Author Topic: The Kavanaugh Opening Revisited: Did the Court Close Congress’ Door?  (Read 685 times)

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Online Luis Gonzalez

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The Kavanaugh Opening: A Challenge From Someone Who Actually Knows Constitutional Law

Sometimes the best articles don't begin with agreement. They begin with someone calling your argument into question.

This piece exists because @Bigun, someone whose opinions I respect because he actually knows his shit when it comes to Constitutional Law, challenged the premise of my previous article.

He argued that I had overlooked something important in Justice Kavanaugh's opinion.

The more I dug into it, the more I realized he was right.

Rather than simply defend my original position, I went back to the opinions, reread the decision, and discovered what I believe is the real constitutional opening Kavanaugh intentionally left behind.

It isn't about whether Trump was right or wrong.

It's about what the Supreme Court actually decided...and, just as importantly, what it deliberately refused to decide.

If my analysis is correct, the most significant part of the decision isn't in the majority opinion at all.

It's buried in Kavanaugh's concurrence.

The Last Wire:



Questions for discussion:

  • Did Kavanaugh identify a constitutional path the administration can still pursue?
  • Is this simply judicial restraint, or was the Court inviting a different procedural approach?
  • Does his concurrence leave open a future challenge with a more developed factual record?
  • Am I reading too much into it, or did Kavanaugh quietly hand future administrations a roadmap?

As always, criticism is welcome. The article itself is the direct result of criticism from someone on this forum whose legal instincts I trust, and I think the final product is stronger because of it.

Looking forward to hearing what everyone else sees.

— Gonzo

« Last Edit: Tuesday, Jul 28, 2026 06:49 am by Luis Gonzalez »
“Perhaps we’ll have some answers, at least, before the end. I always dreamed of dying well-informed.” ― Joe Abercrombie, The First Law Trilogy

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“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place." — Frederic Bastiat

Online Luis Gonzalez

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Re: The Kavanaugh Opening Revisited: Did the Court Close Congress’ Door?
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday, Jul 28, 2026 06:45 am »
A curious thing has happened in the debate over Kavanaugh’s opinion: some people have managed to transform a narrow constitutional argument into a conclusion the justice never actually reached.

Kavanaugh did not say the President could rewrite the Citizenship Clause with a stroke of a pen. He did not say an executive order could accomplish what only constitutional amendment or valid legislation could attempt. He agreed the executive action before the Court failed.

The disagreement was not about the result. It was about the road that leads to the next constitutional question.

And this is where history matters.

The Constitution does not operate as a collection of absolute commands without interpretation. The First Amendment is a perfect example. It protects freedom of speech, yet no serious constitutional scholar argues that it protects every possible utterance without consequence.

Libel and slander laws exist. A person cannot knowingly publish false statements that destroy another person’s reputation and then simply wave the First Amendment as a magic shield. True threats, incitement, fraud, and perjury have all been addressed within the constitutional framework.

Why?

Because constitutional rights have boundaries. Those boundaries are tested through legislation, litigation, and judicial review.

Congress passes laws. Courts decide whether those laws fit within the Constitution.

That is the point Kavanaugh was making.

His observation was not that Congress could ignore the Fourteenth Amendment. Congress cannot do that any more than it can pass a law abolishing the First Amendment.

His point was that Congress, unlike the executive branch acting alone, has legislative authority. If Congress enacted a statute addressing birthright citizenship, that law would create a constitutional question for the Court to answer.

Maybe the Court would uphold it. Maybe the Court would strike it down.

But that is how constitutional government works.

The Constitution does not prohibit every difficult question from reaching the courts. It provides the mechanism for resolving those questions.

The remarkable thing about Kavanaugh’s opinion is how modest it actually is. He did not declare victory for either side. He did not announce a new rule. He simply identified that the constitutional debate belongs in the legislative process, followed by judicial review.

Those who insist Kavanaugh “ruled” one way or another are arguing with an opinion he did not write.

The opening he identified is not the answer.

It is the doorway through which the question must pass.
“Perhaps we’ll have some answers, at least, before the end. I always dreamed of dying well-informed.” ― Joe Abercrombie, The First Law Trilogy

"The growth of knowledge depends entirely upon disagreement." — Karl Popper

“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place." — Frederic Bastiat

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Re: The Kavanaugh Opening Revisited: Did the Court Close Congress’ Door?
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday, Jul 28, 2026 06:51 am »
 :2popcorn:
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I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline Bigun

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Re: The Kavanaugh Opening Revisited: Did the Court Close Congress’ Door?
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday, Jul 28, 2026 09:03 am »
Thank you for the kind words @Luis Gonzalez and for writing this piece. I hope it gets widely read and debated.

My position has not changed and rather than rehash things here I will simply refer everyone back to your previous article beginning here

I assume the justices ability to read (at least eight of them) and that they took these words "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" under consideration in their deliberations.

Scientists, like all discoverers of truth, have always asked, "What?” “How?” “Why?” “What if?” and “Why not?” Questioning science is science.

Jaeger, John . Brilliant Creations : The Wonder of Nature and Life (p. 5). Kindle Edition.

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Re: The Kavanaugh Opening Revisited: Did the Court Close Congress’ Door?
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday, Jul 28, 2026 09:20 am »
Thank you for the kind words @Luis Gonzalez and for writing this piece. I hope it gets widely read and debated.

My position has not changed and rather than rehash things here I will simply refer everyone back to your previous article beginning here

I assume the justices ability to read (at least eight of them) and that they took these words "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" under consideration in their deliberations.


All that the majority opinion basically said was that the Executive can’t change the laws via fiat.

Period. Kavanaugh agreed? Then laid out the path on how to do it.

You’re stuck in a dead end with your opinion.
“Perhaps we’ll have some answers, at least, before the end. I always dreamed of dying well-informed.” ― Joe Abercrombie, The First Law Trilogy

"The growth of knowledge depends entirely upon disagreement." — Karl Popper

“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place." — Frederic Bastiat

Offline Bigun

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Re: The Kavanaugh Opening Revisited: Did the Court Close Congress’ Door?
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday, Jul 28, 2026 09:29 am »
All that the majority opinion basically said was that the Executive can’t change the laws via fiat. Period. Kavanaugh agreed? Then laid out the path on how to do it. 

I respectfully disagree! The majority did much more than that and, IMHO, you are grasping at straws.

Quote
You’re stuck in a dead end with your opinion.

Right back at ya! Quoting General Cornwallis at Yorktown, "You dream sir! You dream!"

