The Die-Hard Republicans who say #NeverTrump

[R4 TrumPence]

I found this wonderful quote from Forrest Gump:  stupid is as stupid does.

Here ya go, now repeat that last line

[truth_seeker]

So as we wrap up another day, we find the GOP establishment, the media complex, the other opponents all attacking Trump. It goes without saying, the democrats are holding their fire.

All of this talk about how many Republicans vow to not support him is less meaningfull, than those pushing it claim.

Republican self-identification is down, to low 20s percentwise. If 35% of 20% won't vote for Trump, that is only 7% which can likely be offset by democrats, independents and increased turnout.

Oh and probably some of the 35% will come to their senses. (If he math is too hard, we can get you tutors)

He soldiers on, and we'll just have to patiently wait for the results tomorrow.

[DCPatriot]

So as we wrap up another day, we find the GOP establishment, the media complex, the other opponents all attacking Trump. It goes without saying, the democrats are holding their fire.

All of this talk about how many Republicans vow to not support him is less meaningfull, than those pushing it claim.

Republican self-identification is down, to low 20s percentwise. If 35% of 20% won't vote for Trump, that is only 7% which can likely be offset by democrats, independents and increased turnout.

Oh and probably some of the 35% will come to their senses. (If he math is too hard, we can get you tutors)

He soldiers on, and we'll just have to patiently wait for the results tomorrow.

Hard as it is to imagine, my respect for you has grown exponentially in here, my friend.

You've always have been a thorn to certain members of the SOCON bent here, but Steve...you've been on fire!

Thanks for fighting the good fight!   

[libertybele]

That collection of voices is so inspiring (especially after the last depressing couple of days,  with the Christie endorsement and all the  ).    So many patriotic Americans, who place country above party and ideology.   

You're right sink, this is a movement, a coalition of the willing.  We will survive the next four years,  so long as it's without Trump.

There is a movement alright; a movement to abolish the GOP, conservatism and to shred the Constitution. I think it is very important to remember what exactly is at stake this election.  It's not a matter of surviving the next 4 years. Hillary will be able to appoint 2 or more justices to the Supreme Court; the courts will be weighted to the left for decades.

The choice is either Hillary and a liberal SCOTUS or roll the dice with Trump!  Hell of a decision isn't it?  I am praying for a miracle and God willing we will have another choice.

[alicewonders]

Trump doesn't have a clue either.  Eradicating state lines when there is a mandate nullifies the benefits of eradicating those lines.  And we KNOW Trump loves the mandate.

I heard him say the only part of the mandate he would keep is the mandate to cover pre-existing conditions.  Heard it with my own ears.  Actually listen to him sometimes, it won't hurt you.

[truth_seeker]

Hard as it is to imagine, my respect for you has grown exponentially in here, my friend.

I do not deserve compliments. You deserve compliments for standing strong while I watched, trying to decide if it was worth it to get involved.

[sinkspur]

I heard him say the only part of the mandate he would keep is the mandate to cover pre-existing conditions.  Heard it with my own ears.  Actually listen to him sometimes, it won't hurt you.

The only way to mandate covering pre-existing conditions is to mandate that everyone have insurance. Otherwise, why buy insurance?  Just wait til you get sick, get insurance then, and stick it to the insurance companies.

Shows how ignorant Trump is about healthcare.

[Bill Cipher]

I heard him say the only part of the mandate he would keep is the mandate to cover pre-existing conditions.  Heard it with my own ears.  Actually listen to him sometimes, it won't hurt you.

Which is one of the main drivers of exploding premiums.  Which basically means he would keep all of the price drivers, and get rid of all the offsetting price reducers.  That's a recipe for deficits on steroids.  Maybe instead of just listening to Trump you should also think about what he said and think it through to its logical conclusions.  In this case, the logical conclusion is exploding deficits that would make Obama look like a paragon of fiscal restraint.

[Bill Cipher]

So as we wrap up another day, we find the GOP establishment, the media complex, the other opponents all attacking Trump. It goes without saying, the democrats are holding their fire.

