Author Topic: JUST IN: President Trump and Vice President JD Vance excoriate President Zelensky during heated meet  (Read 32131 times)

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Offline DB

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In you hypothetical how are you going to force this guy out if there are no police to back you up and you have no guns.

I agree that Russia is the aggressor and has done horrific things, but how do you get it to stop? Ukraine has gone from 42 million to 25 million people. They don't have the forces to drive the Russians out. We sure aren't going to send our forces over there and get into a fight with a country that has 7,000 nuclear missiles.

Russia is bleeding to death and Ukraine is willing to put their lives on the line to push them out. They need the tools to do it. For me, that isn't asking too much to help provide the tools. Russia's entire GDP is less than 7% of the wests. They can be bankrupted without all that much pain for the west to encourage them to leave. Russia is doing it to themselves and could pull out of this at any time to stop the bleeding. It is their war of choice. It is Ukraine's war of survival.

Offline libertybele

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Maybe you don’t have the President of the f_cking United States of America kissing the ass of the aggressor and pushing the innocent to surrender to the evil.

...and you know that Trump is kissing Putin's arse how??  Are you privy to Trump's end game here?? 

Peace needs to come about period. The amount of lives lost is absolutely disgusting; in that you are absolutely right.

Offline Fishrrman

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I didn't watch the video, and I didn't read the whole thread.

But one thing is clear after today's events:

Zelensky is going to have no part in whatever settlement is to be made between Mr. Trump and Mr. Putin.

The Ukrainians had better figure out the way to replace this guy, and do so quickly.

Offline bilo

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Maybe you don’t have the President of the f_cking United States of America kissing the ass of the aggressor and pushing the innocent to surrender to the evil.

I don't believe you want American forces over there. If not, who has the military might to push the Russians out. The Ukrainians don't have the forces. If the war is going to end someone has to talk to Putin and give him a reason to stop.
We have a beach head. Now it's time to win the war and save the Republic.

Offline Bigun

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:amen: and a thousand more times  :amen:

He came to the Whitehouse, sat in the oval office wearing a tee shirt and casual pants, and then tried talking over the POTUS to tell him what he must do. He never expressed any gratitude to the current admn. for meeting with him, or our continued support. He didn't express any desire to at least get a ceasefire in place while they tried to work everything out. Instead, he wasted everyone's time expressing his hatred for Putin and talking about how a final deal would require American forces.

He disrespected the oval office (not even the president goes in there improperly dressed), the secretary of state, and the president himself.  Perhaps the biggest political blunder in history.
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Offline 240B

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Whether it is right or wrong, the bottom line reality is that Zelinsky managed to piss off Trump, the VP, and several members of Congress all at the same time. We can debate whether or not Zelinsky 'had a point' and was right, but that does not change the fact that what he did and how he did it was a disaster for Ukraine.
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Offline DB

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...and you know that Trump is kissing Putin's arse how??  Are you privy to Trump's end game here?? 

Peace needs to come about period. The amount of lives lost is absolutely disgusting; in that you are absolutely right.

Can't have peace when an aggressor is taking your country by force. You can call surrender peace if you want, but it is still the death of your country. Peace at any cost completely devalues life. And where is Trump's pressure on Putin to give something for "peace".

Offline bilo

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Russia is bleeding to death and Ukraine is willing to put their lives on the line to push them out. They need the tools to do it. For me, that isn't asking too much to help provide the tools. Russia's entire GDP is less than 7% of the wests. They can be bankrupted without all that much pain for the west to encourage them to leave. Russia is doing it to themselves and could pull out of this at any time to stop the bleeding. It is their war of choice. It is Ukraine's war of survival.

Ukraine has a severe manpower issue and the two attempts made to pass a draft for men 18-26 failed. Also, the young men are either hiding, or fleeing as well as a lot of other people. The population of Ukraine has fallen from 42 million to 25 million.

The tools that we are supposed to provide are draining our own defense stocks and financially the country is going through a restructuring to try and avert a debt crisis. Also, the age of globalism, where every country feeds off the USA is coming to an end. We are becoming more focused on the western  hemisphere.

At the very worst a cease fire would have given Ukraine time to reinforce their defenses.

We have a beach head. Now it's time to win the war and save the Republic.

Offline bilo

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He disrespected the oval office (not even the president goes in there improperly dressed), the secretary of state, and the president himself.  Perhaps the biggest political blunder in history.

