'Why not Texit?': Texas nationalists look to the Brexit vote for inspiration (from British newspaper)

[goatprairie]

It was not necessary for secession to mean war.  Perpetuating slavery was without question the reason that the seven states of the deep South seceded.  The cause of the war was that the Lincoln Administration would not tolerate secession.  Also please recall that the four states of the upper south seceded in response to Lincoln's call to raise an army against the original seven Confederate states.

Lincoln didn't actually start hostilities against the Confederacy until Fort Sumter. He appealed to the South for several months after the election to come back. All pleas went unheeded. Then when the South fired on federal troops, Lincoln had no choice.
Remember, Lincoln considered it a rebellion...he never thought the Confederate states was a separate country and used to chastise his generals when they talked about "driving the foe from our soil." To Lincoln the whole country, north and south, was their soil.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Are you a Texan? What makes you an expert the seriousness of the Texas Nationalist Movement? There is a very serious effort for Texas to secede.

I've been hearing proposals like this since I first got involved in politics on the internet. They have all amounted to exactly jack squat.

[Ghost Bear]

Ability of states to secede is decided by USSC then by force. Your opinion is meaningless in the whole argument.

No, I believe the Federal Legislature would have a say in the proceedings before the Supreme Court would.

Why jealousy, exactly? My opinion of the whole debate is that it's nothing but the meaningless prattle of keyboard warriors. There's no serious push for Texas to secede. The TX GOP may throw a bone to fringe elements within it, but that's all it is. Just a bone, nothing more.

So why are you getting all het up about it? Let us crazies discuss our craziness in peace and you can safely ignore us.   

[goatprairie]

After rereading some of the posts, I believe that those arguing against the ability of a state to secede may simply be jealous.

Whether jealousy or just plain fear, those are powerful motivations to interfere with liberty, aren't they?

Jealous of what? You (mistakenly) believe Texas has more rights than any other state? It doesn't. There is no agreement between the fed. gov. and Texas that it can secede if it feels like it. When it joined the union it gave up all rights as a separate country. It was then a state of the union with the same rights as any other state .  No more, no less.

[HoustonSam]

Lincoln didn't actually start hostilties against the Confederacy until Fort Sumter. He appealed to the South for several months after the election to come back. All pleas went unheeded. Then when the South fired on federal troops, Lincoln had no choice.
Remember, Lincoln considered it a rebellion...he never thought the Confederate states was as separate country and used to chastise his generals when they talked about "driving the foe from our soil." To Lincoln the whole country, north and south, was their soil.

I believe those facts essentially validate my point.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

No, I believe the Federal Legislature would have a say in the proceedings before the Supreme Court would.

So why are you getting all het up about it? Let us crazies discuss our craziness in peace and you can safely ignore us.   

This is an open forum, I may offer my opinion on any subject.

[Ghost Bear]

This is an open forum, I may offer my opinion on any subject.

Yup, and we may freely ignore and/or make fun of you.   

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Yup, and we may freely ignore and/or make fun of you.   

Go ahead. Anyone who forms their opinion based on what others on the internet think of them shouldn't be on the internet IMO.

[Ghost Bear]

Jealous of what? You (mistakenly) believe Texas has more rights than any other state? It doesn't. There is no agreement between the fed. gov. and Texas that it can secede if it feels like it. When it joined the union it gave up all rights as a separate country. It was then a state of the union with the same rights as any other state .  No more, no less.

So, do you then believe that no state has the power to pursue secession?

(Edited for a typo.)

[goatprairie]

I believe those facts essentially validate my point.

"essentially validate my point."

Which is what?

[Ghost Bear]

Go ahead. Anyone who forms their opinion based on what others on the internet think of them shouldn't be on the internet IMO.

I agree with you! Hooray! We have reached agreement on at least one issue today.

Time for lunch!

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

So, do you then believe that no state has the power to pursue secession?

(Edited for a typo.)

Meaningless statement. Do you mean legal power? Obviously states have actual power (ie. dudes with guns). Disputes are settled on the battlefield. Same as all throughout history.

[Ghost Bear]

Meaningless statement. Do you mean legal power? Obviously states have actual power (ie. dudes with guns). Disputes are settled on the battlefield. Same as all throughout history.

I wasn't asking YOU.  But since you asked, yes, I meant legal power.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

I wasn't asking YOU.  But since you asked, yes, I meant legal power.

Theoretically, I believe that if a state holds a referendum, and more than 50% of the voting population agrees with it, then there may be a case for a state to have the moral authority to secede actually.

[Ghost Bear]

Theoretically, I believe that if a state holds a referendum, and more than 50% of the voting population agrees with it, then there may be a case for a state to have the moral authority to secede actually.

Two things we agree on!  I'm definitely going to lunch now!   

[austingirl]

I've been hearing proposals like this since I first got involved in politics on the internet. They have all amounted to exactly jack squat.

So you are not a Texan. Did you check out the Texas Nationalist Movement website?

[MACVSOG68]

So, do you then believe that no state has the power to pursue secession?

(Edited for a typo.)

Through Article V or force of arms.

[mirraflake]

I've been hearing proposals like this since I first got involved in politics on the internet. They have all amounted to exactly jack squat.

Texans narcissistic,  braggadocious bullshit makes both Trump and Obama combined look like pikers.

@Weird Tolkienish Figure

[HoustonSam]

"essentially validate my point."

Which is what?

Please see my reply to you upthread in #140.  That secession did not have to mean war.  The war occurred because Lincoln chose to not tolerate secession.

[HoustonSam]

So if the Articles created a perpetual union unalterable by any state, and the Constitution created a more perfect union, those who now believe it can be altered by a state have a tough row to hoe.

Only if "perfect" means "perpetual" and "unalterable by any state."  Why should that be the case for a political union?

One could argue that a "perfect" political union is one alterable by any state.  Since secession is not mentioned in the Constitution but all powers not delegated to the Federal Government are reserved to the states, and the people, I would more likely think that "more perfect" does mean alterable by any state.

[Smokin Joe]

Ability of states to secede is decided by USSC then by force. Your opinion is meaningless in the whole argument.

Why jealousy, exactly? My opinion of the whole debate is that it's nothing but the meaningless prattle of keyboard warriors. There's no serious push for Texas to secede. The TX GOP may throw a bone to fringe elements within it, but that's all it is. Just a bone, nothing more.

Nothing like lettin' massah decide who is gonna be a slave.

[Sanguine]

Texans narcissistic,  braggadocious bullshit makes both Trump and Obama combined look like pikers.

@Weird Tolkienish Figure

Well, that's a useful, fact-based comment.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

What is?

Go reread your post #108

he does obey the letter of the law

[IsailedawayfromFR]

It was then a state of the union with the same rights as any other state .  No more, no less.

You never read the Congressional Resolutions on post #57 which gave Texas rights that no other state possessed when it joined.  If you had, you would never post such a knowingly false statement.

[truth_seeker]

Are you a Texan? What makes you an expert the seriousness of the Texas Nationalist Movement? There is a very serious effort for Texas to secede.

Haven't you heard? The definition of an "expert" is anybody over 50 miles from home, with a briefcase.

My grandfather was nicknamed "Tex," yet I have no idea if he ever set foot in Texas.

Finally, I thought "Texan" was a state of mind.