Live Thread: War With Iran Continues #5

[mystery-ak]

 Vance to brief the press following Iran MOU signing
by Julia Manchester - 06/18/26 9:17 AM ET

Vice President Vance will brief reporters in the White House briefing room on Thursday following the signing of the memorandum of understanding (MOU) between the U.S. and Iran.

The briefing will mark Vance’s second time at the briefing podium since press secretary Karoline Leavitt went on maternity leave earlier this year.

The vice president will be pressed on the preliminary agreement, which he has spent most of the week touting in a media tour while promoting his new memoir “Communion: Finding My Way Back to Faith.”

Vance was initially set to attend a formal signing ceremony in Lucerne, Switzerland, but President Trump and Iranian President Masoud Pezeshkian signed the MOU remotely on Wednesday.

The vice president is still slated to attend formal talks in Switzerland, The Wall Street Journal reported.

The administration has propped Vance up as the face of the negotiations since April, when he led the U.S. delegation in talks with Iranian officials in Islamabad.

Trump joked Wednesday at the Group of Seven summit he will blame Vance if the deal falls through.

“If it works out, I’m going to take the credit. If it doesn’t work out, I’m blaming JD. You better be careful, JD. He’s going to turn his plane around and get the hell out of here,” he joked.

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5929835-vance-briefs-reporters-mou-iran/

[massadvj]

This deal is a win for Iran and a loss for the USA. It would have been better to apply long-term pressure to the regime with sanctions and limited military action. Now Iran has international diplomatic recognition, the ability to sell its oil freely in international markets, control of the Strait of Hormuz, and the money to rehabilitate its jihad against the infidels. Iran's civilian and economic infrastructure is largely intact, so why does Iran need $300 billion to "rebuild?" Obviously, it wants to rebuild its military capability.

As I said from the beginning, we should never have undertaken this war to begin with. As I have observed American politics since the 1960s, I have seen that, from time to time, our leaders and the people get "war fever." They overestimate the advantages of going to war, and underestimate the disadvantages. Vietnam. Iraq. Afghanistan. Ukraine. Both parties fall victim to it, although the Democrats only seem to get war fever over Democrat wars.

At the beginning of this war, I saw that same war fever brewing up again, some of it from people right here at TBR. I recognize this syndrome because I myself had a bad case of it before GWB engaged in the Iraq War. But after that fiasco, I vowed I would never succumb to it again. The Iraq War gave me war fever immunity.

Trump led me to believe he understood all of this when he was running for president in 2024. His first term record seemed to confirm it. And yet, here we are. Based on his body language and bearing, I think he knows he was hoodwinked. This deal was the only reasonable off-ramp that the Iranians would agree to, so he took it.

For those of you who think this military action was a noble undertaking, but that Trump did not have the stomach to see it through, I have a few questions:

1. Do we have the military capability to control the Strait of Hormuz, and to capture Kharg Island, both actions being necessary for us to have "won" this war?
2. If we do have the capability, do Trump and the GOP have the strength to withstand the political blowback?
3. If the answer to #1 is yes, and the answer to #2 is no, how should Trump have proceeded based on the stalemate we were in?

Yes this is a terrible deal and a TACO. But I, for one, will be celebrating the fact that we will (temporarily) have peace and not war. And I will pray that, finally, our leadership will learn that we cannot enter into a war without the full commitment to obliterate the enemy at  all costs; and that when such time occurs, it will be based on a clear provocation that threatens our existence. Neither of these conditions were present when we undertook this military adventure.

[Timber Rattler]

http://twitter.com/JewishWarrior13/status/2067284320662790313

[mystery-ak]

https://twitter.com/RandPaul/status/2067312066856407369

[Camp]

Rand Paul is correct.

Trump used as little war as he could and the Arab alliance got very squishy after getting hit.

Let us see how it goes and be ever vigilant and distrustful of the IRGC.

My glass is always half full.

