Remains of missing Utah student Mackenzie Lueck found in Salt Lake City

[240B]

I understand your POV, but I'm trying to point  out to you that it is based on your anecdotal data, or the information that you choose to remember.  By stating that women in general are mercenary in their relations to men is to tar most of us with your cynicism when we don't deserve that cynicism at all.  I can buy my own meals and do so.  I don't have to put up with men I don't like to have a nice meal, and I suspect that most of our TBR women don't either.

Never referred to all women or to TBR women. What I said was most women on dating sites are looking for a rich successful man. And that is a true statement. Unlike a coworker, or a friend, or a Church group, a dating site offers a virtually unlimited supply for selection. This will cause most women (and men) to behave as if they are shopping for a car. They will look for the best value, the best deal, of the bunch. And this is completely normal behavior.

[jmyrlefuller]

You're equating sugar-baby prostitution with dating?

Like I said, after the recession, there isn't much of a difference anymore.

[goatprairie]

MONEY and power is the ultimate aphrodisiac to almost any woman.

If you read the comics of Robert Crumb the famous "underground" cartoonist, in a number of his comics he railed against the fact that many women are attracted to powerful males even ones who are violent.
He told the tale of a high school bully who beat up his brother. Many girls in his school were attracted to the bully. Crumb couldn't understand it...why didn't they like nice guys like him?
Before he became famous,  Crumb was a skinny dweeb who couldn't attract the women he craved.
After he became famous, he had to beat them off with a stick...figuratively speaking. He still looked like a skinny dweeb, but he was now famous and set out to get revenge, sex-wise, on all the women who previously ignored him.
In one of his comics he exploded in rage at all the females who loved powerful, often violent, amoral men. But with his high sex drive, he, himself, didn't shirk from pursuing and bedding them.
Some people might condemn Crumb for being amoral himself, but he did have a point...many women pursue powerful, wealthy men despite many of the men being amoral jerks. That's just the way of the world.

[Sanguine]

Like I said, after the recession, there isn't much of a difference anymore.

Which one @jmyrlefuller?  We have recessions on a pretty regular basis. 

[jmyrlefuller]

Which one @jmyrlefuller?  We have recessions on a pretty regular basis.

The 2008/2009 one.

[Sanguine]

The 2008/2009 one.

Ah.  Well, if someone bases their morality on recessions, they don't have any morals.   

The one thing you can count on in this life is that things will be hard at times.  Being able to maintain good behavior during those times is sort of the whole secret to a good life.

[mystery-ak]

Handyman details soundproof dungeon with hooks Utah student’s alleged killer tried to hire him to build
https://www.bizpacreview.com/2019/06/29/handyman-details-soundproof-dungeon-with-hooks-utah-students-alleged-killer-tried-to-hire-him-to-build-769696

[GtHawk]

There was a reason in the old days that families kept close tabs on young females. There was a reason there were chaperones and stricter rules about dating.
But today many or most young females reject that control. That want to be free to date whomever they please without any controls. And then they end up dead like this young woman.

When my daughter was in high school and boys would call her, the only phone was in the living room, I would say loudly in the background "make sure they know your dad has guns!" It also didn't hurt that I ran the local MickeyD's from the time the kids she went to school with were in first grades and they were scared to death of me.

[Applewood]

There was a reason in the old days that families kept close tabs on young females. There was a reason there were chaperones and stricter rules about dating.
But today many or most young females reject that control. That want to be free to date whomever they please without any controls. And then they end up dead like this young woman.

I don't know what her life at home was like.  She may have had protective parents who kept tabs on her friends, where she was going, who she was going with, etc.

But when kids go off to university, suddenly, all the restrictions are gone.  Plus this girl was in a sorority.  Sororities and frats seem to encourage bad and reckless behavior. 

One might say that by protecting their daughter, the parents created a situation where, on her own, she wouldn't be aware that meeting a stranger in some industrial park is a bad idea. 

But no, I'm not pointing fingers at her or her parents.  This is tragic enough without me being judgmental.  I just hope that this tragedy will be a lesson to other young women.  Maybe it will prevent  a similar tragedy in the future.

[truth_seeker]

Psychology Professor Jonathan Haidt, has concluded that 18-19 yr olds now, are like 13--15 yr olds from 30 years ago.

[Free Vulcan]

Ah.  Well, if someone bases their morality on recessions, they don't have any morals.   

The one thing you can count on in this life is that things will be hard at times.  Being able to maintain good behavior during those times is sort of the whole secret to a good life.

The problem is @Sanguine  is that they are getting fewer and fewer. Especially in @jmyrlefuller 's generation. It's a bit better in the midwest and south, but it's become so bad that there's a big movement among guys called MGTOW - Men Go Their Own Way, because they are so fed up with the entitled, feminist, gold digging women and their ridiculous baggage.

