Author Topic: You Wake Up in Early 2024 and Donald Trump is Your Last Best (Only) Chance...  (Read 7041 times)

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Offline art.prout

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I can't help you (or even begin to dialogue with you) if you:

  • Absolutely 'hate' Trump because he was born in NY and still retains properties and business there...
  • Don't like the way that he looks...
  • Don't like the way that he talks... (I often shift between cringing and laughing out loud when he is "on a roll!")
  • Wish that he was more (book) scholarly and often quoted the Founders or their resources such as Locke and Montesquieu...
  • Wish that he focused his attacks and venom on the particular segment of the US population that you have the most issues with...
  • Can't let go of the fact that he vanquished your chosen candidate in 2016 or 2024...
  • Are angry that he doesn't focus in on the particular issue (and we have more 'issues' than you may imagine) that you believe to be the root of all of the problems...

And most likely a host of other 'problems with Trump' that I failed to recognize.

Fact is this: Donald Trump will be the GOP nominee for President this coming November, unless of course, the forces aligned against him (and more pointedly, against YOU) take very drastic measures.

Another fact is: Joe biden (or someone that he is replaced with that is more likely to be even more effective at destroying the United States of America) will be the opponent of Donald Trump.

(It is my supposition (that may prove to be correct, or not) that RFK, Jr. and any other 3rd party nominees that may surface, will not have sufficient impact to alter the (actual) election results.)

I also take it as a given that there will be massive vote fraud that may or may not substantively impact the results (especially the EC tally).


Having cleared the air, let me begin my attempt to convince you that Donald Trump is Your Last Best (Only) Chance...

The first thing that we need to come to grips with is that whatever you may have thought about (or even still had slim hopes for) what the "Republican Party" (i.e., GOP, or more pointedly the private corporation known as the Republican National Committee (RNC)) stood for, represented, or is actively engaged in, most likely needs to be flushed down the toilet.

  • The RNC has absolutely no interest in fielding and supporting a "conservative" (in the manner that you most likely define such) candidate for POTUS.
  • The RNC cares little if their POTUS candidate wins the election or not.
  • The RNC has willingly (and gleefully for some part) accepted their corporate role in both the charade that has been running that purports to make 'politics' and the electoral process about the will and benefit of the American people, and the absolute and total destruction of the United States of America.

This little essay isn't intended to be a historical document, maybe the discussion can/should veer in that direction.  But I believe that it is suffice to say, for most of you, that this degradation of our country, and its political and social environment, has been a long running, fully thought out, plan for many decades...  most likely since before you were born.

I have a First Edition copy of Carroll Quigley's Tragedy and Hope: A History of the World in Our Time in which he clearly laid out the purpose and design of the "two party system" and how it has (with keen foresight!) brought us to this point.  I have never found the specific text available online, as it was stricken from all editions and printings beyond the first.  So I can not 'paste' it in for our review, but if need be, I will probably be able to dig that book out of a storage box (somewhere) and type it in to the discussion.

To put it succinctly, this (RNC) ain't your father's Oldsmobile!

They will not be shamed, outvoted, or otherwise coerced into supporting the "conservative" candidate of your choice.  You refused to vote for Bush, McCain, Romney, and/or Trump, and they remain unmoved.  No one is strategizing about how "we should put up a more 'conservative' candiate and surely we will win!"


To come to grips with the REALITY that we face, there a certain things that we must understand and accept:

  • The heart of man is evil.
  • Over time, the force of evil will prevail (in THIS world) to the point of total destruction.  (Our ultimate salvation is only found in a willing acceptance of Jesus Christ as our personal Lord and Savior.)
  • Greed and the Will to Power is the guiding force of those that have amassed the wealth required to subvert and destroy the collective will and liberty of free people.
  • As founded, the United States of America has always been a block and deterrent force against the desires and goals of those that wish to destroy the collective will and liberty of free people.
  • Since its inception, these forces have been aligned and arrayed to destroy the United States of America.
  • They are getting really close.


We have arrived at the point in time (actually many decades ago) that it is foolhardy to use the terms: liberal, democrat, republican, conservative, leftist, right-wing, etc. in our discourse.  The meanings and representation have long been subverted and distorted.

