Author Topic: 10'000 Mayan Ruins  (Read 1681 times)

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Online bigheadfred

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Re: 10'000 Mayan Ruins
« Reply #50 on: February 11, 2026, 06:12:11 pm »
Cyclopian/megalithic.. Pretty much interchangeable terms.

Though my studies in S/C America are pretty limited... Interested in the catastrophic destruction, Which seems to be Act of God in scope... And an interest in the chincana of Cusco, and etc... and how that connects to underworld mythology.

There;s some stuff there... And it lead me North.  :whistle: :shrug:

This is interesting.

"In the legends and myths of the Aztecs, Teotihuacan was the place where the gods convened to give birth to the Fifth Sun of our era, after a previous world age had ended in darkness. It is in that remote age that we need to look for the unknown megalithic builders of Teotihuacan.

According to a story that was told and copied by Bernardino de Sahagún soon after the conquest:

“They say they came to this land to rule over it…they came from the sea on ships, a multitude of them, and landed on the shore of the sea, to the North…from there they went on, seeking the white mountains, the smoky mountains…led by their priests and by the voice of their gods. Finally they came to the place that they called Tamoanchan…and there they settled for some time…but it was not for long, for their wise masters left, took again to their boats…bringing back with them all their holy books and their sacred images”
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline roamer_1

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Re: 10'000 Mayan Ruins
« Reply #51 on: February 11, 2026, 06:19:46 pm »
This is interesting.

"In the legends and myths of the Aztecs, Teotihuacan was the place where the gods convened to give birth to the Fifth Sun of our era, after a previous world age had ended in darkness. It is in that remote age that we need to look for the unknown megalithic builders of Teotihuacan.

According to a story that was told and copied by Bernardino de Sahagún soon after the conquest:

“They say they came to this land to rule over it…they came from the sea on ships, a multitude of them, and landed on the shore of the sea, to the North…from there they went on, seeking the white mountains, the smoky mountains…led by their priests and by the voice of their gods. Finally they came to the place that they called Tamoanchan…and there they settled for some time…but it was not for long, for their wise masters left, took again to their boats…bringing back with them all their holy books and their sacred images”

ALWAYS they come from the sea or the sky, trading knowledge for women. Always they wind up ruling. Almost every royal line begins the same way...

Interesting to speculate that the mega stuff is antediluvian, and commiserate in time to the myths of Atlantis... All of it almost ties together - Just past the bounds of history. It is tantalizing.  :pondering:
« Last Edit: February 11, 2026, 06:21:29 pm by roamer_1 »

Online bigheadfred

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Re: 10'000 Mayan Ruins
« Reply #52 on: February 11, 2026, 06:22:16 pm »
Need to do more exploring here:

https://unchartedruins.blogspot.com/
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline roamer_1

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Re: 10'000 Mayan Ruins
« Reply #53 on: February 11, 2026, 06:35:58 pm »
Need to do more exploring here:

https://unchartedruins.blogspot.com/

Quote from: from the site
It shows that this civilization did not vanish "in a single day and night", 11,600 years ago, but that for thousands of years afterwards its survivors embarked on a worldwide project aimed at resurrecting the lost world of the gods and bringing forth a new Golden Age.

Close... But it DID disappear in a day and a night. It's survivors did spread around the Atlantic basin... yeah. Something like that.

Thanks for that.  :beer:

I do not believe that Atlantis was the 'true cradle of civilization' ... But the occultic and arcane sure do believe it... And are working toward that restoration of their 'golden age'

Listen to a guy named Gary Wayne on youtube... He analogizes the whole thing - I think it was far more visceral than he describes... But he has really dialed in the ancient royal lines. Pretty close.

Btw, his two-volume work, 'Genesis 6 Conspiracy' is available for around 10 bucks for the pair in Kindle Unlimited.

Online bigheadfred

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Re: 10'000 Mayan Ruins
« Reply #54 on: February 11, 2026, 06:43:54 pm »
Close... But it DID disappear in a day and a night. It's survivors did spread around the Atlantic basin... yeah. Something like that.

Thanks for that.  :beer:

I do not believe that Atlantis was the 'true cradle of civilization' ... But the occultic and arcane sure do believe it... And are working toward that restoration of their 'golden age'

Listen to a guy named Gary Wayne on youtube... He analogizes the whole thing - I think it was far more visceral than he describes... But he has really dialed in the ancient royal lines. Pretty close.

Btw, his two-volume work, 'Genesis 6 Conspiracy' is available for around 10 bucks for the pair in Kindle Unlimited.

Bought my Mon his first book.
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline roamer_1

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Re: 10'000 Mayan Ruins
« Reply #55 on: February 11, 2026, 06:50:07 pm »
Bought my Mon his first book.

Another guy who did a whole lot on the subject was Chris Pinto, though you will have trouble finding him... his old stuff got censored. There is one running around... Him on Fourth Watch w/Justin Faull... That is an epic interview.

