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Offline mystery-ak

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Zelensky willing to give up presidency in exchange for Ukraine Nato membership
« on: February 23, 2025, 01:26:39 pm »
Zelensky willing to give up presidency in exchange for Ukraine Nato membership
23 February 2025

Summary

    Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky says he would give up his presidency in exchange for Ukraine Nato membership, in response to a question asked at a news conference

    He adds that it is not his "dream" to be president for a decade, and he would leave his position if it led to peace for Ukraine

    Zelesnky's comments come after Russia launched a large-scale drone attack across Ukraine, the day before the third anniversary of the war

    Ukraine's foreign minister says "no one should trust Putin's words. Look at his actions instead"

    Last night saw a Russian drone assault like no other, writes BBC's Ukraine correspondent James Waterhouse

more
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/c8j0yje9pr3t
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Offline Fishrrman

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Re: Zelensky willing to give up presidency in exchange for Ukraine Nato membership
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2025, 04:51:03 pm »
"Zelensky willing to give up presidency in exchange for Ukraine Nato membership"

Heh.

Sumthin' tells me that if he were to do this, there would be bank accounts full of money waiting for him in return.

But abdicate for free...?
Sorry, don't believe it.
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Offline rustynail

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Re: Zelensky willing to give up presidency in exchange for Ukraine Nato membership
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2025, 05:02:14 pm »
Best we can do is hang you from a lamp post.
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Offline catfish1957

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Re: Zelensky willing to give up presidency in exchange for Ukraine Nato membership
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2025, 05:04:10 pm »
Show of hands of those who trust Zellinsky on this....   :thud:
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Offline verga

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Re: Zelensky willing to give up presidency in exchange for Ukraine Nato membership
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2025, 05:30:17 pm »
Quote from: Fishrrman on February 23, 2025, 04:51:03 pm
"Zelensky willing to give up presidency in exchange for Ukraine Nato membership"

Heh.

Sumthin' tells me that if he were to do this, there would be bank accounts full of money waiting for him in return.

But abdicate for free...?
Sorry, don't believe it.
Thank you, no more calls we have a winner.  :yowsa:
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Offline GtHawk

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Re: Zelensky willing to give up presidency in exchange for Ukraine Nato membership
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2025, 05:48:43 pm »
Quote from: Fishrrman on February 23, 2025, 04:51:03 pm
"Zelensky willing to give up presidency in exchange for Ukraine Nato membership"

Heh.

Sumthin' tells me that if he were to do this, there would be bank accounts full of money waiting for him in return.

But abdicate for free...?
Sorry, don't believe it.
And of course Russia would greet Ukraine’s entry into NATO with congratulations and a big fruit basket….NOT!
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Offline libertybele

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Re: Zelensky willing to give up presidency in exchange for Ukraine Nato membership
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2025, 05:58:35 pm »
Quote from: catfish1957 on February 23, 2025, 05:04:10 pm
Show of hands of those who trust Zellinsky on this....   :thud:

Show of hands who trusted Z in the first place!  :thud:
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Offline Timber Rattler

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Re: Zelensky willing to give up presidency in exchange for Ukraine Nato membership
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2025, 06:35:04 pm »
Quote from: libertybele on February 23, 2025, 05:58:35 pm
Show of hands who trusted Z in the first place!  :thud:

Show of hands who trusts Putin around here.

 *****rollingeyes*****
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Offline Timber Rattler

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Re: Zelensky willing to give up presidency in exchange for Ukraine Nato membership
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2025, 06:35:29 pm »
Quote from: rustynail on February 23, 2025, 05:02:14 pm
Best we can do is hang you from a lamp post.

Why?
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Offline Kamaji

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Re: Zelensky willing to give up presidency in exchange for Ukraine Nato membership
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2025, 06:40:39 pm »
Considering that - if he had these imagined millions of ill-gotten gains - he could have scooted off to the beach when this mess all started, but didn't, the only person who can be believed here is Zelensky.