It has pretty much come down to this simple equation:  There are marxist/communist forces aligned to hasten the complete destruction of the United States of America as a viable and effective force and haven for liberty and free peoples that thrive under the bounds and direction of Natural Law.  Donald Trump (with all of his warts, flaws, and shortcomings) represents the ONLY choice that is available to you as an attempt to thwart (at least for a short time) these forces.

Sucks that it isn't different.  Sucks that it has to be Trump.  Sucks that it has devolved to this point, and so damn quickly in recent years.  But, it is what it is.  Suck it up and accept that, or don't.

----

As an aside:
- "Freedom Cities" and a "Baby Bonus" have always been spur of the moment 'brain farts' that spewed out of an undisciplined candidate.  They ain't happening and will never see the light of day again.
- Extreme tariffs applied (particularly to CCP goods) are never intended to be paid by consumers, they are intended to destroy the (CCP's) ability to sell those goods in the US market.
- Donald Trump has as much ability to affect and impact the obscene and terminal (at least in economic terms) debt burden that those forces bent on destroying the US have created, as you and I.  That is why he spends little time on addressing it.  Another, it is what it is.  At some point the laws of economics (and math!) will win out.  Trump has no ability to alter that course, nor do you and I.

If you have bothered to read this essay to this point: Thanks!  I hope that it at least gives you something to think about.  If it didn't, I apologize for wasting your time.  Each of us, God willing, will be able to vote (or not vote) for POTUS in November, I truly hope that you each will vote in a manner that gives you peace and comfort (and makes the most sense for your, and your offspring's interests).

Offline AllThatJazzZ

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Rising....




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            :hands: :hands: :hands: :hands: :hands:

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is a government big enough to take away everything you have.


Online bigheadfred

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Quote
Donald Trump (with all of his warts, flaws, and shortcomings) represents the ONLY choice that is available to you as an attempt to thwart (at least for a short time) these forces.

Can't be said enough. Thanks Art!
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Online DCPatriot

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Bravo @art.prout

And proud to find myself in your political camp.

Thank you for your time and effort to put forth such a mature essay.

Ignore and/or impugn it at your own family's peril.   :patriot:
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Thanks @art.prout !

Like it or not, it is what it is.

We may not agree on what we want, but I think we can agree on what we do not want.

Sadly, few are even thinking about 'next time' yet, and the GOP or whoever represents the anti-totalitarian political factions of us out there should be thinking three or four elections ahead, and looking for candidates for then, too. The herd will get smaller as the elections approach.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online Lando Lincoln

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Thoughtful piece. Thank you. Bookmark.
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Online libertybele

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Thank you for your insight @art.prout
I Believe in the United States of America as a Government of the people, by the people, for the people; whose just powers are derived from the consent of the governed; a democracy in a republic; a sovereign nation of many sovereign states; a perfect union one and inseparable; established upon those principles of freedom, equality, justice and humanity for which American patriots sacrificed their lives and fortunes.  I therefore believe it is my duty to my country to love it; to support its Constitution; to obey its laws to respect its flag; and to defend it against all enemies.

Online catfish1957

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Sucks that it isn't different.  Sucks that it has to be Trump.  Sucks that it has devolved to this point, and so damn quickly in recent years.  But, it is what it is.  Suck it up and accept that, or don't.

----

As an aside:
- "Freedom Cities" and a "Baby Bonus" have always been spur of the moment 'brain farts' that spewed out of an undisciplined candidate.  They ain't happening and will never see the light of day again.




 :beer:

@art.prout @DCPatriot

First, ultra-kudos for having a sn screenshot of Silent Cal, the greatest American POTUS of the past 200 years.  You did a nice job of capturing the sentiment of many of us, that as badly as we dislike the candidate, we need a speed bump before putting up a better model.  Again, nice job.

And an additional kudo to DCP who apparently now says he is likely now in the "Hold his Nose" Camp.  We are more aligned than different on this one than you think.   :beer:




I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline roamer_1

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Thoughtfully laid out @art.prout

But in the end, pointing to them damn dirty Democrats and RINOs

No.

Point to government. Government is the enemy.
The point would be to reduce it's power and therefore its reach.

Then it really wouldn't matter who is in power.

That is not achieved by endorsing big government from the right, which is exactly what Tumpy represents.
In fact, that is gong exactly in the wrong direction. You WILL get more historic spending. You WILL get MORE printed money. Government will increase its reach, maybe more than if Democrats were in power, because the watchdogs on the right will not bark at their own.

This is surely calamity. And I will not help you do it.

My reasoning wrt Tumpy comes right out of his record and remarks.
He is no Conservative, as his history plainly attests.
He is no messiah.
He will fix nothing, just like last time
And he will do more damage.

That is what you are voting *FOR*

Online bigheadfred

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Bookmark and bump.  :bkmk:
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Online DCPatriot

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:beer:

@art.prout @DCPatriot

First, ultra-kudos for having a sn screenshot of Silent Cal, the greatest American POTUS of the past 200 years.  You did a nice job of capturing the sentiment of many of us, that as badly as we dislike the candidate, we need a speed bump before putting up a better model.  Again, nice job.

And an additional kudo to DCP who apparently now says he is likely now in the "Hold his Nose" Camp.  We are more aligned than different on this one than you think.   :beer:

@catfish1957

Hold on there, Astrofan!

I can appreciate an American Thinker-worthy piece as easily as the next guy.  But also able to consider Donald J. Trump one of the best POTUS since George Washington...simply because he's a godsend, sticking a log in the Communist wheel spokes.

BTW...as if I needed to clarify your poll options, I'd vote for President Trump more than once if I I thought it would make any difference.

Residing in Midnight Blue Maryland makes that thought moot...like the famous line in Chorus Line: "Committing suicide in Buffalo seems redundant".   :laugh:
« Last Edit: March 24, 2024, 02:53:27 pm by DCPatriot »
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

Online WhatWouldReaganDo

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Calvin Coolidge must be rolling in his grave.
Down the centuries, you have slurred the meaning of the words, "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty, to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution". These words and the words that follow, were not written only for the Yangs, but for the Kohms as well! They must apply to everyone, or they mean nothing! - James Tiberius Kirk

Offline Free Vulcan

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While that may be true, having Vinnie put his boot on my neck and making me an offer I can't refuse isn't going to motivate me.

Just earn my vote dude.
The Republic is lost.

Online libertybele

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Thanks @art.prout !

Like it or not, it is what it is.

We may not agree on what we want, but I think we can agree on what we do not want.

Sadly, few are even thinking about 'next time' yet, and the GOP or whoever represents the anti-totalitarian political factions of us out there should be thinking three or four elections ahead, and looking for candidates for then, too. The herd will get smaller as the elections approach.

There is so much focus on this election. Personally, I find it disheartening.

The RNC was mentioned.  Well, it just so happens now that Trump's daughter-in-law is assisting in funneling donations from the RNC into the pockets of  Trump to help with his legal battles.  A man who claimed to have millions at his disposal.  Regardless of what transpires the fact is he is taking money from those who are struggling down ballot.  Thinking that there is any chance of saving this country or at least saving  some part of this country from the top down is frivolous.

Debating back and forth whether or not to cast a vote for Trump is on overkill.  There is too much focus IMHO.

Meanwhile, election integrity remains unchecked. Members of Congress just handed the DEMS a federal red flag law; and now they supposedly are up in arms? Yet the few conservatives left that we have are being ridiculed for yet wanting to oust another failed speakership.  **nononono*

The true focus should be on the border.  We are being invaded.  IIRC 26 governor have gotten together and sent Guardsmen to the border to help in TX.  We have a battle on our hands at our shoreline in FL from being invaded.  Think what is going to happen if the conservative governors that we do have or unable to retain their seats?? 

Where oh where is the uprising from ALL American citizens? This should not be a political issue for crying out loud.  Our country is no longer being quietly taken over, the issue is front and center, yet most seem focused on an election that really isn't going to matter (provided our country lasts that long), because as mentioned, the election will be manipulated anyways.

Focusing on future elections??? What future elections if we can't stop the invasion that is likely to stop this election from even happening and also considering the known underhandedness and pure evilness found within both parties.

I Believe in the United States of America as a Government of the people, by the people, for the people; whose just powers are derived from the consent of the governed; a democracy in a republic; a sovereign nation of many sovereign states; a perfect union one and inseparable; established upon those principles of freedom, equality, justice and humanity for which American patriots sacrificed their lives and fortunes.  I therefore believe it is my duty to my country to love it; to support its Constitution; to obey its laws to respect its flag; and to defend it against all enemies.

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@art.prout

Thank you for taking the time to compose this thoughtful and oh so relevant post! I completely concur with every word you said FWIW to you. I'll be voting straight Republican in November as I see no viable alternative.
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Online Hoodat

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Calvin Coolidge must be rolling in his grave.

