Centrist group in House 'will never' meet with Freedom Caucus

[txradioguy]

It sure does seem that way.

Although I'm not sure why - it wasn't the 'centrist' message that won the GOP the WH and both ends of capitol hill.

The GOP was very unambiguous about what they wanted to do then.

To quote BHO "It's just words"

[EdJames]

It sure does seem that way.

Although I'm not sure why - it wasn't the 'centrist' message that won the GOP the WH and both ends of capitol hill.

The GOP was very unambiguous about what they wanted to do then.

Sir, I have seen the bolded text above quoted often here, without attribution.  I kindly ask you, can you provide us with some verifiable information that backs that claim?

To be clear, my heart pines for an America in 2017 in which your proposition is correct, but I simply see no evidence of that.

From a simple numbers point of view, if you accept the premise that the HFC represents the "pure conservative" voting population, their 30-odd members are a small minority of GOP Representatives.  How could the disparity in the wishes of the GOP voting population end up minimized in House member representation?

(Even factoring in the impact of incumbency, it would seem to me that if your supposition were true, we would see better than 100 members strong in the HFC, no?)

[skeeter]

And we're yokels to be milked for votes every election, afterwards expected to sit down and shut up.

Because we just don't understand how the system is supposed to work.

[anubias]

Sir, I have seen the bolded text above quoted often here, without attribution.  I kindly ask you, can you provide us with some verifiable information that backs that claim?

To be clear, my heart pines for an America in 2017 in which your proposition is correct, but I simply see no evidence of that.

From a simple numbers point of view, if you accept the premise that the HFC represents the "pure conservative" voting population, their 30-odd members are a small minority of GOP Representatives.  How could the disparity in the wishes of the GOP voting population end up minimized in House member representation?

(Even factoring in the impact of incumbency, it would seem to me that if your supposition were true, we would see better than 100 members strong in the HFC, no?)

How many supposed Conservatives has the TEA Party voted in to only be slapped in the face when they go home with the RINOs?  You have to add those in with the HFC numbers as they were voted in to do one thing; although they did another.  Our Congress folks don't seem to understand that "You go home with the one that brought you to the dance." 

I hope they will learn that lesson in 2018.

[DiogenesLamp]

Sir, I have seen the bolded text above quoted often here, without attribution.  I kindly ask you, can you provide us with some verifiable information that backs that claim?

To be clear, my heart pines for an America in 2017 in which your proposition is correct, but I simply see no evidence of that.

From a simple numbers point of view, if you accept the premise that the HFC represents the "pure conservative" voting population, their 30-odd members are a small minority of GOP Representatives.  How could the disparity in the wishes of the GOP voting population end up minimized in House member representation?

(Even factoring in the impact of incumbency, it would seem to me that if your supposition were true, we would see better than 100 members strong in the HFC, no?)

And what numbers of the GOP membership last year voted to repeal on what is ostensibly the current Freedom Caucus position?   


Wasn't it something like all of them? 

[Right_in_Virginia]

@Right_in_Virginia

;)

Welcome @EdJames 

[skeeter]

Sir, I have seen the bolded text above quoted often here, without attribution.  I kindly ask you, can you provide us with some verifiable information that backs that claim?

To be clear, my heart pines for an America in 2017 in which your proposition is correct, but I simply see no evidence of that.

From a simple numbers point of view, if you accept the premise that the HFC represents the "pure conservative" voting population, their 30-odd members are a small minority of GOP Representatives.  How could the disparity in the wishes of the GOP voting population end up minimized in House member representation?

(Even factoring in the impact of incumbency, it would seem to me that if your supposition were true, we would see better than 100 members strong in the HFC, no?)

I don't know where to start with your question other than to encourage you to watch all 2 dozen debates and what seemed like hundreds of Trump rallies from the recent primary and general election season.

I'd also reference the poll numbers of the campaign's most long lived centrist candidate, Gov John Kasich. Somewhere around 5%, I think.

