Author Topic: Live Thread: War With Iran Continues #5  (Read 27749 times)

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Offline BobfromWB

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Re: Live Thread: War With Iran Continues #5
« Reply #1400 on: Today at 11:18 am »
The overwhelming majority of Iranians are muslims.  You aren't going to get them to overthrow their government by saying all muslims should be killed.  Just sayin'.

They were never given a choice. Many muslims convert once they are given a choice. 
Democrats would rather rule over ashes than govern a functioning Republic

Offline BobfromWB

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Re: Live Thread: War With Iran Continues #5
« Reply #1401 on: Today at 11:21 am »

https://twitter.com/FoxNews/status/2068391585872502804

That's enough for the insurance companies to keep their clients away. So its closed. Unless the US provides cover and escorts for the mos of the ships.
Democrats would rather rule over ashes than govern a functioning Republic

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Re: Live Thread: War With Iran Continues #5
« Reply #1402 on: Today at 11:21 am »

Contrasting with the official numbers, new anonymous online and academic surveys suggest far fewer Iranians currently self-identify as Muslim in practice or belief; a large 2020–2025 study reported only about 40% identified as Muslim, with many Iranians identifying as nonreligious, spiritual, or affiliating with pre-Islamic traditions—findings emphasized in academic coverage such as The Conversation [4]. Scholars and commentators point to generational change, urbanization and political backlash against clerical rule as drivers of private disaffiliation, arguing that official affiliation statistics often reflect legal identity and inherited status rather than lived belief [4][7].

https://factually.co/fact-checks/society/are-most-iranians-muslim-932dd4

Good luck getting 60% of the people to kill the other 40%.  Personally, I don't think that is a winnable strategy.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

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Jim Jones was a socialist Democrat.

Online 240B

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Re: Live Thread: War With Iran Continues #5
« Reply #1403 on: Today at 11:30 am »
They tried but failed.

We cannot afford to fail.
I am a Jew
I cannot afford to fail. Because that is how it is
Sometimes, the enemy of my enemy, is also my enemy.
Islam sanitizes oppression. Islam rebrands cruelty as culture, and expects applause from Liberal fools for their Islamic progressivism.
You cannot "COEXIST" with people who want to kill you.
If they kill their own with no conscience, there is nothing to stop them from killing you.
Rational fear and anger at vicious murderous Islamic terrorists is the same as irrational antisemitism, according to the Leftists

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Re: Live Thread: War With Iran Continues #5
« Reply #1404 on: Today at 12:37 pm »
I am a Jew
I cannot afford to fail. Because that is how it is
:amen:
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Democrat Party...the Party of Infanticide

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Re: Live Thread: War With Iran Continues #5
« Reply #1407 on: Today at 02:13 pm »
Trump threatens to charge US tolls in Hormuz if final deal not reached in 60 days, says Iran will charge ‘NO TOLLS’

Saturday, June 20, 2026
Trump threatens to charge US tolls in Hormuz if final deal not reached in 60 days, says Iran will charge ‘NO TOLLS’
By AP Today, 10:37 pm

2

US President Donald Trump threatens to impose US tolls in the Strait of Hormuz if a final deal with Iran isn’t reached in 60 days.

Trump, spending the weekend at Camp David, underscores that the initial agreement to end the war with Iran calls for toll-free travel through the vital waterway for 60 days.

He adds: “there will be NO TOLLS after the 60 day period has expired, unless they are imposed by and for the United States of America, should the deal not be completed.”

Trump says the money would be for “services rendered as the Guardian Angel to the countries of the Middle East for purposes of both past, present, and future reimbursement of costs.”

