Author Topic: Hazardous Ohio Train Derailment Live | A Horrific Environmental Disaster Is Happening In Ohio  (Read 8234 times)

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Offline mystery-ak

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Hazardous Ohio Train Derailment Live | A train derailment on Feb 3 in Ohio has turned into a full-fledged environmental disaster, and it’s received surprisingly little national media coverage.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Hr9ZDALaEM&ab_channel=TIMESNOW
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Meghan McCain
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So, a train derailed in Ohio on Friday carry hazardous materials - there is now a 10 mile radius of toxic fumes, and the Ohio river is now testing positive for toxic chemicals.

And golden boy Mayor Pete and the White House HAVE NOTHING TO SAY?!? Is this America?!? THIS IS INSANE
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Gross incompetence on the part of the Secretary of Transportation.  Why isn't Buttgeig there in person?

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Company Responsible For Ohio Train Derailment Issues List Of Cancer-Causing Substances Released
By  Ben Zeisloft

Feb 13, 2023   DailyWire.com

Norfolk Southern Railroad and the Environmental Protection Agency released a list of chemicals and hazardous materials on Sunday carried by a train that derailed in East Palestine, Ohio.

The derailment, which occurred on February 3, caused a fire that lasted several days. Officials decided to initiate a controlled release of the chemicals to mitigate the risk of an explosion; all residents within one mile of the crash site were told to evacuate, although they were permitted to return to their homes on February 8.

Norfolk Southern provided the EPA with a list of cars affected by the crash and the chemicals they were carrying. The company said all five cars containing vinyl chloride have been “stabilized” after the material was burned by crews, forming massive plumes of dark smoke that were visible in eastern Ohio and western Pennsylvania.

Vinyl chloride is described by the National Cancer Institute as a carcinogen linked to a rare form of liver cancer called hepatic angiosarcoma, as well as lymphoma, leukemia, and various forms of brain and lung cancers. The Occupational Safety and Health Administration only permits exposure of one part per million during an industrial worker’s eight-hour shift.

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https://www.dailywire.com/news/company-responsible-for-ohio-train-derailment-issues-list-of-cancer-causing-substances-released
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Gross incompetence on the part of the Secretary of Transportation.  Why isn't Buttgeig there in person?

He’s probably still on maternity leave…
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Quote
Are they trying to cover it up because of the chemical cloud or because they have to admit there’s a geographical location called Palestine?
It's East Palestine, and it has no more to do with the middle eastern "Palestine" than nearby East Liverpool has anything to do with the Beatles' hometown.
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Vinyl Chloride, a deadly chemical has “contaminated the Ohio River due to train derailment

The Ohio River, which serves over 10% of the US Population, has reportedly become contaminated due to chemicals from the East Palestine train derailment. The river supplies public drinking water to over 5 million people in addition to industries all the way to West Virginia, effecting over 30 million people who live in the Ohio River Basin.

https://twitter.com/rawsalerts/status/1625249507762925581

This is the source of our drinking water. Guess I'll be buying a few more cases of drinking water tomorrow - if I can find it.
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Offline Fishrrman

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Looks like a roller bearing on one of the trucks failed. It may have held on for a while (hence, the video with the sparks/fire some miles back), and then "let go" quickly. It wasn't on a tank car, either, but on a covered hopper.

I haven't read anywhere as to WHERE the failure occurred in the train -- toward the head end, middle, toward the rear, etc.

I read earlier that the train had something like 141 loads and a few empties, getting close to 150 cars. With car lengths in a general freight train running 50-70 feet long, that's a mile-and-a-half +/-.

On the engine, you just can't see back that far. In most places you're lucky if you can see 30-40 cars back, if that far.

But these days, with their new-fangled concept of "precision scheduled railroading", they double-up two trains into one monster train, and run that (often with an engine "in the middle" and perhaps another on the rear, all controlled from the head unit). Fewer crews, less fuel consumed, more $$$ per train.

This can make handling more difficult, as well.

It will be interesting to see how the FRA addresses this. In the case of an accident with serious side effects (such as this one with the release of toxic chemicals, the full extent of which isn't yet known) there's going to be pressure to "do something". Usually this means some new kind of operating rule or federal regulation.

But not sure what they can do here. If the engineer wasn't doing anything he shouldn't have been doing (over the speed limit, etc), and the trackside defect detector didn't sound off until immediately before the train derailed (sounds like that's what happened), they probably can't pin this on the crew (which is the easy way out insofar as the company and feds are concerned).

