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Online catfish1957

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Re: Ukraine 5
« Reply #2000 on: February 20, 2025, 02:15:28 pm »
Quote from: DB on February 20, 2025, 02:12:40 pm
Yet your sources boil down to the source listed in the Newsweek article I provided you.

Well some of those do lean right.  I also read the left's shit too.  Your point?
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Offline DB

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Re: Ukraine 5
« Reply #2001 on: February 20, 2025, 02:29:52 pm »
Quote from: catfish1957 on February 20, 2025, 02:15:28 pm
Well some of those do lean right.  I also read the left's shit too.  Your point?

My point is obvious. All the sources go back to a single source, a source that is entirely unsourced and simply says what you want to hear. And then you repeat it ad infinitum.
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Offline MeganC

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Re: Ukraine 5
« Reply #2002 on: February 20, 2025, 02:38:23 pm »
Quote from: catfish1957 on February 20, 2025, 02:08:02 pm
I am a news junky.  That list is too large and variable write down.

Ditto that. And so far I have seen Zelensky accused of owning two superyachts, at least two Italian villas, a Bugatti, a GV private jet, a Dassault private jet, and so far all of that has proved untrue.

On the other side has was accused of being worth $30m when he was elected and this was true. It was also proven by his political opposition to come from his earnings in the media. They could not prove otherwise and were then unable to stop him from running to be president of Ukraine.
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Offline Wingnut

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Re: Ukraine 5
« Reply #2003 on: February 20, 2025, 02:41:39 pm »
President Trump has just halted all U.S. arms shipments to Ukraine - including those intended for purchase - which are now on hold as well.

It has been reported.
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Online catfish1957

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Re: Ukraine 5
« Reply #2004 on: February 20, 2025, 02:42:16 pm »
Before Canonizing St. Z, let's find out what Musk can find out. 

And again , his biggest allies were Schumer, Pelosi, and Biden.  That tells me enough.
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Offline MeganC

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Re: Ukraine 5
« Reply #2005 on: February 20, 2025, 02:53:20 pm »
Quote from: catfish1957 on February 20, 2025, 02:42:16 pm
Before Canonizing St. Z, let's find out what Musk can find out. 

And again , his biggest allies were Schumer, Pelosi, and Biden.  That tells me enough.

This may well end up with Trump exiting NATO. In which case the Russians will attack the Baltics, Turkey and Greece will go to war, etc etc etc and then we'll send two million kids to Europe again.
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Online catfish1957

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Re: Ukraine 5
« Reply #2006 on: February 20, 2025, 02:59:39 pm »
Quote from: MeganC on February 20, 2025, 02:53:20 pm
This may well end up with Trump exiting NATO. In which case the Russians will attack the Baltics, Turkey and Greece will go to war, etc etc etc and then we'll send two million kids to Europe again.

With what? 

(1) His army is decimated. 
(2) Russia has the 11th largest GDP in the world, and that standing is dropping like a rock due to demographics and corruption
(3) Their currency is at an all time low.  1 Rouble = one US cent.
(4) They are one oil bust away from total collapse, including stranding the troops they have already deployed

Like I said earlier....   I stopped being afraid of the boogie man when I was about 5.  Putin should hang, but let the EU and his own people do the dirty deed.  All that Putin has left are nukes..  And he is more likely to use them if the US in intervening in this quagmire.

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Online FtrPilot

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Re: Ukraine 5
« Reply #2007 on: February 20, 2025, 03:57:37 pm »
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Re: Ukraine 5
« Reply #2008 on: February 20, 2025, 04:12:46 pm »
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Re: Ukraine 5
« Reply #2009 on: February 20, 2025, 04:18:39 pm »
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Offline 240B

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Re: Ukraine 5
« Reply #2010 on: February 20, 2025, 07:06:25 pm »
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Offline DB

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Re: Ukraine 5
« Reply #2011 on: February 20, 2025, 07:57:09 pm »
Quote from: Wingnut on February 20, 2025, 02:41:39 pm
President Trump has just halted all U.S. arms shipments to Ukraine - including those intended for purchase - which are now on hold as well.

It has been reported.

