Author Topic: The Hill: Bannon: Graham should be arrested if he keeps ‘stirring it up’ in Ukraine  (Read 2880 times)

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Offline cato potatoe

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Getting tired of all the Ukraine squabbling here.

If there is no negotiated agreement, things will drag on until Putin/Russia has had enough and uses a tactical-sized nuke on Kiev. That ought to end things pretty quickly.

Things won't go well for Russia in the court of "world opinion" afterwards, but that and $3 will buy you a medium-sized coffee at Dunkin' these days.

Sorry if you don't like this post.

Maybe.  The drone strike was a major escalation, and nobody seems to understand that Putin's response will be devastating.  He has no choice.

Neocons like Lindsey Graham are similar to the DC elites who stocked their carriages with sandwiches & champagne, and drove to a hill overlooking the first battle of Bull Run.  They had planned a nice little "watch party" picnic.  When things got a little too entertaining, they clogged the roads back to DC.

Online Hoodat

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Maybe.  The drone strike was a major escalation, and nobody seems to understand that Putin's response will be devastating.  He has no choice.

What's Putin gonna do?  Invade their country?  Rain missiles on their homes, schools, and hospitals?  Target their civilians out on the streets?  Execute them?  Level their cities?  Kidnap their children?

Oh, wait .  .  .
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Online Hoodat

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Here's your escalation:

Vovchansk

If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Online Hoodat

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August 2014:

This was five months AFTER Russia invaded Ukraine.  But then you knew that already.

So again, how did Lindsey Graham violate the Logan Act?   Show me where he negotiated with the Ukrainian government on behalf of the United States.  Please be specific.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Online MeganC

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All you've done is to give Russia the excuse for lobbing a handful of tactical nukes.  Keep playing stupid games, keep winning stupid prizes.  If your dream is to kill all Ukrainians, your war plan may finally be on track.

If Russia uses nukes on Ukraine then every country in Europe will want nukes so they can immolate Russia if they need to. And then Russia can kiss off ever having sanctions lifted.

And frankly it will be a case for the world to nuke Russia first.
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Offline cato potatoe

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What's Putin gonna do?  Invade their country?  Rain missiles on their homes, schools, and hospitals?  Target their civilians out on the streets?  Execute them?  Level their cities?  Kidnap their children?

We don't know the scale of the response, but it will have to be enough to satiate the angry/scared people in Russia.  There is plenty of real estate to destroy.  As Putin sees a threat to Russia's nuclear capability, his focus may shift from a regional conquest to wholesale invasion/occupation of Kyiv and regime change.  And in the meantime, europe will have a growing flood of refugees.

Offline DB

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We don't know the scale of the response, but it will have to be enough to satiate the angry/scared people in Russia.  There is plenty of real estate to destroy.  As Putin sees a threat to Russia's nuclear capability, his focus may shift from a regional conquest to wholesale invasion/occupation of Kyiv and regime change.  And in the meantime, europe will have a growing flood of refugees.

Putin isn't holding back some magical capability other than nukes. He's already shot his wad and it fell short. Even if he conscripts more people he doesn't have the weapons to effectively arm them with.

Offline Timber Rattler

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Putin isn't holding back some magical capability other than nukes. He's already shot his wad and it fell short. Even if he conscripts more people he doesn't have the weapons to effectively arm them with.

Yep, and it's an open question whether his nukes even work after thirty years in mothballs.
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Offline DefiantMassRINO

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I suspect Putin will coerce Belarus and Transnistria to open new fronts against Ukraine.

The Russians are running out of North Korean cannon fodder.

They had to bring in new cannon fodder from Iran - the same Iran that Putin will help us negotiate a nuclear deal with.

Who knows, Putin may even demand Serbian conscripts.  Putin's going to call in all his favors from all over the world ... Cubans, Nicaraguans, Venezuelans, etc.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2025, 01:23:26 pm by DefiantMassRINO »
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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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This was five months AFTER Russia invaded Ukraine. 

Nope.  Here's a quick review ---  In 2013, the US rapidly expanded and intensified its interference in Ukraine's politics, including its national election, key to the political chaos the US was fanning....