Offline BobfromWB

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Re: 10'000 Mayan Ruins
« Reply #56 on: February 12, 2026, 12:35:55 pm »
Graham Hancock's book "America Before" covers the method and means of the disappearances.
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Online bigheadfred

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Re: 10'000 Mayan Ruins
« Reply #57 on: February 12, 2026, 12:51:30 pm »
Graham Hancock's book "America Before" covers the method and means of the disappearances.

Do you mean antediluvian? @BobfromWB
« Last Edit: February 12, 2026, 12:53:02 pm by bigheadfred »
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Offline BobfromWB

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Re: 10'000 Mayan Ruins
« Reply #58 on: February 12, 2026, 05:28:38 pm »
Do you mean antediluvian? @BobfromWB

The antediluvian term is associated with Biblical lore. The time of Chaos, the time of the Comet was prior to the sudden collapse of the Ice Sheets; while they had been gradually melting, it was not until the collapse of the Younger Dryas Event a 1000 years later that the world's oceans rose on average 400 feet.
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Online bigheadfred

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Re: 10'000 Mayan Ruins
« Reply #59 on: February 12, 2026, 05:44:03 pm »
The antediluvian term is associated with Biblical lore. The time of Chaos, the time of the Comet was prior to the sudden collapse of the Ice Sheets; while they had been gradually melting, it was not until the collapse of the Younger Dryas Event a 1000 years later that the world's oceans rose on average 400 feet.

What does this have to do with the civilizations in Central America?
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

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Re: 10'000 Mayan Ruins
« Reply #60 on: February 12, 2026, 05:55:58 pm »
The antediluvian term is associated with Biblical lore. The time of Chaos, the time of the Comet was prior to the sudden collapse of the Ice Sheets; while they had been gradually melting, it was not until the collapse of the Younger Dryas Event a 1000 years later that the world's oceans rose on average 400 feet.

There must have been one hell-of-a-lot of frozen water on the world's land masses prior to that.  :thud:
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Online bigheadfred

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Re: 10'000 Mayan Ruins
« Reply #61 on: February 12, 2026, 06:19:05 pm »
The comet strike didn't contribute to rapid sea level rise. Perhaps the opposite. The Younger Dryas event was more gradual than people think. There may be more to Hapgood's theory of crustal displacement/pole shift as it aligns more with a sudden rapid 'sea level rise' i.e. the sloshing of the oceans that fit more closely to worldwide flood myths.
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline BobfromWB

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Re: 10'000 Mayan Ruins
« Reply #62 on: February 13, 2026, 06:47:00 am »
Close... But it DID disappear in a day and a night. It's survivors did spread around the Atlantic basin... yeah. Something like that.

Thanks for that.  :beer:

I do not believe that Atlantis was the 'true cradle of civilization' ...


Another theory with some justification is the story of Atlantis was made up to misdirect traders out  into the open ocean in hopes of finding riches, protecting the secret trade routes and sources of Phoenician and Sea People's wealth.
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Offline BobfromWB

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Re: 10'000 Mayan Ruins
« Reply #63 on: February 13, 2026, 06:52:43 am »
What does this have to do with the civilizations in Central America?

Just back ground on how the Chaos began and the immediate aftermath from which civilization rose again. Without context on the difficulties and huge psychological blows, you need "magic" to find the origins from which they arose.
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Re: 10'000 Mayan Ruins
« Reply #64 on: February 13, 2026, 07:03:37 am »
There must have been one hell-of-a-lot of frozen water on the world's land masses prior to that.  :thud:

During the Last Ice Age, approximately 18,000 years ago, Earth's ice sheets contained an estimated 17 million cubic miles (71 million cubic kilometers) of glacial ice.

This massive volume of ice locked up enough water to lower global sea levels by about 350 to 400 feet (107 to 122 meters). The ice sheets covered vast regions of the Northern Hemisphere, including much of Canada, the northern United States, and Europe, with the largest ice masses in North America and Eurasia.

To convert this to cubic feet:

    1 cubic mile of ice = 147,197,952,000 cubic feet of water

    17 million cubic miles of water ≈ 2.5 × 10¹⁵ cubic feet (2.5 quadrillion cubic feet of water)

This represents the total volume of water stored in ice sheets during the peak of the last ice age.


--
The volume of water locked in ice sheets during the last ice age - 2.5 quadrillion cubic feet (about 17 million cubic miles) - is far greater than any current single body of liquid water on Earth.

For comparison:
    The Pacific Ocean, the largest current body of water, contains about 669.88 million cubic kilometers (~23.65 quadrillion cubic feet), which is roughly 9.5 times larger than the ice volume.

    The largest lake, the Caspian Sea, holds about 18,800 cubic miles (~0.0093 quadrillion cubic feet), less than 1% of the ice volume.

    All of Earth’s liquid freshwater (lakes, rivers, groundwater) combined amounts to about 2.55 million cubic miles (~1.26 quadrillion cubic feet), still only about half the volume of the ice sheets.

    The Atlantic Ocean contains about 310 million cubic km (~10.9 quadrillion cubic feet), roughly 4.4 times less than the ice volume.

