Democratic Rep. Blames Harvey Weinstein’s Victims For Being Too Slutty

[txradioguy]

I see she's taking a page from Hillary's "How to get charges against a sexual predator dismissed" playbook

[musiclady]

But I do take it seriously.  Nobody asked me if I did, somehow it's assumed I don't because I haven't mouthed some magic words.  I've worked in a large corporate environment for over 30 years, and one doesn't survive if one doesn't take harassment very seriously.

What I will not do is assume guilt until innocence is proven.  Assuming innocence is not in the anti-harassment culture, hasn't been since the 80's, and I consider that a problem.

I didn't imply, nor do I think you don't take it seriously.

I pinged everyone who was part of the conversation as a courtesy.

Sorry if I offended you.

[musiclady]

That is again a statement from youself.   

And a valid question, btw.

[musiclady]

I DO take it seriously!  Probably more so than most!  But hashtags won't fix it!   Only fixing our culture will do that and we are a LONG way from that happening! 

Every day that William Jefferson Clinton is still walking around a free man gives testament to that sad fact!

My point, which you clearly missed, was that while hashtags don't "fix it," in this case, they are providing a very real service to the victims of creeps and abusers just like Bill Clinton.

Either I don't communicate as well as I thought, or there are people here looking to be offended.....   

[Bigun]

My point, which you clearly missed, was that while hashtags don't "fix it," in this case, they are providing a very real service to the victims of creeps and abusers just like Bill Clinton.

Either I don't communicate as well as I thought, or there are people here looking to be offended.....   

I'm not offended! Not at all! I'm just not governed by emotion.  Most men aren't.

[Cyber Liberty]

I didn't imply, nor do I think you don't take it seriously.

I pinged everyone who was part of the conversation as a courtesy.

Sorry if I offended you.

No offense take, ML.  I know that you know me better that that!

 

[RoosGirl]

I'm not offended! Not at all! I'm just not governed by emotion.  Most men aren't.

Not being governed by emotion is fine.  Agreeing that someone deserved someone else to take advantage of them because they dressed a certain way is different than "not governed by emotion".

If this Rep's comment were not about Weinstein, but just about society in general, it would still be wrong.  Women aren't "asking for it" because of the way they dress.

No one is being asked to assume guilt or develop some righteous indignation over the Weinstein thing.  I think it unlikely, but all the women making accusations could be lying.  That still doesn't mean that anyone deserves to be raped because of the way they dress, or because they go to a man's hotel room, or any other reason.

[Bigun]

Not being governed by emotion is fine.  Agreeing that someone deserved someone else to take advantage of them because they dressed a certain way is different than "not governed by emotion".

If this Rep's comment were not about Weinstein, but just about society in general, it would still be wrong.  Women aren't "asking for it" because of the way they dress.

No one is being asked to assume guilt or develop some righteous indignation over the Weinstein thing.  I think it unlikely, but all the women making accusations could be lying.  That still doesn't mean that anyone deserves to be raped because of the way they dress, or because they go to a man's hotel room, or any other reason.

The ONLY thing I like about this rep is that she is from Florida and this relieves Texas of having the dumbest congressman on Earth!

[cammie]

I don't see anyone on this thread alleging that sexual assault or harassment by Weinstein or anyone else was in anyway ok, but when anyone is in a harassment (as opposed to forcible rape or assault) situation, they have a choice to walk away, despite the costs to their career.

There is so much consensual transactional sex in the entertainment industry (sexual favors for career advancement) that until that is considered unthinkable by *all* women, those women who won't engage in it are going to be at a disadvantage in their careers AND men in the industry are being conditioned to think that there's a good chance they'll get some in return for career advancement.  That doesn't make any of what Harvey Weinstein did right, that doesn't make any of the women who were attacked, harassed, or otherwise abused by him at fault, but we need to acknowledge that they were victimized primarily by Weinstein and secondarily by culture in the entertainment industry created by those women in the industry who believe "sex is one of the weapons in my arsenal for career advancement."

It's also a little disturbing that a few of the women who are coming out are using Weinstein's physical grotesqueness as one of their primary talking points (i.e. "he looked like Jabba the Hutt").  That reads dangerously like a primary objection to his behavior comes from how he looked, not because they are objecting to the behavior qua behavior. It reads like transactional sex would have been ok if he were better looking.  And that's a huge problem in and of itself.

