Author Topic: Ukraine 4  (Read 521191 times)

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Offline libertybele

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #850 on: July 07, 2023, 08:12:49 pm »
@libertybele,surrender monkey.

We actually have a very good chance of destroying the Communist control over Russia,thus eliminating our most dangerous potential enemy without losing a single US soldier in combat,and you want to whine about it.

@sneakypete  -- you completely missed my point.

Surrender monkey....whatever.   *****rollingeyes*****

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #851 on: July 07, 2023, 08:15:37 pm »
Hey everybody, welcome @MeganC over from TOS!  She got zinged by JR yesterday on behalf of that self-righteous, holier-than-thou hypocrite Allegra.

@MeganC

Welcome - a fellow refugee from That Other Site.  Bruce Campbells Chin over there.

Offline ScottinVA

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #852 on: July 07, 2023, 09:30:44 pm »

I'm sure a lot of people on the TOS would believe it.

The Putin poofters on TOS jerk themselves silly at any claim that supports their beloved Vladimir.

Offline ScottinVA

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #853 on: July 07, 2023, 09:31:19 pm »
@MeganC

Welcome - a fellow refugee from That Other Site.  Bruce Campbells Chin over there.

Welcome Megan C!

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #854 on: July 07, 2023, 10:08:03 pm »
Hey everybody, welcome @MeganC over from TOS!  She got zinged by JR yesterday on behalf of that self-righteous, holier-than-thou hypocrite Allegra.

Why don't she write?
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #855 on: July 07, 2023, 10:13:52 pm »
@sneakypete

 -- you completely missed my point.

@libertybele

No,I didn't. YOU completely missed reality.

Surrender monkey....whatever.   *****rollingeyes*****

Anyone not willing to fight for their feedom does not deserve to live free. They are surrender monkies,who only live because there are better people than they who are willing to risk their lives so you surrender monkeys can do your little "we are superior evolved beings" dance on the bones of better people than you will ever be.

You live thanks to the grace,courage,and efforts of people far more deserving of life than you.

Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline Timber Rattler

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #856 on: July 08, 2023, 08:18:30 am »
Prigozhin has been cast out into the cold


https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/06/europe/prigozhin-lukashenko-analysis-intl/index.html

Quote
If we learned one thing from Thursday’s press conference by Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko, it’s that Wagner chief Yevgeny Prigozhin, who has not been seen in public since June 24, appears to be in a decidedly perilous limbo.

Lukashenko put a gulf of distance between himself and Prigozhin the Wagner boss when he said that neither Prigozhin nor his mercenaries were in Belarus, and it was unclear if they would ever move here.

“He is in St Petersburg. Or maybe this morning he would travel to Moscow or elsewhere,” Lukashenko said in response to a question from CNN. “But he is not on the territory of Belarus now.”

When Lukashenko was said to have brokered a deal to end Prigozhin’s would-be insurrection in Russia last month, Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov said that the agreement came about because Prigozhin and Lukashenko had known each other “personally for a long time, for about 20 years.”

But on Thursday, Lukashenko said that it was Putin who was Prigozhin’s longtime friend, who knew him “much better than I do and knows him longer than I do, about 30 years.”

Neither leader seems too keen on being Prigozhin’s best friend now.

One of the final straws for Prigozhin’s longstanding tensions with the Russian Defense Ministry was the insistence that Wagner mercenaries sign contracts with the Russian government; Prigozhin refused.

But on Thursday, Lukashenko insisted that were Wagner to come to Belarus, its mercenaries would have to sign documents with Belarus’ government.

“When they decide to be located in Belarus, we will draft up a contract with them,” he said.

Just as we were learning that Prigozhin was in Russia, not Belarus, Russian state media released images from a reported police raid on Prigozhin’s office and residence in St. Petersburg. The footage — described by presenters as “scandalous” — shows what is described as a stash of gold, money and wigs, along with weapons and several passports apparently belonging to Prigozhin under different aliases.