From the majority opinion:
Quote
Held: Children born in the United States to parents unlawfully or tem-
porarily present are “subject to the jurisdiction” of the United States
and are citizens at birth under the Fourteenth Amendment’s Citizen-
ship Clause. Pp. 2–26.

The fact that Kavanaugh dissented from their reasoning in getting there is of zero consequence IMO. @Luis Gonzalez
« Last Edit: Tuesday, Jul 28, 2026 10:04 am by Bigun »
Scientists, like all discoverers of truth, have always asked, "What?” “How?” “Why?” “What if?” and “Why not?” Questioning science is science.

Jaeger, John . Brilliant Creations : The Wonder of Nature and Life (p. 5). Kindle Edition.

Online Luis Gonzalez

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Re: The Kavanaugh Opening Revisited: Did the Court Close Congress’ Door?
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday, Jul 28, 2026 11:07 am »
I respectfully disagree! The majority did much more than that and, IMHO, you are grasping at straws.

Right back at ya! Quoting General Cornwallis at Yorktown, "You dream sir! You dream!"

From the majority opinion:
The fact that Kavanaugh dissented from their reasoning in getting there is of zero consequence IMO. @Luis Gonzalez

So you are saying Kavanaugh does not understand the subject sufficiently enough to have an opinion worthy of consideration on the subject.

Got it.
« Last Edit: Tuesday, Jul 28, 2026 11:07 am by Luis Gonzalez »
“Perhaps we’ll have some answers, at least, before the end. I always dreamed of dying well-informed.” ― Joe Abercrombie, The First Law Trilogy

"The growth of knowledge depends entirely upon disagreement." — Karl Popper

“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place." — Frederic Bastiat

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Re: The Kavanaugh Opening Revisited: Did the Court Close Congress’ Door?
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday, Jul 28, 2026 11:45 am »
This exchange is why I popped corn....
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I will NOT comply.
 
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Online Luis Gonzalez

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Re: The Kavanaugh Opening Revisited: Did the Court Close Congress’ Door?
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday, Jul 28, 2026 11:53 am »
I respectfully disagree! The majority did much more than that and, IMHO, you are grasping at straws.

Right back at ya! Quoting General Cornwallis at Yorktown, "You dream sir! You dream!"

From the majority opinion:
The fact that Kavanaugh dissented from their reasoning in getting there is of zero consequence IMO. @Luis Gonzalez

You better read the opinions.

Much of the commentary surrounding Justice Kavanaugh’s concurrence misses what he actually wrote.

Kavanaugh did not disagree with the result in Trump v. Barbara. He agreed the President lacked authority to alter birthright citizenship by executive order. On that point, he agreed the executive action failed.

His concurrence was about something entirely different.

He focused on who possesses constitutional authority to raise the question.

The majority addressed the Fourteenth Amendment directly. Kavanaugh approached the issue institutionally. His opinion distinguishes executive action from congressional legislation.

The sentence that has received surprisingly little attention is this:

“Congress could, consistent with the Fourteenth Amendment, amend §1401(a) or otherwise enact new legislation establishing exceptions to birthright citizenship…”

Notice what he did not say.

He did not say Congress would prevail.

He did not say such legislation would survive judicial review.

He did not say the Fourteenth Amendment can be ignored.

He simply identified Congress as the constitutionally proper branch to present that question to the judiciary.

That distinction matters because it is how constitutional law has developed throughout our history.

Take the First Amendment.

It guarantees freedom of speech, yet no serious lawyer believes every form of speech is absolutely protected. Libel, slander, fraud, perjury, true threats, and incitement may all carry legal consequences under constitutional standards developed by the courts.

Does that mean the First Amendment has been repealed?

Of course not.

It means constitutional rights have boundaries that are defined through legislation and judicial review.

Congress enacts laws.

The courts determine whether those laws remain within constitutional limits.

Kavanaugh’s concurrence reflects that same institutional process.

The question is not whether Congress may violate the Fourteenth Amendment. It cannot.

The question is whether Congress has constitutional authority to legislate in this area and present a constitutional issue the Supreme Court has not yet addressed in the context of an Act of Congress.

That is a very different proposition.

Interestingly, even organizations that oppose restricting birthright citizenship acknowledge this procedural point. The Brennan Center describes Kavanaugh’s concurrence as providing a “road map” for Congress, although it argues such legislation would ultimately fail. The American Immigration Council likewise characterizes his opinion as an invitation for Congress to legislate, while contending any resulting statute would be unconstitutional. The National Constitution Center similarly notes that Kavanaugh separated the question of executive authority from the question of congressional authority.

In other words, even many of Kavanaugh’s critics recognize what he was doing procedurally.

They simply disagree with where they believe that path would ultimately lead.

That is why so much of the media coverage has been incomplete. The headlines focused on the outcome of the case. Kavanaugh’s concurrence focused on the constitutional process.

He did not announce the answer.

He identified the institution authorized to ask the question.

Whether Congress would succeed remains for another day, another statute, and ultimately another decision by the Supreme Court.
“Perhaps we’ll have some answers, at least, before the end. I always dreamed of dying well-informed.” ― Joe Abercrombie, The First Law Trilogy

"The growth of knowledge depends entirely upon disagreement." — Karl Popper

“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place." — Frederic Bastiat

Offline Bigun

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Re: The Kavanaugh Opening Revisited: Did the Court Close Congress’ Door?
« Reply #9 on: Tuesday, Jul 28, 2026 11:58 am »
You better read the opinions.

Much of the commentary surrounding Justice Kavanaugh’s concurrence misses what he actually wrote.

Kavanaugh did not disagree with the result in Trump v. Barbara. He agreed the President lacked authority to alter birthright citizenship by executive order. On that point, he agreed the executive action failed.

His concurrence was about something entirely different.

He focused on who possesses constitutional authority to raise the question.

The majority addressed the Fourteenth Amendment directly. Kavanaugh approached the issue institutionally. His opinion distinguishes executive action from congressional legislation.

The sentence that has received surprisingly little attention is this:

“Congress could, consistent with the Fourteenth Amendment, amend §1401(a) or otherwise enact new legislation establishing exceptions to birthright citizenship…”

Notice what he did not say.

He did not say Congress would prevail.

He did not say such legislation would survive judicial review.

He did not say the Fourteenth Amendment can be ignored.

He simply identified Congress as the constitutionally proper branch to present that question to the judiciary.

That distinction matters because it is how constitutional law has developed throughout our history.

Take the First Amendment.

It guarantees freedom of speech, yet no serious lawyer believes every form of speech is absolutely protected. Libel, slander, fraud, perjury, true threats, and incitement may all carry legal consequences under constitutional standards developed by the courts.

Does that mean the First Amendment has been repealed?