Quote
But McCain’s actions were a model of diplomatic restraint compared to the conduct of Victoria Nuland, the assistant secretary of state for European and Eurasian Affairs. As Ukraine’s political crisis deepened, Nuland and her subordinates became more brazen in favoring the anti-Yanukovych demonstrators. Nuland noted in a speech to the U.S.-Ukraine Foundation on December 13, 2013, that she had traveled to Ukraine three times in the weeks following the start of the demonstrations. Visiting the Maidan on December 5, she handed out cookies to demonstrators and expressed support for their cause.

The extent of the Obama administration’s meddling in Ukraine’s politics was breathtaking. Russian intelligence intercepted and leaked to the international media a Nuland telephone call in which she and U.S. ambassador to Ukraine Geoffey Pyatt discussed in detail their preferences for specific personnel in a post-Yanukovych government. The U.S‑favored candidates included Arseniy Yatsenyuk, the man who became prime minister once Yanukovych was ousted from power. During the telephone call, Nuland stated enthusiastically that “Yats is the guy” who would do the best job.

Nuland and Pyatt were engaged in such planning at a time when Yanukovych was still Ukraine’s lawful president. It was startling to have diplomatic representatives of a foreign country—and a country that routinely touts the need to respect democratic processes and the sovereignty of other nations—to be scheming about removing an elected government and replacing it with officials meriting U.S. approval.

The two diplomats also were prepared to escalate the already extensive U.S. involvement in Ukraine’s political turbulence. Pyatt stated bluntly that “we want to try to get somebody with an international personality to come out here and help to midwife this thing [the political transition].” Nuland clearly had Vice President Joe Biden in mind for that role. Noting that the vice president’s national security adviser was in direct contact with her, Nuland related that she told him “probably tomorrow for an atta-boy and to get the details to stick. So Biden’s willing.”


More:  https://www.cato.org/commentary/americas-ukraine-hypocrisy


After the successful election interference and resulting chaos, the US turned its attention to fermenting an Eastern European civil war --- which was also none of our damn business, and still isn't --- into a Western proxy war with Russia.  ICYMI:

The civil war began in 2014, after the election outcome, with Ukranians in Crimea and the Donbas voting for independence from Kiev and aligning themselves with Russia.  The 2022 escalation of this conflict into a Russian invasion, three wasted years and a million dead happened only with the six year special nurturing of Western warmongers that was initially led by: Victoria Nuland, Geoffey Pyatt, John McCain, Lindsey Graham and Alexander Vindman.

Online Hoodat

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We don't know the scale of the response, but it will have to be enough to satiate the angry/scared people in Russia.

The people of Russia have not been told that their current leadership just lost one-third of their strategic bomber capacity to a bunch of "criminals and drug addicts".
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Online Hoodat

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This was five months AFTER Russia invaded Ukraine. 

Nope.  Here's a quick review --- 

It is a historical fact that your August 2014 is five months AFTER Russia invaded.  Why do you keep posting lies?
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Online Hoodat

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Oh, and still waiting for you to show me where Lindsey Graham violated the Logan Act.   Let's see where he negotiated with the Ukrainian government on behalf of the United States.  Or was that a lie, too?
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline Smokin Joe

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Now, so does Russia. 

See how stupid war games are?
What Ukraine is doing with deep drone strikes against military targets in Russia is arguably more justifiable than the bombing campaigns carried on during WWII, primarily because it is more precise and kills far fewer civilians (unlike the relatively indiscriminate Russian attacks on Ukraine).

What WWII's bombing and Ukraine's drone attacks have in common is the objective of the destruction of manufacturing capability, of supply routes, and of war materiel.

In both cases, the one these attacks are/were directed at is the military that started the war through aggression and attempts to seize territory and resources.

Any time Russia wants to withdraw to pre-invasion borders, cease hostilities, and pay reparations, they can likely have peace.
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Offline DefiantMassRINO

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Has Ukraine intentionally targeted maternity hospitals in Russia, as the Putin has done in Ukraine?

The Ukrainians want to preserve the integrity of their internationally recognized 1991 borders.

Putin wants to conquer Ukraine and erase all evidenece and memory of Ukraine, its people, its language, its culture, and its history.  Putin's war is a war of annihilation.

Putin is a mass-murdering psychopath who hides behind the veneers of defending Russian minorities outside the Russian Federation, and proselytizing Russian Orthodox Christianity.
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Offline berdie

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Maybe.  The drone strike was a major escalation, and nobody seems to understand that Putin's response will be devastating.  He has no choice.