The Russians are clearly liars - and worse - and Donald Trump has made Neville Chamberlain look like a man with an iron spine and the wisdom of Solomon.
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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Zelensky willing to give up presidency in exchange for Ukraine Nato membership
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2025, 06:51:37 pm »
It occurs to me that the play here may not be as obvious as it seems. I hope so anyway.
Putin is not popular in his own country, is losing soldiers and money and appears to be moving further under the ChiCom sphere of influence.
Is Trump playing Putin in an attempt to pull him away from the ChiCom sphere and (even marginally) bringing him closer to ours?
Russia won’t give anything back and Zelenskyy won’t stop trying to do it.
The game’s afoot I believe.
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Offline Kamaji

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Re: Zelensky willing to give up presidency in exchange for Ukraine Nato membership
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2025, 06:52:29 pm »
Quote from: Luis Gonzalez on February 23, 2025, 06:51:37 pm
It occurs to me that the play here may not be as obvious as it seems. I hope so anyway.
Putin is not popular in his own country, is losing soldiers and money and appears to be moving further under the ChiCom sphere of influence.
Is Trump playing Putin in an attempt to pull him away from the ChiCom sphere and (even marginally) bringing him closer to ours?
Russia won’t give anything back and Zelenskyy won’t stop trying to do it.
The game’s afoot I believe.

Rather doubt it.
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Offline Timber Rattler

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Re: Zelensky willing to give up presidency in exchange for Ukraine Nato membership
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2025, 07:06:31 pm »
Quote from: Luis Gonzalez on February 23, 2025, 06:51:37 pm

Is Trump playing Putin in an attempt to pull him away from the ChiCom sphere and (even marginally) bringing him closer to ours?


Why in the hell would Trump or anybody want to bring a murderous thug like Putin closer to our "sphere?"  Do you actually admire that lying, invading dictator?
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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Zelensky willing to give up presidency in exchange for Ukraine Nato membership
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2025, 07:30:42 pm »
Quote from: Timber Rattler on February 23, 2025, 07:06:31 pm
Why in the hell would Trump or anybody want to bring a murderous thug like Putin closer to our "sphere?"  Do you actually admire that lying, invading dictator?
Because away from ours they empower a greater enemy.
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Offline Timber Rattler

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Re: Zelensky willing to give up presidency in exchange for Ukraine Nato membership
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2025, 07:34:56 pm »
Quote from: Luis Gonzalez on February 23, 2025, 07:30:42 pm
Because away from ours they empower a greater enemy.

Utter nonsense.  Under that logic, Churchill should have gotten closer to Hitler after he signed the Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact to pull Nazi Germany away from the Soviet Union.
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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Zelensky willing to give up presidency in exchange for Ukraine Nato membership
« Reply #15 on: February 23, 2025, 08:26:40 pm »
Quote from: Timber Rattler on February 23, 2025, 07:34:56 pm
Utter nonsense.  Under that logic, Churchill should have gotten closer to Hitler after he signed the Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact to pull Nazi Germany away from the Soviet Union.

He got closer to Stalin to fight Hitler.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2025, 08:29:11 pm by Luis Gonzalez »
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Zelensky willing to give up presidency in exchange for Ukraine Nato membership
« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2025, 08:05:06 am »
Quote from: Luis Gonzalez on February 23, 2025, 06:51:37 pm
It occurs to me that the play here may not be as obvious as it seems. I hope so anyway.
Putin is not popular in his own country, is losing soldiers and money and appears to be moving further under the ChiCom sphere of influence.
Is Trump playing Putin in an attempt to pull him away from the ChiCom sphere and (even marginally) bringing him closer to ours?
Russia won’t give anything back and Zelenskyy won’t stop trying to do it.
The game’s afoot I believe.
You may have a point. A Russian ChiCom partnership, although unstable and only exercised as a proxy thing with the North Koreans, could be trouble of a different nature. When there are only two, the back and forth will be friendly or adversarial. When there are three, inevitably two will join against a third. This isn't the Three Musketeers (and they were all on the same side, anyway).
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Offline verga

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Re: Zelensky willing to give up presidency in exchange for Ukraine Nato membership
« Reply #17 on: February 24, 2025, 02:55:56 pm »
Quote from: Luis Gonzalez on February 23, 2025, 06:51:37 pm
It occurs to me that the play here may not be as obvious as it seems. I hope so anyway.
Putin is not popular in his own country, is losing soldiers and money and appears to be moving further under the ChiCom sphere of influence.
Is Trump playing Putin in an attempt to pull him away from the ChiCom sphere and (even marginally) bringing him closer to ours?
Russia won’t give anything back and Zelenskyy won’t stop trying to do it.
The game’s afoot I believe.
Nailed it!
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If God invented marathons to keep people from doing anything more stupid, the triathlon must have taken him completely by surprise.