You got that right.
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Online Hoodat

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I can't help you (or even begin to dialogue with you) if you:

  • Absolutely 'hate' Trump because he was born in NY and still retains properties and business there...
  • Don't like the way that he looks...
  • Don't like the way that he talks... (I often shift between cringing and laughing out loud when he is "on a roll!")
  • Wish that he was more (book) scholarly and often quoted the Founders or their resources such as Locke and Montesquieu...
  • Wish that he focused his attacks and venom on the particular segment of the US population that you have the most issues with...

All strawmans.


  • Can't let go of the fact that he vanquished your chosen candidate in 2016 or 2024...

Not the vanquishing itself.  But the complete lack of integrity in doing so.  I don't like it when Democrats lie about Republicans.  And that includes Democrats pretending to be Republicans.


  • Are angry that he doesn't focus in on the particular issue (and we have more 'issues' than you may imagine) that you believe to be the root of all of the problems...

It's not that he doesn't focus in.  It's that he exacerbates the issue.

But no need to worry.  I'm not asking for your help (nor your dialog) on any of your bogus points.


Fact is this: Donald Trump will be the GOP nominee for President this coming November

So?


Another fact is: Joe biden (or someone that he is replaced with that is more likely to be even more effective at destroying the United States of America) will be the opponent of Donald Trump.

So?  If you can't make a convincing case to vote for Trump without mentioning Biden, then you can't make a convincing case to vote for Trump.  Besides, on the #1 issue facing America today, Trump and Biden are identical.


(It is my supposition (that may prove to be correct, or not) that RFK, Jr. and any other 3rd party nominees that may surface, will not have sufficient impact to alter the (actual) election results.)

So?


I also take it as a given that there will be massive vote fraud that may or may not substantively impact the results (especially the EC tally).

That's a reason NOT to vote for Trump since he did absolutely NOTHING to correct this during his four years in office.


Having cleared the air, let me begin my attempt to convince you that Donald Trump is Your Last Best (Only) Chance...

The first thing that we need to come to grips with is that whatever you may have thought about (or even still had slim hopes for) what the "Republican Party" (i.e., GOP, or more pointedly the private corporation known as the Republican National Committee (RNC)) stood for, represented, or is actively engaged in, most likely needs to be flushed down the toilet.

  • The RNC has absolutely no interest in fielding and supporting a "conservative" (in the manner that you most likely define such) candidate for POTUS.
  • The RNC cares little if their POTUS candidate wins the election or not.
  • The RNC has willingly (and gleefully for some part) accepted their corporate role in both the charade that has been running that purports to make 'politics' and the electoral process about the will and benefit of the American people, and the absolute and total destruction of the United States of America.

More reasons NOT to vote for Trump.

Trump is the guy who saved Mitch McConnell's career in 2014.  He filled the RNC convention hall with GOP Establishment delegates in 2016 and again in 2020.  He picked Reince Priebus as his Chief of Staff, filled his cabinet with GOP Swamp critters, and handpicked Ronna McDaniel to run the RNC for the next six years.  He backed McCarthy for Speaker, promoted Milley, and ceded all Covid decision-making over to Fauci and all his Swamp allies at the CDC.

The GOP signed on with Donald Trump to do one thing - eliminate the Tea Party threat coming from the grass roots at every State GOP convention.  Trump scratched their back, and they scratched his.  Trump is deeply in bed with the GOP.  He is part of the problem, not part of the solution.


This little essay isn't intended to be a historical document, maybe the discussion can/should veer in that direction.  But I believe that it is suffice to say, for most of you, that this degradation of our country, and its political and social environment, has been a long running, fully thought out, plan for many decades...  most likely since before you were born.

This political cartoon from the 1930s provides an accurate illustration of what how our country is being destroyed.



Unfortunately, Trump has already assumed his spot atop the wagon.


I have a First Edition copy of Carroll Quigley's Tragedy and Hope: A History of the World in Our Time in which he clearly laid out the purpose and design of the "two party system" and how it has (with keen foresight!) brought us to this point.

I have a Constitution written by Madison, Franklin, Hamilton, Mason, Wythe, et al.  It clearly lays out the limitations on the national government.