 

[mystery-ak]

[massadvj]

https://twitter.com/RandPaul/status/2067312066856407369

As usual, Rand Paul is right.

I tend to avoid cults, but if I was to join one, I'd join the cult of Ron Paul. Time has been very kind to his legacy. Ron Paul was right about everything.

[mystery-ak]

READ IT: The full text of the US-Iran Memorandum of Understanding

The 60-day negotiation period requires Tehran to demonstrate it has abandoned support for terrorist organizations

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/read-it-full-text-us-iran-memorandum-understanding

[DCPatriot]

Well, at least you ladies might acknowledge the Iranian Navy and Air Force and Weapons Systems are extinct.

That we can fly over Tehran at will, same as an Amazon delivery drone.


So there's that...   

[mystery-ak]

Senators react to Trump’s Iran peace deal: ‘What an embarrassment’

Republican and Democrat senators react to President Donald Trump’s memorandum of understanding (MOU), with lawmakers from both parties criticizing the agreement and raising concerns about its potential impact.

Sen. Richard Blumenthal, D-Conn.

    My initial reaction is that this blunder means that there may be changes in the administration. The MOU has so many holes and gaps, it puts Iran in a much stronger position than before this war, and what strikes me is not only the hundreds of billions of dollars that are going to go to Iran that it can use to fund its proxies or its rebuilding of its military, but also the complete lack of any verification or inspection. They're going to rely on the United Nations to do oversight and verification that's worse than no verification at all, and I voted for the JCPOA after struggling with questions involving unfreezing assets, verification resources going to Iran, and Trump seems to just blow right through these issues. I think there has to be a lot of soul searching in this administration. Hegseth should go. This military operation has had some tactical success, but he has over promised and under delivered, and Hegseth ought to go.
    - Sen. Richard Blumenthal to Fox News Digital



Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C.:

"Some of the criticism of the MOU is valid, I think, but here's the way I look at it: Without the MOU being signed, there is no pathway to diplomacy to end the nuclear ambitions of Iran. What does that leave you with? War, continuation of the status quo. So the upside of signing the MOU was greater, I think, than the downside. The deal itself is the big prize. If it's a bad deal, I'll say so in my view. I'm hoping it will be much better than JCPOA, but the real prize is, can you expand Abraham Accords after you deal with Iran the way we have. Oct. 7 was designed to stop normalization between Saudi and Israel, because in the eyes of Iran that was a nightmare."



Sen. Thom Tillis, R-N.C.:

"Now we've got 60 days to see what the details look like, and I'm cautiously optimistic. I'm glad the markets are responding well, but the markets are ultimately going to be responding to the details that we all need to see."



Sen. John Kennedy, R-La.:

"Let's give peace a chance. I think that's all the president is saying. I read the document last night, and I've heard all of the speculation, and what about this, and what about that, and what if this happens, one, if that doesn't happen, we'll know in 60 days.



"Let's give us 60 days to give peace a chance, and that's all he's saying."

Fox News' Nicholas Ballasy and Hannah Brennan contributed to this report.
Posted by Eric Mack

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Yes.  Trump just sealed not only our fate but the fate of the free world.

Why believe this is the end of it?

No reason to believe that whatsoever.

https://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php?topic=584127.msg3322017#msg3322017

[libertybele]

Why believe this is the end of it?

No reason to believe that whatsoever.

https://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php?topic=584127.msg3322017#msg3322017

No this isn't the end., but it sure leaves our door wide open.

I am more than willing to give peace a chance and am reminding myself that God is in control and this is HIS will.

[BobfromWB]

𝐍𝐢𝐨𝐡 𝐁𝐞𝐫𝐠 🇮🇷 ✡︎
@NiohBerg

Let me be very clear:

Those $300 billion will not go to any civilian purpose. They will be used to rebuild and resupply the IRGC.

The sanction relief and unfrozen assets will be used towards exactly the same end.