The US president has faced a lot of blowback domestically for how the memorandum of understanding with Iran addresses the issue of tolls in the Strait of Hormuz. The deal only secures toll-free passage for 60 days and doesn’t preclude future fees.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/trump-threatens-to-charge-us-tolls-in-hormuz-if-final-deal-not-reached-in-60-days-says-iran-will-charge-no-tolls/
Democrat Party...the Party of Infanticide

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-Matthew 6:34


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Re: Live Thread: War With Iran Continues #5
« Reply #1408 on: Today at 02:42 pm »
What happens in Iran over the next several months will tell you where the conflict between Christianity and Islam is heading over the next century or more. Many millions are watching and you had better hope it goes our way!
« Last Edit: Today at 02:55 pm by Bigun »
Scientists, like all discoverers of truth, have always asked, "What?” “How?” “Why?” “What if?” and “Why not?” Questioning science is science.

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Offline Idiot

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Re: Live Thread: War With Iran Continues #5
« Reply #1409 on: Today at 03:30 pm »
I am a Jew
I cannot afford to fail. Because that is how it is
My Savior is a Jew.  :laugh:

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Re: Live Thread: War With Iran Continues #5
« Reply #1410 on: Today at 03:40 pm »
The same way you eat an elephant! One bite at a time.

I consider myself very well versed on the Crusades thank you. And yes, we do have different views on the matter. That is very clear.



I don’t think “kill all the Mullahs” holds up as a serious solution.

First, it conflates a religious class with a political regime. A mullah is a Shi’a cleric. Some are part of Iran’s ruling structure, but many are not involved in government at all. So the idea already runs into the problem of collective guilt rather than targeting actual decision-makers.

Second, even inside Iran’s system, power isn’t held only by clerics. The state includes the military, the Revolutionary Guard, intelligence services, bureaucracies, and elected officials. Removing one category of people doesn’t dismantle the system.

Third, practically speaking, a plan like that would require a massive ground occupation to even attempt anything resembling it. It’s not a targeted operation; it’s a large-scale campaign against a social and religious class spread across an entire country.

Fourth, it would almost certainly backfire strategically. Historically, removing leadership figures doesn’t end a system, it often produces harder, more radical successors and increases instability.

Fifth, internationally, it crosses into the territory of religious persecution. Even states hostile to Iran’s government would struggle to justify a policy framed around eliminating an entire religious group.

And finally, it doesn’t define an end state. What does success look like… no clerics at all, or just some of them? Without a clear objective, it’s not really a strategy. It’s just escalation language.

You can absolutely argue about Trump, Iran policy, or military options. But “kill all the Mullahs” isn’t a workable strategy. It’s a slogan that collapses under its own assumptions.
"The growth of knowledge depends entirely upon disagreement." — Karl Popper

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Online Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Live Thread: War With Iran Continues #5
« Reply #1411 on: Today at 03:43 pm »
And if the next Presidents in succession are Kamala, Newson, AOC & Platner?

Thats on us, and proves me right.
« Last Edit: Today at 03:44 pm by Luis Gonzalez »
"The growth of knowledge depends entirely upon disagreement." — Karl Popper

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Re: Live Thread: War With Iran Continues #5
« Reply #1413 on: Today at 03:45 pm »
Neither side can kill their way out of this.

 888high58888
"The growth of knowledge depends entirely upon disagreement." — Karl Popper

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Online Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Live Thread: War With Iran Continues #5
« Reply #1414 on: Today at 03:46 pm »
We don't need to exterminate all of them. Just enough of them to convince them they cannot win and Allah has failed them.

I understand the intent behind what you’re saying, but it still doesn’t hold up as a workable or logical strategy.

First, the idea of “just enough of them to convince them” assumes a level of control over human psychology and political behavior that doesn’t exist in real-world conflict. Violence doesn’t reliably produce submission. In many cases, it produces the opposite: hardening resistance, retaliation, and long-term escalation.

Second, this still runs into the same core issue: you’re talking about targeting people based on their identity as religious clerics rather than their individual actions or specific roles in government or military decision-making. That crosses into collective punishment and religious targeting, which is both ethically and legally indefensible under modern rules of war.

Third, the assumption that this would demonstrate “Allah has failed them” misunderstands how belief systems work under pressure. History shows that when religious or ideological groups are attacked, it rarely produces loss of faith. More often, it produces martyr narratives, deeper conviction, and recruitment gains. External force does not typically “disprove” belief—it usually reinforces it for those already committed.

