Trump orders officials to look at $100 billion in new Chinese tariffs

[DB]

Problem is they're not selling it at a loss in the traditional sense. They are cornering the market on key manufacturing processes. They are getting their hands on proprietary tech that they can bootleg. They can cut corners on production to make up for any monetary losses.

I will agree it is really stupid to give China manufacturing tech. Virtually every western company that has tried to setup shop there bringing their technology get badly burned by their product being cloned below cost. You would have thought that lesson was learned long ago...

[Hoodat]

Problem is they're not selling it at a loss in the traditional sense. They are cornering the market on key manufacturing processes.

Cornering the market?  Hardly.  We have the same manufacturing ability that they have.  There is nothing they have that we don't have or can't get.

They are getting their hands on proprietary tech that they can bootleg. They can cut corners on production to make up for any monetary losses.

Now this is indeed a problem.  But it is our companies that make this possible by continuing to set up shop in China.  This is where we screw ourselves again and again and again.  For every factory that an American manufacturer opens in China, the Chinese open another 19 exactly like it.  American business is so friggin short-sighted, thinking only from quarter to quarter in this Sarbanes-Oxley/Dodd-Frank environment.  If they thought long term, they would never risk losing anything to a Chinese competitor.

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

I am good with that... just another reason for China not to go there. Talk 'Bout holding all the cards. 

The overwhelming majority of US gov't debt is held by Americans.

The US gov't defaulting on its debt would be effectively a massive tax increase on AMERICANS.

MAGA!

[Formerly Once-Ler]

https://twitter.com/BenSasse/status/982055225325441024

[Frank Cannon]

https://twitter.com/BenSasse/status/982055225325441024

Didn't know forcing American citizens to burn their produce in their cars was Pro-trade.....

Subtotal, Farming Subsidies in Nebraska, 1995-2016

https://farm.ewg.org/top_recips.php?fips=31000&progcode=totalfarm

Recipients of Subtotal, Farming Subsidies from farms in Nebraska totaled $12,597,000,000 in from 1995-2016.

More fitting statement would be Pro-welfare state. BTW can anyone point out anything tangible Sasse has done in his life? I'm drawing a blank.

[catfish1957]

We are already liquidating 3 trillion in T-bills the obama occupation printed. China cannot dump it's holdings of T-Bills without making the dollar drop in international trade. Further helping us and our exports vrs import with every country out there.

Also, China is in a world of hurt economically.... they are facing a debt/and population bomb. They really are over the barrel. We hold the cards and have a President who... thankfully knows it.

Its a high stakes game of chicken that is for sure.  I think that if it gets to this, the $ loses its status as reference currency.  To what?  Who knows.  In any case, both sides are boxing themselves in for a really tough time.

[kevindavis007]

@sdonnan

BREAKING: Trump has ordered USTR to put together plan for $100bn in additional tariffs against #China. He’s also ordered Ag secretary to work on plan to protect farmers. This is big and rapid escalation...

[libertybele]

@sdonnan

BREAKING: Trump has ordered USTR to put together plan for $100bn in additional tariffs against #China. He’s also ordered Ag secretary to work on plan to protect farmers. This is big and rapid escalation...

There are all kinds of 'opinions' out there on this right now, each in stark contrast to each other.  Meanwhile the volatility in the markets continues. It's going to be a very long and very bumpy ride for quite awhile.

Trump’s being cunning — not dumb — over China, says trade expert

Bogle on stock turbulence: ‘never seen a market this volatile to this extent in my career’

China ready to pay 'any cost' in trade war after Donald Trump threatens $100bn of additional tariffs

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/bogle-says-hes-never-seen-a-market-this-volatile-to-this-extent-in-my-career-2018-04-05?mod=MW_story_top_stories

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/trumps-being-cunning-not-dumb-over-china-says-trade-expert-2018-04-05

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018/04/06/donald-trump-considering-100-billion-additional-tariffs-china/

[Restored]

As I said before, our trade deficit with China is so large, they cannot possibly win a trade war with us.
China being allied with Russia is going to send the liberals into a tailspin. How can they side with China against Trump if China is allied with the evil Russians? Agh!

[edpc]

Trump says ‘pain’ from China tariffs will make US ‘much stronger’

President Trump says in a new interview that tariffs targeting China over intellectual property theft could cause some "pain" in the U.S. economy, but promised that America would emerge stronger as a result.

"I'm not saying there's not gonna be any pain," Trump said Friday in an interview with "Bernie & Sid in the Morning" on 77 WABC.

He also acknowledged the initial reaction from markets is likely to be negative.

http://thehill.com/policy/finance/381933-trump-says-pain-from-china-tariffs-will-make-us-much-stronger


It sounds like proposed tariffs are going to be enacted, followed by counter moves by both sides.  Depending on how much ‘pain’ is caused and how long it lasts could have a major effect on the midterms.