[EdJames]

How many supposed Conservatives has the TEA Party voted in to only be slapped in the face when they go home with the RINOs?  You have to add those in with the HFC numbers as they were voted in to do one thing; although they did another.  Our Congress folks don't seem to understand that "You go home with the one that brought you to the dance." 

I hope they will learn that lesson in 2018.

Do you have to add them in to the HFC numbers?

Or perhaps add them in to the numbers of House & Senate members that talked a "good game" on the campaign trail, i.e., played to the "Tea Party" electorate in 2010, 2012, 2014....  for the purpose of getting elected!  It is my opinion, that both chambers (the House more so) are filled with members that were very happy to run for election (or re-election for some) under the "Tea Party" banner as it allowed them to pick up the votes of people seeking change, regardless of their intent to work toward such change.

Hence, I think that we are at a wash if we consider those rogues!

[EdJames]

And what numbers of the GOP membership last year voted to repeal on what is ostensibly the current Freedom Caucus position?   


Wasn't it something like all of them?

Heh!  I think that everyone here recognizes that a VAST majority of those votes were proffered by the disingenuous members that knew (a priori) that the results of their legislation would end up on the scrap heap of Obama's veto.

Call me a pessimist, but I think that 90+% of the GOP House and Senate are more than happy with the status quo, with respect to the ACA and too many other issues.

[EdJames]

I don't know where to start with your question other than to encourage you to watch all 2 dozen debates and what seemed like hundreds of Trump rallies from the recent primary and general election season.

I'd also reference the poll numbers of the campaign's most long lived centrist candidate, Gov John Kasich. Somewhere around 5%, I think.

I reply saying that your response is an apples and oranges comparison!

We are focused on House members, the Representatives that were elected or re-elected by voters (mostly GOP voters, but not exclusively in many cases), in contrast to General Election Trump voters.

And let me be very clear, in my personal opinion, Trump screwed up royally on the campaign trail with respect to his rhetoric on the fate of the ACA.

To be succinct and not have to dig up a volume of direct quotes, he spoke out of both sides of his mouth on the subject.  On one hand he would often say: "Day one folks.... day one....  what are we going to do?  That's right, get rid of Obamacare..... all of it, folks.... all of it..... its got to go folks.... its got to go.....  it is hurting too many people... its bad.... Day one.... Day one we end it..."  (or something very close).

On the other hand he would say: "Folks we are going to replace it with some better.... much, much better....  we are going to have fantastic choices for everyone.... that's right.... everyone....  a lot of Republicans won't like my plan.... they won't.... but we are going to cover everyone..... even those that can't afford it.... we've got to folks.... its the right thing to do.... its the right thing to do...."


I suggest that in light of the above, there was a LOT of selective listening going on....  many people heard what they wanted to hear from the above.... and either ignored (or rationalized away) what they didn't want to hear....

[DiogenesLamp]

Heh!  I think that everyone here recognizes that a VAST majority of those votes were proffered by the disingenuous members that knew (a priori) that the results of their legislation would end up on the scrap heap of Obama's veto.

So their votes on the issue before they stood for election do not represent evidence that the public wanted this thing repealed? 

Call me a pessimist, but I think that 90+% of the GOP House and Senate are more than happy with the status quo, with respect to the ACA and too many other issues.

I think this is true.   I think that Washington D.C. does something to people.   I've been there.  It has a  weird feeling.  It's like reality is being warped and you can almost feel it in the air.  It's hypnotic.   


Somehow it turns our guys against us.  They may go there as staunch principled conservatives,  but after a few years,  they start becoming the establishment that just wants to keep bribing poor voters and wealthy donors with public money. 


And so they lie to us. 

[XenaLee]

That's because we haven't played "Cowboys and Centrists" yet.

But it's comin.....lol.