EXCERPT

Sucks to be that guy.
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Offline libertybele

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #857 on: July 08, 2023, 09:55:56 am »


You live thanks to the grace,courage,and efforts of people far more deserving of life than you.

Wow. Obviously you feel so superior to me, to judge me.  What an azzhat!

Have a great day @sneakypete    End of conversation.

Offline PeteS in CA

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #858 on: July 08, 2023, 11:36:47 am »
Please discuss the facts of the Ukraine war and refrain from personal attacks.
I am not and never have been a leftist.

If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.

Offline libertybele

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #859 on: July 08, 2023, 02:31:10 pm »
Please discuss the facts of the Ukraine war and refrain from personal attacks.

I hear you.... I'm just tired of the implications and accusations. 

Offline libertybele

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #860 on: July 08, 2023, 03:26:16 pm »
Cluster bombs: Unease grows over US sending cluster bombs to Ukraine

Several allies of the US have expressed unease at Washington's decision to supply Ukraine with cluster bombs.

On Friday, the US confirmed it was sending the controversial weapons to Ukraine, with President Joe Biden calling it a "very difficult decision".

In response, the UK, Canada and Spain all pointed out that they were opposed to the use of the weapons.

Cluster bombs have been banned by more than 100 countries because of the danger they pose to civilians.

They typically release large numbers of smaller bomblets that can kill indiscriminately over a wide area, while those that fail to explode pose a danger for decades after a conflict ends.

Mr Biden told CNN in an interview on Friday that he had spoken to allies about the decision, which was part of a military aid package worth $800m (£626m).

The president said it had taken him "a while to be convinced to do it", but he had acted because "the Ukrainians are running out of ammunition".

The decision was quickly criticised by human rights groups, with Amnesty International saying cluster munitions pose "a grave threat to civilian lives, even long after the conflict has ended".

And on Saturday, some Western allies of the US refused to endorse its decision................

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-66144153

Offline Kamaji

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #861 on: July 08, 2023, 03:36:35 pm »
To quote @Maj. Bill Martin from another thread entirely:

Quote
Okay...the M777 is a 155mm artillery system that is tailor made to fire what are known in the business as Dual-Use Improved Conventional Munitions, or "DPICM" rounds.  Those are the "cluster bombs" we are sending Ukraine.  Each round contains either 88 or 72 submunitions that are very effective against personnel and light armor.  Those literally were the default rounds -- the most effective round -- for our artillery in anything but urban environments, and sometimes even there.  We'd have to quadruple, at least, the number of artillery tubes given to the Ukrainians, and the same with ammunition, to get the same killing power they'd get from using DPICM rounds.

They are the exact kind of weapon we should be providing to Ukraine.

Source:  https://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,504812.msg2863432.html#msg2863432

Offline 240B

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #862 on: July 08, 2023, 08:43:49 pm »
Simple truth, most of russians view Ukraine as own land and support war. rest of them just don't give a fk
You cannot "COEXIST" with people who want to kill you.
If they kill their own with no conscience, there is nothing to stop them from killing you.
Rational fear and anger at vicious murderous Islamic terrorists is the same as irrational antisemitism, according to the Leftists

Offline 240B

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #863 on: July 08, 2023, 10:45:16 pm »
For the sake of all the people living in former russian space
You cannot "COEXIST" with people who want to kill you.
If they kill their own with no conscience, there is nothing to stop them from killing you.
Rational fear and anger at vicious murderous Islamic terrorists is the same as irrational antisemitism, according to the Leftists

Offline Kamaji

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #864 on: July 09, 2023, 10:17:12 am »
Furious Vladimir Putin sacks top general in charge of the war against Ukraine as he continues 'purge' of top brass following Wagner coup

General Valery Gerasmov, 67, has been purged as Russian conflict commander

By WILL STEWART and ARTHUR PARASHAR
9 July 2023

Russian dictator Vladimir Putin has sacked a top general in charge of the war against Ukraine as he continues his purge of the top brass following Wagner's attempted coup last month.