They might go after the car department for not inspecting the train properly, but if the defect had not yet developed at the time the train left its initial starting point or passed the last point where there was "human inspection", can't go after them, either.

I'm thinking the feds may order that cars containing particularly hazardous materials travel in shorter, dedicated "haz/mat" trains, with lower speeds and frequent "human" inspections.

[Hey, did I ever tell ya about the time I had a special tank train of 40 cars of sulfuric acid, with NO BRAKES? No "properly working brakes", anyway. Got it from Pt. Jervis (NY/NJ/PA border) to Oak Island (outside Newark) without "using the air", at all!]

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Vinyl Chloride, a deadly chemical has “contaminated the Ohio River due to train derailment

The Ohio River, which serves over 10% of the US Population, has reportedly become contaminated due to chemicals from the East Palestine train derailment. The river supplies public drinking water to over 5 million people in addition to industries all the way to West Virginia, effecting over 30 million people who live in the Ohio River Basin.

https://twitter.com/rawsalerts/status/1625249507762925581

This is the source of our drinking water. Guess I'll be buying a few more cases of drinking water tomorrow - if I can find it.
I think the word everyone is really looking for is "affected" (to be influenced by) as opposed to "effected" (to cause to happen).

Sorry, pet peeve.
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Offline Kamaji

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I think the word everyone is really looking for is "affected" (to be influenced by) as opposed to "effected" (to cause to happen).

Sorry, pet peeve.

Yup. It’s a pet peeve of mine as well.

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Sorry, didn't notice the tweeter's typo or I would have corrected it.

Meanwhile:
Quote
EPA letter lists 3 other chemicals on derailed train cars in East Palestine
KDKA Pittsburgh
February 13, 2023 / 2:38 PM / CBS/AP

EAST PALESTINE, Ohio (KDKA/AP) - The EPA sent a letter to Norfolk Southern listing three other chemicals that were on the train cars that were breached or on fire after the derailment in East Palestine.

A hazardous materials specialist told CBS affiliate WKBN that one of those, ethylhexyl acrylate, is especially concerning because it's a carcinogen and can cause burning to the eyes and skin and breathing it in can cause issues.  ...

Vinyl chloride was slowly released into the air last Monday from five of those cars before crews ignited it to get rid of the highly flammable, toxic chemicals in a controlled environment, creating a dark plume of smoke.

Officials warned the controlled burn would send phosgene and hydrogen chloride into the air. Phosgene is a highly toxic, colorless gas with a strong odor that can cause vomiting and breathing trouble and was used as a weapon in World War I. 

Silvero Caggiano advises people in the area to get a health check-up and monitor their health moving forward. ...
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« Last Edit: February 13, 2023, 07:32:36 pm by mountaineer »
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Looks like a roller bearing on one of the trucks failed. It may have held on for a while (hence, the video with the sparks/fire some miles back), and then "let go" quickly. It wasn't on a tank car, either, but on a covered hopper.

I haven't read anywhere as to WHERE the failure occurred in the train -- toward the head end, middle, toward the rear, etc.

I read earlier that the train had something like 141 loads and a few empties, getting close to 150 cars. With car lengths in a general freight train running 50-70 feet long, that's a mile-and-a-half +/-.

On the engine, you just can't see back that far. In most places you're lucky if you can see 30-40 cars back, if that far.

But these days, with their new-fangled concept of "precision scheduled railroading", they double-up two trains into one monster train, and run that (often with an engine "in the middle" and perhaps another on the rear, all controlled from the head unit). Fewer crews, less fuel consumed, more $$$ per train.

This can make handling more difficult, as well.

It will be interesting to see how the FRA addresses this. In the case of an accident with serious side effects (such as this one with the release of toxic chemicals, the full extent of which isn't yet known) there's going to be pressure to "do something". Usually this means some new kind of operating rule or federal regulation.

But not sure what they can do here. If the engineer wasn't doing anything he shouldn't have been doing (over the speed limit, etc), and the trackside defect detector didn't sound off until immediately before the train derailed (sounds like that's what happened), they probably can't pin this on the crew (which is the easy way out insofar as the company and feds are concerned).

They might go after the car department for not inspecting the train properly, but if the defect had not yet developed at the time the train left its initial starting point or passed the last point where there was "human inspection", can't go after them, either.

I'm thinking the feds may order that cars containing particularly hazardous materials travel in shorter, dedicated "haz/mat" trains, with lower speeds and frequent "human" inspections.

[Hey, did I ever tell ya about the time I had a special tank train of 40 cars of sulfuric acid, with NO BRAKES? No "properly working brakes", anyway. Got it from Pt. Jervis (NY/NJ/PA border) to Oak Island (outside Newark) without "using the air", at all!]
I figured it was that sort of failure (can't tell you how many prairie fires have been started by "hot boxes" along the rail lines here, and that has gotten better, but it only takes one under the right conditions).

By the tangle of cars shown in the (likely drone) aerial view, I figured there had to be a bunch of momentum behind the car(s) that failed.

Mile-long trains are nothing new to these parts, from freight moving through to grain trains to coal unit trains in Wyoming, to crude oil shipments going where pipelines don't.
 
Ideally, if there was a problem under one of the cars, they'd be able to alert a fire department up the line a short ways and cool it down/put it out at a crossing out of town or a siding, but that may not have been an option.

There was supposed to be a detector back where the security video caught the problem, and it should have notified someone there was a problem. If it was functioning, and if the notification got through in time. I don't pretend to know how that works.

With all the 'smart' gadgets out there, maybe there would be some way to have every bearing unit in the trucks set up to notify the engine if they overheated, but that could be a maintenance nightmare causing crazy scheduling problems, especially if the detectors were subject to vandalism.

Burning the vinyl chloride in the event of a leak might have been the very best option, considering it is a known carcinogen that targets the liver.
Combustion byproducts may be far less hazardous in the long run.
From the MSDS: https://www.airgas.com/msds/001067.pdf
Quote
Extremely flammable gas.
May form explosive mixtures with air.
Contains gas under pressure; may explode if heated.
May cause frostbite
May displace oxygen and cause rapid suffocation.
May cause cancer.
May cause damage to organs through prolonged or repeated exposure. (liver)

Boiling point : -13.4°C (7.9°F)

Lower and upper explosive (flammable) limits:
 Lower: 3.8%
Upper: 29.3%

Exposure limits:
ACGIH TLV (United States, 3/2017).
TWA: 1 ppm 8 hours.
OSHA PEL (United States, 6/2016).
STEL: 5 ppm 15 minutes.
TWA: 1 ppm 8 hours.
OSHA PEL 1989 (United States, 3/1989).
STEL: 5 ppm 15 minutes.
TWA: 1 ppm 8 hours.

Now, for the good news (well, sorta).

From: https://www.waterfilteradvisor.com/contaminants/vinyl-chloride/

Vinyl chloride has low solubility in water.
Quote
According to the EPA, the recommended method of removing vinyl chloride from the water source is with packed tower aeration. Other ways to remove the chemical contaminant from the water is through the use of Reverse Osmosis, granular activated carbon (GAC), and other distillation methods. With most water filter systems packed with granular activated carbon, you can remove vinyl chloride to below the EPA’s regulated water standards.

« Last Edit: February 13, 2023, 07:28:55 pm by Smokin Joe »
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Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

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This story up next on Jesse Watter's show...

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 February 13, 2023 6:36pm EST
Ohio train derailment: Rep. Omar calls out Buttigieg for 'direct action,' Vance says 'many questions remain'
Ohio Sen. JD Vance said he's heard 'alarming anecdotes about contaminated waterways and effects on wildlife'

By Paul Best | Fox News


Sen. JD Vance, R-Ohio, said Monday that he's "horrified" by the Norfolk Southern train derailment earlier this month in East Palestine, warning that many questions remain unanswered after a controlled release of toxic chemicals shrouded the town in thick plumes of black smoke.

About 50 cars, including several carrying vinyl chloride, derailed on the evening of Feb. 3 due to a broken axle.

Three days after the derailment, authorities decided to burn off the toxic gases to avoid an explosion, sending hydrogen chloride and phosgene, a toxic chemical used as a weapon in World War I, into the air.