Of course not.

It means constitutional rights have boundaries that are defined through legislation and judicial review.

Congress enacts laws.

The courts determine whether those laws remain within constitutional limits.

Kavanaugh’s concurrence reflects that same institutional process.

The question is not whether Congress may violate the Fourteenth Amendment. It cannot.

The question is whether Congress has constitutional authority to legislate in this area and present a constitutional issue the Supreme Court has not yet addressed in the context of an Act of Congress.

That is a very different proposition.

Interestingly, even organizations that oppose restricting birthright citizenship acknowledge this procedural point. The Brennan Center describes Kavanaugh’s concurrence as providing a “road map” for Congress, although it argues such legislation would ultimately fail. The American Immigration Council likewise characterizes his opinion as an invitation for Congress to legislate, while contending any resulting statute would be unconstitutional. The National Constitution Center similarly notes that Kavanaugh separated the question of executive authority from the question of congressional authority.

In other words, even many of Kavanaugh’s critics recognize what he was doing procedurally.

They simply disagree with where they believe that path would ultimately lead.

That is why so much of the media coverage has been incomplete. The headlines focused on the outcome of the case. Kavanaugh’s concurrence focused on the constitutional process.

He did not announce the answer.

He identified the institution authorized to ask the question.

Whether Congress would succeed remains for another day, another statute, and ultimately another decision by the Supreme Court.

I've read them, posted the courts holding above, and stated my honest opinion. Nothing left for me to say.
Scientists, like all discoverers of truth, have always asked, "What?” “How?” “Why?” “What if?” and “Why not?” Questioning science is science.

Jaeger, John . Brilliant Creations : The Wonder of Nature and Life (p. 5). Kindle Edition.

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Re: The Kavanaugh Opening Revisited: Did the Court Close Congress’ Door?
« Reply #10 on: Tuesday, Jul 28, 2026 12:04 pm »
It just struck me that you don’t actually understand the case. You should try.

The case was NOT about redefining birthright citizenship. It never was.

The car is whether the Executive can, by fiat/Executive orders, modify existing immigration laws. I knew he would lose.

In Kavanaugh’s “concurrence”, he agrees with the majority of the Court, saying that the Executive did NOT that power. Thomas and buddy went off onto some other subject, while Kavanaugh, after agreeing that what Trump had done was in constitutional in the fact that he had used powers not granted to him by that document.  He then went on to explain the actual process on how to do that.

Through Congress with laws defining or adding carve outs that would limit or eliminate birthright citizenship.

Think freedom of speech and yelling fire in a crowded theater.
“Perhaps we’ll have some answers, at least, before the end. I always dreamed of dying well-informed.” ― Joe Abercrombie, The First Law Trilogy

"The growth of knowledge depends entirely upon disagreement." — Karl Popper

“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place." — Frederic Bastiat

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Re: The Kavanaugh Opening Revisited: Did the Court Close Congress’ Door?
« Reply #11 on: Tuesday, Jul 28, 2026 12:04 pm »
Quote
Kavanaugh did not disagree with the result in Trump v. Barbara. He agreed the President lacked authority to alter birthright citizenship by executive order. On that point, he agreed the executive action failed.

:yowsa: How does that alter a thing I've said?
Scientists, like all discoverers of truth, have always asked, "What?” “How?” “Why?” “What if?” and “Why not?” Questioning science is science.

Jaeger, John . Brilliant Creations : The Wonder of Nature and Life (p. 5). Kindle Edition.

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Re: The Kavanaugh Opening Revisited: Did the Court Close Congress’ Door?
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday, Jul 28, 2026 12:06 pm »
You both expressed and defended your points well, which is why I'm glad @Luis Gonzalez pinged you at the top of the thread, @Bigun!  I know you both respect each other greatly....

As for me, I have an opinion I respectfully decline to share.   :whistle:
I don’t owe tolerance to people who disagree with my existence.
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline Bigun

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Re: The Kavanaugh Opening Revisited: Did the Court Close Congress’ Door?
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday, Jul 28, 2026 12:09 pm »
It just struck me that you don’t actually understand the case. You should try.

The case was NOT about redefining birthright citizenship. It never was.

The car is whether the Executive can, by fiat/Executive orders, modify existing immigration laws. I knew he would lose.

In Kavanaugh’s “concurrence”, he agrees with the majority of the Court, saying that the Executive did NOT that power. Thomas and buddy went off onto some other subject, while Kavanaugh, after agreeing that what Trump had done was in constitutional in the fact that he had used powers not granted to him by that document.  He then went on to explain the actual process on how to do that.

Through Congress with laws defining or adding carve outs that would limit or eliminate birthright citizenship.

Think freedom of speech and yelling fire in a crowded theater.

Yet the court held that "Children born in the United States to parents unlawfully or temporarily present are “subject to the jurisdiction” of the United States and are citizens at birth under the Fourteenth Amendment’s Citizenship Clause."

Do you know what the term holding means?
« Last Edit: Tuesday, Jul 28, 2026 12:18 pm by Bigun »
Scientists, like all discoverers of truth, have always asked, "What?” “How?” “Why?” “What if?” and “Why not?” Questioning science is science.

Jaeger, John . Brilliant Creations : The Wonder of Nature and Life (p. 5). Kindle Edition.

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Re: The Kavanaugh Opening Revisited: Did the Court Close Congress’ Door?
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday, Jul 28, 2026 12:11 pm »
You both expressed and defended your points well, which is why I'm glad @Luis Gonzalez pinged you at the top of the thread, @Bigun!  I know you both respect each other greatly....

As for me, I have an opinion I respectfully decline to share.   :whistle:

Coward!  wink777

@Luis Gonzalez and I have known each other online for a LONG time and this is far from the first time we've disagreed about something but disagreeing with someone does not mean we can't still be friends as, I hope, we still are. I respect Luis greatly. Always have. @Cyber Liberty
« Last Edit: Tuesday, Jul 28, 2026 12:32 pm by Bigun »
Scientists, like all discoverers of truth, have always asked, "What?” “How?” “Why?” “What if?” and “Why not?” Questioning science is science.

Jaeger, John . Brilliant Creations : The Wonder of Nature and Life (p. 5). Kindle Edition.

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Re: The Kavanaugh Opening Revisited: Did the Court Close Congress’ Door?
« Reply #15 on: Tuesday, Jul 28, 2026 12:43 pm »
Coward!  wink777

@Luis Gonzalez and I have known each other online for a LONG time and this is far from the first time we've disagreed about something but disagreeing with someone does not mean we can't still be friends as, I hope, we still are. I respect Luis greatly. Always have. @Cyber Liberty


I have also known @Luis Gonzalez for a long time, and have broken bread with him and Mrs Liberty in 2001, in Florida (the fried Gator was great!).  We've also disagreed from time to time, agreeably!  And here we all are!
I don’t owe tolerance to people who disagree with my existence.
I will NOT comply.
 