All of this talk about how many Republicans vow to not support him is less meaningfull, than those pushing it claim.

Republican self-identification is down, to low 20s percentwise. If 35% of 20% won't vote for Trump, that is only 7% which can likely be offset by democrats, independents and increased turnout.

Oh and probably some of the 35% will come to their senses. (If he math is too hard, we can get you tutors)

He soldiers on, and we'll just have to patiently wait for the results tomorrow.

You lost Once-ler yesterday; I think you might want to reconsider.

[aligncare]

I do not deserve compliments. You deserve compliments for standing strong while I watched, trying to decide if it was worth it to get involved.

It's definitely worth getting involved. We'll need plenty of people on the front lines. The pushback against Trump by establishment forces has been brutal. Only a Donald Trump could have withstood the onslaught.

They are fighting to maintain their status quo, so they certainly won't go down without a fight.

 

[alicewonders]

Which is one of the main drivers of exploding premiums.  Which basically means he would keep all of the price drivers, and get rid of all the offsetting price reducers.  That's a recipe for deficits on steroids.  Maybe instead of just listening to Trump you should also think about what he said and think it through to its logical conclusions.  In this case, the logical conclusion is exploding deficits that would make Obama look like a paragon of fiscal restraint.

There are ways to make it competitive and cheaper than Obamacare.  Gov't subsidies for certain conditions, different levels of coverage, health savings accounts - there are lots of ways to make it better.  Don't be so close-minded.

[R4 TrumPence]

I didn't know about Once-ler.  Oceander, Luis, Once-ler....those are great losses in my opinion and just the tip of the iceberg that the Trump nomination would bring.

cuky,

Dont worry, they are not gone for long. i love them all but drama queens are for men too

[Vulcan]

[mountaineer]

There is a movement alright; a movement to abolish the GOP, conservatism and to shred the Constitution. I think it is very important to remember what exactly is at stake this election.  It's not a matter of surviving the next 4 years. Hillary will be able to appoint 2 or more justices to the Supreme Court; the courts will be weighted to the left for decades.

The choice is either Hillary and a liberal SCOTUS or roll the dice with Trump!  Hell of a decision isn't it?  I am praying for a miracle and God willing we will have another choice.

Exactly. We know just how awful Hillary would be, just as we knew in 2008 just how awful Obama would be - and he proved us right. I do not want any of the Democrats appointing judges. Further, with all this talk about Trump's version of Obamacare, are we forgetting that Congress would have to go along with it? If we ensure that the right people are reelected to Congress (yes, there's more at stake this November than the White House), even if Trump is elected, perhaps that won't be a problem.

[DCPatriot]

Exactly. We know just how awful Hillary would be, just as we knew in 2008 just how awful Obama would be - and he proved us right. I do not want any of the Democrats appointing judges. Further, with all this talk about Trump's version of Obamacare, are we forgetting that Congress would have to go along with it? If we ensure that the right people are reelected to Congress (yes, there's more at stake this November than the White House), even if Trump is elected, perhaps that won't be a problem.

...which is the claim I made on Day 1 of his announcement to run.

A super majority Congress would tie him up....OTOH...Donald Trump will savage 'his own' party, if Republicans can be painted as obstructionists.

[massadvj]

I must say this campaign is causing me to really evaluate my convictions, and ask myself some hard questions.  I have often wondered what I would have done at the flex points in history.  For example, prior to the Civil War would I have been a Democrat or a Republican?  Had I been alive in Germany during the 1930s, would I have gone with Hitler?  These are big questions for me because I am a former radical leftist, so I know that I can be susceptible to false propaganda that tugs at the emotion.  This is the reason I chose to ground my political philosophy in the reasoning of Locke, Jefferson, Hayek and Friedman, and the legal manifestation of that reasoning, which is the Bill of Rights.  Thanks to a paradigm as simple as "Life, Liberty, Property" I know what I stand for and what I believe in.