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https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ohio-train-derailment-rep-omar-calls-direct-action-buttigieg-vance-many-questions-remain
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The EPA should be all over this.  Unfortunately, they suck when it comes to cleaning up the environment.  They are much more adept at destroying businesses than they are at protecting the environment.  They will eventually declare this a superfund site and use it as leverage for the next 20 years to pry more funding out of Congress.  Just in the last two years, they have gotten an additional $5 billion for their Superfund, yet haven't cleaned up a single one of them.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2023, 10:56:14 pm by Hoodat »
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Pete Buttigieg And Chernobyl in Ohio
Sam Faddis
15 hr ago

I guess if you are going to be the worst President in American history you want a Transportation Secretary that is equally bad.  Pete Buttigieg, the man who ran for President on a solid record of mediocrity and being gay, certainly fits that bill. Ask the people of East Palestine, Ohio.  ...

Buttigieg’s Department of Transportation decided to make it much worse. Authorities made the decision to burn the vinyl chloride to prevent derailed tanker cars from exploding.  When vinyl chloride burns it turns into hydrogen chloride. When hydrogen chloride enters the atmosphere it bonds with water vapor and forms hydrochloric acid. That means hundreds of thousands of pounds of acid have now been released into the environment.  ...

Where is Buttigieg, our Secretary of Transportation? Busy with other matters. In public announcements and comments recently, he has talked about the dangers posed by an excess of white people working in construction. He has also had time to talk about a book called “Song of Achilles” a gay rewrite of the Iliad. He hasn’t said a word about East Palestine, Ohio.

The area surrounding the burn is already feeling the impact of the release of the immense amount of acid in question. Fish are dying. Farm animals are dying. Contamination of the Ohio River has now been reported as far as West Virginia. The Ohio River feeds into the Mississippi.  ...
https://andmagazine.substack.com/p/pete-buttigieg-and-chernobyl-in-ohio?fbclid=IwAR0TKfD3QVdLPObmPKQowefhJVJNV7iC_NXqDF9rS-qK2vuemxkmcU3eC4Q
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Now, for the good news (well, sorta).

From: https://www.waterfilteradvisor.com/contaminants/vinyl-chloride/

Vinyl chloride has low solubility in water.
Quote
According to the EPA, the recommended method of removing vinyl chloride from the water source is with packed tower aeration. Other ways to remove the chemical contaminant from the water is through the use of Reverse Osmosis, granular activated carbon (GAC), and other distillation methods. With most water filter systems packed with granular activated carbon, you can remove vinyl chloride to below the EPA’s regulated water standards.

So out of curiosity since our water comes from the Ohio River, do we know if existing municipal water processing systems are already set up to handle this type of contamination?
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Health Concerns Grow as More Toxic Chemicals Revealed on Derailed Ohio Train than First Made Public

Simon Kent 14 Feb 2023

The fiery derailment of a train carrying toxic chemicals along the Ohio-Pennsylvania line last week spewed more harmful pollutants into the air, surface soils and water table than originally reported, fresh data made available Monday suggests.

About 50 cars on a Norfolk Southern Railroad train derailed on Feb. 3 while traveling from Illinois to Pennsylvania through the small town of East Palestine, Ohio.

No one was injured in the derailment investigators said was caused by a broken axle, as Breitbart News reported.

More than 2,000 residents were evacuated due to health concerns over the chemical leak but have since been allowed to return.

State health officials were initially concerned about the presence of vinyl chloride, a highly volatile colorless gas produced for commercial uses which spilled in the accident.

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https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2023/02/14/health-concerns-grow-as-more-toxic-chemicals-revealed-on-derailed-ohio-train-than-first-made-public/
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Buttigieg Breaks Silence 10 Days After Ohio Train Derailment


Alexa Schwerha
Contributor
February 14, 2023 8:59 AM ET


U.S. Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg broke his silence Monday night about a train derailment in eastern Ohio which occurred earlier this month.

A Norfolk Southern freight train derailed and caused a large fire on Feb. 3 in East Palestine, Ohio, and officials performed a “controlled vent and burn” to avoid a “catastrophic” explosion which released hazardous fumes into both the air and water. Buttigieg shared details of the derailment ten days after the original incident after being criticized online for failing to mention the derailment during a Monday National Association of Counties Conference panel.

“I continue to be concerned about the impacts of the Feb 3 train derailment near East Palestine, OH, and the effects on families in the ten days since their lives were upended through no fault of their own,” Buttigieg tweeted. “It’s important that families have access to useful & accurate information.”

more
https://dailycaller.com/2023/02/14/buttigieg-breaks-silence-ohio-train-derailment/
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Buttigieg Breaks Silence 10 Days After Ohio Train Derailment


Alexa Schwerha
Contributor
February 14, 2023 8:59 AM ET


U.S. Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg broke his silence Monday night about a train derailment in eastern Ohio which occurred earlier this month.