    The Indian Ocean holds ~264 million cubic km (~9.3 quadrillion cubic feet), about 3.7 times less.

    All modern glaciers and ice caps (excluding Greenland and Antarctica) contain only ~0.07 million cubic km, a tiny fraction.

    The Great Lakes combined hold ~22,700 cubic km (~0.0008 quadrillion cubic feet), less than 0.03% of the ice volume.

    Lake Baikal, the largest freshwater lake by volume, has ~23,600 cubic km, still less than 0.01%.

The volume of ice during the last ice age (~52 million cubic km or 2.5 quadrillion cubic feet) exceeds all modern lakes and inland seas combined by orders of magnitude.
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Offline BobfromWB

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Re: 10'000 Mayan Ruins
« Reply #65 on: February 13, 2026, 07:23:40 am »
The comet strike didn't contribute to rapid sea level rise. Perhaps the opposite. The Younger Dryas event was more gradual than people think. There may be more to Hapgood's theory of crustal displacement/pole shift as it aligns more with a sudden rapid 'sea level rise' i.e. the sloshing of the oceans that fit more closely to worldwide flood myths.

Hapgood theory relies on extremism to work and is less likely to be a reality. Occam's Razor and all. Let's not omit Velikovsky and the Earth's collision with Venus and Mars while we are at it.

The comet strike precipitated the YDE and the resulting rapid sea level rise. Raising 400 feet is a lot. The proposed mechanism for the end of the YDE is that the Gulf current melted the ice that had been blocking it, after a gigantic chunk of ice slid off the Laurentide Ice Sheet, due to melt water lake formation in its surface.



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Re: 10'000 Mayan Ruins
« Reply #66 on: February 13, 2026, 09:29:15 am »
During the Last Ice Age, approximately 18,000 years ago, Earth's ice sheets contained an estimated 17 million cubic miles (71 million cubic kilometers) of glacial ice.

This massive volume of ice locked up enough water to lower global sea levels by about 350 to 400 feet (107 to 122 meters). The ice sheets covered vast regions of the Northern Hemisphere, including much of Canada, the northern United States, and Europe, with the largest ice masses in North America and Eurasia.

To convert this to cubic feet:

    1 cubic mile of ice = 147,197,952,000 cubic feet of water

    17 million cubic miles of water ≈ 2.5 × 10¹⁵ cubic feet (2.5 quadrillion cubic feet of water)

This represents the total volume of water stored in ice sheets during the peak of the last ice age.


--
The volume of water locked in ice sheets during the last ice age - 2.5 quadrillion cubic feet (about 17 million cubic miles) - is far greater than any current single body of liquid water on Earth.

For comparison:
    The Pacific Ocean, the largest current body of water, contains about 669.88 million cubic kilometers (~23.65 quadrillion cubic feet), which is roughly 9.5 times larger than the ice volume.

    The largest lake, the Caspian Sea, holds about 18,800 cubic miles (~0.0093 quadrillion cubic feet), less than 1% of the ice volume.

    All of Earth’s liquid freshwater (lakes, rivers, groundwater) combined amounts to about 2.55 million cubic miles (~1.26 quadrillion cubic feet), still only about half the volume of the ice sheets.

    The Atlantic Ocean contains about 310 million cubic km (~10.9 quadrillion cubic feet), roughly 4.4 times less than the ice volume.

    The Indian Ocean holds ~264 million cubic km (~9.3 quadrillion cubic feet), about 3.7 times less.

    All modern glaciers and ice caps (excluding Greenland and Antarctica) contain only ~0.07 million cubic km, a tiny fraction.

    The Great Lakes combined hold ~22,700 cubic km (~0.0008 quadrillion cubic feet), less than 0.03% of the ice volume.

    Lake Baikal, the largest freshwater lake by volume, has ~23,600 cubic km, still less than 0.01%.

The volume of ice during the last ice age (~52 million cubic km or 2.5 quadrillion cubic feet) exceeds all modern lakes and inland seas combined by orders of magnitude.

Thanks for going to the trouble of typing all that out for me @BobfromWB but nothing said therein alters the fact that every drop of water that was ever on this planet is still here (Save some minute amounts that we have sent into space in recent times).
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

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Online bigheadfred

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Re: 10'000 Mayan Ruins
« Reply #67 on: February 13, 2026, 10:19:24 am »
For reference I think I found the area in the video. Chactun in Campeche, Mexico.
 91.5 square miles
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Offline roamer_1

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Re: 10'000 Mayan Ruins
« Reply #68 on: February 13, 2026, 06:47:27 pm »

Another theory with some justification is the story of Atlantis was made up to misdirect traders out  into the open ocean in hopes of finding riches, protecting the secret trade routes and sources of Phoenician and Sea People's wealth.

Regardless... Occult and arcane societies are trying to restore what they believe was Atlantis. It is the root of the entire belief system of Evil Inc.

So I don't have to believe it... I don't care that you believe it. That THEY believe it is the point, and what THEY are actively doing with that belief.