Fourth, even if you set morality aside and look purely at outcomes, the strategy still doesn’t solve the underlying problem. Iran’s governance structure, military command, intelligence services, and political institutions don’t disappear because a subset of clerics is intimidated or removed. You’re still left with a functioning state apparatus and likely a more radicalized environment.

Fifth, there’s no measurable stopping point. “Just enough” is not a strategy variable—it’s an open-ended escalation. How is “enough” defined, and who decides when that threshold is reached?

If the goal is to change Iran’s behavior or reduce conflict, then the debate has to stay in the realm of achievable political and military objectives. Once it moves into “break their belief system through selective killing,” it stops being strategy and becomes something that is neither controllable nor likely to produce the outcome you’re describing.

You can argue hard against the Iranian regime without turning the discussion into a theory of coercion through religious intimidation. Those are very different things.
"The growth of knowledge depends entirely upon disagreement." — Karl Popper

“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place." — Frederic Bastiat

“You can vote Socialism in, but you’re gonna have to shoot your way out of it.” — Me

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Online 240B

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Re: Live Thread: War With Iran Continues #5
« Reply #1415 on: Today at 03:51 pm »
I AMA JEW!

tee shirts are off the charts


Sometimes, the enemy of my enemy, is also my enemy.
Islam sanitizes oppression. Islam rebrands cruelty as culture, and expects applause from Liberal fools for their Islamic progressivism.
You cannot "COEXIST" with people who want to kill you.
If they kill their own with no conscience, there is nothing to stop them from killing you.
Rational fear and anger at vicious murderous Islamic terrorists is the same as irrational antisemitism, according to the Leftists

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Re: Live Thread: War With Iran Continues #5
« Reply #1416 on: Today at 03:59 pm »
That's horrific!!!

That 250,000,000 figure isn’t just unverified—it’s not even remotely plausible when you look at basic historical scale.

For most of the last 1400 years, total world population was nowhere near today’s levels. In 500 AD the entire planet had roughly 200–300 million people total. In 1000 AD maybe 250–300 million. Even by 1500 AD you’re still only around ~450 million globally. So the idea that a single broad religious category accounts for 250 million deaths over that span doesn’t survive basic population math.

It also assumes a unified actor called “Muslims” operating consistently across 14 centuries, which isn’t how history works. You’re talking about dozens of empires, hundreds of states, and constant wars between Muslim and Muslim powers as often as anything else.

And importantly, there is no historical dataset, war archive, or academic estimate that even approaches that number. It doesn’t come from scholarship—it comes from internet chain claims that stack speculation on top of speculation until the number becomes meaningless.

So the issue isn’t just that it’s unproven. It’s that it fails every basic check: population reality, historical structure, and methodology.
"The growth of knowledge depends entirely upon disagreement." — Karl Popper

“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place." — Frederic Bastiat

“You can vote Socialism in, but you’re gonna have to shoot your way out of it.” — Me

“Better a grave full of memories than one full of dreams.” — Me.

Online 240B

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Re: Live Thread: War With Iran Continues #5
« Reply #1417 on: Today at 04:05 pm »
I do not care
I do not care
I do not care

Islam is a Satanic belief that is a curse on the entire world.
Islam will kill itself. When your entire 'belief' is about killing people. Go ahead home Muhammed
Sometimes, the enemy of my enemy, is also my enemy.
Islam sanitizes oppression. Islam rebrands cruelty as culture, and expects applause from Liberal fools for their Islamic progressivism.
You cannot "COEXIST" with people who want to kill you.
If they kill their own with no conscience, there is nothing to stop them from killing you.
Rational fear and anger at vicious murderous Islamic terrorists is the same as irrational antisemitism, according to the Leftists

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Re: Live Thread: War With Iran Continues #5
« Reply #1418 on: Today at 04:24 pm »
That 250,000,000 figure isn’t just unverified—it’s not even remotely plausible when you look at basic historical scale.