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Re: The Kavanaugh Opening Revisited: Did the Court Close Congress’ Door?
« Reply #16 on: Tuesday, Jul 28, 2026 12:58 pm »
    Yet the court held that "Children born in the United States to parents unlawfully or temporarily present are “subject to the jurisdiction” of the United States and are citizens at birth under the Fourteenth Amendment’s Citizenship Clause."

    Do you know what the term holding means?


    sigh…

    The holding is the actual legal rule the Court decided and applied to resolve the case. It is narrower than everything discussed in the opinions.

    In Trump v. Barbara, the holding was essentially:

    The President does not have authority, through an executive order alone, to deny birthright citizenship to children born in the United States to parents who are unlawfully or temporarily present, because the executive order conflicts with the Citizenship Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment and existing federal law (8 U.S.C. § 1401).

    In simpler terms:

    • The Court was not deciding whether Congress could pass a new law changing the statutory framework.
    • The Court was not deciding every possible future constitutional argument about birthright citizenship.
    • The Court was deciding whether the President could unilaterally change the rule through executive action.

    Kavanaugh agreed with that result.

    The disagreement was over the reasoning and what remained open afterward.

    The majority said, in substance:

    The Fourteenth Amendment itself answers the question, and the executive order is unconstitutional.

    Kavanaugh said:

    The executive order fails, but there is a separate question about what Congress may do through legislation.

    That is why his sentence matters:

    “Congress could, consistent with the Fourteenth Amendment, amend §1401(a) or otherwise enact new legislation establishing exceptions to birthright citizenship…”

    He was not saying, “Congress wins.”

    He was saying, “Congress is a different constitutional actor than the President, and legislation would present a different case.”

    So the clean distinction is:

    Holding: The President cannot do this by executive order.

    Unresolved question raised by Kavanaugh: What happens if Congress tries to legislate in this area?

    That is the gap your argument is focusing on. A person can disagree with Kavanaugh’s view of that gap, but they have to address the sentence because it is part of the justice’s own explanation of why he reached his conclusion.[/list]
    « Last Edit: Tuesday, Jul 28, 2026 01:03 pm by Luis Gonzalez »
    “Perhaps we’ll have some answers, at least, before the end. I always dreamed of dying well-informed.” ― Joe Abercrombie, The First Law Trilogy

    "The growth of knowledge depends entirely upon disagreement." — Karl Popper

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place." — Frederic Bastiat

    Offline Bigun

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    Re: The Kavanaugh Opening Revisited: Did the Court Close Congress’ Door?
    « Reply #17 on: Tuesday, Jul 28, 2026 01:05 pm »
      sigh…

      The holding is the actual legal rule the Court decided and applied to resolve the case. It is narrower than everything discussed in the opinions.

      In Trump v. Barbara, the holding was essentially:

    The President does not have authority, through an executive order alone, to deny birthright citizenship to children born in the United States to parents who are unlawfully or temporarily present, because the executive order conflicts with the Citizenship Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment and existing federal law (8 U.S.C. § 1401).

    In simpler terms:

    • The Court was not deciding whether Congress could pass a new law changing the statutory framework.
    • The Court was not deciding every possible future constitutional argument about birthright citizenship.
    • The Court was deciding whether the President could unilaterally change the rule through executive action.

    Kavanaugh agreed with that result.

    The disagreement was over the reasoning and what remained open afterward.

    The majority said, in substance:

    The Fourteenth Amendment itself answers the question, and the executive order is unconstitutional.

    Kavanaugh said:

    The executive order fails, but there is a separate question about what Congress may do through legislation.

    That is why his sentence matters:

    “Congress could, consistent with the Fourteenth Amendment, amend §1401(a) or otherwise enact new legislation establishing exceptions to birthright citizenship…”

    He was not saying, “Congress wins.”

    He was saying, “Congress is a different constitutional actor than the President, and legislation would present a different case.”

    So the clean distinction is:

    Holding: The President cannot do this by executive order.

    Unresolved question raised by Kavanaugh: What happens if Congress tries to legislate in this area?

    That is the gap your argument is focusing on. A person can disagree with Kavanaugh’s view of that gap, but they have to address the sentence because it is part of the justice’s own explanation of why he reached his conclusion.[/list]

    I must not be reading the same opinion because I cannot find that anywhere. In any case, I have never wanted you to be right and myself wrong more than in this case but I know I'm not. I'm done.
    « Last Edit: Tuesday, Jul 28, 2026 01:15 pm by Bigun »
    Scientists, like all discoverers of truth, have always asked, "What?” “How?” “Why?” “What if?” and “Why not?” Questioning science is science.

    Jaeger, John . Brilliant Creations : The Wonder of Nature and Life (p. 5). Kindle Edition.

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    Re: The Kavanaugh Opening Revisited: Did the Court Close Congress’ Door?
    « Reply #18 on: Tuesday, Jul 28, 2026 01:30 pm »
    I must not be reading the same opinion because I cannot find that anywhere. In any case, I have never wanted you to be right and myself wrong more than in this case but I know I'm not. I'm done.

    You never read the opinion, or Kavanaugh's concurrence (the actual topic of my articles), which took all of three minutes (going old school GOOGLE search) to locate on the web, or my articles for that matter.


    Had you read my articles, you would have seen it, which may have sparked curiosity and made you look it up... days ago.

    Seriously.
    « Last Edit: Tuesday, Jul 28, 2026 01:32 pm by Luis Gonzalez »
    “Perhaps we’ll have some answers, at least, before the end. I always dreamed of dying well-informed.” ― Joe Abercrombie, The First Law Trilogy

    "The growth of knowledge depends entirely upon disagreement." — Karl Popper

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place." — Frederic Bastiat

    Offline Bigun

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    Re: The Kavanaugh Opening Revisited: Did the Court Close Congress’ Door?
    « Reply #19 on: Tuesday, Jul 28, 2026 02:01 pm »
    You never read the opinion, or Kavanaugh's concurrence (the actual topic of my articles), which took all of three minutes (going old school GOOGLE search) to locate on the web, or my articles for that matter.


    Had you read my articles, you would have seen it, which may have sparked curiosity and made you look it up... days ago.

    Seriously.