To come to grips with the REALITY that we face, there a certain things that we must understand and accept:

  • The heart of man is evil.
  • Over time, the force of evil will prevail (in THIS world) to the point of total destruction.  (Our ultimate salvation is only found in a willing acceptance of Jesus Christ as our personal Lord and Savior.)
  • Greed and the Will to Power is the guiding force of those that have amassed the wealth required to subvert and destroy the collective will and liberty of free people.
  • As founded, the United States of America has always been a block and deterrent force against the desires and goals of those that wish to destroy the collective will and liberty of free people.
  • Since its inception, these forces have been aligned and arrayed to destroy the United States of America.
  • They are getting really close.

I agree with that.  But it is not a reason to vote for Donald Trump.


It has pretty much come down to this simple equation:  There are marxist/communist forces aligned to hasten the complete destruction of the United States of America as a viable and effective force and haven for liberty and free peoples that thrive under the bounds and direction of Natural Law.  Donald Trump (with all of his warts, flaws, and shortcomings) represents the ONLY choice that is available to you as an attempt to thwart (at least for a short time) these forces.

A logical fallacy.  Trump isn't the only choice.  And he certainly isn't the best choice since he espouses the very thing that empowers the marxist forces.


Sucks that it isn't different.  Sucks that it has to be Trump.  Sucks that it has devolved to this point, and so damn quickly in recent years.  But, it is what it is.  Suck it up and accept that, or don't.

It sucks that when given a choice, people chose to elevate a candidate based on personality or emotional comfort instead of basing it on restoring this nation to what G-d intended.  So suck that up.


As an aside:
- "Freedom Cities" and a "Baby Bonus" have always been spur of the moment 'brain farts' that spewed out of an undisciplined candidate.  They ain't happening and will never see the light of day again.

Undisciplined?  The man lived in the White House for four years.  He's had another four years to reflect on his mistakes.  And yet he is still spewing forth the same old socialist bullshit even to this day.  It's not that he's undisciplined.  It's because that is who he really is.  And if you listen to his supporters, they are OK with it.  They won't hesitate to denigrate Conservatism just to prove how much they worship Trump.


- Extreme tariffs applied (particularly to CCP goods) are never intended to be paid by consumers, they are intended to destroy the (CCP's) ability to sell those goods in the US market.

But they are paid by US Consumers.  That's how tariffs work.  It doesn't matter what your intent is.  No different than Democrats pushing food stamps.  Sure, their 'intent' is to feed people.  But instead they transform humans into leeches.

If you want to destroy China's ability to sell goods in the US market, then ban imports from countries that won't play by the rules.  It really is that simple.  But it would take a real leader to do something like that.  Instead, we get one who takes his lead from Smoot-Hawley.


- Donald Trump has as much ability to affect and impact the obscene and terminal (at least in economic terms) debt burden that those forces bent on destroying the US have created, as you and I.  That is why he spends little time on addressing it.

Bullshit.  The Executive Branch leader has more power than anyone on the planet.  He alone gets to decide whether the monies that Congress appropriated get spent.  He alone gets to veto spending bills.  He alone sets the tone.  But of course that would require a real leader to do those things.  Clearly, Donald Trump is not such a leader.


If you have bothered to read this essay to this point: Thanks!  I hope that it at least gives you something to think about.  If it didn't, I apologize for wasting your time.  Each of us, God willing, will be able to vote (or not vote) for POTUS in November, I truly hope that you each will vote in a manner that gives you peace and comfort (and makes the most sense for your, and your offspring's interests).

Thank you for posting, @art.prout .  I am always open to discuss matters such as this.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

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Offline roamer_1

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What @Hoodat said. Chapter and verse.

 :beer: :yowsa:

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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I respect the obvious time, effort, and thought that went into this.  But like your opening salvo of the things that make discussion impossible, I have an insurmountable issue with a section of your post:
Quote
The heart of man is evil.

Just at the outset, I have always rejected the blanket statement that "the heart of man is evil".  I believe that is a nihilistic, self-consuming belief that is more or less an insult to God.  I believe God created in us the potential for both good and evil, and the ability to choose between the two.

The only thing that makes the concept of self-government viable is that most men do not have evil hearts.  In contrast, it is the belief that all of us inherently evil-hearted men must be ruled by a small group of elites who do not have evil hearts that justifies domination by kings, dictators, despots, and worse.   A belief in self-government requires a belief that people are more good than evil.