Those who are saying on this thread that "maybe they wouldn't have gotten their career, but they DID have a choice" are also correct regarding those who were not physically assaulted by Weinstein (i.e. the requested massages, him taking off his clothes, etc). If he wasn't engaging in forcible action - and he seems not to have engaged in that in all of his sexually harassing interactions -- a lot of women were in a position where they did have a choice to walk away, to tell him off, to go to the police, to not put up with it.  Yeah, maybe it would have cost them their career, and that's why it is so dicey to report sexual harassment.  But they did have a choice, and a lot of them decided their shot at stardom was more important than (1) protecting other women from this behavior or (2) trying to get justice for themselves.

So yes, Harvey is the wrongdoer in a civil and criminal sense, and no one who was assaulted or harassed should be blamed for BEING assaulted or harassed, but blame can attach (1) to the things people who were harassed or assaulted chose to do (or not do) after the fact, although that would require that we know their motives for staying silent (i.e. if it's trauma and fear, that's one thing; if it's "I decided my career was more important than reporting" then, yeah, part of the problem and is a blameworthy thing) and (2) to anyone who engages in transactional sex to further their career, because that creates a culture where it's expected.

[dfwgator]

So yes, Harvey is the wrongdoer in a civil and criminal sense, and no one who was assaulted or harassed should be blamed for BEING assaulted or harassed, but blame can attach (1) to the things people who were harassed or assaulted chose to do (or not do) after the fact, although that would require that we know their motives for staying silent (i.e. if it's trauma and fear, that's one thing; if it's "I decided my career was more important than reporting" then, yeah, part of the problem and is a blameworthy thing) and (2) to anyone who engages in transactional sex to further their career, because that creates a culture where it's expected.

 

[Cyber Liberty]

I'm still waiting for word on people who have used "The Casting Couch" to their benefit, to get a leg up (no pun intended) on the competition for a part.  Is it sexist of me to wonder about this other side of the equation?

[dfwgator]

I'm still waiting for word on people who have used "The Casting Couch" to their benefit, to get a leg up (no pun intended) on the competition for a part.  Is it sexist of me to wonder about this other side of the equation?

Not at all, it's a valid question,  it is what separates Hollywood from other situations.

[Bigun]

I'm still waiting for word on people who have used "The Casting Couch" to their benefit, to get a leg up (no pun intended) on the competition for a part.  Is it sexist of me to wonder about this other side of the equation?

Surely you are not suggesting that there are women out there who will take full advantage of their physical attributes in order to get what they want!  Surely not! /s

[RoosGirl]

I'm still waiting for word on people who have used "The Casting Couch" to their benefit, to get a leg up (no pun intended) on the competition for a part.  Is it sexist of me to wonder about this other side of the equation?

Nope.  I'm positive that kind of thing happens in just about every industry, just perhaps not as often as Hollywood..... and DC.

[dfwgator]

Nope.  I'm positive that kind of thing happens in just about every industry, just perhaps not as often as Hollywood..... and DC.

Not to the degree that it is in the Entertainment industry.

[Cyber Liberty]

Not to the degree that it is in the Entertainment industry.

I agree.  It's called "The Casting Couch" for a reason.

[SZonian]

A word about hashtags (in this situation)...... No, they won't "fix it," but as I have been on FB the past week or so, I have seen many women I know put #metoo by their names, and reveal that they have been sexually assaulted.

Now not one of these women has ever been to Hollywood other than perhaps to visit, and they are all ordinary women.... not starlets....... who have been assaulted by sexual predators, but many of whom haven't spoken up before.

It is HARD to tell others that you've been assaulted.  It is HARD to make it public.   But it is critical to healing to do so.

The hashtag, in this case, is good for the women who have been victims...... some as young as 3 when it happened...... THREE!   It is an important step in their own personal recovery, and is not some dumb liberal response to a tragedy that doesn't help.  In this case, it DOES help.  It helps the victims of monstrous men heal.

The insensitivity to the victims of assault by some conservative men is troubling.

Take this seriously please.

Please.