General Valery Gerasimov, 67, has been ousted as conflict commander less than six months after he was appointed. He has been replaced by Colonel-General Mikhail Teplinskiy, according to Russian media.

The truculent move by Putin - which has not officially been confirmed - is the latest upheaval in the command of his almost 17-month invasion of Ukraine.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12279617/Furious-Vladimir-Putin-sacks-general-charge-war-against-Ukraine.html

Offline Kamaji

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #865 on: July 09, 2023, 10:18:29 am »
Moment Russian ammunition dump explodes in massive fireball 'hit by Storm Shadow missile supplied to Ukraine by Britain'

Footage showed the giant pulsating inferno raging in the eastern Luhansk region
Russian occupation officials did not immediately comment on the strike

By CHRISTIAN OLIVER and WILL STEWART
8 July 2023

A suspected UK-supplied Storm Shadow missile has destroyed a major Russian ammunition warehouse in occupied Ukraine as Kyiv's forces continue to push back against Moscow.

Footage showed the giant pulsating inferno raging in the eastern Luhansk region following the devastating missile strike.

The strike was in Sukhodilsk, close to Ukraine's international border with Russia - around 6 miles (around 10km) from the country.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12277763/Moment-Russian-ammunition-dump-explodes-massive-fireball-hit-Storm-Shadow-missile.html

Offline kevindavis007

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #866 on: July 09, 2023, 10:18:58 am »
For the sake of all the people living in former russian space


I want Russia to drag China down as well
Join The Reagan Caucus: https://reagancaucus.org/ and the Eisenhower Caucus: https://EisenhowerCaucus.org

Ronald Reagan: “Rather than...talking about putting up a fence, why don’t we work out some recognition of our mutual problems and make it possible for them to come here legally with a work permit…earning here they pay taxes here.”

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #867 on: July 09, 2023, 11:52:04 am »

I want Russia to drag China down as well

@kevindavis007

I would LOVE to see China dragged down,but that is not going to happen as long as they are business partners with Wall Street.

Hell,China may have already collapsed if we hadn't agreed to sell them the tools and technology to build things like GM automatic transmissions cheaper than GM could build them here in the US.

I could very well be wrong,but I see no way for China to even be able to afford to feed and house their current population without the aide of western money and governments.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline DefiantMassRINO

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #868 on: July 09, 2023, 01:03:37 pm »
Chi-coms want more natural resources and territory for growth; Russia has plenty of both.

Russia will become indebted to the Chi-coms, and Chi-coms will ask for repayment in the form of greater access to and influence over eastern Russia and former Soviet republics.

China will become Russia's mortgage holder; Russia will be forced to give its house key over to their lien holder, the Chi-coms.
"Political correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it’s entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." - Alan Simpson, Frontline Video Interview

Offline libertybele

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #869 on: July 09, 2023, 01:32:32 pm »
Chi-coms want more natural resources and territory for growth; Russia has plenty of both.

Russia will become indebted to the Chi-coms, and Chi-coms will ask for repayment in the form of greater access to and influence over eastern Russia and former Soviet republics.

China will become Russia's mortgage holder; Russia will be forced to give its house key over to their lien holder, the Chi-coms.

I believe you are absolutely correct.

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #870 on: July 09, 2023, 05:02:08 pm »
Chi-coms want more natural resources and territory for growth; Russia has plenty of both.

Russia will become indebted to the Chi-coms, and Chi-coms will ask for repayment in the form of greater access to and influence over eastern Russia and former Soviet republics.

China will become Russia's mortgage holder; Russia will be forced to give its house key over to their lien holder, the Chi-coms.

@DefiantMassRINO

Yup,and NOT because it HAS to be that way,but because it has to be that way IF THE COMMUNISTS IN POWER NOW WANT TO MAINTAIN THAT POWER OVER THE RUSSIAN PEOPLE.

