law (with respect to religion), kindly tell me where the courts, which are NOT empowered to make law, can.
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Texas judge warned over refusal to perform same-sex marriages
« Reply #47 on: December 05, 2019, 08:49:24 AM »

Like I said before, this whole thing reeks of targeting a Christian Judge, like homosexuals have targeted Christian Bakers, Photographers, and others in an effort to coerce Christians to apostasy or unemployment.

Different issue.  A judge has sworn an oath to uphold the law.   And the law is perfectly clear - same sex marriage is lawful in all states that recognize and afford valuable benefits and protections to the status of civil marriage.

The law is unsettled whether a business owner can discriminate against gays on the basis of religion.   Not so for this judge - her duty under the law is clear.   If that conflicts with her self-perceived duty to God, then she should gladly resign.   What she should not be able to do is victimize the citizens of Texas by administering the law on a selective basis.     
"He was born poor, died rich, and never hurt anyone along the way"

   - Duke Ellington, upon hearing of the death of Louis Armstrong

"Not forever.  Just for now"

    - Jay Farrar

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Texas judge warned over refusal to perform same-sex marriages
« Reply #48 on: December 05, 2019, 08:52:00 AM »
First and foremost, my gun rights are defended by not just my gun, but the community of people who own guns who similarly will stand up for those rights with whatever means necessary.

And those rights are also protected by the Federal Constitution, against a state that would otherwise encroach upon them.   I assume you support that.   Again -  why are your rights more deserving of the Constitution's protection than this couple's right to marry?   

It is the hypocrisy that I object to.   
"He was born poor, died rich, and never hurt anyone along the way"

   - Duke Ellington, upon hearing of the death of Louis Armstrong

"Not forever.  Just for now"

    - Jay Farrar

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Texas judge warned over refusal to perform same-sex marriages
« Reply #49 on: December 05, 2019, 08:52:20 AM »
Different issue.  A judge has sworn an oath to uphold the law.   And the law is perfectly clear - same sex marriage is lawful in all states that recognize and afford valuable benefits and protections to the status of civil marriage.

The law is unsettled whether a business owner can discriminate against gays on the basis of religion.   Not so for this judge - her duty under the law is clear.   If that conflicts with her self-perceived duty to God, then she should gladly resign.   What she should not be able to do is victimize the citizens of Texas by administering the law on a selective basis.     
Which law?

Texas Law, check!
Yet you say Texas can't make their own laws?
Why, because some judge elsewhere said so?

As I said, If Congress can make no law with respect to religion, why should the courts (which are not empowered to make law) be able to do so?
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression


There are no "Socialists", no "Progressives", only Communists, with every negative image that totalitarianism might muster, demanding fealty and conformity to their views, with a legacy of 150,000,000 dead and counting.


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