[INVAR]

As I said before, our trade deficit with China is so large, they cannot possibly win a trade war with us.

Pride goeth before the fall.

It's imbecilic to wage a trade war when your economy is so far in debt, there is not enough wealth on the planet to cover it, and your manufacturing base in mostly in the countries you decided to punish while stateside unions see an opening to expand their influence.

Then again - populism always ends up killing a free market and restricting consumer choice via nationalism.

[Concerned]

I suspect this trade fight with China will end with Trump proclaiming success whether it’s real or not.  He’ll probably end up with some kind of “great trade deal” like the one he gave us with South Korea where the cap on US car imports went from 25,000 to 50,000 even though U.S. auto manufacturers have only been exporting around 11,000 vehicles to Korea each year.
 
Trump will probably make a similar fairly meaningless “great trade deal” with China.  He’ll then proclaim success, his supporters will celebrate his shrewd negotiating tactics and his great deal-making skills, but nothing will substantively change relative to trade or the US economy.  I’m afraid this President isn’t so much interested in actual winning as he is in proclaiming a win and then moving on to his next PR accomplishment.  The question I have is will his supporters ever get wise to it?  Sadly, I have my doubts. 

[edpc]

China will not hesitate with 'major response' to new tariffs: Ministry of Commerce

"We believe this is a battle between unilateralism and multilateralism, a fight between protectionism and free trade," the Chinese Ministry of Commerce representative said. "This is not good for China, or the world. Facing this serious problem, we must fight resolutely."

"We have prepared with a bottom line mindset and have planned detailed action. We won't start a war, but if someone does, we will definitely fight back," the representative said.

He added there was no merit to talk the two countries were discussing trade behind the scenes.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/06/china-will-not-hesitate-with-major-response-to-new-tariffs-ministry-of-commerce.html

[aligncare]

I wish everyone would just calm down. There won’t be any tariffs coming. All this talk from both sides is just opening bids in a negotiation. Every side is jockeying. All these tariffs being announced by China are set to launch 6-8 mos out. Plenty of time for all sides to negotiate trade deals.

The whole play to get better deals for Americans is simply classic Trump at work.

[edpc]

I suspect this trade fight with China will end with Trump proclaiming success whether it’s real or not.

In the full article from The Hill excerpted above, Trump says he's not worried about the market volatility.  That's funny, since he's made tone of tweets in the past about strong market performance being due to his policies.  Now that one makes it rocky - no big deal.

[Restored]

China has no ability to hurt us. They need American markets but we don't need China's markets for our goods. They need our goods but we merely want their goods and there are plenty of countries around them willing to step in.
China has always dumped goods to kill American manufacturing and then made it difficult to send things into China. Both my wife and I worked for companies that did business in the Asian sphere. It was really hard to make money. It practically killed my wife's company. I remember invoices showing BMW's being shipped into Hong Kong trying to open up the Chinese market.

[INVAR]

China has no ability to hurt us.

We didn't think Japan did either.

[aligncare]

The United States is the 800-pound market in the room. I’m confident China will have to deal with us on better terms.

[edpc]

"We've already lost the trade war. We don't have a trade war, we've lost the trade war," Trump said in a radio interview with New York radio show, 77 WABC's "Bernie & Sid."


So, what are all these tariff moves...terms of our surrender?

[INVAR]

"We've already lost the trade war. We don't have a trade war, we've lost the trade war," Trump said in a radio interview with New York radio show, 77 WABC's "Bernie & Sid."


So, what are all these tariff moves...terms of our surrender?

Punishing Americans because we 'lost the trade war' or just a bunch of stupid bluster to assuage his massive ego of how awesome he is in his own mind.

[aligncare]

We’ve been losing the trade war with China under previous administrations. Trump aims to reverse that trend.

[edpc]

Losing?  Read the quote above.  Trump is channeling Harry Reid.



! No longer available

[Restored]

We didn't think Japan did either.

Not anymore they can't.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Didn't know forcing American citizens to burn their produce in their cars was Pro-trade.....

Subtotal, Farming Subsidies in Nebraska, 1995-2016

https://farm.ewg.org/top_recips.php?fips=31000&progcode=totalfarm

More fitting statement would be Pro-welfare state.

@Frank Cannon

I'm no fan of subsidizing farming, but I believe the problems of government subsidies are exacerbated by the tariffs. 

[WingNot]

We didn't think Japan did either.

I haven't seen any go that far back in their time machine for a reach in years INVAR. 
For that you sir get the Mr. Peabody & Sherman Award.