Enlisting China as an ally is the only way they can do this. The end deal will be China OWNING Russia outright,but the current "commies in charge" will get to stay in office and pretend they are in power.

And if anybody thinks the Soviets were too restrictive when it comes in individual freedoms,public access to actual news,etc,etc,etc,just wait until China is pulling the strings. They will rape Russia of all her natural resources to the point she becomes hopelessly bankrupt,and then just move a few million Chinese citizens  in to become the new Masters there.

Slavs will become slaves in their own  country.

Or more  correctly,slaves to  an outside power instead of their own slave masters. One that is more brutal in every respect that even Stalin was.

"Meet the new boss,MUCH meaner  that even the old boss!"

The worse part of this in MY opinion is that Pooty-Poot and his senior minions  will most likely flee Russia with  every gold coin and piece of jewelry they can come up with,and like like kings off the stolen riches in whatever western nation gives them exile.

« Last Edit: July 09, 2023, 05:05:37 pm by sneakypete »
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #871 on: July 09, 2023, 05:31:53 pm »


Gerasimov is out.  Teplinskiy is in.


Flailing Putin sacks top general in charge of Ukraine war as forces on the backfoot

MATTHEW DOOLEY  |  15:55, Sun, Jul 9, 2023 | UPDATED: 16:16, Sun, Jul 9, 2023


Vladimir Putin has sacked the top general in charge of his war in Ukraine Valery Gerasimov, according to independent Russian media.

Gerasimov, 67, has been replaced as commander of the armed forces in Ukraine after just six months in command while Russian forces face setbacks on the battlefield.

He has been replaced by Colonel-General Mikhail Teplinskiy, according to The Moscow Times citing pro-war Telegram channels. Putin has not officially confirmed the move.

Gerasimov will remain in charge of the Russian armed forces overall as Chief of the General Staff, however, it’s unclear where the general is at the moment - he hasn’t been seen since the Wagner rebellion.  .  .

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1789142/vladimir-putin-russia-valery-gerasimov-ukraine-dxus
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Offline 240B

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #872 on: July 09, 2023, 08:24:30 pm »

Putin seems determined to destroy his national work force.
Sending experienced construction workers, plumbers, and electricians to be slaughtered will have long term repercussions. Especially since Russia does not import/accept low wage foreign workers which has caused a lot of social problems in countries all over the world.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2023, 08:26:08 pm by 240B »
You cannot "COEXIST" with people who want to kill you.
If they kill their own with no conscience, there is nothing to stop them from killing you.
Rational fear and anger at vicious murderous Islamic terrorists is the same as irrational antisemitism, according to the Leftists

Offline Hoodat

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« Last Edit: July 10, 2023, 12:31:58 am by Hoodat »
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline mountaineer

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #874 on: July 10, 2023, 03:59:18 pm »
Biden's State Dept Spokesman: We believe the war has been a strategic failure for Ukraine.

Reporter: Don't you mean 'a strategic failure for Russia?

Spokesman: I'm sorry.. excuse me.. a strategic failure for Ukraine! Thank you for the correction!

https://twitter.com/TimRunsHisMouth/status/1678493550906863643
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Offline Kamaji

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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #876 on: July 10, 2023, 11:24:06 pm »
Russian Submarine commander shot dead

July 10, 2023, 04:12 PM




Stanislav Rzhitsky, the deputy head of the local mobilization department and captain of a Black Sea Fleet submarine, was shot and killed in Russia’s Krasnodar Krai, Russian news agency TASS reported on July 10.

Rzhitsky commanded Oscar II-class nuclear-powered submarine Krasnodar, which was used to launch Kalibr cruise missiles at Ukraine.

According to the report, 42-year-old Rzhitsky was out for a morning run between 7 and 8 a.m. when an unidentified assailant ambushed and shot him several times.  .  .

.  .  .  Some reports suggest that his submarine might have been responsible for a missile attack on Vinnytsia on July 14, 2022, which resulted in the deaths of 27 people, including three children.

https://english.nv.ua/nation/russian-submarine-commander-shot-dead-50337973.html
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline Timber Rattler

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #877 on: July 11, 2023, 05:23:13 am »
Wow, that's going to put a chill in Russian naval officers based in the Black Sea region.
aka "nasty degenerate SOB," "worst of the worst at Free Republic," "Garbage Troll," "Neocon Warmonger," "Filthy Piece of Trash," "damn $#%$#@!," "Silly f'er," "POS," "war pig," "neocon scumbag," "insignificant little ankle nipper," "@ss-clown," "neocuck," "termite," "Uniparty Deep stater," "Never Trump sack of dog feces," "avid Bidenista," "filthy Ukrainian," "war whore," "fricking chump," "psychopathic POS," "depraved SOB," "Never Trump Moron," "Lazarus," and "sock puppet."

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Offline ScottinVA

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #878 on: July 11, 2023, 09:05:04 am »
Russian Submarine commander shot dead

July 10, 2023, 04:12 PM




Stanislav Rzhitsky, the deputy head of the local mobilization department and captain of a Black Sea Fleet submarine, was shot and killed in Russia’s Krasnodar Krai, Russian news agency TASS reported on July 10.

Rzhitsky commanded Oscar II-class nuclear-powered submarine Krasnodar, which was used to launch Kalibr cruise missiles at Ukraine.

According to the report, 42-year-old Rzhitsky was out for a morning run between 7 and 8 a.m. when an unidentified assailant ambushed and shot him several times.  .  .

.  .  .  Some reports suggest that his submarine might have been responsible for a missile attack on Vinnytsia on July 14, 2022, which resulted in the deaths of 27 people, including three children.

https://english.nv.ua/nation/russian-submarine-commander-shot-dead-50337973.html

Glad to see it.  So long as those misshapen, marauding orcs continue raping and pillaging Ukraine, no Russian will be safe... ever.

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #879 on: July 11, 2023, 09:17:40 am »

That's disgusting, and also, if I'm not mistaken, a war crime.

That's insane. For what purposes exactly? To be rehomed with Russian mothers? That's insane. And evil. Not even the Nazis did that shit.

Offline Kamaji

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #880 on: July 11, 2023, 09:30:37 am »
That's insane. For what purposes exactly? To be rehomed with Russian mothers? That's insane. And evil. Not even the Nazis did that shit.

Cultural genocide.

Offline ScottinVA

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #881 on: July 11, 2023, 10:17:27 am »
Cultural genocide.

The day in which Russia no longer exists will be a great day for humanity. 

Offline ScottinVA

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #882 on: July 11, 2023, 10:18:12 am »
That's insane. For what purposes exactly? To be rehomed with Russian mothers? That's insane. And evil. Not even the Nazis did that shit.

Probably to traffic them into sexual slavery, serving their oligarchs.

Offline libertybele

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #883 on: July 11, 2023, 10:38:07 am »
This is dated, but he lays out the statistics.  The amount of money that we have thrown at their war since Sen Paul took to the floor is absolutely ridiculous and unwarranted.


www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2uV4Q9R0bk
« Last Edit: July 11, 2023, 10:41:05 am by libertybele »

Offline Timber Rattler

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #884 on: July 11, 2023, 10:47:40 am »
It's a pittance considering what we would have to pay if we have to fight the Russians ourselves.

So the only way to "save" Ukraine is to force an "unconditional surrender" and dissolution and absorption into Russia? Or else carve it up into a rump, with Russia taking all its natural resources and ports?
aka "nasty degenerate SOB," "worst of the worst at Free Republic," "Garbage Troll," "Neocon Warmonger," "Filthy Piece of Trash," "damn $#%$#@!," "Silly f'er," "POS," "war pig," "neocon scumbag," "insignificant little ankle nipper," "@ss-clown," "neocuck," "termite," "Uniparty Deep stater," "Never Trump sack of dog feces," "avid Bidenista," "filthy Ukrainian," "war whore," "fricking chump," "psychopathic POS," "depraved SOB," "Never Trump Moron," "Lazarus," and "sock puppet."