[DiogenesLamp]

And let me be very clear, in my personal opinion, Trump screwed up royally on the campaign trail with respect to his rhetoric on the fate of the ACA.

To be succinct and not have to dig up a volume of direct quotes, he spoke out of both sides of his mouth on the subject.  On one hand he would often say: "Day one folks.... day one....  what are we going to do?  That's right, get rid of Obamacare..... all of it, folks.... all of it..... its got to go folks.... its got to go.....  it is hurting too many people... its bad.... Day one.... Day one we end it..."  (or something very close).

On the other hand he would say: "Folks we are going to replace it with some better.... much, much better....  we are going to have fantastic choices for everyone.... that's right.... everyone....  a lot of Republicans won't like my plan.... they won't.... but we are going to cover everyone..... even those that can't afford it.... we've got to folks.... its the right thing to do.... its the right thing to do...."


I suggest that in light of the above, there was a LOT of selective listening going on....  many people heard what they wanted to hear from the above.... and either ignored (or rationalized away) what they didn't want to hear....

I heard both sides.   I figured we would get some sort of halfway measure between the two because I have always believed Trump is at heart a New York Liberal Democrat that has only recently came over to the Republican/conservative side.   


I also suspect he has only came over to our side because he realized it would have been impossible for him to take the nomination away from a Democrat who is already in the line of "succession."  His only chance of winning was as a Republican,  so that's what he did.   


I never thought Trump could be fully trusted,  I always thought he would do stuff like this.  That being said,  I am still thrilled to death that we didn't end up with that Psychotic Nazi hate-witch Hillary.   


I'll live with Trump being Trump. 

[XenaLee]

So their votes on the issue before they stood for election do not represent evidence that the public wanted this thing repealed? 




I think this is true.   I think that Washington D.C. does something to people.   I've been there.  It has a  weird feeling.  It's like reality is being warped and you can almost feel it in the air.  It's hypnotic.   


Somehow it turns our guys against us.  They may go there as staunch principled conservatives,  but after a few years,  they start becoming the establishment that just wants to keep bribing poor voters and wealthy donors with public money. 


And so they lie to us.

That's probably because under Bubba Clinton's infamous Oral Office desk ...there's a hidden door in the floor, leading to a hellmouth portal.  All the DC insiders go and come through that portal several times a week.  Problem is, the more times they go in, the less rightie they come out....as planned, of course....lol.

Of course, that's just a supposition on my part.  Could also be aliens/ETs that have podded them all.   

[EdJames]

So their votes on the issue before they stood for election do not represent evidence that the public wanted this thing repealed? 

>>> You raise a good point, sir!  Perhaps their votes represented what they thought their constituency wanted?  Or perhaps their votes represented what their constituency did indeed want?  I suggest that it is unknowable (with any degree of certainty at this point), but I willingly concede that your perspective could be true! 

[geronl]

What I have not seen is people saying, "not the lefties who refuse to even talk to them."

The rational posters have pretty much uniformly suggested that both sides need to talk to each other.

They will not talk to conservatives except to threaten, bribe and cajole them into submission. We were told we'll have to pass it before seeing it- we were told all kinds of things- then they barely released it before the planned vote and said no amendments would be considered. The RINO's are acting just like Democrats did with ObamaCare.

[Emjay]

Collins rates an F (23%) on the Conservative Review Liberty Scorecard.  That's not centrist...that's pretty much Liberal.

It would only be considered "centrist" if he was a Democrat.

Wow.  Collins could only get a lower score if he invited Putin to lunch.

[EdJames]

I heard both sides.   I figured we would get some sort of halfway measure between the two because I have always believed Trump is at heart a New York Liberal Democrat that has only recently came over to the Republican/conservative side.   


I also suspect he has only came over to our side because he realized it would have been impossible for him to take the nomination away from a Democrat who is already in the line of "succession."  His only chance of winning was as a Republican,  so that's what he did.   