Agreed!

He sure didn't do his people any favors.
We have a beach head. Now it's time to win the war and save the Republic.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Sen Lindsay Graham never turned his back on a war of any kind, we must feed the military/industrial complex.  We know who his major contributors to his campaign are.

From DAY ONE, I never thought of Ukraine as our ally.  In WWII, they sided more with Nazi Germany. 

Ukraine is fighting for their survival.  And the fact is, the USA has been training Ukrainians since 2014, if not before.  They were better trained in 2022 with the attack by Russia then than they were in 2014.  And while their numbers have been depleted, they have been nicely reinforced with US military equipment, depleting our own military to outfit the Ukrainians.

But I can't say how tired I am about Ukraine defending democracy when the fact is they are not.  Elections in Ukraine have been suspended.  Nothing democratic about it. 

Trump is right, prepare to settle for peace or die alone.  If Europe were to pick up in our place, it would not last long, for they get much of their equipment from the USA.  Ukraine will be forced to settle for peace and relinquish multiple things.  My view, they should be thankful.  And this could have been negotiated two years ago when Putin realized his military was spineless.

But Z's wanting US boots on the ground, he should have known Trump would balk at that.  No way!!!!!!
After the Holodomor, they sided with the one power that might keep them from being starved to death again. I can understand that, as a desperation move. That did not go well with them, but until Hitler violated the no-aggression pact he had with Stalin, they were divvying up Eastern Europe (look at Poland, for instance). Operation Barbarossa brought that alliance to an end.

I agree with the rest of your assessment. Instead of coming, hat in hand, so to speak, Zelensky started demanding things on Trump's turf, outside previously negotiated parameters. That isn't a sign of good faith, but one of contempt for the people he is asking favors of.

Now he has wished in one hand, and promptly filled the other.

Ukraine was caught in the middle.
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Offline cato potatoe

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I didn't watch the video, and I didn't read the whole thread.

But one thing is clear after today's events:

Zelensky is going to have no part in whatever settlement is to be made between Mr. Trump and Mr. Putin.

The Ukrainians had better figure out the way to replace this guy, and do so quickly.

The video is 50 minutes.  There was a lot of buildup to the parts that were being reported.  Z trashed the deal that supposedly had been finalized, spent a lot of time rehashing grievances, predicted all of Eastern Europe was next, and dismissed Vance’s suggestion of diplomacy as a solution.  Finally Trump decided he had heard enough, and I don’t blame him.  Someone besides Z has to lead Ukraine through the post war transition, it isn’t in him.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2025, 08:26:03 pm by cato potatoe »

Offline libertybele

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I didn't watch the video, and I didn't read the whole thread.

But one thing is clear after today's events:

Zelensky is going to have no part in whatever settlement is to be made between Mr. Trump and Mr. Putin.

The Ukrainians had better figure out the way to replace this guy, and do so quickly.

Exactly - they needs to replace him ASAP -- only problem is, Z declared martial law, the people have never held another election and I would anticipate that Z isn't going to step down.  My opinion anyhow.

Offline libertybele

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The video is 50 minutes.  There was a lot of buildup to the parts that were being reported.  Z trashed the deal that supposedly had been finalized, spent a lot of time rehashing grievances, predicted all of Eastern Europe was next, and dismissed Vance’s suggestion of diplomacy as a solution.  Finally Trump decided he had heard enough, and I don’t blame him. Someone besides Z has to lead Ukraine through the post war transition, it isn’t in him.

Agreed, but in the meantime the Ukrainian people will suffer even more; that is what President Trump was trying to avoid. VP Vance tried explaining that to Z as well.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2025, 08:45:03 pm by libertybele »

Offline mystery-ak

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Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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After the Holodomor, they sided with the one power that might keep them from being starved to death again. I can understand that, as a desperation move. That did not go well with them, but until Hitler violated the no-aggression pact he had with Stalin, they were divvying up Eastern Europe (look at Poland, for instance). Operation Barbarossa brought that alliance to an end.

I agree with the rest of your assessment. Instead of coming, hat in hand, so to speak, Zelensky started demanding things on Trump's turf, outside previously negotiated parameters. That isn't a sign of good faith, but one of contempt for the people he is asking favors of.


What did Zelensky demand exactly? I keep hearing this over and over, no specifics.

Offline libertybele

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Can't have peace when an aggressor is taking your country by force. You can call surrender peace if you want, but it is still the death of your country. Peace at any cost completely devalues life. And where is Trump's pressure on Putin to give something for "peace".