I realize many men have their problems, but we live in a society now that pushes a caste system that tells women and minorities that they can do as they please with no restraint or accountability while forcing everyone else to live up to their expectations. As I tell women - 'I took out all the one-way streets in my world years ago.'

I work with women, and when I tell them things like that, and that I expect women I date to have their crap together (because I have mine together) or they get bounced to the curb, they get combative and belligerent. They truly believe a man should be held to the highest of standards while they should be loved and tolerated for all their obvious flaws.

Which means if you want even something resembling a decent girl, you better make at least 250K a year, and you better know up front she has few skills beyond being arm candy. And if she does hold a job, don't expect to see a dime of her money, and she'll give you the time of day when it fits her schedule.

After the last trashy, gold digging, society climber woman I dated, when she dropped the facade and exposed her true self, I racheted up my own standards quite high, and not one woman has met them in 10 years. I'm good with that. It's sharpened my eye to the good ones. Maybe God willing someday I'll see the diamond when it crosses my path.

[Sanguine]

The problem is @Sanguine  is that they are getting fewer and fewer. Especially in @jmyrlefuller 's generation. It's a bit better in the midwest and south, but it's become so bad that there's a big movement among guys called MGTOW - Men Go Their Own Way, because they are so fed up with the entitled, feminist, gold digging women and their ridiculous baggage.

I realize many men have their problems, but we live in a society now that pushes a caste system that tells women and minorities that they can do as they please with no restraint or accountability while forcing everyone else to live up to their expectations. As I tell women - 'I took out all the one-way streets in my world years ago.'

I work with women, and when I tell them things like that, and that I expect women I date to have their crap together (because I have mine together) or they get bounced to the curb, they get combative and belligerent. They truly believe a man should be held to the highest of standards while they should be loved and tolerated for all their obvious flaws.

Which means if you want even something resembling a decent girl, you better make at least 250K a year, and you better know up front she has few skills beyond being arm candy. And if she does hold a job, don't expect to see a dime of her money, and she'll give you the time of day when it fits her schedule.

After the last trashy, gold digging, society climber woman I dated, when she dropped the facade and exposed her true self, I racheted up my own standards quite high, and not one woman has met them in 10 years. I'm good with that. It's sharpened my eye to the good ones. Maybe God willing someday I'll see the diamond when it crosses my path.

I hate to admit you could be correct, not because it's you, but because it's an ugly reality, if true.  I can only speak to those I know, and I know many millennial aged women.  They are not as you describe.  Now the young men they date, do sound like what you describe, except that they don't expect $250k, just enough to keep the fridge full, lights on and a sofa from which to play video games all day. 

[Free Vulcan]

I hate to admit you could be correct, not because it's you, but because it's an ugly reality, if true.  I can only speak to those I know, and I know many millennial aged women.  They are not as you describe.  Now the young men they date, do sound like what you describe, except that they don't expect $250k, just enough to keep the fridge full, lights on and a sofa from which to play video games all day.

And that's pretty much the problem. I've found the best dating screen is 'I want to live off-grid and be self sufficient,' and see if their eyes light up or not. So far it's been not. They don't like work.

They want to be kept. They mystery for the guy of today to solve is what level of income and entertainment they want to be kept at and not run off to some other guy, and whether you can provide it.

[Sanguine]

And that's pretty much the problem. I've found the best dating screen is 'I want to live off-grid and be self sufficient,' and see if their eyes light up or not. So far it's been not. They don't like work.

They want to be kept. They mystery for the guy of today to solve is what level of income and entertainment they want to be kept at and not run off to some other guy, and whether you can provide it.

I was talking about the men they have to select from.  And, I'm not convinced it's who they go after rather than who is available.  If they're looking for tall, dark and handsome only that leaves a lot of men out of the running.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

"Sugar Baby" is just another way to say 'prostitute'.

QFT. That's it in a nutshell.

[Free Vulcan]

I was talking about the men they have to select from.  And, I'm not convinced it's who they go after rather than who is available.  If they're looking for tall, dark and handsome only that leaves a lot of men out of the running.

Many women go for the best deal they can get. But I can bet you if that same guy had the same level of income, but instead of playing video games used his time to build a homestead and live self-sufficiently, they'd want nothing to do with him because that would mean work.

I also bet that if someone better came along, she'd be gone in a heartbeat. And if the next guy was even better, move on down the road again.

What you don't see anymore is 'I love this man, and want to build a life with him.'

The problem is they want the Alpha Male, the highest of high standards, but to invoke Jack Nicholson in a Few Good Men, plant your little butt down in that chair, sit up straight, and zip your lip, because you can't handle the Alpha Male.

And if they do find him, they grind him into the dirt with a mountain of expectations while spending all his money, act like he's failed her when he gives up, then dump him for and end up with the same kind of schlub they've always dated. That's because in reality that's the man they really deserve.

This is why I don't date anymore, nor many other single guys I know. I can't live on eggshells from day-to-day wondering if she's going to leave me tomorrow for some little disappointment she had with me today. Let her stay with the C- guy.