I realize mine is a difficult position to defend - My proof lies just out of reach, beyond the bounds of established history...  But that is why this stuff interests me... And far more than current events... Because the stuff from back there is what is going to be bending current events, I am pretty sure.

But that is a loooong conversation, best left to sweet tea and back porches, and talking deep into the night.  happy77

Offline roamer_1

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Re: 10'000 Mayan Ruins
« Reply #69 on: February 13, 2026, 06:56:54 pm »
During the Last Ice Age, approximately 18,000 years ago, Earth's ice sheets contained an estimated 17 million cubic miles (71 million cubic kilometers) of glacial ice.


...According to 'science'... The same azzoles that bring us 'Globull Warming'. How do you lend them such credence?

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Re: 10'000 Mayan Ruins
« Reply #70 on: February 13, 2026, 10:30:24 pm »
...According to 'science'... The same azzoles that bring us 'Globull Warming'. How do you lend them such credence?
The ice thickness calculations were quite a while before AlGore and Co. decided to rant about climate for fun and profit.

Back when scientists concerned with climate were looking for answers to what had been, not posh gigs w/NGOs and limelight for pushing laws, and making WAGs about the future.
Even the environmental ones were more concerned with real pollution until most places were cleaned enough that it looked like the whole gig was over except for some regulatory enforcement jobs.
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Offline roamer_1

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Re: 10'000 Mayan Ruins
« Reply #71 on: February 13, 2026, 10:44:16 pm »
The ice thickness calculations were quite a while before AlGore and Co. decided to rant about climate for fun and profit.

Back when scientists concerned with climate were looking for answers to what had been, not posh gigs w/NGOs and limelight for pushing laws, and making WAGs about the future.
Even the environmental ones were more concerned with real pollution until most places were cleaned enough that it looked like the whole gig was over except for some regulatory enforcement jobs.

Meh.
Piltdown man. Fifty years and more that crap was in the science books.

They were messin with it all the way back to Galileo and Isaac Newton's days. The power writes the law and dissent is not tolerated... The whole damn show started out in alchemy and such - The seven liberal arts ARE the seven sacred sciences of the occult. If the foundation is no good, and the metering is no good, there ain't no reason the believe any of it.

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Re: 10'000 Mayan Ruins
« Reply #72 on: February 14, 2026, 12:16:16 am »
Meh.
Piltdown man. Fifty years and more that crap was in the science books.

They were messin with it all the way back to Galileo and Isaac Newton's days. The power writes the law and dissent is not tolerated... The whole damn show started out in alchemy and such - The seven liberal arts ARE the seven sacred sciences of the occult. If the foundation is no good, and the metering is no good, there ain't no reason the believe any of it.
Different lanes. Piltdown man was a biological fraud, presented as a fossil, likely for fame and pecuniary exploitation (Come see the home of Piltdown Man, stay at the Cave Inn, and eat at the Fire Pit...). It played on the Darwinian fad of the times, and met a cadre hungry for confirmation of theories that made them feel superior, intellectually (AKA, 'ripe' marks). They wanted to believe.

I met Jesus in '02 when I had pneumonia, I don't need to believe, I'm convinced. I know there is a there, there. What He wanted of us is pretty basic. He spelled it out, all we have to do is practice it. The rest is just a fascinating puzzle to me, and some day, I'll get the answers as to how it all happened, not that it will really matter. 

If you want to see fraud in science books, consider it is likely that neither of us will outlive all the references to Anthropognic Global Warming (rebranded "Climate Change") which was a scam foisted to sell Carbon Credits on the Midwest Carbon Exchange, said Carbon Credits purchased from farmers for a small fraction of what they would have sold for on the Exchange to virtually any industry that wanted to stay in business, had putting cap and trade policies in effect become law.  IIRC, the chief profiteers would have made trillions, and included AlGore, Morris Strong and George Soros, but it has been a while since that was going on.
Like I said, for fun and profit.
But one way to get a guesstimate of the thickness of the old ice sheets, is isostatic rebound. The ice that's gone weighed a bit over 57 lbs/cubic foot. Since the continental crust more or less floats on the Mantle, stacking an ice sheet one mile thick on that crust will cause it to sink lower in  the mantle, just like loading a boat makes it displace more water. It sounds strange, but by studying river channels and deposits, you can get a handle on whether the crust was sinking or rising (due to the ice to the north--South down under, or even perhaps where you are) The leading edge of continental glaciation is relatively easy to pick out, the deposits are diagnostic. As the ice iceward melted, it relieved that weight on the continent, and the continent which was riding lower on the mantle rebounded (and still is rebounding in places) just like removing the cargo from a ship causes it to displace less water and ride higher. That rise causes streams to cut deeper and leave terraces behind. The guys who do this sort of calculation get a rough idea of how much weight was there, by figuring out how much weight has melted off and how much the continent has rebounded from that relief. I'll be the first to admit, it isn't precise to the inch, but within a few hundred feet or so, I think they have something.