For most of the last 1400 years, total world population was nowhere near today’s levels. In 500 AD the entire planet had roughly 200–300 million people total. In 1000 AD maybe 250–300 million. Even by 1500 AD you’re still only around ~450 million globally. So the idea that a single broad religious category accounts for 250 million deaths over that span doesn’t survive basic population math.

It also assumes a unified actor called “Muslims” operating consistently across 14 centuries, which isn’t how history works. You’re talking about dozens of empires, hundreds of states, and constant wars between Muslim and Muslim powers as often as anything else.

And importantly, there is no historical dataset, war archive, or academic estimate that even approaches that number. It doesn’t come from scholarship—it comes from internet chain claims that stack speculation on top of speculation until the number becomes meaningless.

So the issue isn’t just that it’s unproven. It’s that it fails every basic check: population reality, historical structure, and methodology.

 Dr. Bill Warner’s estimates that 200–300 million lives have been lost in the Islamic expansion over ~1,400 years, including conquests, jihads, slave trades, and related conflicts.

A Self-Study Course on Political Islam-Level 1

A Self-Study Course on Political Islam-Level 2

A Self-Study Course on Political Islam-Level 3

Scientists, like all discoverers of truth, have always asked, "What?” “How?” “Why?” “What if?” and “Why not?” Questioning science is science.

Jaeger, John . Brilliant Creations : The Wonder of Nature and Life (p. 5). Kindle Edition.

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Re: Live Thread: War With Iran Continues #5
« Reply #1419 on: Today at 04:44 pm »
Dr. Bill Warner’s estimates that 200–300 million lives have been lost in the Islamic expansion over ~1,400 years, including conquests, jihads, slave trades, and related conflicts.

A Self-Study Course on Political Islam-Level 1

A Self-Study Course on Political Islam-Level 2

A Self-Study Course on Political Islam-Level 3


My problem with Warner’s methodology isn’t that he criticizes Islamic history. My problem is that his framework can be applied to any major civilization and produce absurd numbers.

If I used the same method on Christianity, I could lump together 2,000 years of wars, conquests, colonialism, religious conflicts, and state violence and claim Christianity killed hundreds of millions of people.

Most historians would immediately object because they understand that England, Spain, France, Germany, Russia, Byzantium, and the United States are not a single actor simply because most of their populations were Christian.

Yet that’s essentially what Warner does with Islam. He treats fourteen centuries of different empires, dynasties, states, and peoples as one continuous entity and then aggregates the body count.

If your methodology can prove that both Christianity and Islam killed “hundreds of millions,” the methodology may be the problem
"The growth of knowledge depends entirely upon disagreement." — Karl Popper

“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place." — Frederic Bastiat

“You can vote Socialism in, but you’re gonna have to shoot your way out of it.” — Me

“Better a grave full of memories than one full of dreams.” — Me.

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Re: Live Thread: War With Iran Continues #5
« Reply #1420 on: Today at 04:52 pm »
Do you people know why My Lai was justified?
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

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Re: Live Thread: War With Iran Continues #5
« Reply #1421 on: Today at 04:55 pm »
My problem with Warner’s methodology isn’t that he criticizes Islamic history. My problem is that his framework can be applied to any major civilization and produce absurd numbers.

If I used the same method on Christianity, I could lump together 2,000 years of wars, conquests, colonialism, religious conflicts, and state violence and claim Christianity killed hundreds of millions of people.

Most historians would immediately object because they understand that England, Spain, France, Germany, Russia, Byzantium, and the United States are not a single actor simply because most of their populations were Christian.

Yet that’s essentially what Warner does with Islam. He treats fourteen centuries of different empires, dynasties, states, and peoples as one continuous entity and then aggregates the body count.

If your methodology can prove that both Christianity and Islam killed “hundreds of millions,” the methodology may be the problem

Find me someone more knowledgeable on the subject of Political Islam than Bill Warner and I'm all ears.
Scientists, like all discoverers of truth, have always asked, "What?” “How?” “Why?” “What if?” and “Why not?” Questioning science is science.

Jaeger, John . Brilliant Creations : The Wonder of Nature and Life (p. 5). Kindle Edition.