    I HAVE read the opinion of the court several times now and have it saved on my computer in PDF format. I have posted the court's holding several times now on this thread. Why don't you read that (It's right there on page one) instead of focusing entirely on what Kavanaugh wrote?
    « Last Edit: Tuesday, Jul 28, 2026 02:04 pm by Bigun »
    Scientists, like all discoverers of truth, have always asked, "What?” “How?” “Why?” “What if?” and “Why not?” Questioning science is science.

    Jaeger, John . Brilliant Creations : The Wonder of Nature and Life (p. 5). Kindle Edition.

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    Re: The Kavanaugh Opening Revisited: Did the Court Close Congress’ Door?
    « Reply #20 on: Tuesday, Jul 28, 2026 05:19 pm »
    Quote
    Instead, Congress should do exactly what Justice Kavanaugh’s concurrence implicitly invites it to do: legislate carefully, deliberately, and transparently.

    Such legislation would undoubtedly be challenged. The Supreme Court might well strike it down. But that would not make the effort futile.

    On the contrary, it would sharpen the constitutional questions, deepen the historical record, encourage additional scholarship, and require the court to confront arguments that may not have been fully developed in the present litigation. Constitutional law is not strengthened when difficult questions are insulated from further examination. It is strengthened when they are tested through the constitutional processes the framers created.


    John Eastman

    https://thefederalist.com/2026/07/01/the-supreme-court-doesnt-have-the-final-word-on-birthplace-citizenship/


    This once great republic, and all of us,  will be long dead before this approach bears any fruit IMO.
    « Last Edit: Tuesday, Jul 28, 2026 05:21 pm by Bigun »
    Scientists, like all discoverers of truth, have always asked, "What?” “How?” “Why?” “What if?” and “Why not?” Questioning science is science.

    Jaeger, John . Brilliant Creations : The Wonder of Nature and Life (p. 5). Kindle Edition.

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    Re: The Kavanaugh Opening Revisited: Did the Court Close Congress’ Door?
    « Reply #21 on: Wednesday, Jul 29, 2026 06:53 pm »
    John Eastman

    https://thefederalist.com/2026/07/01/the-supreme-court-doesnt-have-the-final-word-on-birthplace-citizenship/


    This once great republic, and all of us,  will be long dead before this approach bears any fruit IMO.
    I know this was a narrow question, but it presumes an historically inaccurate interpretation of the 14th.
    All we needed was a ruling consistent with the reading of the 14th Amendment that made it necessary to pass a law in 1924 that made Indians (feather, not dot) American Citizens. It had formerly been held that they were citizens of their respective tribal nations, and not "subject to the jurisdiction thereof", so they were not American Citizens prior to that even if born off the Reservation.
    If people whose ancestors predated Columbus and European settlement by thousands of years who lived within the gross borders of the United States were not Citizens without such statutory relief, then I have a great deal of trouble with interpretations of the 14th which would grant citizenship to the child of parents who were illegally in these United States, for simply being born within our borders.
    The logic is in conflict, and the current interpretation does not hold.
    How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
    Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

    Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

    C S Lewis

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    Re: The Kavanaugh Opening Revisited: Did the Court Close Congress’ Door?
    « Reply #22 on: Wednesday, Jul 29, 2026 08:35 pm »
    I HAVE read the opinion of the court several times now and have it saved on my computer in PDF format. I have posted the court's holding several times now on this thread. Why don't you read that (It's right there on page one) instead of focusing entirely on what Kavanaugh wrote?

    BECAUSE MY bleep ARTICLES ARE ABOUT WHAT HE SAID.

    BOTH OF THEM.

    So whatever it is that you wish to talk about.

    WRITE YOUR OWN ARTICLE AND QUIT bleep HIGHJACKING MY DISCUSSIONS ON THIS SUBJECT!

    Don’t reply.
    “Perhaps we’ll have some answers, at least, before the end. I always dreamed of dying well-informed.” ― Joe Abercrombie, The First Law Trilogy

    "The growth of knowledge depends entirely upon disagreement." — Karl Popper

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place." — Frederic Bastiat

    Offline Bigun

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    Re: The Kavanaugh Opening Revisited: Did the Court Close Congress’ Door?
    « Reply #23 on: Thursday, Jul 30, 2026 07:44 am »
    BECAUSE MY bleep ARTICLES ARE ABOUT WHAT HE SAID.

    BOTH OF THEM.

    So whatever it is that you wish to talk about.

    WRITE YOUR OWN ARTICLE AND QUIT bleep HIGHJACKING MY DISCUSSIONS ON THIS SUBJECT!

    Don’t reply.

    OK @Luis Gonzalez There will be no further comment from me on anything you write here or elsewhere.
    Scientists, like all discoverers of truth, have always asked, "What?” “How?” “Why?” “What if?” and “Why not?” Questioning science is science.

    Jaeger, John . Brilliant Creations : The Wonder of Nature and Life (p. 5). Kindle Edition.

    Offline Bigun

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    BECAUSE MY bleep ARTICLES ARE ABOUT WHAT HE SAID.

    BOTH OF THEM.

    So whatever it is that you wish to talk about.

    WRITE YOUR OWN ARTICLE AND QUIT bleep HIGHJACKING MY DISCUSSIONS ON THIS SUBJECT!

    Don’t reply.

    Can't leave without pointing out a few things first:

    1. IF the court had done as you believe,

       
    Quote
    In Trump v. Barbara, the holding was essentially:

    The President does not have authority, through an executive order alone, to deny birthright citizenship to children born in the United States to parents who are unlawfully or temporarily present, because the executive order conflicts with the Citizenship Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment and existing federal law (8 U.S.C. § 1401).

    https://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php?topic=586011.msg3336341#msg3336341

    you and I would not be having this conversation but it's simply not true.

    2. The Eastman article I linked to above also says something that you have, thus far, steadfastly failed to acknowledge and you would know this had you bothered to read it.

    Quote
    Those of us who believe the court misread the citizenship clause should not pretend the decision does not matter. It does.

    Five justices have now embraced the view that the 14th Amendment itself requires citizenship for virtually everyone born on American soil, regardless of the immigration status of the parents and regardless of whether they are present in our country without the nation’s consent. Unless and until the court changes course, that constitutional holding governs.

    https://thefederalist.com/2026/07/01/the-supreme-court-doesnt-have-the-final-word-on-birthplace-citizenship/

    3. YOU pinged me to this f'n thread!  @Luis Gonzalez
    « Last Edit: Today at 06:11 am by Bigun »
    Scientists, like all discoverers of truth, have always asked, "What?” “How?” “Why?” “What if?” and “Why not?” Questioning science is science.

    Jaeger, John . Brilliant Creations : The Wonder of Nature and Life (p. 5). Kindle Edition.