Again -- how do we know that Trump hasn't or isn't putting any pressure on Putin?? With Z basically giving the U.S. the middle finger, Putin will now proceed forward likely at a much greater pace.  I don't see Europe stopping him, as far as I know they haven't stepped up to the plate to help him. 

Offline libertybele

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What did Zelensky demand exactly? I keep hearing this over and over, no specifics.

I've read; U.S. boots on the ground in Ukraine.

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Exactly - they needs to replace him ASAP -- only problem is, Z declared martial law, the people have never held another election and I would anticipate that Z isn't going to step down.  My opinion anyhow.

He declared martial law... he was invaded? Should he have the police arrest and book every invading russian soldier? And try them all by court? We did the same thing in the Civil War.

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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I've read; U.S. boots on the ground in Ukraine.

Not in the transcripts I read. Not even close.

Offline libertybele

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Not in the transcripts I read. Not even close.

Trying to find where I read it .... at any rate-- there is indication that Trump had spoken to the UK to get assistance in making a peace deal -- however, Z's actions today perhaps squelched that plan  as well.

U.K. Prime Minister Keir Starmer says his country is ready to put "boots on the ground" to support peace deal in Ukraine

........According to Starmer, he and Trump discussed a plan to reach a just peace "that Ukraine will help shape," and that is "backed by strength to stop (Russian President Vladimir) Putin (from) coming back for more...............

https://www.yahoo.com/news/uk-ready-put-boots-ground-070756855.html

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-uk-keir-starmer-ukraine-war-russia-europe-tariffs/

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Zelenskyy made the mistake all theater kids make... he started to believe his role to be reality. Read that somewhere earlier and completely agree.

Putin will not agree to give up any territory. NATO doesn't want Ukraine in and The EU won't send troops in.

This is Zelenskyy's chance to bow out as a "defiant defender of Ukrainian sovereignty" and allow for the deal that must be made to happen, in order to buy enough time to prep Ukraine against future Russian attacks. Vladimir can't live forever. 

Negotiations are ongoing, even after the dust up, but Zelenskyy just f#cked himself royally. Crimea will go to Vlad who will also keep all area already under his control, AND we will get the mineral rights.

Per an unnamed WH source... "It's a s#it sandwich... but Ukraine is going to have to eat it."

They can't win.

P.S. Ukrainian comedian got taken to the shed by a Hillbilly lawyer!
« Last Edit: February 28, 2025, 09:20:51 pm by Luis Gonzalez »
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Offline libertybele

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Not in the transcripts I read. Not even close.

Though this is being reported by "The Hill" -- here is the rundown.  Quite frankly, I haven't liked Z's attitude toward the U.S. for awhile - begging Biden and Congress for more money and more money and  more money making it know that if they didn't give him money Putin would win -- IMHO he in essence had the same attitude in the meeting today --a expecting more rather than a than you. 

Yes I realize Biden & Company siphoned off some money but I believe Z did as well and he doesn't want to see his cash cow ending.  Some rare earth minerals in exchange for U.S. support -Z told Rubio he was going to sign paperwork and then decided not to -- he knew that before the meeting, but waited until he got in front of the press.  Wrong move.

Anyhow ... I remain Team Trump and Team USA on this issue. Trump was standing up for our country and the American people.

Prayers up for the people of Ukraine -- they need them now more than ever.

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5170062-trump-zelensky-meeting-derail/

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Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Since when is it OK for the political leader to make an agreement with SOSUS, go to the Whitehouse to sign and celebrate the deal and instead start negotiating again on camera? NO president should or would tolerate such as that!
suspicious that EU leaders immediately released talking points supporting Ukraine. EU is pissed they have to divert $ to military as US reduces its NATO $, and also that the US will be imposing tariffs to match what EU charges us.

This was a setup from word go and Trump was right to throw him out and sever relationship with Ukraine.

Z thought he could roll Trump like Z rolled Biden

He chose poorly.
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Offline libertybele

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suspicious that EU leaders immediately released talking points supporting Ukraine. EU is pissed they have to divert $ to military as US reduces its NATO $, and also that the US will be imposing tariffs to match what EU charges us.

This was a setup from word go and Trump was right to throw him out and sever relationship with Ukraine.

Z thought he could roll Trump like Z rolled Biden

He chose poorly.

 :yowsa: