Author Topic: DeSantis Says ‘War Criminal’ Putin Should Be ‘Held Accountable’ Days After Saying Ukraine Not a ‘Vit  (Read 1335 times)

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Offline Joe Btfsplk

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Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis toughened his stance on Russian President Vladimir Putin, calling Putin a “war criminal” who should be “held accountable” for the invasion of Ukraine, just days after he claimed the Ukraine war is not a “vital national interest.”

DeSantis angered Republican hawks, Never Trumpers, and neocons less than two weeks ago when he characterized the Ukraine-Russia conflict as a “territorial dispute” that is not a “vital” U.S. interests.

DeSantis told Fox News’s Tucker Carlson:

While the U.S. has many vital national interests — securing our border, addressing the crisis of readiness within our military, achieving energy security and independence, checking the economic, cultural, and military power of the Chinese Communist Party — becoming further entangled in a territorial dispute between Ukraine and Russia is not one of them.

After DeSantis’s initial comments, Never Trumper Adam Kinzinger (IL) dismissed DeSantis as being “in with the crazies,” and former GOP congresswoman Liz Cheney scolded DeSantis for seemingly forgetting “the lessons of Ronald Reagan.”

However, during an interview with Piers Morgan, DeSantis took a tougher position on the Ukraine conflict. In that interview, set to air on Fox Nation on Thursday, DeSantis branded Putin as a “war criminal” and demanded he be “held accountable” for invading Ukraine.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2023/03/22/desantis-says-war-criminal-putin-should-be-held-accountable-days-after-saying-ukraine-not-a-vital-u-s-interest/
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Offline Joe Btfsplk

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Well, that was quick.  And there went my one reason for supporting DeSantis

Chalk one up for the war party
A wise man's heart goes to the right, but a fool's heart to the left.
~Ecclesiastes 10:2

Do not answer a fool according to his folly,
or you yourself will be just like him.
~Proverbs 26:4

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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It's not the 180 the headline suggests.  He clarified that he wasn't saying that Russia was right or justified to take Ukrainian territory, that the invasion was illegal, and that Putin is a scumbag.  But in terms of what the U.S. should or shouldn't do, his position is the same:

Quote
But the reality is what is America’s involvement in terms of escalating with more weapons, and certainly ground troops I think would be a mistake. So, that was the point I was trying to make but Russia was wrong to invade,” DeSantis explained. “They were wrong to take Crimea."

Now personally, that disappoints me because I support sending weaponry (though not U.S. troops) to Ukraine, and DeSantis is no longer my first choice because of that.

« Last Edit: March 23, 2023, 02:11:39 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

Offline LMAO

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Heh - I'm on the opposite side, and this was the one hiccup that had been giving me heartburn about supporting DeSantis.

Back on board the DeSantis train!

If he seeks the GOP nomination, he needs to come up with one Ukrainian policy. It seems like he’s trying to have it both ways a little bit.

He is still my preferred candidate. We cannot afford another Trump/Biden/Trump term. But his Ukraine policy is confusing

Support for sending money to Ukraine is dwindling amongst the general rabble. He either needs to make the case why we need to still be involved to the voters. Or make the case why he thinks we should get out

All this is based on the assumption he seeks  the nomination, of course
« Last Edit: March 23, 2023, 02:13:12 pm by LMAO »
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Online catfish1957

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From my POV. there as far as U.S. intervention not that much difference in Trump's and DeSantis' position.

That's making the RINO establishment heads explode.  And that's a good thing.
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Offline LMAO

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From my POV. there as far as U.S. intervention not that much difference in Trump's and DeSantis' position.

That's making the RINO establishment heads explode.  And that's a good thing.

What is DeSantis’s  position? I understand as a governor of Florida, Ukraine has nothing to do with him. But if he is going to seek the nomination for president, he needs to come up with a very clear one.
We already have a president that projects weakness and indecisiveness on the world stage.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2023, 02:19:28 pm by LMAO »
I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them.

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Online catfish1957

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What is DeSantis’s  position? I understand as a governor of Florida, Ukraine has nothing to do with him. But if he is going to seek the nomination for president, he needs to come up with a very clear one.
We already have a president that projects weakness and indecisiveness on the world stage.

DeSantis' postion on Ukraine was covered in some level of substance in responding to Tucker Carlson's request to all potential GOP candidates.  Check those threads for details.

And yes, as Governor of FL, and not privy to intelligence data, its kind of hard for him to get into specifics.  But at least at 40,000 foot level he doesn't want us to get onto a strong interventionist role.  And that is a view, he, Trump, and I all share. 
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Offline Free Vulcan

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Well, that was quick.  And there went my one reason for supporting DeSantis

Chalk one up for the war party

Wow. that's a pretty hack attempt at a drive- by Mr. Five Posts, but I guess you walked in as our Personal Jesus to lay down Trumpian truth.