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Online rangerrebew

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #885 on: July 11, 2023, 10:48:09 am »
Russian submarine commander killed by gunman on morning run
Online news outlets claim that sub commander Stanislav Rzhitsky was involved in missile attack on Ukraine that killed 23 civilians.
 
Published On 11 Jul 2023
11 Jul 2023
A Russian submarine commander and deputy chief in charge of military mobilisation in Russia’s southern city of Krasnodar has been shot dead, Russia’s state TASS news agency reported, citing law enforcement bodies.

According to TASS, the official, Stanislav Rzhitsky, was killed by a gunman on Monday morning and a criminal case into the killing has been opened.
 
The slain official was also the commander of a Russian Black Sea Fleet submarine that local online news outlets in Ukraine claimed was responsible for launching Kalibr cruise missiles at Ukrainian targets.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/7/11/russian-submarine-commander-killed-by-gunman-on-morning-run
The unity of government which constitutes you one people is also now dear to you. It is justly so, for it is a main pillar in the edifice of your real independence, the support of your tranquility at home, your peace abroad; of your safety; of your prosperity; of that very liberty which you so highly prize. But as it is easy to foresee that, from different causes and from different quarters, much pains will be taken, many artifices employed to weaken in your minds the conviction of this truth.  George Washington - Farewell Address

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #886 on: July 11, 2023, 11:05:06 am »
Probably to traffic them into sexual slavery, serving their oligarchs.

Always thought Russians were basically decent humble people, but if that's true, that's just evil.

Edit: the reason I assumed it was to be rehomed with Russian mothers, is the large amount of women on the Zoom call.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2023, 11:06:07 am by Weird Tolkienish Figure »

Offline libertybele

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #887 on: July 11, 2023, 11:10:33 am »
It's a pittance considering what we would have to pay if we have to fight the Russians ourselves.

So the only way to "save" Ukraine is to force an "unconditional surrender" and dissolution and absorption into Russia? Or else carve it up into a rump, with Russia taking all its natural resources and ports?

Pittance??  What $$ and munitions do we have to fight if a war is imposed on us??  China is waiting in the wings.  Also, consider all those terrorists and militants entering our country.

It IS wrong to continue to add fuel to the fire; a war between Russia and Ukraine has been going on for decades.  Brandon has been giving Z $$  and lining his pockets since he took office.  Wrong. Wrong. and Wrong.

Z continue to ask for $$ ... he claims he needs this or that in order to win.  Things continue to escalate and obviously not getting any better.

We should have never gotten involved in the first place.  It is their war, not ours.  Monetarily it has become our war!
« Last Edit: July 11, 2023, 11:12:47 am by libertybele »

Offline Kamaji

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #888 on: July 11, 2023, 11:14:43 am »
Pittance??  What $$ and munitions do we have to fight if a war is imposed on us??  China is waiting in the wings.  Also, consider all those terrorists and militants entering our country.

It IS wrong to continue to add fuel to the fire; a war between Russia and Ukraine has been going on for decades.  Brandon has been giving Z $$  and lining his pockets since he took office.  Wrong. Wrong. and Wrong.

A war hasn't been going on between Ukraine and Russia for decades.  Russia agreed to respect Ukraine's sovereignty, and then, beginning most likely in 2014, decided to subvert that sovereignty.  In the meantime, the U.S. had also agreed to protect Ukraine's sovereignty as part of the bargain for convincing Ukraine to give up its nuclear weapons.  The U.S. has also not been giving Ukraine nothing but money - most of the "money" that has supposedly gone to Ukraine has not, in fact, gone anywheres but to the U.S. military; instead, what has gone has been used and sometimes out-of-date weapons, the original book cost of which we are charging against the amounts allocated to Ukraine.