A Norfolk Southern freight train derailed and caused a large fire on Feb. 3 in East Palestine, Ohio, and officials performed a “controlled vent and burn” to avoid a “catastrophic” explosion which released hazardous fumes into both the air and water. Buttigieg shared details of the derailment ten days after the original incident after being criticized online for failing to mention the derailment during a Monday National Association of Counties Conference panel.

“I continue to be concerned about the impacts of the Feb 3 train derailment near East Palestine, OH, and the effects on families in the ten days since their lives were upended through no fault of their own,” Buttigieg tweeted. “It’s important that families have access to useful & accurate information.”

more
https://dailycaller.com/2023/02/14/buttigieg-breaks-silence-ohio-train-derailment/


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I just went to Kroger and got some bottled water. No apparent panic buying yet, but that's probably because the local snooze media do not seem to have talked to the area water offices that draw from the Ohio River and asked exactly what the situation is (although I was accosted by a news babe outside the grocery store, who wanted my thoughts on camera about the opening of our new bridge. I declined to comment).
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I just went to Kroger and got some bottled water. No apparent panic buying yet, but that's probably because the local snooze media do not seem to have talked to the area water offices that draw from the Ohio River and asked exactly what the situation is (although I was accosted by a news babe outside the grocery store, who wanted my thoughts on camera about the opening of our new bridge. I declined to comment).

Probably a prudent thing to do.

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Pete Buttigieg And Chernobyl in Ohio
Sam Faddis
15 hr ago

I guess if you are going to be the worst President in American history you want a Transportation Secretary that is equally bad.  Pete Buttigieg, the man who ran for President on a solid record of mediocrity and being gay, certainly fits that bill. Ask the people of East Palestine, Ohio.  ...

Buttigieg’s Department of Transportation decided to make it much worse. Authorities made the decision to burn the vinyl chloride to prevent derailed tanker cars from exploding.  When vinyl chloride burns it turns into hydrogen chloride. When hydrogen chloride enters the atmosphere it bonds with water vapor and forms hydrochloric acid. That means hundreds of thousands of pounds of acid have now been released into the environment.  ...

Where is Buttigieg, our Secretary of Transportation? Busy with other matters. In public announcements and comments recently, he has talked about the dangers posed by an excess of white people working in construction. He has also had time to talk about a book called “Song of Achilles” a gay rewrite of the Iliad. He hasn’t said a word about East Palestine, Ohio.

The area surrounding the burn is already feeling the impact of the release of the immense amount of acid in question. Fish are dying. Farm animals are dying. Contamination of the Ohio River has now been reported as far as West Virginia. The Ohio River feeds into the Mississippi.  ...
https://andmagazine.substack.com/p/pete-buttigieg-and-chernobyl-in-ohio?fbclid=IwAR0TKfD3QVdLPObmPKQowefhJVJNV7iC_NXqDF9rS-qK2vuemxkmcU3eC4Q

Wrong.

Try a 100 PPM exposure to HCl for a week. You might get a little itchy, maybe some slight congestion, and possible a little eye irritation.  Try 100 PPM in your shower water, and you likely won't notice, unless you have extremely sensitive skin. Stomach acid (also HCl) is a lot stronger.

But do that with vinyl chloride, and there is a solid chance you will develop liver cancer. The "safe" exposure limit for those who work around it is one part per million for 8 hours.

Considering allowing it to spill and possibly get into the soil/water table, even in small concentrations
I have posted the MSDS info for vinyl chloride. If it was going to spill, it would be in the groundwater for a long time, provided it did not just evaporate (boiling point is 7.6 degrees Fahrenheit). Burning it was likely considered the safer option if it (a pressurized, liquefied gas at warmer temperatures then 8 above) could not be safely transferred to other containers/vehicles to be transported away, something complicated by its volatility and wide explosive concentration range when mixed with air.

Considering the potential for disaster involving first responders and others (human lives), sometimes it is less hazardous in the long run to burn or allow the cargo to burn than put it out and try to recover it.

When I first got in the oilfield, the Penrod toolpusher had a flare gun, and told me in case he was unable to do so, that if we ever had a blowout in Hydrogen Sulfide Gas (H2S) to burn the rig, because 1000 PPM in air will kill you before you can exhale, and they didn't want to risk a cloud of that blowing around. I askedabout the guys on the rig, and he basically said if they aren't off there by the time it got that bad, they would already be dead.