So far I have not seen that be confirmed.
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 5
« Reply #2012 on: February 20, 2025, 11:12:18 pm »
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 5
« Reply #2013 on: February 20, 2025, 11:16:56 pm »
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If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 5
« Reply #2014 on: February 20, 2025, 11:19:37 pm »
Ukrainian F-16 (that was NOT given to them by the US)

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If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 5
« Reply #2015 on: February 20, 2025, 11:21:14 pm »
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If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 5
« Reply #2016 on: February 20, 2025, 11:30:12 pm »
Zelenskiy has gone on the airwaves to address the Ukrainian people each and every day of this conflict.  Yet his detractors in this country claim he's "throwing a hissy fit".

Judge for yourself, people:


https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1892714137492312352
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If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 5
« Reply #2017 on: February 20, 2025, 11:34:14 pm »
Blow for Putin as 'occupation official' killed in early-morning car bomb in Ukraine

The death of Yevgeny Bogdanov is the latest killing of a pro-Russian figure during the Ukraine war.

Housnia Shams  |  Feb 20, 2025  |  12:17 ET

A Russian official has been killed in a car bomb attack in Ukraine, Kyiv's military intelligence agency says.

Deputy head of Russia's occupation administration of Berdyansk, Yevgeny Bogdanov, died when his car exploded near a building in Berdyansk on Thursday morning, according to Ukraine's military intelligence agency (HUR).

The agency described Bogdanov as a "Russian war criminal."

"During his stay in the occupied Ukrainian territories, Yevgeny Bogdanov repeatedly committed war crimes against Ukrainian citizens," HUR said in a post on its website.

"He arrived in Berdyansk immediately after the capture of the city by the troops of the aggressor state in 2022."

HUR said Bogdanov was responsible for "controlling finances in the occupation administration" and organizing the construction of fortifications in parts of the Zaporizhzhia region.  .  .

https://www.the-express.com/news/world-news/164278/russia-ukraine-war-Yevgeny-Bogdanov-car-bomb-putin
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If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 5
« Reply #2018 on: February 20, 2025, 11:37:39 pm »
Ukraine rallies around Zelenskyy after Trump’s vicious attack

Kyiv blasts back at the U.S. president after he ridicules Ukraine’s leader — and demands the war-ravaged country hold an election.

Veronika Melkozerova  |  February 19  |  2025 9:35 pm CET

KYIV — Ukraine is sick of it.

After American President Donald Trump attacked Kyiv’s leader Volodymyr Zelenskyy, calling him incompetent and a “dictator without elections” who had duped the U.S. into coughing up billions of dollars in military support, Ukrainian politicians, officials and soldiers leaped to their president’s defense.

“Ukraine is a sovereign state! Volodymyr Zelenskyy is the President of Ukraine. Legitimate until another is elected. Only Ukrainians can decide when and under what conditions they should change their government. Today, there are no such conditions,” said Yulia Tymoshenko, former prime minister of Ukraine and leader of the mildly oppositional Motherland faction in the Ukrainian parliament, in a statement Wednesday.

Trump’s stunning and total adoption of the Kremlin’s narrative on Ukraine — which has huge ramifications for Europe’s security architecture — has reverberated across the continent, but nowhere is it being felt more keenly than in Kyiv, which has been resisting a full-scale Russian invasion for three years.

The White House’s attempt to badger Ukraine into holding elections during a war that has sent millions of its citizens fleeing for safety to other countries is particularly vexing for politicians.

The Ukrainian constitution forbids holding elections during martial law and active warfare, as Kyiv can’t guarantee the safety and voting rights of all Ukrainians, such as soldiers and people living in Russian-occupied territories.

“Elections during wartime are impossible and immoral because our military will not be able to participate in them. And without them, elections will never be legitimate.  .  .  .

https://www.politico.eu/article/donald-trump-volodymyr-zelenskyy-president-ukraine-russia-war-white-house/
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If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 5
« Reply #2019 on: February 20, 2025, 11:45:28 pm »
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If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline Timber Rattler

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Re: Ukraine 5
« Reply #2020 on: February 21, 2025, 05:01:48 am »
For all the ignoramuses around here:

Quote

“Ukraine is a sovereign state! Volodymyr Zelenskyy is the President of Ukraine. Legitimate until another is elected. Only Ukrainians can decide when and under what conditions they should change their government. Today, there are no such conditions,” said Yulia Tymoshenko, former prime minister of Ukraine and leader of the mildly oppositional Motherland faction in the Ukrainian parliament, in a statement Wednesday.