@RoosGirl   @dfwgator  @SZonian  @berdie  @Bigun  @AbaraXas @Cyber Liberty

@musiclady

You and @RoosGirl had better do better than what you have been in hurling accusations towards me of condoning sexual assault.  Show me where I condoned or encouraged or said the women were at fault.  What the representative said is true...women who dress suggestively and throw themselves at men in power have no basis to then come back crying assault. 

That's a hell of a lot different than a man forcing himself on the girls/women by abusing his position.  I would never condone what is essentially rape and for you two to imply that my comments on this matter equal such a position is patently absurd.

Whatever you two inferred from my statements is not "concern", some burr is up your saddle and you better get it out 

[Frank Cannon]

Everyone brags about how awesome it is in Texas. Looking at it's representation I am starting to doubt that.....

[cammie]

@musiclady

You and @RoosGirl had better do better than what you have been in hurling accusations towards me of condoning sexual assault.  Show me where I condoned or encouraged or said the women were at fault.  What the representative said is true...women who dress suggestively and throw themselves at men in power have no basis to then come back crying assault. 

That's a hell of a lot different than a man forcing himself on the girls/women by abusing his position.  I would never condone what is essentially rape and for you two to imply that my comments on this matter equal such a position is patently absurd.

Whatever you two inferred from my statements is not "concern", some burr is up your saddle and you better get it out

As a female, I also need to take issue with how some ladies, including here, are choosing to read the #metoo hashtag.  It's not only being used by women who have been sexually assaulted. It's being used for a whole range of behaviors that women, either at the time or now, in retrospect (which is problematic), find offensive.  That's a huge problem with the hashtag phenomenon - it becomes an airing of the grievances that spreads its blame much further than to actual wrongs.

[musiclady]

As a female, I also need to take issue with how some ladies, including here, are choosing to read the #metoo hashtag.  It's not only being used by women who have been sexually assaulted. It's being used for a whole range of behaviors that women, either at the time or now, in retrospect (which is problematic), find offensive.  That's a huge problem with the hashtag phenomenon - it becomes an airing of the grievances that spreads its blame much further than to actual wrongs.

I know the women who have used the hashtag on my feed and they ALL have been assaulted. One at the age of three.

Don't make generalizations.

[RoosGirl]

@musiclady

You and @RoosGirl had better do better than what you have been in hurling accusations towards me of condoning sexual assault.  Show me where I condoned or encouraged or said the women were at fault.  What the representative said is true...women who dress suggestively and throw themselves at men in power have no basis to then come back crying assault. 

That's a hell of a lot different than a man forcing himself on the girls/women by abusing his position.  I would never condone what is essentially rape and for you two to imply that my comments on this matter equal such a position is patently absurd.

Whatever you two inferred from my statements is not "concern", some burr is up your saddle and you better get it out

Please, feel free to continue agreeing with the dumbass Dem Rep.

[musiclady]

@musiclady

You and @RoosGirl had better do better than what you have been in hurling accusations towards me of condoning sexual assault.  Show me where I condoned or encouraged or said the women were at fault.  What the representative said is true...women who dress suggestively and throw themselves at men in power have no basis to then come back crying assault. 

That's a hell of a lot different than a man forcing himself on the girls/women by abusing his position.  I would never condone what is essentially rape and for you two to imply that my comments on this matter equal such a position is patently absurd.

Whatever you two inferred from my statements is not "concern", some burr is up your saddle and you better get it out

Hmmmm...... I used the word ,"insensitive" and you react in rage saying I accused you of things I did not.

Seems the Burr is your problem, not mine. ^-^

[dfwgator]

I know the women who have used the hashtag on my feed and they ALL have been assaulted. One at the age of three.

 

I don't doubt that.  But then again, Monica Lewinsky tweeted #metoo, as well,  which ends up making a mockery of it.

[musiclady]

I don't doubt that.  But then again, Monica Lewinsky tweeted #metoo, as well,  which ends up making a mockery of it.

Lewinsky makes a mockery of pretty much everything.

[dfwgator]

Lewinsky makes a mockery of pretty much everything.

One thing I want to say, is while I was kind of harsh on some of the women,  my real ire is directed at the actors and male Hollywood hotshots,   they knew.  And we have slime like Tarantino now whining that he should have done more........gee, ya think?