Author Topic: BREAKING...There has been a school shooting at Apalachee High School  (Read 14756 times)

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Online roamer_1

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Re: BREAKING...There has been a school shooting at Apalachee High School
« Reply #100 on: September 06, 2024, 09:38:13 pm »
Maybe in your area that a reasonable risk to take. Montana isn't an urban area though. Things are different elsewhere in the country.

Yes. Elsewhere where liberty barely breathes.

Offline libertybele

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Re: BREAKING...There has been a school shooting at Apalachee High School
« Reply #101 on: September 06, 2024, 09:46:22 pm »
And how am I supposed to know what is teenage bravado and real threat? What if I draw that line wrongly? That makes it my fault?

And btw... There's been a .357 in my always unlocked pickup that always has the keys in it, literally all my life. There's a .30/30 in the seat scabbard.

Y'all have no idea left of liberty.

I would venture to say in your neck of the woods kids are taught to handle weapons not just given a weapon and then 'here ya go'.  Big difference.

Take the curiosity out of what a firearm can do at a young age.  Those they don't seem to be able to grasp the severity of what a firearm can do have no business having one around them.

@roamer_1  you are fortunate and live in a different environment than I do. Living in the suburbs or city we don't leave or weapons in our vehicles; especially unlocked.  There have been some auto thefts, not many, but why make it easy?  We lock our car doors.  Living in a populated area is drastically different.

I was stunned when we first moved down here.  We rented at first and the landlord came to mow the grass and we started to leave the house with the windows open and doors unlocked.  That's what we were accustomed to.  Moving into a more populated area, we were quickly told that you don't tempt fate. He told us to lock up the house when we leave.

Our weapons are inside --- those for immediate use or always loaded.

Online roamer_1

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Re: BREAKING...There has been a school shooting at Apalachee High School
« Reply #102 on: September 06, 2024, 09:52:05 pm »
I would venture to say in your neck of the woods kids are taught to handle weapons not just given a weapon and then 'here ya go'.  Big difference.

Take the curiosity out of what a firearm can do at a young age.  Those they don't seem to be able to grasp the severity of what a firearm can do have no business having one around them.

@roamer_1  you are fortunate and live in a different environment than I do. Living in the suburbs or city we don't leave or weapons in our vehicles; especially unlocked.  There have been some auto thefts, not many, but why make it easy?  We lock our car doors.  Living in a populated area is drastically different.

I was stunned when we first moved down here.  We rented at first and the landlord came to mow the grass and we started to leave the house with the windows open and doors unlocked.  That's what we were accustomed to.  Moving into a more populated area, we were quickly told that you don't tempt fate. He told us to lock up the house when we leave.

Our weapons are inside --- those for immediate use or always loaded.

It is not a matter of fortune @libertybele - Were I forced to be where you are now, I would be strapping on my keds and walking off... North and west till I hit big timber. And liberty.
I would not stay where you are. No offense meant. It's just to narrow for me.


Offline libertybele

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Re: BREAKING...There has been a school shooting at Apalachee High School
« Reply #103 on: September 06, 2024, 09:54:20 pm »
Yes. Elsewhere where liberty barely breathes.

That's a pretty accurate statement in many areas.  I have seen a dramatic increase in population here in the past 30 years and in the past 2-3 years we've had a huge increase due to people leaving the chokehold of the blue states.  Consequently we are now starting to see an exodus out of here because for one it's becoming too populated and secondly it's becoming unaffordable. I see FL turning blue (joy /s).

Unfortunately, eventually you won't be able to escape the population explosion if the ILLEGALS are allowed to continue to invade our country and if so, I can almost guarantee you that the mass migration will start pouring into the countryside.

Offline libertybele

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Re: BREAKING...There has been a school shooting at Apalachee High School
« Reply #104 on: September 06, 2024, 09:59:29 pm »
It is not a matter of fortune @libertybele - Were I forced to be where you are now, I would be strapping on my keds and walking off... North and west till I hit big timber. And liberty.
I would not stay where you are. No offense meant. It's just to narrow for me.

No offense taken.  I absolutely agree with you, but neither one of us have the energy nor health to get out of here...yes we should have left 5 years ago while we had the chance.  I wish we could both just put on our Keds and walk on out of here. What a difference 5 years make as you get older.

So...we do the best we can and prepare with what we have.  :shrug:

Online roamer_1

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Re: BREAKING...There has been a school shooting at Apalachee High School
« Reply #105 on: September 06, 2024, 10:02:57 pm »
No offense taken.  I absolutely agree with you, but neither one of us have the energy nor health to get out of here...yes we should have left 5 years ago while we had the chance.  I wish we could both just put on our Keds and walk on out of here. What a difference 5 years make as you get older.