I never thought Trump could be fully trusted,  I always thought he would do stuff like this.  That being said,  I am still thrilled to death that we didn't end up with that Psychotic Nazi hate-witch Hillary.   


I'll live with Trump being Trump.

 

I heard both sides too.  I will admit to being in the category of rationalizing away part of what I heard...  "He'll learn when he gets elected...  his advisers will clue him in.... he'll come to understand the role of FedGov under our Constitution...."

(You can call me naive.)

[skeeter]

I reply saying that your response is an apples and oranges comparison!

We are focused on House members, the Representatives that were elected or re-elected by voters (mostly GOP voters, but not exclusively in many cases), in contrast to General Election Trump voters.

And let me be very clear, in my personal opinion, Trump screwed up royally on the campaign trail with respect to his rhetoric on the fate of the ACA.

To be succinct and not have to dig up a volume of direct quotes, he spoke out of both sides of his mouth on the subject.  On one hand he would often say: "Day one folks.... day one....  what are we going to do?  That's right, get rid of Obamacare..... all of it, folks.... all of it..... its got to go folks.... its got to go.....  it is hurting too many people... its bad.... Day one.... Day one we end it..."  (or something very close).

On the other hand he would say: "Folks we are going to replace it with some better.... much, much better....  we are going to have fantastic choices for everyone.... that's right.... everyone....  a lot of Republicans won't like my plan.... they won't.... but we are going to cover everyone..... even those that can't afford it.... we've got to folks.... its the right thing to do.... its the right thing to do...."


I suggest that in light of the above, there was a LOT of selective listening going on....  many people heard what they wanted to hear from the above.... and either ignored (or rationalized away) what they didn't want to hear....

How many times has the GOP in the House voted to repeal ACA since the GOP took over? Between 6 and 60, depending upon who you ask.

The GOP has been riding the 'full repeal' bandwagon since 2010.

[geronl]

Wow.  Collins could only get a lower score if he invited Putin to lunch.

She. Susan Collins from Maine (I think)

[Emjay]

Heh!  I think that everyone here recognizes that a VAST majority of those votes were proffered by the disingenuous members that knew (a priori) that the results of their legislation would end up on the scrap heap of Obama's veto.

Call me a pessimist, but I think that 90+% of the GOP House and Senate are more than happy with the status quo, with respect to the ACA and too many other issues.

Calling you a pessimist would be an understatement, but you fit in pretty good with the general sentiment here.

[Emjay]

She. Susan Collins from Maine (I think)

Susan has that odd look ... just seeing her, you would immediately take her to be a democrat.

[txradioguy]

She. Susan Collins from Maine (I think)

No the one in question is a dude from NY.

[Emjay]

That's probably because under Bubba Clinton's infamous Oral Office desk ...there's a hidden door in the floor, leading to a hellmouth portal.  All the DC insiders go and come through that portal several times a week.  Problem is, the more times they go in, the less rightie they come out....as planned, of course....lol.

Of course, that's just a supposition on my part.  Could also be aliens/ETs that have podded them all.   

That is a farfetched idea that somehow sounds believable.

I live on a little cul de sac that is populated by pod people.  There are probably 17 little kids under the age of six (this in a neighborhood of maybe 10 houses).  They all look alike ...they are blond and chubby and adorable and dangerous.  I have nearly been killed many times.  They go up to the top of steep driveways and come down at warp speed on their little devices disguised as skateboards, scooters and tricycles.

[XenaLee]

That is a farfetched idea that somehow sounds believable.

I live on a little cul de sac that is populated by pod people.  There are probably 17 little kids under the age of six (this in a neighborhood of maybe 10 houses).  They all look alike ...they are blond and chubby and adorable and dangerous.  I have nearly been killed many times.  They go up to the top of steep driveways and come down at warp speed on their little devices disguised as skateboards, scooters and tricycles.

I've known some pod people.  They remind me of this infamous quip by Bob Hope....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4a6YdNmK77k