In the meantime, there were serious geochemists out there long before Erf Day, who were taking a different approach, along with Oceanographers who had noted apparent river channels (and submarine canyons) on the Continental Shelves, which appeared to be the product of terrestrial erosion, as opposed to scouring channels from debris flows.  Yet another angle would work with the boundaries of glaciation on land, pencil in those same limits on water. Knowing the area under the ice, and how much sea levels dropped, lets you make a rough calculation of how much water would have to be trapped in the ice sheets to get that much sea level drop, and with that, a thickness.

I'd wager there is something that could be done with trapped water in sediments, too, comparing salinity which may or may not produce an estimate of how much water was removed from the oceans by evaporation and deposited as ice and snow on land, leaving water in the ocean basins that was more saline than usual.

There really isn't much motive I can see to game the numbers there. It's just trying to get an idea of what was.

What I wonder, as long as we are on the topic of Glaciation (Continental, more than Alpine), is what the land surface looked like before the last round of regolith vs God's Own Bulldozer.

The Missouri was believed to have flown north, not south, and now follows what was the edge of the ice sheet. The Red River of the North did (and still does) flow north, but got dammed up to form Glacial Lake Agassiz, and the sediments from that make Eastern North Dakota and the Westernmost part of Minnesota (the Red River Valley) one of the flattest places on Earth. It turns out that that old lake bottom is some incredibly fertile farmland, too. But as those lake levels changed, the beaches along the lake edge moved, sometimes miles for just a few feet of elevation. Those have been mapped, too, but it's difficult to tell whether the changes are due to more ice to the North or the Lake draining episodically.

Anyway, people like living on the beach, and where rivers come together (since water is a great way to transport most anything) and where the earlier river channels went and met, there should have been settlements in warmer times before the last (Laurentide) Glaciation.  A friend who was up by Tioga ND was drilling water wells for a living, and pulled a piece of brass our of a new hole from about 50 ft. down. For some reason, it didn't dawn on him at the time that there just should not have been any brass at that depth, and that it does not occur anywhere naturally, and it got tossed on the truck and lost. Who knows? Did something near the surface get kicked downhole? Hard to say otherwise without being able to examine it, but it invites thought. Glaciation would have either wiped away or buried any signs of previous occupation.

In the interglacials before the laurentide sheet, my archaeology professor back in college pointed out that there were times when the corridor from Asia was open, just much earlier than the presumed peri-Clovis migration event. He postulated (like a good heretic, one of the reasons I liked him) that humans came here in waves, as climate and geography allowed, and the first wave was likely somewhere close to 32,000 years before present.

He also noted that the facial features of the southern South Americans were notably different from the MesoAmerican tribes (Aztec, Olmec, for instance), who differed from the Natives of our Northern Plains, and elsewhere in what became the US and Canada.

Sure, that might be an artifact based on cultural tastes for what constitutes attractiveness, or tribal constraints on subsequent procreation, but it also raises the possibility of distinct populations coming over and just sticking more or less together, and getting pushed further south by new arrivals. Immigration only came pretty much from one direction--unless the seas had been conquered long before Columbus, Henry the Navigator, Vespucci, and Magellan came along.

All fun to speculate about.

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Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

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C S Lewis

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Re: 10'000 Mayan Ruins
« Reply #73 on: February 14, 2026, 10:22:10 am »
The ice thickness calculations were quite a while before AlGore and Co. decided to rant about climate for fun and profit.

Back when scientists concerned with climate were looking for answers to what had been, not posh gigs w/NGOs and limelight for pushing laws, and making WAGs about the future.
Even the environmental ones were more concerned with real pollution until most places were cleaned enough that it looked like the whole gig was over except for some regulatory enforcement jobs.

For those of you not familiar with oilfield shorthand.

WAG = Wild assed guess

SWAG = Semi WAG

ESWAG = Educated SWAG
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

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Re: 10'000 Mayan Ruins
« Reply #74 on: February 14, 2026, 10:28:08 am »
Different lanes. Piltdown man was a biological fraud, presented as a fossil, likely for fame and pecuniary exploitation (Come see the home of Piltdown Man, stay at the Cave Inn, and eat at the Fire Pit...). It played on the Darwinian fad of the times, and met a cadre hungry for confirmation of theories that made them feel superior, intellectually (AKA, 'ripe' marks). They wanted to believe.

I met Jesus in '02 when I had pneumonia, I don't need to believe, I'm convinced. I know there is a there, there. What He wanted of us is pretty basic. He spelled it out, all we have to do is practice it. The rest is just a fascinating puzzle to me, and some day, I'll get the answers as to how it all happened, not that it will really matter. 