Normal Iranians will not see a cent.

Bookmark this.

5:46 PM  ·  Jun 17, 2026  ·  30.4K Views

https://x.com/NiohBerg/status/2067378470347256232

In context here: 47 said Iran suffered a US$1trillion in damages & that money will be used for rebuilding.

OK. Considering the US hit only "military" targets and related infrastructure, what exactly will Iran be rebuilding?

Even a kid could tell you that a fort that suffers damages, then gets a lot of money to rebuild, will not be using the money to build schools grocery stores, and apartment buildings.

Another question: if there was a trillion in damages, how much money in munitions, from bunker busters to bullets, did it cost to achieve that level of destruction?

Was that level of expenditure worth the cost, keeping in mind the people who were in charge are still in charge, albeit with a more rational and intelligent mind set [ according to 47 ]?

[massadvj]

Well, at least you ladies might acknowledge the Iranian Navy and Air Force and Weapons Systems are extinct.

That we can fly over Tehran at will, same as an Amazon delivery drone.


So there's that...   

Yes, and we were able to leverage that by giving them $300 billion to rehabilitate their military and missile capabilities.

[BobfromWB]

This would be a violation of the MOU.  Will Trump ignore this to protect the "deal?"

It would be a significant change, if 47 did not ignore it.

[massadvj]

Considering the US hit only "military" targets and related infrastructure, what exactly will Iran be rebuilding?

Careful. By asking this very obvious question, people will accuse you of not being a military expert, and therefore incapable of understanding the incalculable wisdom of the orange guy playing 4 dimensional chess.

[massadvj]

Why believe this is the end of it?

No reason to believe that whatsoever.

None. Middle East wars have been ongoing for thousands of years. Of course it is not the end.

[BobfromWB]

Vance probably just handed the 2028 GOP nomination for Prez to Rubio.

Some may wonder why there is no mention of missiles in the MOU. Its very simple, 47 when asked that question, said Iran's neighbors have missiles so there is no reason Iran should not have them. 

Like in 47's mind a missile that can travel 100 miles is the same as one that can travel 2,000. This level of thinking is grade school level or lower. From this we can understand why 47's foreign policies are so childish.

 

[BobfromWB]

No. We have to wait for them to violate any agreement. Then we can bomb the sh*t out of them.

No! We have to wait until 47 gives them 60 days to negotiate their way out of the conundrum. Then everything will return to 47 normal; there will be no further bombing - for all the good it did ...

[Right_in_Virginia]

It would have been better to apply long-term pressure to the regime with sanctions and limited military action.

Israel wasn't having any of this ⬆️.

Trump led me to believe he understood all of this when he was running for president in 2024. His first term record seemed to confirm it. And yet, here we are. Based on his body language and bearing, I think he knows he was hoodwinked.

It's an election year in Israel, too ...

[BobfromWB]

Trump should have had the backbone to put Rubio into play.  I think he may have had the steadfastness to sink his heels in and come up with a better 'deal'.  Just my opinion.

At the end of the day, Trump signed it.  He IS responsible.  He surrendered.  He backed down BIGLY!

Why expect 47 to have a backbone in regards to Rubio, when he did not even have the backbone to finish the war what he started?

[Right_in_Virginia]

Careful. By asking this very obvious question, people will accuse you of not being a military expert, and therefore incapable of understanding the incalculable wisdom of the orange guy playing 4 dimensional chess.

Why not just answer the question?

[massadvj]

Why not just answer the question?

I answered it in my previous post:

"Iran's civilian and economic infrastructure is largely intact, so why does Iran need $300 billion to "rebuild?" Obviously, it wants to rebuild its military capability."

[Right_in_Virginia]

Well, at least you ladies might acknowledge the Iranian Navy and Air Force and Weapons Systems are extinct.

That we can fly over Tehran at will, same as an Amazon delivery drone.   So there's that...   