Now all of a sudden I am to support a man who in the recent past has supported various types of gun control (a violation of the right to Life), taking away the civil liberties of Muslims (a violation of religious liberty), changing the libel laws so that the press will be less free to write what they want (a violation of free speech), and increasing government authority in eminent domain (a violation of individual property rights).  And that is just the tip of the iceberg with this man.  There is simply no compatibility with Trump's point of view and classical liberal philosophy.  None.  If he is the nominee of the Republican Party I will be at a loss as to what to do.

When a demagogue like Trump comes along, it shakes me to the core because I have seen what happens to societies that, in desperation, turn to demagogues.  I honestly believe Trump could be a very, very dangerous man who steers this country to a dark place.  And I would hate myself for being part of the rabble that enabled him.  So for now I am going to cling to the hope that my party comes to its senses before I am stuck with a personal ethical dilemma of monumental proportions.

[sinkspur]

[libertybele]

I must say this campaign is causing me to really evaluate my convictions, and ask myself some hard questions.  I have often wondered what I would have done at the flex points in history.  For example, prior to the Civil War would I have been a Democrat or a Republican?  Had I been alive in Germany during the 1930s, would I have gone with Hitler?  These are big questions for me because I am a former radical leftist, so I know that I can be susceptible to false propaganda that tugs at the emotion.  This is the reason I chose to ground my political philosophy in the reasoning of Locke, Jefferson, Hayek and Friedman, and the legal manifestation of that reasoning, which is the Bill of Rights.  Thanks to a paradigm as simple as "Life, Liberty, Property" I know what I stand for and what I believe in.

Now all of a sudden I am to support a man who in the recent past has supported various types of gun control (a violation of the right to Life), taking away the civil liberties of Muslims (a violation of religious liberty), changing the libel laws so that the press will be less free to write what they want (a violation of free speech), and increasing government authority in eminent domain (a violation of individual property rights).  And that is just the tip of the iceberg with this man.  There is simply no compatibility with Trump's point of view and classical liberal philosophy.  None.  If he is the nominee of the Republican Party I will be at a loss as to what to do.

When a demagogue like Trump comes along, it shakes me to the core because I have seen what happens to societies that, in desperation, turn to demagogues.  I honestly believe Trump could be a very, very dangerous man who steers this country to a dark place.  And I would hate myself for being part of the rabble that enabled him.  So for now I am going to cling to the hope that my party comes to its senses before I am stuck with a personal ethical dilemma of monumental proportions.

I have read your commentary several times as it mirrors my fears and perceptions of Trump.  I have wrestled in my head and have gone back and forth on this issue.  How could I possibly vote for Trump?  I thought I had a clear answer until I read this. Perhaps the most important issue in this election is the appointment of justices.  I know that Hillary without a doubt would appoint liberal justices and I saw a slight glimmer of hope that perhaps with Trump, he may, by a slight chance appoint a conservative.  However, now, I am reconsidering that thought.  A liberal SCOTUS would allow him to have free reign.  So...I am back to my original thought; I will write in a candidate if Trump is the nominee.  Many say that it would be handing Hillary the presidency, but I am voting my heart, my gut, my conscious.  I don't feel I can vote any differently and I certainly can't stay home and not vote.  I have never missed a primary nor a general election and I don't intend to do so now.

[mountaineer]

I would urge everyone to find a congressional candidate to support, and do what you can to get him or her elected. No matter who is in the White House, we need a solid majority in both houses of Congress.

[Jazzhead]

I must say this campaign is causing me to really evaluate my convictions, and ask myself some hard questions.  I have often wondered what I would have done at the flex points in history.  For example, prior to the Civil War would I have been a Democrat or a Republican?  Had I been alive in Germany during the 1930s, would I have gone with Hitler?  These are big questions for me because I am a former radical leftist, so I know that I can be susceptible to false propaganda that tugs at the emotion.  This is the reason I chose to ground my political philosophy in the reasoning of Locke, Jefferson, Hayek and Friedman, and the legal manifestation of that reasoning, which is the Bill of Rights.  Thanks to a paradigm as simple as "Life, Liberty, Property" I know what I stand for and what I believe in.