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    Quote
    IF the court had done as you believe,

    I felt bad about your post yesterday. I asked you to NOT reply on this thread any longer, but apparently you don't listen any better than you read.

    I DON'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT THE COURT'S FINDINGS. WE ALL KNOW THE FINDINGS!

    I WROTE ABOUT THE CONCURRENCE FROM THE MAN WE ALL HAILED AS A JURISPRUDIST PAR EXCELLENCE NOT SO LONG AGO!

    HAD YOU BOTHERED READING THE ARTICLES, YOU MAY HAVE FIGURED THAT OUT!

    This is what I wrote about.

    “Congress could, consistent with the Fourteenth Amendment, amend §1401(a) or otherwise enact new legislation establishing exceptions to birthright citizenship for children born to foreign citizens unlawfully or temporarily in the country. But Congress has not yet done so.”

    Now stop commenting on shit you don't read. it makes you look like a bleep dumbass
    “Perhaps we’ll have some answers, at least, before the end. I always dreamed of dying well-informed.” ― Joe Abercrombie, The First Law Trilogy

    "The growth of knowledge depends entirely upon disagreement." — Karl Popper

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place." — Frederic Bastiat

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    @Bigun

    Here you go. My notes on the articles.

    I wrote slower so that you can keep up.

    These are the OTHER people now discussing the exact same
    Subject as my articles.

    STOP COMMENTING ON TITLES AND READ SHIT.

    You may learn something.

    Sources discussing Kavanaugh’s “sentence” in Trump v. Barbara

    Legal/scholarly
    Right-leaning
    Skeptical of the outcome
    • Piece critical of Kavanaugh’s reasoning as built on “flawed historical narratives,” still concedes it’s “a road map for a right-wing Congress to complete Trump’s failed job.”

    Live development
    • Rep. John McGuire’s H.R. 9633, the “Birthright Citizenship Clarification Act of 2026,” introduced July 9 — cites Kavanaugh’s sentence directly. Not hypothetical; already filed.
    “Perhaps we’ll have some answers, at least, before the end. I always dreamed of dying well-informed.” ― Joe Abercrombie, The First Law Trilogy

    "The growth of knowledge depends entirely upon disagreement." — Karl Popper

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place." — Frederic Bastiat

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    Hey @Bigun

    DID YOU NOTICE THIS OR ARE YOU STILL NOG READING SHIT?

    Live development
    Rep. John McGuire’s H.R. 9633, the “Birthright Citizenship Clarification Act of 2026,” introduced July 9 — cites Kavanaugh’s sentence directly. Not hypothetical; already filed.


    HOLY SHIT!!!!

    KAVANAUGH’S CONCURRENCE IN ACTION!!!!
    “Perhaps we’ll have some answers, at least, before the end. I always dreamed of dying well-informed.” ― Joe Abercrombie, The First Law Trilogy

    "The growth of knowledge depends entirely upon disagreement." — Karl Popper

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place." — Frederic Bastiat

    Offline Bigun

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    @Bigun

    Here you go. My notes on the articles.

    I wrote slower so that you can keep up.

    These are the OTHER people now discussing the exact same
    Subject as my articles.

    STOP COMMENTING ON TITLES AND READ SHIT.

    You may learn something.

    Sources discussing Kavanaugh’s “sentence” in Trump v. Barbara

    Legal/scholarly
    Right-leaning
    Skeptical of the outcome
    • Piece critical of Kavanaugh’s reasoning as built on “flawed historical narratives,” still concedes it’s “a road map for a right-wing Congress to complete Trump’s failed job.”

    Live development
    • Rep. John McGuire’s H.R. 9633, the “Birthright Citizenship Clarification Act of 2026,” introduced July 9 — cites Kavanaugh’s sentence directly. Not hypothetical; already filed.

    I know what you were writing about and have since DAY ONE but IMHO you have tried exceedingly hard to convince people of a lie and I could not let that stand.

       
    Quote
    In Trump v. Barbara, the holding was essentially:

    The President does not have authority, through an executive order alone, to deny birthright citizenship to children born in the United States to parents who are unlawfully or temporarily present, because the executive order conflicts with the Citizenship Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment and existing federal law (8 U.S.C. § 1401).

    THAT is a lie!
    Scientists, like all discoverers of truth, have always asked, "What?” “How?” “Why?” “What if?” and “Why not?” Questioning science is science.

    Jaeger, John . Brilliant Creations : The Wonder of Nature and Life (p. 5). Kindle Edition.

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    If anyone is actually reading... this thread was unfortunately destroyed.

    The Kavanaugh Concurrence, what I labeled the Opening, is in Congress now.

    The significance of the concurrence became clearer shortly after the decision.

    His concurrence did not create a new law. It did not guarantee that Congress could prevail. It did something narrower but important: it identified the institution that would have to act if the issue were revisited.

    Kavanaugh wrote that **“Congress could — consistent with the Fourteenth Amendment — amend §1401(a) or otherwise enact new legislation establishing exceptions to birthright citizenship.”**

    The question was no longer whether a President could act alone.

    The question became whether Congress would attempt the legislative path Kavanaugh described.

    H.R. 9633, the “Birthright Citizenship Clarification Act of 2026,” appears to be that attempt. The bill was introduced in the House and referred to the Judiciary Committee. Its stated purpose is to amend Section 301 of the Immigration and Nationality Act, the statutory provision governing citizenship at birth.

    That does not mean the bill will survive constitutional review.

    It does not mean Kavanaugh’s interpretation will become the law of the land.

    It means the debate has moved from theory to process.

    The President attempted to act through executive authority.

    The Supreme Court rejected that route.

    Congress has now stepped into the constitutional arena Kavanaugh identified.

    The next question belongs where Kavanaugh said it would belong: in the legislative process, followed by judicial review.
    “Perhaps we’ll have some answers, at least, before the end. I always dreamed of dying well-informed.” ― Joe Abercrombie, The First Law Trilogy

    "The growth of knowledge depends entirely upon disagreement." — Karl Popper

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place." — Frederic Bastiat

    Offline Bigun

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    Hey @Bigun

    DID YOU NOTICE THIS OR ARE YOU STILL NOG READING SHIT?

    Live development
    Rep. John McGuire’s H.R. 9633, the “Birthright Citizenship Clarification Act of 2026,” introduced July 9 — cites Kavanaugh’s sentence directly. Not hypothetical; already filed.


    HOLY SHIT!!!!

    KAVANAUGH’S CONCURRENCE IN ACTION!!!!