So...we do the best we can and prepare with what we have.  :shrug:

Even as I am, I am contemplating inland BC and Northern Alberta... the NWT... Alaska. If I get my legs back, I think I will be going there.

Offline mountaineer

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Re: BREAKING...There has been a school shooting at Apalachee High School
« Reply #106 on: September 06, 2024, 10:08:21 pm »
I suspect this kid was raised on a steady diet of junk food and video games, with a mother who reportedly neglected and abused her children, and a father who didn't teach him to respect hunting laws  (look at the video of the buck he killed, and tell me if that was a legal harvest).
« Last Edit: September 07, 2024, 07:34:53 am by mountaineer »
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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: BREAKING...There has been a school shooting at Apalachee High School
« Reply #107 on: September 06, 2024, 10:11:20 pm »
Careful what you wish for. The same could be said about me, but about 3 years earlier.
Guns freely available to me since a young age...

Did the police investigate you for mass shooting threats?  As part of the investigation did the police instruct your parents not to give you a gun and to keep any gun in the home under lock and key?

Online roamer_1

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Re: BREAKING...There has been a school shooting at Apalachee High School
« Reply #108 on: September 06, 2024, 10:25:58 pm »
Did the police investigate you for mass shooting threats?  As part of the investigation did the police instruct your parents not to give you a gun and to keep any gun in the home under lock and key?

Not that exactly... But yes. I was a little hellion. Raised up wild. My daddy only threw my bail once. But that was for the order of things. After that, I was on my own.

But raised up right all the same.
And I am grateful to my parents they paid no mind to school shrinks and county child enforcement azzoles that sought to pussify me.


Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: BREAKING...There has been a school shooting at Apalachee High School
« Reply #109 on: September 06, 2024, 11:36:46 pm »
I knew a firearms instructor who began to teach his children to handle a gun around the age of 3. He familiarized them with gun safety first and taught them to respect a weapon and then taught them to shoot a weapon. This was done over time and each progressed at a different rate. They also realized what would happen if they 'abused' that weapon and they knew full well that guns mishandled could kill.

It seems that this Dad gave his 14 year old a gun with no instruction which was absolutely irresponsible.
My experience was similar to what you describe.

What I'm seeing here:

Not 100 yards to the deer (nit picking, I know, and the video could have been started closer than from where he shot).

Kid lays down rifle with muzzle pointed in the direction of the camera (and operator)--a definite no-no.

Muzzle down and looked like he planted it, because he tried to clear the flash hider of debris.
(another no-no) if the gun is in battery (mag in, bolt closed, no way to tell if there was a round in the chamber).. Referring to it as "loaded" may just reference the concept that until PROVEN otherwise, every firearm is to be handled as if loaded, finger off the trigger, strict muzzle discipline. We never saw the rifle being cleared, so we don't know and the default is to treat it as loaded.

Magazine in, rifle appears in battery. I don't trust safeties and was taught to never trust a safety. If there was a round in the mag, the mag should have been removed before clearing the chamber.

Muzzle discipline in general is poor, put hand in front of it, stood in front of it, pointed it toward camera.

This is not someone who has been carefully schooled in safe firearms handling.

If our firearm handling had been this sloppy, deer or no, our season would have been over. That from someone who was hunting whitetail at nine (harvested my first at 11).
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Offline mountaineer

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Re: BREAKING...There has been a school shooting at Apalachee High School
« Reply #110 on: September 10, 2024, 10:24:29 am »
Body-cam footage released of Georgia school shooter Colt Gray & his father being questioned by police after he threatened to shoot up a middle school in 2023.

https://twitter.com/CollinRugg/status/1833476368794824751
The abnormal is not the normal just because it is prevalent.
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Offline mountaineer

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Re: BREAKING...There has been a school shooting at Apalachee High School
« Reply #111 on: September 21, 2024, 09:23:17 am »
UPDATE
Quote
Mom of alleged Georgia school shooter Colt Gray charged with abusing her own mother, taping her to chair: report
By Matthew Sedacca   
Published Sep. 21, 2024, 9:19 a.m. ET
New York Post

A​ Georgia woman whose teenage son allegedly killed four people at Apalachee High School has been accused of taping her elderly mother to a chair, stealing her phone and damaging her home, according to a report.