If you want to see fraud in science books, consider it is likely that neither of us will outlive all the references to Anthropognic Global Warming (rebranded "Climate Change") which was a scam foisted to sell Carbon Credits on the Midwest Carbon Exchange, said Carbon Credits purchased from farmers for a small fraction of what they would have sold for on the Exchange to virtually any industry that wanted to stay in business, had putting cap and trade policies in effect become law.  IIRC, the chief profiteers would have made trillions, and included AlGore, Morris Strong and George Soros, but it has been a while since that was going on.
Like I said, for fun and profit.
But one way to get a guesstimate of the thickness of the old ice sheets, is isostatic rebound. The ice that's gone weighed a bit over 57 lbs/cubic foot. Since the continental crust more or less floats on the Mantle, stacking an ice sheet one mile thick on that crust will cause it to sink lower in  the mantle, just like loading a boat makes it displace more water. It sounds strange, but by studying river channels and deposits, you can get a handle on whether the crust was sinking or rising (due to the ice to the north--South down under, or even perhaps where you are) The leading edge of continental glaciation is relatively easy to pick out, the deposits are diagnostic. As the ice iceward melted, it relieved that weight on the continent, and the continent which was riding lower on the mantle rebounded (and still is rebounding in places) just like removing the cargo from a ship causes it to displace less water and ride higher. That rise causes streams to cut deeper and leave terraces behind. The guys who do this sort of calculation get a rough idea of how much weight was there, by figuring out how much weight has melted off and how much the continent has rebounded from that relief. I'll be the first to admit, it isn't precise to the inch, but within a few hundred feet or so, I think they have something.

In the meantime, there were serious geochemists out there long before Erf Day, who were taking a different approach, along with Oceanographers who had noted apparent river channels (and submarine canyons) on the Continental Shelves, which appeared to be the product of terrestrial erosion, as opposed to scouring channels from debris flows.  Yet another angle would work with the boundaries of glaciation on land, pencil in those same limits on water. Knowing the area under the ice, and how much sea levels dropped, lets you make a rough calculation of how much water would have to be trapped in the ice sheets to get that much sea level drop, and with that, a thickness.

I'd wager there is something that could be done with trapped water in sediments, too, comparing salinity which may or may not produce an estimate of how much water was removed from the oceans by evaporation and deposited as ice and snow on land, leaving water in the ocean basins that was more saline than usual.

There really isn't much motive I can see to game the numbers there. It's just trying to get an idea of what was.

What I wonder, as long as we are on the topic of Glaciation (Continental, more than Alpine), is what the land surface looked like before the last round of regolith vs God's Own Bulldozer.

The Missouri was believed to have flown north, not south, and now follows what was the edge of the ice sheet. The Red River of the North did (and still does) flow north, but got dammed up to form Glacial Lake Agassiz, and the sediments from that make Eastern North Dakota and the Westernmost part of Minnesota (the Red River Valley) one of the flattest places on Earth. It turns out that that old lake bottom is some incredibly fertile farmland, too. But as those lake levels changed, the beaches along the lake edge moved, sometimes miles for just a few feet of elevation. Those have been mapped, too, but it's difficult to tell whether the changes are due to more ice to the North or the Lake draining episodically.

Anyway, people like living on the beach, and where rivers come together (since water is a great way to transport most anything) and where the earlier river channels went and met, there should have been settlements in warmer times before the last (Laurentide) Glaciation.  A friend who was up by Tioga ND was drilling water wells for a living, and pulled a piece of brass our of a new hole from about 50 ft. down. For some reason, it didn't dawn on him at the time that there just should not have been any brass at that depth, and that it does not occur anywhere naturally, and it got tossed on the truck and lost. Who knows? Did something near the surface get kicked downhole? Hard to say otherwise without being able to examine it, but it invites thought. Glaciation would have either wiped away or buried any signs of previous occupation.

In the interglacials before the laurentide sheet, my archaeology professor back in college pointed out that there were times when the corridor from Asia was open, just much earlier than the presumed peri-Clovis migration event. He postulated (like a good heretic, one of the reasons I liked him) that humans came here in waves, as climate and geography allowed, and the first wave was likely somewhere close to 32,000 years before present.

He also noted that the facial features of the southern South Americans were notably different from the MesoAmerican tribes (Aztec, Olmec, for instance), who differed from the Natives of our Northern Plains, and elsewhere in what became the US and Canada.

Sure, that might be an artifact based on cultural tastes for what constitutes attractiveness, or tribal constraints on subsequent procreation, but it also raises the possibility of distinct populations coming over and just sticking more or less together, and getting pushed further south by new arrivals. Immigration only came pretty much from one direction--unless the seas had been conquered long before Columbus, Henry the Navigator, Vespucci, and Magellan came along.

All fun to speculate about.

 :yowsa:

The part I bolded is absolute fact!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

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Re: 10'000 Mayan Ruins
« Reply #75 on: February 14, 2026, 10:33:52 am »
:yowsa:

The part I bolded is absolute fact!

Yes, it is, and typically, when Leftists spout altruistic motives, the real motive is profit.
Look at feeding and caring for all those nonexistent children in day cares in Minnesota or transporting people to doctors appointments that did not exist with fleets of idle vehicles. It all sounds wonderful on the face of it, but hides corruption and scammers looting the people through the government or the marketplace.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

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Re: 10'000 Mayan Ruins
« Reply #76 on: February 14, 2026, 10:54:28 am »
Yes, it is, and typically, when Leftists spout altruistic motives, the real motive is profit.
Look at feeding and caring for all those nonexistent children in day cares in Minnesota or transporting people to doctors appointments that did not exist with fleets of idle vehicles. It all sounds wonderful on the face of it, but hides corruption and scammers looting the people through the government or the marketplace.