Offline Timber Rattler

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #889 on: July 11, 2023, 11:55:49 am »
Pittance??  What $$ and munitions do we have to fight if a war is imposed on us??  China is waiting in the wings.

It's far better to spend billions now and let the Ukrainians beat the Russians than having to do it ourselves 3-5 years later at a cost of trillions and thousands of American lives. 

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Also, consider all those terrorists and militants entering our country.

You're conflating the issues.

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It IS wrong to continue to add fuel to the fire;

So forcing Ukraine to unconditionally surrender to Putin and get absorbed into Russia is the Conservative solution?  Doesn't sound very American to me.


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a war between Russia and Ukraine has been going on for decades.
 

That's not true.

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Brandon has been giving Z $$  and lining his pockets since he took office.

You're conflating the issues again.  Sending arms and economic aid to Ukraine does NOT necessarily mean that Biden is "lining his pockets" from it.  That's just an assumption without direct proof.

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Wrong. Wrong. and Wrong.

It's wrong allowing the Russians to overrun Ukraine, and then the Baltics, and ultimately Alaska (which the Russian want back!), killing hundreds of thousands and destroying countless cities and towns in the process.

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Z continue to ask for $$ ... he claims he needs this or that in order to win.

Well, he DOES need it to win. 


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We should have never gotten involved in the first place.  It is their war, not ours.  Monetarily it has become our war!

We got involved when the U.S. guaranteed Ukraine's security in 1994 in exchange for Ukraine giving up its nukes with which to protect itself from Russia.  It has been our war from the start.
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Offline libertybele

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #890 on: July 11, 2023, 12:27:11 pm »
It's far better to spend billions now and let the Ukrainians beat the Russians than having to do it ourselves 3-5 years later at a cost of trillions and thousands of American lives. 

You're conflating the issues.

So forcing Ukraine to unconditionally surrender to Putin and get absorbed into Russia is the Conservative solution?  Doesn't sound very American to me.

I have not once suggested that Ukraine surrender to Putin.
 

That's not true.

You're conflating the issues again.  Sending arms and economic aid to Ukraine does NOT necessarily mean that Biden is "lining his pockets" from it.  That's just an assumption without direct proof.

I have posted several articles with links indicating that Biden & Co.., are lining their pockets.

It's wrong allowing the Russians to overrun Ukraine, and then the Baltics, and ultimately Alaska (which the Russian want back!), killing hundreds of thousands and destroying countless cities and towns in the process.

Obviously attacking Alaska would be a declaration of war -- then it IS our war.  Shelling out $$ to prevent what we think is going to happen is ridiculous.

Well, he DOES need it to win. 

How much $$ are we going to keep dumping??


We got involved when the U.S. guaranteed Ukraine's security in 1994 in exchange for Ukraine giving up its nukes with which to protect itself from Russia.  It has been our war from the start.

So even though Ukraine and Russia have been fighting for decades it's our war??? This goes way beyond 1994.

Offline Kamaji

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #891 on: July 11, 2023, 12:29:14 pm »

So even though Ukraine and Russia have been fighting for decades it's our war??? This goes way beyond 1994.


Except that they haven't been fighting for decades.  Prior to 1991 - which is just barely three decades ago - Ukraine was a component member of the Soviet Union.

Offline PeteS in CA

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #892 on: July 11, 2023, 12:33:45 pm »
Cultural genocide.

Between the Holodomor and efforts to end usage of the Ukrainian language, Soviet/Russian cultural genocide and cultural suppression date from the 1930s until Ukraine became independent. Alongside restoring the Czarist/Stalinist empire, Putin longs for those good old days.
I am not and never have been a leftist.

If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.