Marcee Gray was indicted Monday in Ben Hill County, Ga., for the alleged abuse of her own mom, Deborah Polhamus in November — who was bound to a chair for almost 24 hours in her Fitzgerald home, The Atlanta-Journal Constitution reported​. ...
This really is the family from hell.
The abnormal is not the normal just because it is prevalent.
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Offline PeteS in CA

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Re: BREAKING...There has been a school shooting at Apalachee High School
« Reply #112 on: September 21, 2024, 09:34:43 am »
UPDATEThis really is the family from hell.

Unless you live in between a crack house and a brothel, they aren't your typical next-door neighbor types.
I am not and never have been a leftist.

If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.

Offline jmyrlefuller

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Re: BREAKING...There has been a school shooting at Apalachee High School
« Reply #113 on: September 21, 2024, 02:25:21 pm »
And how am I supposed to know what is teenage bravado and real threat? What if I draw that line wrongly? That makes it my fault?

And btw... There's been a .357 in my always unlocked pickup that always has the keys in it, literally all my life. There's a .30/30 in the seat scabbard.

Y'all have no idea left of liberty.
YES. It is your fault, and you are in the wrong.

Teenagers are inherently unstable. Anyone who willingly leaves an unlocked gun within a teenager's reach unsupervised is willingly negligent. Teenage bravado IS a real threat, no matter what.
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Online roamer_1

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Re: BREAKING...There has been a school shooting at Apalachee High School
« Reply #114 on: September 21, 2024, 03:30:51 pm »
YES. It is your fault, and you are in the wrong.

Teenagers are inherently unstable. Anyone who willingly leaves an unlocked gun within a teenager's reach unsupervised is willingly negligent. Teenage bravado IS a real threat, no matter what.

No, that's bullshit. I know because I was entirely full of teenage bravado in my day. The war between me and my father was epic. I was easily double his size, and could have pinched his head off with one hand. It was a big, hateful rebellion, across years.

Yet all along there were loaded, chambered guns within my grasp (some of them my own). Hell, we had hard words, close to throwing hands, with both of us carrying.

Not to mention, in the course of all of my life, I carried at least three knives on my person at all times - And that of a necessity...

So understand me now. Because of my environment, and my size, I came up hard, with necessary armament around me at most times, if not all.

I was wild.
And I could have chosen violence - I was even prone to violence. I have engaged, often, with fist, and knife and club - All those being equally at my disposal, along with guns...

And I have defended myself, from an early age, with all of them.

Yet I knew the difference. As did everyone else I grew up with. All those guns around (and knives, and hatchets), literally everywhere, And none that I recall expired from any of it (excluding those who expired in the commitment of a crime).

As a teenager, what killed my friends were cars, not guns. Some to industrial accident, but mostly car wrecks.

To the point in your mind, that all these things should be locked away, I guess... Guns, knives, hachets, cars, pickups, tractors... And so on.

In which case, I may as well move to the city, where I'll be 'safe'.

It is laughable.

Offline GtHawk

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Re: BREAKING...There has been a school shooting at Apalachee High School
« Reply #115 on: September 21, 2024, 05:30:01 pm »
No, that's bullshit. I know because I was entirely full of teenage bravado in my day. The war between me and my father was epic. I was easily double his size, and could have pinched his head off with one hand. It was a big, hateful rebellion, across years.

Yet all along there were loaded, chambered guns within my grasp (some of them my own). Hell, we had hard words, close to throwing hands, with both of us carrying.

Not to mention, in the course of all of my life, I carried at least three knives on my person at all times - And that of a necessity...

So understand me now. Because of my environment, and my size, I came up hard, with necessary armament around me at most times, if not all.

I was wild.
And I could have chosen violence - I was even prone to violence. I have engaged, often, with fist, and knife and club - All those being equally at my disposal, along with guns...

And I have defended myself, from an early age, with all of them.

Yet I knew the difference. As did everyone else I grew up with. All those guns around (and knives, and hatchets), literally everywhere, And none that I recall expired from any of it (excluding those who expired in the commitment of a crime).

As a teenager, what killed my friends were cars, not guns. Some to industrial accident, but mostly car wrecks.

To the point in your mind, that all these things should be locked away, I guess... Guns, knives, hachets, cars, pickups, tractors... And so on.

In which case, I may as well move to the city, where I'll be 'safe'.

It is laughable.
I have lived in the city my entire life, while my father never had guns I started to acquire them as soon as I was legally able. Having moved out at eighteen that means I have had numerous loaded unlocked weapons in my home for close to 50 years and they were kept loaded and unlocked every single day that my children lived at home. Even though my son had a very difficult time emotionally and relationship wise all the through high school he never felt that the way to handle being picked n was to take a gun and kill somebody, nor did I ever worry about my teenage son killing anyone.