    Yeah! @Luis Gonzalez  I noticed! And as I have repeatedly said, I wish you and Rep. McGuire all the luck in the world although I will never live to see the result of any success the effort may have.
    Scientists, like all discoverers of truth, have always asked, "What?” “How?” “Why?” “What if?” and “Why not?” Questioning science is science.

    Jaeger, John . Brilliant Creations : The Wonder of Nature and Life (p. 5). Kindle Edition.

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    There you have it... the man who thinks he knows Constitutional law better than Brett Kavanaugh
    “Perhaps we’ll have some answers, at least, before the end. I always dreamed of dying well-informed.” ― Joe Abercrombie, The First Law Trilogy

    "The growth of knowledge depends entirely upon disagreement." — Karl Popper

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place." — Frederic Bastiat

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    Yeah! @Luis Gonzalez  I noticed! And as I have repeatedly said, I wish you and Rep. McGuire all the luck in the world although I will never live to see the result of any success the effort may have.

    Take your argument up with Brett Kavanaugh @Bigun
    “Perhaps we’ll have some answers, at least, before the end. I always dreamed of dying well-informed.” ― Joe Abercrombie, The First Law Trilogy

    "The growth of knowledge depends entirely upon disagreement." — Karl Popper

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place." — Frederic Bastiat

    Offline Bigun

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    There you have it... the man who thinks he knows Constitutional law better than Brett Kavanaugh

    "Five justices have now embraced the view that the 14th Amendment itself requires citizenship for virtually everyone born on American soil, regardless of the immigration status of the parents and regardless of whether they are present in our country without the nation’s consent. Unless and until the court changes course, that constitutional holding governs."

    John Eastman

    A man that knows a thing or two about Constitutional law!
    Scientists, like all discoverers of truth, have always asked, "What?” “How?” “Why?” “What if?” and “Why not?” Questioning science is science.

    Jaeger, John . Brilliant Creations : The Wonder of Nature and Life (p. 5). Kindle Edition.

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    I temporarily locked this tread because the fighting was getting out of hand!  I am reopening it, so continue, no personal attacks please!
    I don’t owe tolerance to people who disagree with my existence.
    I will NOT comply.
     
    Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

    Offline Bigun

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    Take your argument up with Brett Kavanaugh @Bigun

    I have never once questioned a single thing Kavanaugh says @Luis Gonzalez what I have argued against is your patently false assertion that ALL the court did was tell the president he lacked authority to do what he did.

    If you want to get angry with me for that go ahead and be angry.
    Scientists, like all discoverers of truth, have always asked, "What?” “How?” “Why?” “What if?” and “Why not?” Questioning science is science.

    Jaeger, John . Brilliant Creations : The Wonder of Nature and Life (p. 5). Kindle Edition.

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    I have never once questioned a single thing Kavanaugh says @Luis Gonzalez what I have argued against is your patently false assertion that ALL the court did was tell the president he lacked authority to do what he did.

    If you want to get angry with me for that go ahead and be angry.


    Please do not direct future replies to me. I am not interested in continuing a discussion where the actual legal distinction being debated is repeatedly ignored.

    The issue has never been whether the Court’s holding exists. Everyone understands the holding.

    The issue is what the decision did not say.

    Justice Kavanaugh’s concurrence specifically identified a separate question involving congressional legislation:

    “Congress could, consistent with the Fourteenth Amendment, amend §1401(a) or otherwise enact new legislation establishing exceptions to birthright citizenship…”

    That sentence is not the holding. It does not guarantee that Congress would prevail. It does not mean any future legislation would survive judicial review.

    But it is also not meaningless, as you’re repeatedly suggesting.

    What is interesting is that the critics of Kavanaugh’s concurrence did not dismiss the sentence as irrelevant. They criticized the reasoning and argued that any congressional effort would ultimately fail constitutional review.

    In other words, they argued about where Kavanaugh’s reasoning leads. They did not argue that the road he identified does not exist.

    If the argument is that Kavanaugh was wrong, then address Kavanaugh’s reasoning. Explain why that sentence does not mean what it plainly says.

    Repeating the holding does not answer a point that exists outside the holding.

    The Court decided what the President could not do.

    Kavanaugh addressed what Congress might attempt.

    Those are separate constitutional questions.

    The disagreement is not about what the Court decided.

    The disagreement is about what remains unresolved after the decision.
    “Perhaps we’ll have some answers, at least, before the end. I always dreamed of dying well-informed.” ― Joe Abercrombie, The First Law Trilogy

    "The growth of knowledge depends entirely upon disagreement." — Karl Popper

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place." — Frederic Bastiat

    Offline Hoodat

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    There is nothing in our Constitution that prevents Congress from stripping away citizenship from those born here to parents who have entered the country illegally and uninvited.  It's too bad that we do not have a political party in this country today who is interested in fixing the problem.  Instead, we are plagued with two political parties bent on enticing it.

    The problem isn't about granting citizenship to the newborn.  That is not a big deal.  The problem is allowing the illegal parents to continue living here illegally just because their newborn is a citizen.  It is a problem made even worse by giving free shit to those illegal parents with our hard-earned tax dollars.

    Both parties do this.  Both parties suck.
    If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

    "The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

    Jim Jones was a socialist Democrat.

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    There is nothing in our Constitution that prevents Congress from stripping away citizenship from those born here to parents who have entered the country illegally and uninvited.  It's too bad that we do not have a political party in this country today who is interested in fixing the problem.  Instead, we are plagued with two political parties bent on enticing it.

    The problem isn't about granting citizenship to the newborn.  That is not a big deal.  The problem is allowing the illegal parents to continue living here illegally just because their newborn is a citizen.  It is a problem made even worse by giving free shit to those illegal parents with our hard-earned tax dollars.

    Both parties do this.  Both parties suck.

    Word.
    I don’t owe tolerance to people who disagree with my existence.
    I will NOT comply.
     
    Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

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    There is nothing in our Constitution that prevents Congress from stripping away citizenship from those born here to parents who have entered the country illegally and uninvited.  It's too bad that we do not have a political party in this country today who is interested in fixing the problem.  Instead, we are plagued with two political parties bent on enticing it.

    The problem isn't about granting citizenship to the newborn.  That is not a big deal.  The problem is allowing the illegal parents to continue living here illegally just because their newborn is a citizen.  It is a problem made even worse by giving free shit to those illegal parents with our hard-earned tax dollars.

    Both parties do this.  Both parties suck.

    The topic is more valuable as a political talking point than a danger as a national security issue.
    “Perhaps we’ll have some answers, at least, before the end. I always dreamed of dying well-informed.” ― Joe Abercrombie, The First Law Trilogy

    "The growth of knowledge depends entirely upon disagreement." — Karl Popper

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place." — Frederic Bastiat

    Offline Hoodat

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    The topic is more valuable as a political talking point than a danger as a national security issue.