[Sanguine]

Many women go for the best deal they can get. But I can bet you if that same guy had the same level of income, but instead of playing video games used his time to build a homestead and live self-sufficiently, they'd want nothing to do with him because that would mean work.

I also bet that if someone better came along, she'd be gone in a heartbeat. And if the next guy was even better, move on down the road again.

What you don't see anymore is 'I love this man, and want to build a life with him.'

The problem is they want the Alpha Male, the highest of high standards, but to invoke Jack Nicholson in a Few Good Men, plant your little butt down in that chair, sit up straight, and zip your lip, because you can't handle the Alpha Male.

And if they do find him, they grind him into the dirt with a mountain of expectations while spending all his money, act like he's failed her when he gives up, then dump him for and end up with the same kind of schlub they've always dated. That's because in reality that's the man they really deserve.

This is why I don't date anymore, nor many other single guys I know. I can't live on eggshells from day-to-day wondering if she's going to leave me tomorrow for some little disappointment she had with me today. Let her stay with the C- guy.

I don't know what to say.  I honestly don't know those women.  Even the ones I would say tend to be shallow, stick with their men and try to do right by them.  You and I live in different worlds. 

[goatprairie]

Psychology Professor Jonathan Haidt, has concluded that 18-19 yr olds now, are like 13--15 yr olds from 30 years ago.

I wonder how many 18-19 yr old females know that there's about a ten percent physical strength gap between the average male and the average female? That's huge. That's like the average adult male trying to fight a pro football player. Or Tyrus from the Greg Gutfeld Show.
I think maybe too many young females believe the garbage they see on movies and tv today with 110 lb soaking wet females kicking the crap out of men much bigger and twice their weight.
 I've had a number of interesting tv series ruined when watching scenes of slight females taking a beating a muscular grown man in shape couldn't take and then thumping the much bigger male.
 The facts are the average male can very easily overpower the average female. Having a weapon would give them an equalizer in a bad situation.

[Free Vulcan]

I don't know what to say.  I honestly don't know those women.  Even the ones I would say tend to be shallow, stick with their men and try to do right by them.  You and I live in different worlds.

It may be called North v. South, unfortunately. If I didn't like this part of the country, I'd probably move below the Mason-Dixon.

[rustynail]

Sugar Daddy glazed the Ham.

[EdJames]

It may be called North v. South, unfortunately. If I didn't like this part of the country, I'd probably move below the Mason-Dixon.

I don't know, from what I see (and hear of) in many US states, what you describe is not that uncommon.  Especially amongst the younger women, say 45 and below as a rough point of demarcation.  I find that women in their 60s are still more "normal."

[edpc]

Psychology Professor Jonathan Haidt, has concluded that 18-19 yr olds now, are like 13--15 yr olds from 30 years ago.

Great – another Roy Moore thread.

[240B]

And if they do find him, they grind him into the dirt with a mountain of expectations while spending all his money, act like he's failed her when he gives up, then dump him for and end up with the same kind of schlub they've always dated. That's because in reality that's the man they really deserve.

Reminds me of me ex-wife. Kind of sad but also funny. Her parents had money and hired the best divorce attorney in the State. Also the Judge was female. My ex wound up getting a judgement for half my income for what was effectively the rest of my life.

For years I paid the mortgage, the bills, two car payments, and everything else. By the time the divorce happened, I had already bought a condo. After the judgement I called her and said I'm going to lose my condo. I can't afford all this insanity. My net income, after paying her, went from 6 figures to close to the same income I was making in my first job out of college. So, 15 years of experience was meaningless.

When I called to tell her that I would soon be homeless under this incredible burden plus all my other bills, she said, "That's your problem, LOSER!" Hahahaha, yes. Yes I am a loser now, because I married you! It was funny to me that she would take all my money and then call me a loser because, she took all my money. But this is not unusual for her. She was good at denying objective reality whenever it put the blame on her.

It is amazing that I went from a golden blessed life to loser, all because of a woman who constantly denied that she had anything to do with it. Crazy. Of course I countersued and eventually got everything normalized. But it screwed up 5 years of my life after the divorce. And she loved it. She wanted to keep me off balance so I could not remarry. She didn't want me, but she also didn't want any other woman to want me. She didn't want to be married to me, but she still wanted to control me and my money.

[EdJames]

Reminds me of me ex-wife.

....

She didn't want to be married to me, but she still wanted to control me and my money.

Heh, must be a lot of that going around!!

 

[sneakypete]

I'd probably feel more sorry for her if she wasn't doing this sugar daddy crap: a lazy and obviously dangerous activity.

Get a bleep job already.

Darwin as far as I'm concerned.

@Weird Tolkienish Figure

I agree. When you put yourself out there to people you know nothing about and agree to meet them alone at 3 AM,it shouldn't come as any surprise when you end up dead.

I do feel sorry for her family,though.