Are we supposed to believe that all the decades prior where guns weren’t villainized and were much more readily available there was no teenage bravado. Something has caused a serious shift in society that is responsible for all the mentally ill young people murdering others, and it hasn’t a damned thing to do with guns or teenage bravado.

Offline libertybele

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Re: BREAKING...There has been a school shooting at Apalachee High School
« Reply #116 on: September 21, 2024, 06:05:05 pm »
YES. It is your fault, and you are in the wrong.

Teenagers are inherently unstable. Anyone who willingly leaves an unlocked gun within a teenager's reach unsupervised is willingly negligent. Teenage bravado IS a real threat, no matter what.

Well, since I've have kids and grandkids I'll voice my opinion on this. Nope. I declare b.s.  You are in the wrong @jmyrlefuller. You teach children to RESPECT a weapon, others and other's property.  I raised two kids who were both around guns and multiple grandkids around guns.  No guns were not in their face and when they were toddling, they were indeed locked up as I have found for some reason toddlers are incredibly quick crawling or walking once they have their mind set on what they want and they'll out pace you every time.

Rebellious teens?  Well, I'd say it depends on how they are raised.  As youngsters I warned them before we as a family left the house or before they left the house not to step out of line as their would be consequences.  I think the tried us once or twice, but most of the time we got compliments on their behavior.

Late middle school and high school years, they knew they had to be home by 10:00 on a school night and by 12 on the weekends.  We often warned them; get caught by the police we will NOT bail you out. They were reminded of that often and knew we wouldn't.

College years --- oh good grief -- they were free to venture on their own. I used to pray for my son for hours.  Yeppers I was one of the parents that if I didn't hear from my son, I threatened either his aunt and uncle would deal with him (you just didn't mess with them) or I would call his school.  The school hunted him down a couple of times for me.  My daughter was born with a certain 'spark' and always marched to the beat of her own drum and pushed the envelope at times -- but she realized she ultimately had to deal with the consequences.

They were around guns their whole lives, but most importantly -- both children grew up with a very strong religious background.  They know ultimately who they have to answer to and they know there's no negotiating.

I've known kids that have come from very rough upbringings and taunted at school but had some common sense when it came to weapons and getting into trouble -- staying out of trouble was in their best interest. 
« Last Edit: September 21, 2024, 06:08:16 pm by libertybele »

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: BREAKING...There has been a school shooting at Apalachee High School
« Reply #117 on: September 21, 2024, 07:26:52 pm »
And how am I supposed to know what is teenage bravado and real threat?

If he says he's going to shoot up a school, lock up your guns? Seems reasonable. If he's a little rebellious as all kids are, then no need. Use some common sense. With freedom comes responsibility. Period.

Offline libertybele

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Re: BREAKING...There has been a school shooting at Apalachee High School
« Reply #118 on: September 21, 2024, 09:35:08 pm »
If he says he's going to shoot up a school, lock up your guns? Seems reasonable. If he's a little rebellious as all kids are, then no need. Use some common sense. With freedom comes responsibility. Period.

Exactly!

Online roamer_1

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Re: BREAKING...There has been a school shooting at Apalachee High School
« Reply #119 on: September 21, 2024, 09:43:25 pm »
If he says he's going to shoot up a school, lock up your guns? Seems reasonable. If he's a little rebellious as all kids are, then no need. Use some common sense. With freedom comes responsibility. Period.

No. What seems reasonable to you kills my chickens.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: BREAKING...There has been a school shooting at Apalachee High School
« Reply #120 on: September 22, 2024, 05:07:50 am »
Teach your kids well, to resist the depredations of modern society.
Keep a good enough relationship with them that they can come to you when they have problems. That takes time, and no small amount of giving on your part.
Teach them to resolve problems calmly, rationally, and that is is okay to just walk away at times--a sign of strength, not weakness.
Teach them respect for firearms, but even more importantly, for life.
Especially human life.
And teach them that there is a power far greater than all of this, and He does take an interest and answer prayer (even if sometimes the answer is "no").

Do all that, and you won't have to worry about your kids. Other kids who come to visit should know your rules, too, but if you aren't comfortable with them following them, you can lock up the things they need not mess with. We didn't let kids like that in very often, and not for long.
 