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.  Over time, the force of evil will prevail (in THIS world) to the point of total destruction.  (Our ultimate salvation is only found in a willing acceptance of Jesus Christ as our personal Lord and Savior.)Greed and the Will to Power is the guiding force of those that have amassed the wealth required to subvert and destroy the collective will and liberty of free people.

Okay, but then why in the world should we believe that a guy who appear to have 1) all the religious faith of your average lamppost, 2) potential issues with both greed and the love of power, and 3) almost total ignorance of the founding documents and history of our country, is the right guy to address the problems with the country?  And in case there was confusion, I'm referring to Trump here.

Lacking both religious faith and a solid foundation in the principles of this country's founding would seem to be a disqualifier.



« Last Edit: March 26, 2024, 12:28:11 am by Maj. Bill Martin »

Offline roamer_1

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I respect the obvious time, effort, and thought that went into this.  But like your opening salvo of the things that make discussion impossible, I have an insurmountable issue with a section of your post:
Just at the outset, I have always rejected the blanket statement that "the heart of man is evil".  I believe that is a nihilistic, self-consuming belief that is more or less an insult to God.  I believe God created in us the potential for both good and evil, and the ability to choose between the two.


Hold on now... YAH said the heart of Man is evil. That is the product of the fall. So to frame the phrase as being 'an insult to God' is incorrect.

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The only thing that makes the concept of self-government viable is that most men do not have evil hearts.  In contrast, it is the belief that all of us inherently evil-hearted men must be ruled by a small group of elites who do not have evil hearts that justifies domination by kings, dictators, despots, and worse.   A belief in self-government requires a belief that people are more good than evil.


I would offer another interpretation. BECAUSE Man is evil, the strictures on government found in the Constitution were created. LAW was limited precisely to prevent evil from gaining any real power strong enough to over power the people and have its way. And it WILL. Any time it CAN.

So I am off from you a touch... But with you in spirit

Online Hoodat

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The only thing that makes the concept of self-government viable is that most men do not have evil hearts.

No.  The only thing that makes the concept of self-government viable is self-restraint.  Man on his own will always devolve to his base (sin) nature.  That is why G-d put in checks and balances.  There are too many examples of what happens when man is put in charge, placing his good intentions above the will of G-d.

Man is indeed inherently evil.  Which is why we need redemption.  The original sin was independence from G-d.  And look how that turned out.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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No.  The only thing that makes the concept of self-government viable is self-restraint.  Man on his own will always devolve to his base (sin) nature.  That is why G-d put in checks and balances.  There are too many examples of what happens when man is put in charge, placing his good intentions above the will of G-d.

Man is indeed inherently evil.  Which is why we need redemption.  The original sin was independence from G-d.  And look how that turned out.

Truly evil hearts don't believe in self-restraint.   I believe that we have the capacity to do evil.  We also have to capacity to do good.   My personal life experience is that there are more generally good hearts than generally evil ones.

To me, a belief that we have evil hearts excuses evil because "God made me that way."

Nope, buddy, God didn't make you evil.  He gave you the capacity to choose evil.or good, and you chose evil.

No soup for you!

Offline roamer_1

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No.  The only thing that makes the concept of self-government viable is self-restraint.  Man on his own will always devolve to his base (sin) nature.  That is why G-d put in checks and balances.  There are too many examples of what happens when man is put in charge, placing his good intentions above the will of G-d.

Man is indeed inherently evil.  Which is why we need redemption.  The original sin was independence from G-d.  And look how that turned out.

That's right. Much later look at what he said when they came before him begging for a king like the other nations had round about.  Look at what Yah said to em right there.

The shining difference that made America great was no king, and a faith in Yah.

     "I sought for the key to the greatness of America in her harbors...; in her fertile fields and boundless forests; in her rich mines and vast world commerce; in her public school system and institutions of learning. I sought for it in her democratic Congress and in her matchless Constitution. Not until I went into the churches of America and heard her pulpits aflame with righteousness did I understand the secret of her genius and power. America is great because America is good, and if America ever ceases to be good, America will cease to be great." -Alexis de Tocqueville


You wanna fix it? Start here   pointing-up :yowsa:

Online Hoodat

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To me, a belief that we have evil hearts excuses evil because "God made me that way."

Nope, buddy, God didn't make you evil.  He gave you the capacity to choose evil.or good, and you chose evil.

No soup for you!

It all goes back to the Garden.  We chose to leave.  Out of love, He gave us a way to return.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-