Neocons like Lindsey Graham are similar to the DC elites who stocked their carriages with sandwiches & champagne, and drove to a hill overlooking the first battle of Bull Run.  They had planned a nice little "watch party" picnic.  When things got a little too entertaining, they clogged the roads back to DC.




The drone strike may have been an escalation...but tell what one does when fighting a war to protect your country? You take a good offense, imho. You don't worry about what your opponent may do.

Offline berdie

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Now, so does Russia. 

See how stupid war games are?




I as well wish the world could sing in perfect harmony. But it  never has in the past, not today, and won't in the future.

Humans are imperfect creatures that lust after the land and wealth of others.

I had no idea you were a pacifist.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Any time Russia wants to withdraw to pre-invasion borders, cease hostilities, and pay reparations, they can likely have peace.

So now a million dead from this incursion isn't enough for you.  Now you're rooting for a reincarnation of the Treaty of Versailles. ---- Yeah, you  sure understand history.  :whistle:

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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I as well wish the world could sing in perfect harmony. But it  never has in the past, not today, and won't in the future.

Humans are imperfect creatures that lust after the land and wealth of others.

I had no idea you were a pacifist.

You're running out of Russians and Ukrainians to kill @berdie   Who do you plan on tossing into the line of fire next?  Warmongers typically have a plan.  Care to share it?

Offline berdie

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You're running out of Russians and Ukrainians to kill @berdie   Who do you plan on tossing into the line of fire next?  Warmongers typically have a plan.  Care to share it?



Sure, I'll be happy to share @Right_in_Virginia .  My plan is for the warmongering Russians to get their fannies out of another country and keep within their own borders. Pretty simple plan that will work.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Sure, I'll be happy to share @Right_in_Virginia .  My plan is for the warmongering Russians to get their fannies out of another country and keep within their own borders. Pretty simple plan that will work.

I think this ⬆️  could be the goal @berdie ... A plan would include details on how the goal's going to be reached. 

With the ongoing escalation, it seems a good time to revisit the actual plan in terms of blood and treasure.  (But, I suspect I'm alone in this opinion  happy77 )

Online Hoodat

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So now a million dead from this incursion isn't enough for you.

You mean Putin, right?  Is a million dead enough for him?  Because he has the power to put a stop to it any time he chooses.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

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Online Hoodat

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You're running out of Russians and Ukrainians to kill @berdie 

You mean Putin, right?  Putin is running out of Russians and Ukrainians to kill.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Online Hoodat

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I think this ⬆️  could be the goal @berdie ... A plan would include details on how the goal's going to be reached.

Here's the details.  All Russian troops should exit Ukraine and retreat back to Russia.  War over.  No more death.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Don't worry RiV, we have freedom of speech in the US, unlike it Russia. Lyndsay will be fine.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Don't worry RiV, we have freedom of speech in the US, unlike it Russia. Lyndsay will be fine.

Pro tip:  Educate yourself before trying to sound clever @Weird Tolkienish Figure

The Logan Act, a federal statute enacted in 1799, prohibits U.S. citizens from engaging in unauthorized diplomacy with foreign governments, particularly when such communication is intended to influence foreign policy or dispute resolutions with the United States. The core principle of the Act is to safeguard the President's authority as the sole representative of the United States in foreign affairs.




« Last Edit: June 06, 2025, 10:21:47 am by Right_in_Virginia »

Online MeganC

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We don't know the scale of the response, but it will have to be enough to satiate the angry/scared people in Russia.  There is plenty of real estate to destroy.  As Putin sees a threat to Russia's nuclear capability, his focus may shift from a regional conquest to wholesale invasion/occupation of Kyiv and regime change.  And in the meantime, europe will have a growing flood of refugees.

No one with any sense believes any of these petulant and pathetic Russian threats anymore. They've had over three years to win their ten day war to conquer Ukraine and Moldova and for the most part they're no further ahead now than they were in 2022.

And at the cost of almost one million Russian dead and injured.

Russia is not going to conquer Ukraine. They can't. Deal with it.
RUSSIA MUST BE DESTROYED!!!

Online MeganC

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Don't worry RiV, we have freedom of speech in the US, unlike it Russia. Lyndsay will be fine.

Freedom of Speech has been in danger the past four years. It is very fragile and should not be taken for granted.

It no longer exists in the UK where they have 'freedom of speech' but no freedom after speech.
RUSSIA MUST BE DESTROYED!!!