We were taught to kill nothing for 'fun'. If you aren't going to eat it, and it isn't a threat, leave it alone. if you must kill it, for food or otherwise, do it in such a way it will not suffer.
Human life is sacred, and not to be taken lightly.
But that was in the days when Gas Chambers and Electric Chairs were used to deal with murderers, and prosecutors were unlikely to cut any slack to the worst of offenders. Killing someone could get you dead, not 25-30 years of dragged out appeals.

Psychoactive medication administration has risen in the interim as well, and it seems that many shooting incidents involve either medication or the lack of it, even though prescribed (which disuse (not just the use thereof) can cause some serious mental side effects).


Guns are little different. The rules have changed, the guns haven't much, 30 round magazines for semiautomatic rifless have been around since before WWII (M1 carbine comes to mind). At city ranges they aren't any less lethal and don't shoot slower than their modern counterparts. Semiautomatic pistols are basically the same, too.

While the rules have made gun ownership more difficult to do in some places while remaining in legal compliance, and driven the peaceful and recreational uses of firearms a bit underground in urban areas, crime has gone up.

Not because guns haven't been there, even if in reduced numbers, but because of cultural changes, some of which have made it harder for the law abiding to carry one in case they need it for self-defense. That tilts the playing field towards the criminals, but it also removes something from 'polite' society that once was a normal fixture and renders it exotic, Instead of a firearm being an acceptable means of self-defense, it becomes a desirable offensive means to feeling powerful in a world that increasingly seems to emphasize the marginalization of everything good and decent about our society while touting the behavioural deviants and outliers as 'brave' and 'empowered', leaving normalcy disaffected, while blaming 'normal' people for the shortcomings of individuals and cultural failures of the many. 

We were quite a bit better off, culturally, when such deviance  was eschewed rather than promoted, and when kids are involved, they are stunned when the real world doesn't react to them like what happens on TV, so instead of introspection, self evaluation, and change, they blame all else for not reacting like they think it should have, just as modern media and society and even the schools teach them.  Thus they generalize and hate, without reason, any and all who seem to stand in the way of their pet personal indulgence.

It is a combination of factors which have led society here. Disarming those who might need to resist that violent culmination is a grave error that leads nowhere good.
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Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline SZonian

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Re: BREAKING...There has been a school shooting at Apalachee High School
« Reply #121 on: September 22, 2024, 06:42:00 am »
YES. It is your fault, and you are in the wrong.

Teenagers are inherently unstable. Anyone who willingly leaves an unlocked gun within a teenager's reach unsupervised is willingly negligent. Teenage bravado IS a real threat, no matter what.
You've stepped in it here and since others have done a fine job of dispelling the assertion, I'll simply say that I am in agreement with those who disagree with you.
Throwing our allegiances to political parties in the long run gave away our liberty.

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: BREAKING...There has been a school shooting at Apalachee High School
« Reply #122 on: September 22, 2024, 06:49:29 am »
It is a combination of factors which have led society here. Disarming those who might need to resist that violent culmination is a grave error that leads nowhere good.

That's a strawman argument though, never said anything about disarming anyone. This is about charging people who behave negligently.

There's a lot of "nature vs. nurture" argument here, and I won't begin to make any arguments about how kids become killers, because I don't know. I may posit that sometimes maybe they get some bad wiring despite everything you've done right, and if they show it outwardly, a little precaution should be taken.

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: BREAKING...There has been a school shooting at Apalachee High School
« Reply #123 on: September 22, 2024, 06:51:20 am »
No. What seems reasonable to you kills my chickens.

We can agree to disagree then, but I'll bet a lot of people agree with me, and you'll see more parents of these shooters start to get charged.

Online roamer_1

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Re: BREAKING...There has been a school shooting at Apalachee High School
« Reply #124 on: September 22, 2024, 02:57:24 pm »
There's a lot of "nature vs. nurture" argument here, and I won't begin to make any arguments about how kids become killers, because I don't know. I may posit that sometimes maybe they get some bad wiring despite everything you've done right, and if they show it outwardly, a little precaution should be taken.

No, that is not the argument.
The argument surrounds the idea that the parent should have automagically known, seen it coming, and therefore it is their fault. EVERY teen age kid keeps things from their parents. All of them.

And AND, with that, the specious notion that guns must naturally be locked up... But not knives and hatchets, and hammers, and letter openers... Not to mention cars and tractors.

In rural life, guns are tools. Just like any tool. They are not accorded special circumstance. They just ARE. Where they belong. READY.

That cannot change, short of selling off your stock, and removing yourself from the countryside.
If you have stock, and you live in the mountains,
You have guns, that are ready, and you USE them.

This speaks to the disconnect between modern living and real life.