    A political talking point that ceases to be a political talking point the moment it is fixed.
    If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

    "The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

    Jim Jones was a socialist Democrat.

    Offline Free Vulcan

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    There is nothing in our Constitution that prevents Congress from stripping away citizenship from those born here to parents who have entered the country illegally and uninvited.  It's too bad that we do not have a political party in this country today who is interested in fixing the problem.  Instead, we are plagued with two political parties bent on enticing it.

    The problem isn't about granting citizenship to the newborn.  That is not a big deal.  The problem is allowing the illegal parents to continue living here illegally just because their newborn is a citizen.  It is a problem made even worse by giving free shit to those illegal parents with our hard-earned tax dollars.

    Both parties do this.  Both parties suck.

    That's it right there. Another scenario is a nation like China playing the long game and creating millions of US citizens via birth tourism for later use.

    Sorry but I don't trust the court. I realize what the boilerplate is, but there was IMO implication that things couldn't be changed, and the Kavanaugh Option would not be honored if it became legislation.

    My argument is the analogy of the fruit of the poisonous tree. You cannot have legality from illegality. I wouldn't like it but could see citizenship grant to children of those with those of legal status, I cannot with those violating the law and somehow receiving the rewards that @Hoodat outlined above.

    The President, as even the SCOTUS itself has affirmed, has near plenary power over immigration. They should have split that baby, pun intended, to give the Prez power to deny citizenship to children of illegals and birth tourism. The birth tourism thing really gets me because there is no 'subject to the jurisdiction thereof' whatsoever. They've implicitly legalized illegality and anarchy, and going forward compromised national security.

    That runs contrary to the very idea and definition of what law is and supposed to be. What a dumbass fail of jurisprudence.
    The Republic is lost.

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    A political talking point that ceases to be a political talking point the moment it is fixed.

    Yes. As is the case with most problems we face as a nation.
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    That's it right there. Another scenario is a nation like China playing the long game and creating millions of US citizens via birth tourism for later use.

    Sorry but I don't trust the court. I realize what the boilerplate is, but there was IMO implication that things couldn't be changed, and the Kavanaugh Option would not be honored if it became legislation.

    My argument is the analogy of the fruit of the poisonous tree. You cannot have legality from illegality. I wouldn't like it but could see citizenship grant to children of those with those of legal status, I cannot with those violating the law and somehow receiving the rewards that @Hoodat outlined above.

    The President, as even the SCOTUS itself has affirmed, has near plenary power over immigration. They should have split that baby, pun intended, to give the Prez power to deny citizenship to children of illegals and birth tourism. The birth tourism thing really gets me because there is no 'subject to the jurisdiction thereof' whatsoever. They've implicitly legalized illegality and anarchy, and going forward compromised national security.

    That runs contrary to the very idea and definition of what law is and supposed to be. What a dumbass fail of jurisprudence.

    Exactly. The Executive Order was never just about the immediate policy outcome. It was a vehicle designed to force the Court to confront the underlying constitutional question. Instead, the Court narrowed the issue and avoided the larger question of whether the current interpretation of the Citizenship Clause can accommodate modern realities like birth tourism and deliberate exploitation of immigration loopholes.

    The irony is that the Court’s procedural answer may have postponed the constitutional conflict rather than resolved it. The Kavanaugh framework was important because it acknowledged there could be a lawful path for Congress and the executive branch to address the issue. The concern is whether that path will actually remain open once legislation reaches the courts.

    The deeper argument is not about denying citizenship to innocent children. It is about whether an unlawful act can become the foundation for a permanent legal benefit. If the law is deliberately violated as a means to secure citizenship, the system creates an incentive structure that rewards the very conduct immigration law is supposed to prevent.

    That is where the “fruit of the poisonous tree” analogy comes in. A government that cannot enforce the boundaries of citizenship risks turning citizenship from a legal status into a loophole. Birth tourism exposes the problem because it is not an accident or humanitarian circumstance. It is a calculated use of American law by people who are not otherwise entitled to enter or remain here.

    The Court had an opportunity to draw a principled line. Instead, it answered the procedural question and left the constitutional one waiting. The issue did not disappear. It simply moved to the next battlefield: Congress, the executive branch, and eventually the Court again.
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    The irony is that the Court’s procedural answer may have postponed the constitutional conflict rather than resolved it.

    That reminds me of Roe v. Wade of the early 1970's.  The Court sought to remove abortion from politics, and it had exactly the opposite effect.  SCOTUS isn't a fix-all, and never will be!
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    Offline Hoodat

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    This is what I wrote about.

    “Congress could, consistent with the Fourteenth Amendment, amend §1401(a) or otherwise enact new legislation establishing exceptions to birthright citizenship for children born to foreign citizens unlawfully or temporarily in the country. But Congress has not yet done so.”

    Even better, both Congress and the Executive Branch could stop giving free shit to people who are in this country illegally.  On top of that, the Executive Branch could begin prosecuting those who have entered the country illegally.  Congress already did its job on that measure.
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    Offline Hoodat

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    That reminds me of Roe v. Wade of the early 1970's.  The Court sought to remove abortion from politics, and it had exactly the opposite effect.  SCOTUS isn't a fix-all, and never will be!

    It is not the job of SCOTUS to bow to public opinion and fix what the other two branches did.

    Just like with ObamaCare.
    If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

    "The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

    Jim Jones was a socialist Democrat.

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    It is not the job of SCOTUS to bow to public opinion and fix what the other two branches did.

    Just like with ObamaCare.

    That is correct, and SCOTUS will keep teaching that concept as long as it takes, while making its own mistakes along the way....
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    Offline Bigun

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    It is not the job of SCOTUS to bow to public opinion and fix what the other two branches did.

    Just like with ObamaCare.

    But they INSIST on doing that anyway.

    Most recently, they could have simply said that the president does not have any authority to change the law by executive order - which was the exact question presented - and there would have been ZERO controversy but instead they once again colored WAY outside the lines.


    Scientists, like all discoverers of truth, have always asked, "What?” “How?” “Why?” “What if?” and “Why not?” Questioning science is science.

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    But they INSIST on doing that anyway.

    Most recently, they could have simply said that the president does not have any authority to change the law by executive order - which was the exact question presented - and there would have been ZERO controversy but instead they once again colored WAY outside the lines.


    Mistakes are bound to happen along the way.  They usually get fixed in the fullness of time, as long as we can keep abject dingbats like Jackson from becoming too numerous.  We need the Senate to do a  better job of vetting before Confirming!
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