Offline libertybele

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #893 on: July 11, 2023, 12:39:46 pm »
Time magazine did an article on "Zelensky's Cash Haul" -- dated, but needs to be acknowledged

https://time.com/6243285/zelenskys-cash-haul/

Offline libertybele

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #894 on: July 11, 2023, 12:42:34 pm »
Last month -- reporting of Brandon pocketing Ukraine money --  anyone still thinks Brandon isn't funneling money to Ukraine into his pocket?

https://www.skynews.com.au/opinion/joe-biden-exposed-for-allegedly-pocketing-5-million-in-ukrainian-bribery-scheme/video/a0a9ec471ed6f94e553b5296580ae7fc


Offline Kamaji

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #895 on: July 11, 2023, 12:43:56 pm »
Time magazine did an article on "Zelensky's Cash Haul" -- dated, but needs to be acknowledged

https://time.com/6243285/zelenskys-cash-haul/

And where is the proof that this has all been siphoned off by Zelenskii - because that is the clear implication of your word-choice.

Or is it just a pavolvian response to Biden?

Offline PeteS in CA

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #896 on: July 11, 2023, 12:58:07 pm »
Time magazine did an article on "Zelensky's Cash Haul" -- dated, but needs to be acknowledged

https://time.com/6243285/zelenskys-cash-haul/

OK, $$ has gone to Ukraine, but as even Slime magazine pointed out in the article you linked, there is no evidence of fraud by Zelensky. OTOH, there is vast evidence that US aid is being used to fight Russian orcs.
I am not and never have been a leftist.

If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.

Offline Kamaji

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #897 on: July 11, 2023, 01:03:53 pm »
Wagner mercenaries reportedly tried to steal backpack-size nukes during mutiny

By Snejana Farberov
July 11, 2023

Wagner Group mercenaries came dangerously close to entering a Russian nuclear base to steal nuclear weapons that could fit into a backpack to use as leverage during their short-lived mutiny last month, according to Ukraine’s chief spymaster.

While the main force of the rebels, directed by Wagner Group founder Yevgeny Prigozhin, rumbled toward Moscow on June 24, purportedly to capture Russia’s top military brass, a smaller group drove east en route to a fortified army base.

Kyrylo Budanov, the 37-year-old head of the Ukrainian Defense Intelligence Directorate, said the mercenaries’ target was Voronezh-45 — a well-guarded facility that purportedly stores small, Soviet-era nuclear bombs that can be carried by a single person in a backpack.

 “Because if you are prepared to fight until the last man standing, this is one of the facilities that significantly raises the stakes,” Budanov told Reuters in an exclusive interview.

The mutineers’ plot to get their hands on nuclear weapons only failed, according to Budanov, because “the doors of the storage were closed and they didn’t get into the technical section.”

The Ukrainian official did not say why Prigozhin’s fighters left the nuclear base without trying to force their way inside.

A source close to the Kremlin with ties to Russia’s military confirmed parts of Budanov’s account, saying that Wagner fighters “managed to get into a zone of special interest, as a result of which the Americans got agitated because nuclear munitions are stored there.”

The rebels’ attempt to steal nuclear explosives was apparently so alarming to the Kremlin that it prompted President Vladimir Putin to agree to a peace deal with Prigozhin, which was hastily brokered by Belarusian leader Alexander Lukashenko, according to a source in Russian-occupied eastern Ukraine.

*  *  *

Source:  https://nypost.com/2023/07/11/wagner-mercenaries-tried-to-steal-nukes-during-mutiny/

Offline libertybele

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #898 on: July 11, 2023, 01:18:50 pm »
OK, $$ has gone to Ukraine, but as even Slime magazine pointed out in the article you linked, there is no evidence of fraud by Zelensky. OTOH, there is vast evidence that US aid is being used to fight Russian orcs.

Both Brandon and Zelensky are lining their pockets...Z is just took over for his predecessor who Hunter and Brandon were 'involved' with.

Offline Kamaji

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #899 on: July 11, 2023, 01:19:51 pm »
Both Brandon and Zelensky are lining their pockets...Z is just took over for his predecessor who Hunter and Brandon were 'involved' with.

Where is the proof of that claim?