It's called walking and chewing gum, and DeSantis is right on both. He's actually able to get past populist generalities on issues.
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Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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From my POV. there as far as U.S. intervention not that much difference in Trump's and DeSantis' position.


Right. I'm not sure DeSantis shares Trump sentiment to immediately cut off all military aid from Ukraine, but he certainly doesn't want to increase it.

His clarification went less to policy than to making clear his position that Russia was completely in the wrong in its actions, and that its invasion was neither excusable nor legitimately provoked. I do think that is a difference from where Trump is, though.

Online catfish1957

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Wow. that's a pretty hack attempt at a drive- by Mr. Five Posts, but I guess you walked in as our Personal Jesus to lay down Trumpian truth.

It's called walking and chewing gum, and DeSantis is right on both. He's actually able to get past populist generalities on issues.

New poster (and a welcome to him)  seems to not remember that DeSantis actually at least from what was provided to Tucker Carlson, a lot more aligned to Trump than McConnell and Linzy Graham on this matter.

Dissing  a sittng Governor of FL, who is not privy to all the intelligence facts at this point seems a little silly.
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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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DeSantis' postion on Ukraine was covered in some level of substance in responding to Tucker Carlson's request to all potential GOP candidates.  Check those threads for details.

His first position:

Quote
Tucker Carlson
@TuckerCarlson

Florida Governor @RonDeSantisFL answers our Ukraine questionnaire:

“While the U.S. has many vital national interests – securing our borders, addressing the crisis of readiness within our military, achieving energy security and independence, and checking the economic, cultural, and military power of the Chinese Communist Party – becoming further entangled in a territorial dispute between Ukraine and Russia is not one of them. The Biden administration’s virtual “blank check” funding of this conflict for “as long as it takes,” without any defined objectives or accountability, distracts from our country’s most pressing challenges.

Without question, peace should be the objective. The U.S. should not provide assistance that could require the deployment of American troops or enable Ukraine to engage in offensive operations beyond its borders.  F-16s and long-range missiles should therefore be off the table. These moves would risk explicitly drawing the United States into the conflict and drawing us closer to a hot war between the world’s two largest nuclear powers. That risk is unacceptable.

A policy of “regime change” in Russia (no doubt popular among the DC foreign policy interventionists) would greatly increase the stakes of the conflict, making the use of nuclear weapons more likely.  Such a policy would neither stop the death and destruction of the war, nor produce a pro-American, Madisonian constitutionalist in the Kremlin. History indicates that Putin’s successor, in this hypothetical, would likely be even more ruthless.  The costs to achieve such a dubious outcome could become astronomical.   

The Biden administration’s policies have driven Russia into a de facto alliance with China. Because China has not and will not abide by the embargo, Russia has increased its foreign revenues while China benefits from cheaper fuel. Coupled with his intentional depletion of the Strategic Petroleum Reserve and support for the Left’s Green New Deal, Biden has further empowered Russia’s energy-dominated economy and Putin’s war machine at Americans’ expense.

Our citizens are also entitled to know how the billions of U.S. taxpayer dollars are being utilized in Ukraine. 

We cannot prioritize intervention in an escalating foreign war over the defense of our own homeland, especially as tens of thousands of Americans are dying every year from narcotics smuggled across our open border and our weapons arsenals critical for our own security are rapidly being depleted."

9:02 PM · Mar 13, 2023

Offline Joe Btfsplk

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Wow. that's a pretty hack attempt at a drive- by Mr. Five Posts, but I guess you walked in as our Personal Jesus to lay down Trumpian truth.

It's called walking and chewing gum, and DeSantis is right on both. He's actually able to get past populist generalities on issues.
Interesting you brought up the Lord. He's my Savior and I claim no other.  I certainly do not consider myself worthy of comparison. But that is a topic for a different discussion.

FYI I "found" this board after doing a search for "Pookie's Tunes" (which used to be on a now defunct board called Front Porch Punditry). However, I've been posting on political BBs since the late 90's, so I'm hardly new.

I am very cynical when it comes to politicians, so perhaps my criticism was somewhat unfair. I want to like DeSantis and I've actually called for Trump with his excess baggage to step aside.

There are too many important issues for the Trumpian bread and circuses
A wise man's heart goes to the right, but a fool's heart to the left.
~Ecclesiastes 10:2

Do not answer a fool according to his folly,
or you yourself will be just like him.
~Proverbs 26:4

Offline Joe Btfsplk

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New poster (and a welcome to him)  seems to not remember that DeSantis actually at least from what was provided to Tucker Carlson, a lot more aligned to Trump than McConnell and Linzy Graham on this matter.