Online Hoodat

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Pro tip:  Educate yourself before trying to sound clever @Weird Tolkienish Figure

The Logan Act, a federal statute enacted in 1799, prohibits U.S. citizens from engaging in unauthorized diplomacy with foreign governments, particularly when such communication is intended to influence foreign policy or dispute resolutions with the United States. The core principle of the Act is to safeguard the President's authority as the sole representative of the United States in foreign affairs.

So where did Lindsey Graham violate the Logan Act.   Show me where he negotiated with the Ukrainian government on behalf of the United States.  Prove that you're not a serial liar.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline LMAO

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So where did Lindsey Graham violate the Logan Act.   Show me where he negotiated with the Ukrainian government on behalf of the United States.  Prove that you're not a serial liar.

@Hoodat

You’re not going to get an answer from that particular poster.? It’s been a pattern of hers. Make accusations but never backs them up
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Offline cato potatoe

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No one with any sense believes any of these petulant and pathetic Russian threats anymore. They've had over three years to win their ten day war to conquer Ukraine and Moldova and for the most part they're no further ahead now than they were in 2022.

And at the cost of almost one million Russian dead and injured.

Russia is not going to conquer Ukraine. They can't. Deal with it.

I'm skeptical of what is being reported with regard to Russian casualties, military capabilities, economy, morale, etc.  Just a couple of years ago, they were planning to roll through eastern europe, supposedly.  Our government lies to us constantly, as do the various think tanks and the emotionally incontinent western newsmedia.  You have to remember that Trump is Putin's fifth president, he operates on a different timetable, and the Russians have a much higher pain tolerance.

Offline DCPatriot

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I'm skeptical of what is being reported with regard to Russian casualties, military capabilities, economy, morale, etc.  Just a couple of years ago, they were planning to roll through eastern europe, supposedly.  Our government lies to us constantly, as do the various think tanks and the emotionally incontinent western newsmedia.  You have to remember that Trump is Putin's fifth president, he operates on a different timetable, and the Russians have a much higher pain tolerance.

As my original prediction of it being settled in a month or less...I could point out that the territorial maps of 'conquered' Ukrainian States haven't much changed in all the years this has been allowed to continue for years.

But, I won't.

Terrible waste of human life.  Horrific experience for an entire generation...or TWO if thru a parent's eyes.

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Online GtHawk

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What Ukraine is doing with deep drone strikes against military targets in Russia is arguably more justifiable than the bombing campaigns carried on during WWII, primarily because it is more precise and kills far fewer civilians (unlike the relatively indiscriminate Russian attacks on Ukraine).

What WWII's bombing and Ukraine's drone attacks have in common is the objective of the destruction of manufacturing capability, of supply routes, and of war materiel.

In both cases, the one these attacks are/were directed at is the military that started the war through aggression and attempts to seize territory and resources.

Any time Russia wants to withdraw to pre-invasion borders, cease hostilities, and pay reparations, they can likely have peace.
🤔 well if you exclude Dresden, Hamburg, Berlin, Tokyo….

Yes I know, retaliatory tit for tat.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2025, 02:43:08 pm by GtHawk »

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Sure, I'll be happy to share @Right_in_Virginia .  My plan is for the warmongering Russians to get their fannies out of another country and keep within their own borders. Pretty simple plan that will work.
Hell and damnation @berdie, I had no idea you personally killed all those people, remind me to never upset you.

Online GtHawk

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Freedom of Speech has been in danger the past four years. It is very fragile and should not be taken for granted.

It no longer exists in the UK where they have 'freedom of speech' but no freedom after speech.
Freedom of speech is not enshrined in as a constitutional right in England as it is here, which is why the current fascist government  in England can persecute the public for non government approved speach.

Offline berdie

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Hell and damnation @berdie, I had no idea you personally killed all those people, remind me to never upset you.


 wink777

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Freedom of Speech has been in danger the past four years. It is very fragile and should not be taken for granted.

It no longer exists in the UK where they have 'freedom of speech' but no freedom after speech.

Agreed. My point still stands.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Agreed. My point still stands.

But it doesn't apply here.

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Don't worry RiV, we have freedom of speech in the US, unlike it Russia. Lyndsay will be fine.

Russia has freedom of speech. They just don't have freedom after speech.
RUSSIA MUST BE DESTROYED!!!