Our republic was destroyed by a war fought over money. Who got it and who didn't!

"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

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Re: 10'000 Mayan Ruins
« Reply #77 on: February 14, 2026, 06:53:08 pm »
Our republic was destroyed by a war fought over money. Who got it and who didn't!
Yep. That was the demarcation line between "These United States" and "The United States", a distinction many just don't get.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

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Re: 10'000 Mayan Ruins
« Reply #78 on: February 14, 2026, 07:00:52 pm »
Yep. That was the demarcation line between "These United States" and "The United States", a distinction many just don't get.

Most of those people have no idea as to the true history surrounding that sad event.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

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Re: 10'000 Mayan Ruins
« Reply #79 on: February 17, 2026, 10:26:31 am »
[...]


Before I go forward, I want to apologize for being so late, coming back around to this reply... Your post is excellent, and deserved to be carried forward... I wanted some time to chew on my reply, and even clipped your post out of the forum and into a text editor - Something I used to do all the time around here, but haven't felt the need for some years.

Anyhow, turns out I no longer have the highlight file I must have used for my favorite editor (ConText) that made editing big forum replies such a breeze... After searching high and low, I finally determined I must have written a custom highlight file... So I wandered off to do that for a while... Then a magnificent birthday party and a whole bunch of good food got in the way, and here we are... With me kludging it out in the normal way instead.

But the needful thing to remember in my reply (and always in my replies to you) is that my criticisms should always be taken as 'present company excepted'. I hold you to be of the highest honor, and your work (and assoc. accreditation) to be of the highest caliber. You're a friend of mine.

Quote
Different lanes. Piltdown man was a biological fraud, presented as a fossil, likely for fame and pecuniary exploitation (Come see the home of Piltdown Man, stay at the Cave Inn, and eat at the Fire Pit...). It played on the Darwinian fad of the times, and met a cadre hungry for confirmation of theories that made them feel superior, intellectually (AKA, 'ripe' marks). They wanted to believe.


Sorta but not sorta... Same thing in an entirely different era. I could just as easy point to such luminaries as Newton or Davinci just as easily.

The problem is that science - true science - Always requires a benefactor. The scientist never has the money necessary to perform his tests and prove his theories. So a benefactor must nearly always underwrite his endeavors.

Doesn't matter where you look along the long and storied past It's always the same. Now, sometimes that's a true fit. Oil developers and geologists somehow spring to mind... Where the practice of geology truly aids in the work required - Since the science is paid by its results, and those results directly effect the profits of the industry, the benefice of oil developers toward the field of geology makes for good science.

But a good portion of scientific discovery is couched currently in the collegiate system and the benefactor is all too often grants from the government... Or from money looking for a particular answer - And that money will get what it wants. Even if the science is good, it is still biased toward the positive, sweeping the dissenting view under the rug. And that's how you get the shoddy, politically based or industrially based science like we have now in climate science and the like. That's how you get shrinks declaring there is no difference between males and females - Even when pure common sense easily exposes the truth of it.

It has always been thus, I believe, and will never be any different.

Quote
I met Jesus in '02 when I had pneumonia, I don't need to believe, I'm convinced. I know there is a there, there. What He wanted of us is pretty basic. He spelled it out, all we have to do is practice it. The rest is just a fascinating puzzle to me, and some day, I'll get the answers as to how it all happened, not that it will really matter. 


Me too  :beer:
One dark and stormy night, I stood on a bridge and shook my fist at Yah. I told him to prove himself to me. And from that night forward, I have had nothing else in my heart than to prove the existence of God.  I chose a different path (or he did) from yours... The way of the autodidact. That's why I shun the standard fare, and look from an angle never supported by the system. But the same drive applies.

Quote
If you want to see fraud in science books, consider it is likely that neither of us will outlive all the references to Anthropognic Global Warming (rebranded "Climate Change") which was a scam foisted to sell Carbon Credits on the Midwest Carbon Exchange, said Carbon Credits purchased from farmers for a small fraction of what they would have sold for on the Exchange to virtually any industry that wanted to stay in business, had putting cap and trade policies in effect become law.  IIRC, the chief profiteers would have made trillions, and included AlGore, Morris Strong and George Soros, but it has been a while since that was going on.
Like I said, for fun and profit.


Sure. But I return to the idea that it has always been thus, all the way along. That is the point, not the incidental case.

Quote

But one way to get a guesstimate of the thickness of the old ice sheets, is isostatic rebound. The ice that's gone weighed a bit over 57 lbs/cubic foot. Since the continental crust more or less floats on the Mantle, stacking an ice sheet one mile thick on that crust will cause it to sink lower in  the mantle, just like loading a boat makes it displace more water. It sounds strange, but by studying river channels and deposits, you can get a handle on whether the crust was sinking or rising (due to the ice to the north--South down under, or even perhaps where you are) The leading edge of continental glaciation is relatively easy to pick out, the deposits are diagnostic. As the ice iceward melted, it relieved that weight on the continent, and the continent which was riding lower on the mantle rebounded (and still is rebounding in places) just like removing the cargo from a ship causes it to displace less water and ride higher. That rise causes streams to cut deeper and leave terraces behind. The guys who do this sort of calculation get a rough idea of how much weight was there, by figuring out how much weight has melted off and how much the continent has rebounded from that relief. I'll be the first to admit, it isn't precise to the inch, but within a few hundred feet or so, I think they have something.