Dissing  a sittng Governor of FL, who is not privy to all the intelligence facts at this point seems a little silly.
Thank you for the welcome.  Please see my previous post to this one.  Hope that clarifies my position
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Offline Free Vulcan

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Interesting you brought up the Lord. He's my Savior and I claim no other.  I certainly do not consider myself worthy of comparison. But that is a topic for a different discussion.

FYI I "found" this board after doing a search for "Pookie's Tunes" (which used to be on a now defunct board called Front Porch Punditry). However, I've been posting on political BBs since the late 90's, so I'm hardly new.

I am very cynical when it comes to politicians, so perhaps my criticism was somewhat unfair. I want to like DeSantis and I've actually called for Trump with his excess baggage to step aside.

There are too many important issues for the Trumpian bread and circuses

You've been here all of 6 posts now, so sorry if I am skeptical.

Welcome to TBR.
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Online catfish1957

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His first position:

It's all a point of perspective, but from mine that seems pretty close to Trump.

And that should make a lot happy including me.  That means that 75-80% of the GOP primary preference voters are seeing their candidate NOT endorse the Ukraine "blank check" approach. 
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline Joe Btfsplk

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Thank you for the welcome

For me personally, the position the eventual GOP candidate takes re: Ukraine will weigh heavily on whether I support him/her or not. A Lindsey Graham level of support will be a deal breaker. To me, that is just insane.

When it comes to these no-win wars, we have no opposition party in DC.  And that's gotta change
A wise man's heart goes to the right, but a fool's heart to the left.
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Do not answer a fool according to his folly,
or you yourself will be just like him.
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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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It's all a point of perspective, but from mine that seems pretty close to Trump.

The first answer *was* close to Trump's ---- damn near plagerized.   :laugh:

But the DeSantis Congressional record on Ukraine is strongly neocon.  The first answer was an attempt to Magatize DeSantis and distance him from his record ----  RDS's donors must have reminded him that they're not paying for America First.

@catfish1957




« Last Edit: March 23, 2023, 05:43:20 pm by Right_in_Virginia »

Online Fishrrman

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None of this will remain relevant by the fall of 2024.

By then, the Chinese will have brokered a peace deal between Russia and Ukraine, if the Ukranians haven't thrown in the towel first...

Online roamer_1

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It's not the 180 the headline suggests.  He clarified that he wasn't saying that Russia was right or justified to take Ukrainian territory, that the invasion was illegal, and that Putin is a scumbag.  But in terms of what the U.S. should or shouldn't do, his position is the same:

Right. I think it a travesty too...
But it is none of our business.

Quote
Now personally, that disappoints me because I support sending weaponry (though not U.S. troops) to Ukraine, and DeSantis is no longer my first choice because of that.

SELL em arms? Sure.
Give em arms? Nope.

It is far more in Europe's interest to worry about Ukraine.
Not our problem.

Offline libertybele

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Right. I think it a travesty too...
But it is none of our business.

SELL em arms? Sure.
Give em arms? Nope.

It is far more in Europe's interest to worry about Ukraine.
Not our problem.

I agree with both of you. We also shouldn't be giving them billions upon billions.  There's seems to be no limit as to how much we are handing them.
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Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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I agree with both of you. We also shouldn't be giving them billions upon billions.  There's seems to be no limit as to how much we are handing them.

Not sure who you mean by "both of you", but I am very strongly in the "bleed Russia dry" category of supporting Ukraine militarily as long as they are willing to fight.

I've said elsewhere that I think it's the biggest bang for the buck we've ever gotten out of our defense dollars.

@libertybele

Offline Free Vulcan

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Not sure who you mean by "both of you", but I am very strongly in the "bleed Russia dry" category of supporting Ukraine militarily as long as they are willing to fight.

I've said elsewhere that I think it's the biggest bang for the buck we've ever gotten out of our defense dollars.

@libertybele

And what if they end up bleeding us dry? Then what? This is the old Cold War thinking, and China is counting on that.
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Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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And what if they end up bleeding us dry? Then what? This is the old Cold War thinking, and China is counting on that.

What we are spending to support Ukraine, not to mention the cost in lives, is dwarfed by the comparative burden on Russia's economy.  The Russian conventional military is being absolutely gutted.

Online bigheadfred

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And what if they end up bleeding us dry? Then what? This is the old Cold War thinking, and China is counting on that.

What is the new Cold war thinking? Is there really such a thing?
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Offline Free Vulcan

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What is the new Cold war thinking? Is there really such a thing?

That we are strong enough to grind out these kinds of expensive blood and treasure strategies on two fronts, and we aren't.

If we get distracted by the shiny disco ball, and China takes Taiwan and their chip making capacity without destroying it, the USA will be in a world of hurt.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2023, 04:42:52 pm by Free Vulcan »
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