Now all of a sudden I am to support a man who in the recent past has supported various types of gun control (a violation of the right to Life), taking away the civil liberties of Muslims (a violation of religious liberty), changing the libel laws so that the press will be less free to write what they want (a violation of free speech), and increasing government authority in eminent domain (a violation of individual property rights).  And that is just the tip of the iceberg with this man.  There is simply no compatibility with Trump's point of view and classical liberal philosophy.  None.  If he is the nominee of the Republican Party I will be at a loss as to what to do.

When a demagogue like Trump comes along, it shakes me to the core because I have seen what happens to societies that, in desperation, turn to demagogues.  I honestly believe Trump could be a very, very dangerous man who steers this country to a dark place.  And I would hate myself for being part of the rabble that enabled him.  So for now I am going to cling to the hope that my party comes to its senses before I am stuck with a personal ethical dilemma of monumental proportions.

Very wise words.  I've hoping to ultimately avoid a moral and ethical dilemma too,  but as of right now the nominee has not been chosen.  That compels me to speak as forcefully as I can about what is at stake in this election,  and even to threaten to vote for Clinton is that if what it takes to stop this American Fascist.

We may need to abandon the GOP in order to save it.  But Mountaineer is right -  if we cannot in good conscience vote for the Republican Presidential nominee,  we need to work all the harder to save the GOP's majorities in Congress - and to urge others to split their votes.     

[libertybele]

I would urge everyone to find a congressional candidate to support, and do what you can to get him or her elected. No matter who is in the White House, we need a solid majority in both houses of Congress.

     Absolutely.  Equally important is placing conservatives at the state and local level.

[Bigun]

I must say this campaign is causing me to really evaluate my convictions, and ask myself some hard questions.  I have often wondered what I would have done at the flex points in history.  For example, prior to the Civil War would I have been a Democrat or a Republican?  Had I been alive in Germany during the 1930s, would I have gone with Hitler?  These are big questions for me because I am a former radical leftist, so I know that I can be susceptible to false propaganda that tugs at the emotion.  This is the reason I chose to ground my political philosophy in the reasoning of Locke, Jefferson, Hayek and Friedman, and the legal manifestation of that reasoning, which is the Bill of Rights.  Thanks to a paradigm as simple as "Life, Liberty, Property" I know what I stand for and what I believe in.

Now all of a sudden I am to support a man who in the recent past has supported various types of gun control (a violation of the right to Life), taking away the civil liberties of Muslims (a violation of religious liberty), changing the libel laws so that the press will be less free to write what they want (a violation of free speech), and increasing government authority in eminent domain (a violation of individual property rights).  And that is just the tip of the iceberg with this man.  There is simply no compatibility with Trump's point of view and classical liberal philosophy.  None.  If he is the nominee of the Republican Party I will be at a loss as to what to do.

When a demagogue like Trump comes along, it shakes me to the core because I have seen what happens to societies that, in desperation, turn to demagogues.  I honestly believe Trump could be a very, very dangerous man who steers this country to a dark place.  And I would hate myself for being part of the rabble that enabled him.  So for now I am going to cling to the hope that my party comes to its senses before I am stuck with a personal ethical dilemma of monumental proportions.

Very well said Victor!  The bottom line I have come to is that anyone who votes for Trump can never again call themselves a conservative!

[Jazzhead]

I found this great line at free republic:

As out of touch and ignorant you thought the Establishment GOP was, it's really 100 times worse than that.

The "establishment GOP" includes a lot of ordinary Americans, who are appalled by Trump's nascent fascism and appeals to nativism and bigotry.   If that makes my ignorance "100 times worse" than the Trumpsters', then I'll wear it as a badge of honor.   

[Scottftlc]

"establishment GOP" includes a lot of ordinary Americans

Well now there is one for the ages.  I didn't know that many ordinary Americans were raking in money from donors.  Damn, you learn something every day.

[sinkspur]

"establishment GOP" includes a lot of ordinary Americans

Well now there is one for the ages.  I didn't know that many ordinary Americans were raking in money from donors.  Damn, you learn something every day.

Well, they damn sure know that putting one of the donors in charge is the height of idiocy.