In the meantime, there were serious geochemists out there long before Erf Day, who were taking a different approach, along with Oceanographers who had noted apparent river channels (and submarine canyons) on the Continental Shelves, which appeared to be the product of terrestrial erosion, as opposed to scouring channels from debris flows.  Yet another angle would work with the boundaries of glaciation on land, pencil in those same limits on water. Knowing the area under the ice, and how much sea levels dropped, lets you make a rough calculation of how much water would have to be trapped in the ice sheets to get that much sea level drop, and with that, a thickness.

I'd wager there is something that could be done with trapped water in sediments, too, comparing salinity which may or may not produce an estimate of how much water was removed from the oceans by evaporation and deposited as ice and snow on land, leaving water in the ocean basins that was more saline than usual.

There really isn't much motive I can see to game the numbers there. It's just trying to get an idea of what was.

What I wonder, as long as we are on the topic of Glaciation (Continental, more than Alpine), is what the land surface looked like before the last round of regolith vs God's Own Bulldozer.

The Missouri was believed to have flown north, not south, and now follows what was the edge of the ice sheet. The Red River of the North did (and still does) flow north, but got dammed up to form Glacial Lake Agassiz, and the sediments from that make Eastern North Dakota and the Westernmost part of Minnesota (the Red River Valley) one of the flattest places on Earth. It turns out that that old lake bottom is some incredibly fertile farmland, too. But as those lake levels changed, the beaches along the lake edge moved, sometimes miles for just a few feet of elevation. Those have been mapped, too, but it's difficult to tell whether the changes are due to more ice to the North or the Lake draining episodically.


You might get a kick out of this.
If you come across Kansas, and turn right at Denver, heading up toward here, you get into the red rocks that Colorado is so famous for. There are cuts right along the highway where you can see the rock folded like taffy. You can see the folds themselves... maybe twenty of em, all bent up every-which-way, in a single cut.

I threw a camp by one of em, right along the highway. I looked at that cut for days... Mesmerized. That's the thing I do... Wherever it takes me. Would that you had been with me there, with cut and dried answers so I could cry bullshit... That would have made for some campfire talk, I'll tell you what.  happy77 :beer:

Quote
Anyway, people like living on the beach, and where rivers come together (since water is a great way to transport most anything) and where the earlier river channels went and met, there should have been settlements in warmer times before the last (Laurentide) Glaciation.  A friend who was up by Tioga ND was drilling water wells for a living, and pulled a piece of brass our of a new hole from about 50 ft. down. For some reason, it didn't dawn on him at the time that there just should not have been any brass at that depth, and that it does not occur anywhere naturally, and it got tossed on the truck and lost. Who knows? Did something near the surface get kicked downhole? Hard to say otherwise without being able to examine it, but it invites thought. Glaciation would have either wiped away or buried any signs of previous occupation.


It occurs to me that humans could easily be wiped nearly away due to their tendency toward being by the water. How often has that happened where the river took it all away - No trace to be found... Especially across the eons, as that river dug a meander here and there, with thousands of years rubbed away by the currents.

Somewhere around here, I have a very dainty gold necklace with strange writing on it, that came from around the 175' mark in a water well. That's the kind of thing 'science' won't even look at. A single OOPART like that can defy their entire world. If you ask me, those are the things that matter, that speak to their error.

Quote
In the interglacials before the laurentide sheet, my archaeology professor back in college pointed out that there were times when the corridor from Asia was open, just much earlier than the presumed peri-Clovis migration event. He postulated (like a good heretic, one of the reasons I liked him) that humans came here in waves, as climate and geography allowed, and the first wave was likely somewhere close to 32,000 years before present.

He also noted that the facial features of the southern South Americans were notably different from the MesoAmerican tribes (Aztec, Olmec, for instance), who differed from the Natives of our Northern Plains, and elsewhere in what became the US and Canada.

Sure, that might be an artifact based on cultural tastes for what constitutes attractiveness, or tribal constraints on subsequent procreation, but it also raises the possibility of distinct populations coming over and just sticking more or less together, and getting pushed further south by new arrivals. Immigration only came pretty much from one direction--unless the seas had been conquered long before Columbus, Henry the Navigator, Vespucci, and Magellan came along.

All fun to speculate about.

I have always held that clovis culture, and probably the denisovan culture too, came from the east, not the west. It is self evident in the Iroquois and Cherokee peoples, stretching all the way to the western shore of the Great Lakes (The greater Cree nation) All those folks have caucasians deep in their past.

Yeah... It's fun stuff.