(snip)

The Ukrainian constitution forbids holding elections during martial law and active warfare, as Kyiv can’t guarantee the safety and voting rights of all Ukrainians, such as soldiers and people living in Russian-occupied territories.

“Elections during wartime are impossible and immoral because our military will not be able to participate in them. And without them, elections will never be legitimate.  During the war, it is suicidal to start the election race, tearing the country into political camps. Now, more than ever, we need unity and stability,” said Tymoshenko, who opposes Zelenskyy’s idea of offering the West access to Ukraine’s vast reserves of critical minerals.

Yulia Tymoshenko is one of the names batted around as a potential challenger to Zelensky.  She ain't going to play along with that nonsense.

Here's why:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yulia_Tymoshenko

Russia puts former Ukrainian Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko on its wanted list

https://apnews.com/article/russia-tymoshenko-wanted-list-ukraine-a222c691884ac1d0f4a999ca6baf2169
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Ukraine 5
« Reply #2021 on: February 21, 2025, 05:53:43 am »
Quote from: catfish1957 on February 20, 2025, 12:35:33 pm
From day 1, he has been vague and ambiguous of the cornucopia of funds we have provided.  I support the Uke troops, but there was a lot of anecdotal info. floating around that a good deal of that has been diverted for other purposes.  The picture of his wife shopping in Paris during the first Christmas after the war started, irked me too.   Then add the point that his biggest allies here were Biden, Schumer, and Pelosi?

Yeah I'd say I am not a fan.   And I hope DOGE might put the light to what went where too.
Biden, Schumer, and Pelosi controlled aid, in any form that Ukraine would get. I have little doubt they controlled how much of that was siphoned off, and where it went to. Yeah, they're on my All American Fecal Roster, near the top, with stars. But the question is simply, what's a mutha to do? Zelenskey desperately needed aid, and they were the best store in town. WHich means the terms may not have been great (as in a lot got siphoned off right here in America), but those were the only way he and Ukraine could fight back.

If Zelenskey is making bank off of corruption, well, out that, and deal with it.

But at least see where and to what/whom the money went first. My bet is that the lion's share never left the USA, except to be stashed in offshore accounts by folks from here.
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Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Ukraine 5
« Reply #2022 on: February 21, 2025, 06:06:20 am »
Quote from: catfish1957 on February 20, 2025, 01:55:05 pm
We have been lied to by the likes of Newsweek, MSNBC, CNN, etc.  You believe the MSM at their word?

Especially with the likes of Pelosi, Schumer, and Biden so cozy with the Z's?
Would these three: Pelosi, Schumer, and Biden EVER turn down such an opportunity to ram billions of dollars around with little accounting with a desperate recipient who might agree to virtually any 'commission' in ordeer to get what is left? If you need help, you go to the people who CAN provide it, even if the skim the hell out of what they claim they are giving you. Do you say,
"Thank you, can I have some more? ", even if it is being painfully ripped off, or do you shout and raise hell and go to people not in a position to help you at all?

Damned if you do, conquered if you don't!

I would like to see DOGE account for where, what, and to whom the 'aid' actually went before I'd write off Zelenskey as being as corrupt as the people he had to deal with.
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How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline MeganC

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Re: Ukraine 5
« Reply #2023 on: February 21, 2025, 07:48:55 am »
Quote from: Hoodat on February 20, 2025, 11:34:14 pm
The death of Yevgeny Bogdanov is the latest killing of a pro-Russian figure during the Ukrainian war.

Hopefully not the last.

Russia must be destroyed.
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Re: Ukraine 5
« Reply #2024 on: February 21, 2025, 08:42:40 am »
Ukraine Could be Offered Automatic NATO Membership if Russia Welches on Peace Deal: Report

Ukraine NATO membership could play role of both carrot and stick to encourage more civilised behaviour from Russia, report claims.

https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2025/02/21/ukraine-could-be-offered-automatic-nato-membership-if-russia-welches-on-peace-deal-report/
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