Offline verga

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Re: Zelensky willing to give up presidency in exchange for Ukraine Nato membership
« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2025, 02:57:17 pm »
Quote from: Timber Rattler on February 23, 2025, 07:06:31 pm
Why in the hell would Trump or anybody want to bring a murderous thug like Putin closer to our "sphere?"  Do you actually admire that lying, invading dictator?
Would you rather he be marginally dealing with us or considerably be dealing with the ChiComs?
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In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
�More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly.�-Woody Allen
If God invented marathons to keep people from doing anything more stupid, the triathlon must have taken him completely by surprise.

Offline Timber Rattler

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Re: Zelensky willing to give up presidency in exchange for Ukraine Nato membership
« Reply #19 on: February 25, 2025, 09:33:29 am »
Quote from: verga on February 24, 2025, 02:57:17 pm
Would you rather he be marginally dealing with us or considerably be dealing with the ChiComs?

I'd rather be thumping on both.
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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Zelensky willing to give up presidency in exchange for Ukraine Nato membership
« Reply #20 on: February 25, 2025, 10:25:12 am »
Quote from: Smokin Joe on February 24, 2025, 08:05:06 am
You may have a point. A Russian ChiCom partnership, although unstable and only exercised as a proxy thing with the North Koreans, could be trouble of a different nature. When there are only two, the back and forth will be friendly or adversarial. When there are three, inevitably two will join against a third. This isn't the Three Musketeers (and they were all on the same side, anyway).

I think Trump's policy North Pole doesn't allow for open-ended, emotion-based stances such as Biden's "as long as it takes" position on Ukraine when our nation is $37T in debt.
I don't think that he's concerned about Zelenskyy when he's busy blowing up Putin's ego by saying crazy shit like "Ukraine started it". He just wants the war to end so that we stop bleeding dollars and the threat of it expanding into a global conflict ends, and it's up to Putin, not Zelenskyy to stop it.
Trump is wielding the power of the US economy as a weapon and I love it.
Back in the old FR days, I made the argument that the next "war" would be fought with dollars and our voracious consumerism as weapon.
It may be happening as we speak.
Very cool.
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Offline Timber Rattler

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Re: Zelensky willing to give up presidency in exchange for Ukraine Nato membership
« Reply #21 on: February 25, 2025, 10:49:36 am »
Oh, standing up to evil, invasion, and mass killings is "emotion based," eh?  I wonder what Reagan would say about that?

So I guess Conservatives are A-OK with murderous thugs like Putin as long as it doesn't cost us too much, right? 

$$$$$ uber alles!
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Offline catfish1957

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Re: Zelensky willing to give up presidency in exchange for Ukraine Nato membership
« Reply #22 on: February 25, 2025, 10:52:22 am »
Quote from: Timber Rattler on February 25, 2025, 10:49:36 am
Oh, standing up to evil, invasion, and mass killings is "emotion based," eh?  I wonder what Reagan would say about that?

So I guess Conservatives are A-OK with murderous thugs like Putin as long as it doesn't cost us too much, right? 

$$$$$ uber alles!

I'd agree totally, if we were a financially sound nation, but as a reminder we are $37T in debt.  You okay, with the limitless credit card, blank check approach?  I'm not.
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Offline Timber Rattler

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Re: Zelensky willing to give up presidency in exchange for Ukraine Nato membership
« Reply #23 on: February 25, 2025, 10:53:56 am »
Quote from: catfish1957 on February 25, 2025, 10:52:22 am
I'd agree totally, if we were a financially sound nation, but as a reminder we are $37T in debt.  You okay, with the limitless credit card, blank check approach?  I'm not.

I am, because it's FAR cheaper than having to fight the Russians ourselves with our own troops.  Didn't anybody learn anything from the 1930s?
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Offline catfish1957

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Re: Zelensky willing to give up presidency in exchange for Ukraine Nato membership
« Reply #24 on: February 25, 2025, 11:03:14 am »
Quote from: Timber Rattler on February 25, 2025, 10:53:56 am
I am, because it's FAR cheaper than having to fight the Russians ourselves with our own troops.  Didn't anybody learn anything from the 1930s?

Russia has the 11th largest GDP in the world, and is dropping like a rock.  And demographics that are damning them to future failure.
Their currency is at an all time low, 1 rouble - one US cent.  They are one oil market crash away from bankruptcy. 
They have nukes, but that'd be an issue whether we confronted them or not.
As I said, I think Russia has become this Boogey Man story we feared as 5 year olds, and the threat is way overplayed.   Want to talk about the Chicoms OTOH, then we will discuss of a  future imminent threat
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