.
After reading through the comments from this morning, I'm half expecting the Reagan estate's attorneys to request the removal of Ronnie's photo from the banner.   

@DCPatriot

[BobfromWB]

This deal is a win for Iran and a loss for the USA. It would have been better to apply long-term pressure to the regime with sanctions and limited military action. Now Iran has international diplomatic recognition, the ability to sell its oil freely in international markets, control of the Strait of Hormuz, and the money to rehabilitate its jihad against the infidels. Iran's civilian and economic infrastructure is largely intact, so why does Iran need $300 billion to "rebuild?" Obviously, it wants to rebuild its military capability.

As I said from the beginning, we should never have undertaken this war to begin with. As I have observed American politics since the 1960s, I have seen that, from time to time, our leaders and the people get "war fever." They overestimate the advantages of going to war, and underestimate the disadvantages. Vietnam. Iraq. Afghanistan. Ukraine. Both parties fall victim to it, although the Democrats only seem to get war fever over Democrat wars.

At the beginning of this war, I saw that same war fever brewing up again, some of it from people right here at TBR. I recognize this syndrome because I myself had a bad case of it before GWB engaged in the Iraq War. But after that fiasco, I vowed I would never succumb to it again. The Iraq War gave me war fever immunity.

Trump led me to believe he understood all of this when he was running for president in 2024. His first term record seemed to confirm it. And yet, here we are. Based on his body language and bearing, I think he knows he was hoodwinked. This deal was the only reasonable off-ramp that the Iranians would agree to, so he took it.

For those of you who think this military action was a noble undertaking, but that Trump did not have the stomach to see it through, I have a few questions:

1. Do we have the military capability to control the Strait of Hormuz, and to capture Kharg Island, both actions being necessary for us to have "won" this war?

2. If we do have the capability, do Trump and the GOP have the strength to withstand the political blowback?

3. If the answer to #1 is yes, and the answer to #2 is no, how should Trump have proceeded based on the stalemate we were in?

Yes this is a terrible deal and a TACO. But I, for one, will be celebrating the fact that we will (temporarily) have peace and not war. And I will pray that, finally, our leadership will learn that we cannot enter into a war without the full commitment to obliterate the enemy at  all costs; and that when such time occurs, it will be based on a clear provocation that threatens our existence. Neither of these conditions were present when we undertook this military adventure.

Glad you brought up control of Kharg Island. Holding it is near impossible, like Da Nang. The whole point is to take control of the oil or at least deny Iran its use. Easy solution? Just destroy the pumping stations that bring the oil to the island. They can be rebuilt later.

While you are celebrating peace and cheaper gas, the Iranians will be going full steam ahead on copying the North Korean H-12 or H-15 ICBM they bought - both versions can hit any city in the US & Alaska - all built with the generous funds of their neighbors and frozen assets to the tune of around, all totaled, 600 billion US.

Of course, you are sure that the Iranians are properly cowed and, with heads slumped low, are slinking into obscurity ... right?

47 and some of his pals in the GOP and in general have the political backbone of a gnat.

Any "stalemate" is of 47's own making. If he had finessed what he started and killed all of the IRGC and Mad Mullahs, there would be no "stalemate" and the Persians would be free of the Arab oppression.

[BobfromWB]

http://twitter.com/JewishWarrior13/status/2067284320662790313

1929? What a way to compare today's high market to the Crash! But overall he's admitting when it comes to war and protecting the US he's a total failure because cheap gas and high stock market.

Never mind that the funds Iran will now be getting will be used to build out their "destroyed" nuclear weapons program with the MIRVd warheads mounted on their ICBMs capable of reaching any city in the US. Of which we have absolutely NO defense.

Cheap gas and high stock market now, nuclear fallout later. Posterity has 47 to thank for this possible future.

[massadvj]

Any "stalemate" is of 47's own making. If he had finessed what he started and killed all of the IRGC and Mad Mullahs, there would be no "stalemate" and the Persians would be free of the Arab oppression.

Monday morning quarterbacking.

I think Trump tried. He hit thousands of targets. IRGC is made up 150,000 individuals widely distributed throughout the country. They control millions of people through local police forces and other municipal services, and are willing to kill each and every dissident they encounter. They cannot be obliterated with conventional bombing alone.

[BobfromWB]

https://twitter.com/RandPaul/status/2067312066856407369

Standing with Paul ... possibly the only politician to surrender quicker than 47.

[Idiot]

The repubs basically had no choice or they were going to get creamed in the mid terms.  Oil prices are already heading for the 60’s.  We can go back to pounding Iraq after the election. 

[libertybele]

Why expect 47 to have a backbone in regards to Rubio, when he did not even have the backbone to finish the war what he started?

Which still raises the question as to why he sent in a special envoy instead of our Secy of State in the first place?? 

That not only raises questions but further sollidifies my assumption about the supposed 'special envoy'.

[massadvj]

The repubs basically had no choice or they were going to get creamed in the mid terms.  Oil prices are already heading for the 60’s.  We can go back to pounding Iraq after the election.

The political pressure will be even greater after the midterms, with a presidential election just two years away.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Trump should have had the backbone to put Rubio into play.  I think he may have had the steadfastness to sink his heels in and come up with a better 'deal'. 

@libertybele  @BobfromWB

AI OVERVIEW ...

U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio has strongly supported the war with Iran. He publicly defended the administration's military campaign, calling the conflict "a favor" to the United States and arguing it was a necessary and "wise decision" to neutralize an imminent threat to American and global security.

Rubio's stances and actions regarding the conflict include:

Initial Justification: Early in the conflict, he argued that proactive U.S. military action was a defensive necessity, suggesting that waiting for Iran to strike would result in more American casualties.

Conflict Assessment: As fighting escalated, he publicly stated that he believed the war with Iran was largely over. He pointed to the severe degradation of Iran's navy, missile launchers, and defense infrastructure, along with its struggling economy, as indicators that the conflict had run its course.

Diplomatic Efforts: Alongside the military strategy, Rubio has participated in ongoing negotiations and defended the administration's approach to securing concessions and reopening the Strait of Hormuz.

Rubio's steadfast defense of the conflict has garnered significant attention, making his position a focal point for lawmakers questioning the administration's broader foreign policy.

He has frequently been called upon to brief and testify before Congress regarding both the U.S. military campaign and subsequent preliminary peace agreements.

[BobfromWB]

Senators react to Trump’s Iran peace deal: ‘What an embarrassment’

Republican and Democrat senators react to President Donald Trump’s memorandum of understanding (MOU), with lawmakers from both parties criticizing the agreement and raising concerns about its potential impact.

Sen. Richard Blumenthal, D-Conn.
    My initial reaction is that this blunder means that there may be changes in the administration. The MOU has so many holes and gaps, it puts Iran in a much stronger position than before this war, and what strikes me is not only the hundreds of billions of dollars that are going to go to Iran that it can use to fund its proxies or its rebuilding of its military, but also the complete lack of any verification or inspection. They're going to rely on the United Nations to do oversight and verification that's worse than no verification at all, and I voted for the JCPOA after struggling with questions involving unfreezing assets, verification resources going to Iran, and Trump seems to just blow right through these issues. I think there has to be a lot of soul searching in this administration. Hegseth should go. This military operation has had some tactical success, but he has over promised and under delivered, and Hegseth ought to go - Sen. Richard Blumenthal to Fox News Digital

Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C.:
"Some of the criticism of the MOU is valid, I think, but here's the way I look at it: Without the MOU being signed, there is no pathway to diplomacy to end the nuclear ambitions of Iran. What does that leave you with? War, continuation of the status quo. So the upside of signing the MOU was greater, I think, than the downside. The deal itself is the big prize. If it's a bad deal, I'll say so in my view. I'm hoping it will be much better than JCPOA, but the real prize is, can you expand Abraham Accords after you deal with Iran the way we have. Oct. 7 was designed to stop normalization between Saudi and Israel, because in the eyes of Iran that was a nightmare."

Sen. Thom Tillis, R-N.C.:
"Now we've got 60 days to see what the details look like, and I'm cautiously optimistic. I'm glad the markets are responding well, but the markets are ultimately going to be responding to the details that we all need to see."

Sen. John Kennedy, R-La.:
"Let's give peace a chance. I think that's all the president is saying. I read the document last night, and I've heard all of the speculation, and what about this, and what about that, and what if this happens, one, if that doesn't happen, we'll know in 60 days.

"Let's give us 60 days to give peace a chance, and that's all he's saying."

Fox News' Nicholas Ballasy and Hannah Brennan contributed to this report.
Posted by Eric Mack

Let's give peace a chance ... please tell me that he did not say that idiotic phrase!

[libertybele]

The repubs basically had no choice or they were going to get creamed in the mid terms.  Oil prices are already heading for the 60’s.  We can go back to pounding Iraq after the election.

??? Then we should have never gone in, in the first place.

Lower gas prices aren't going to matter if Iran decides to launch a nuke at us, or gives the green light to the many  sleeper cells within this country. 

[BobfromWB]

Careful. By asking this very obvious question, people will accuse you of not being a military expert, and therefore incapable of understanding the incalculable wisdom of the orange guy playing 4 dimensional chess.

Nope. Have been making correct prognosis for decades - out of necessity in my former profession ... "incalculable wisdom" or incalculable stupidity?

[massadvj]

Which still raises the question as to why he sent in a special envoy instead of our Secy of State in the first place?? 

This is an excellent question. My inclination is to think that Trump knew who the hawks and doves were in his administration. He sent the hawks out to play "bad cop" and the doves out to play "good cop". Then he played both sides against the middle until he saw an offramp he could live with.

If a quick military victory was possible, I think he would have taken it. In the end, I think he realized that everyone who was pressing him toward the military route had miscalculated, and so he decided that a flawed peace was better than a flawed war.

[libertybele]

This is an excellent question. My inclination is to think that Trump knew who the hawks and doves were in his administration. He sent the hawks out to play "bad cop" and the doves out to play "good cop". Then he played both sides against the middle until he saw an offramp he could live with.

If a quick military victory was possible, I think he would have taken it. In the end, I think he realized that everyone who was pressing him toward the military route had miscalculated, and so he decided that a flawed peace was better than a flawed war.

Yes, I absolutely agree with you. 

[Right_in_Virginia]

Which still raises the question as to why he sent in a special envoy instead of our Secy of State in the first place?? 

Rubio has been and remains part of everything @libertybele  ---- including last night's signing of the agreement in the Palace of Versailles

Video:  https://youtu.be/qUoUeQ_tYbE?si=bheW5x4fmjOK1iSi

[BobfromWB]

Monday morning quarterbacking.

I think Trump tried. He hit thousands of targets. IRGC is made up 150,000 individuals widely distributed throughout the country. They control millions of people through local police forces and other municipal services, and are willing to kill each and every dissident they encounter. They cannot be obliterated with conventional bombing alone.

Of course bombing alone never eliminated a major enemy. It takes ground troops - even Venezuela took ground troops - to achieve a victory. But somehow against a nation that spent major money fortifying its country, no troops were needed to achieve victory, only bombs & a piece of paper to wave, a deal to behold.

But everyone was all hyped on not losing a single troop in a war which would have lasted forever, according to some here and the Media mob.

Now, 47 has given the Islamic forever war a new lease on life death and guaranteed many, many US troops and civilians will fall at the hands of the newly empowered Leader in the Islamic conquest of the world.

[BobfromWB]

@libertybele  @BobfromWB

AI = GIGO

[IsailedawayfromFR]

No this isn't the end., but it sure leaves our door wide open.

I am more than willing to give peace a chance and am reminding myself that God is in control and this is HIS will.

So why the melodrama about the fate of the world is 'sealed'?  Appears you don't really believe that anyway.

[massadvj]

Yes, I absolutely agree with you.

Well, then. Let me take it a step further. JD Vance deserves great credit for having the wisdom of being the only top admin official to oppose this action to begin with, and then to hold his tongue once the adventure went forward. After having been proved right, he went to Pakistan and carved out a path to peace (flawed as it is); and for doing this, he will likely lose the presidency. That, to me, is a profile in courage.

[libertybele]

Well, then. Let me take it a step further. JD Vance deserves great credit for having the wisdom of being the only top admin official to oppose this action to begin with, and then to hold his tongue once the adventure went forward. After having been proved right, he went to Pakistan and carved out a path to peace (flawed as it is); and for doing this, he will likely lose the presidency. That, to me, is a profile in courage.

Ok, that is a perception worth considering.  I also have a hunch though that Vance won't run for the presidency.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

None. Middle East wars have been ongoing for thousands of years. Of course it is not the end.

Yes, we have been told in Revelation the war will continue until the last battle at Megiddo

[libertybele]

So why the melodrama about the fate of the world is 'sealed'?  Appears you don't really believe that anyway.

What I am saying is what is done is done.  There's no going back.  We can only hope for peaceful  times.  But, I don't hold out a whole lot of hope that Iran won't rebuild and strengthen their arsenal and have nuclear capabilities. We left the decision of peaceful times in their laps.  Having little faith in Iran's choice for peace, I see that the world's fate was sealed by the U.S. making a deal that obviously favors Iran.

Not being melodramatic but realistic.  There's a huge difference.

[massadvj]

Ok, that is a perception worth considering.  I also have a hunch though that Vance won't run for the presidency.

I think he has made the calculation that being the architect of this deal will likely destroy his chances. But once people stop and really think about it, he may emerge as the unbeatable front runner. 

He had the clarity to seek and find a third way. It is an extremely flawed solution, and will likely reinvigorate terrorist murderers. But people will realize the mistake was going in to begin with, and this deal beats going into a ground war against a country that is more powerful than Iraq and Afghanistan combined.

[Right_in_Virginia]

AI = GIGO

What presented was garbage @BobfromWB

[libertybele]

I think he has made the calculation that being the architect of this deal will likely destroy his chances. But once people stop and really think about it, he may emerge as the unbeatable front runner. 

He had the clarity to seek and find a third way. It is an extremely flawed solution, and will likely reinvigorate terrorist murderers. But people will realize the mistake was going in to begin with, and this deal beats going into a ground war against a country that is more powerful than Iraq and Afghanistan combined.

Most in this forum realize that  Vance objected in the first place going into Iran, but I don't think his objection is widely known and will be forgotten if we wind up with a situation worse than 9-11 on our hands.

[mystery-ak]

Most in this forum realize that  Vance objected in the first place going into Iran, but I don't think his objection is widely known and will be forgotten if we wind up with a situation worse than 9-11 on our hands.

I don't think it got much attention at the time..I posted it several times at the beginning of this war.
Too bad Trump didn't listen to him instead he wanted all the glory of being a peacemaker...that's just my opinion btw.

I really think he thought this would be another Venezuela and be over in a few weeks....and here we are.

[libertybele]

I don't think it got much attention at the time..I posted it several times at the beginning of this war.
Too bad Trump didn't listen to him instead he wanted all the glory of being a peacemaker...that's just my opinion btw.

I really think he thought this would be another Venezuela and be over in a few weeks....and here we are.

I think your assessment is accurate; Trump even proclaimed victory before he should have and announced that this war would be over in a couple of weeks.  Even Hegseth and Cain went public with that information in the beginning.  Their calculations were very wrong.  Thus, the abrupt stop.