Now, when H2S burns, it produces another toxic, acid gas: Sulfur Dioxide, which combines with moisture in the air to make sulfurous acid (H2SO3). That's nasty enough, but it won't kill you in mid stride like H2S.

Likely the choice to burn the cargo was similar.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Not to defend Butthead, who likely had nothing to do with the decisions made on the ground. but...

Try a 100 PPM exposure to HCl for a week. You might get a little itchy, maybe some slight congestion, and possible a little eye irritation.  Try 100 PPM in your shower water, and you likely won't notice, unless you have extremely sensitive skin. Stomach acid (also HCl) is a lot stronger.

But do that with vinyl chloride, and there is a solid chance you will develop liver cancer. The "safe" exposure limit for those who work around it is one part per million for 8 hours.

Considering allowing it to spill and possibly get into the soil/water table, even in small concentrations
I have posted the MSDS info for vinyl chloride. If it was going to spill, it would be in the groundwater for a long time, provided it did not just evaporate (boiling point is 7.6 degrees Fahrenheit). Burning it was likely considered the safer option if it (a pressurized, liquefied gas at warmer temperatures then 8 above) could not be safely transferred to other containers/vehicles to be transported away, something complicated by its volatility and wide explosive concentration range when mixed with air.

Considering the potential for disaster involving first responders and others (human lives), sometimes it is less hazardous in the long run to burn or allow the cargo to burn than put it out and try to recover it.

When I first got in the oilfield, the Penrod toolpusher had a flare gun, and told me in case he was unable to do so, that if we ever had a blowout in Hydrogen Sulfide Gas (H2S) to burn the rig, because 1000 PPM in air will kill you before you can exhale, and they didn't want to risk a cloud of that blowing around. I askedabout the guys on the rig, and he basically said if they aren't off there by the time it got that bad, they would already be dead.

Now, when H2S burns, it produces another toxic, acid gas: Sulfur Dioxide, which combines with moisture in the air to make sulfurous acid (H2SO3). That's nasty enough, but it won't kill you in mid stride like H2S.

Likely the choice to burn the cargo was similar.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

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ICYMI....

"Tucker exposes SHOCKING train wreck in Ohio as MASSIVE toxic spill goes up in FLAMES, giant mushroom cloud seen from space " (Video)


https://mobile.twitter.com/bennyjohnson/status/1625553513576075267

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Offline Fishrrman

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As much as I disdain Buttplug, there's not really much for him to say about things. He has no real knowledge of rail operations (of that I'm certain), and there's nothing useful he COULD say.

Looks like an axle bearing went bad, and by the time a wayside "talking defect detector" caught the problem (and began transmitting that there was a defect), it was too late. Once that wheel and axle break, it's all over but the cleanup.

Back in the days when I worked freight, defect detectors (back then, they were mostly "hot box" detectors, but these days they do even more) were a good distance apart -- 30, 40 miles or more.

These days, they often have them closer together, I would reckon every 20-25 miles or so. But things can still go wrong "in between".

NTSB will [eventually] come out with a report, detailing what [they believe] went wrong. They may even make some recommendations.

In the meantime, it would be up to the FRA (Federal Railroad Administration) to issue an "emergency order" if there was anything they thought ought to be implemented right away that might lessen the occurrence of such incidents in the future.

But actually, there's probably not much anyone can do. A train that long has A LOT of axles and axle bearings. Sometimes one will go bad without warning. Then bad things just happen...

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https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/15/us/newsnation-reporter-charges-dropped/index.html

Quote
The criminal charges filed against the NewsNation reporter who was arrested while reporting at a news conference in East Palestine have been dropped, Ohio Attorney General Dave Yost announced Wednesday.

Evan Lambert-McMichael was arrested after reporting live during a news conference last week held by Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine and other officials who were updating the train derailment in East Palestine, CNN previously reported.

Body camera footage shows officials approaching Lambert-McMichael and asking him to stop his reporting as it was too loud during the press conference. The footage also shows an argument break out and Ohio National Guard’s adjutant general, Maj. Gen. John Harris, approaching and pushing Lambert-McMichael.

Lambert-McMichael was charged with resisting arrest, a second-degree misdemeanor, and criminal trespass, a fourth-degree misdemeanor, according to Yost.

“While journalists could conceivably be subject to criminal charges for trespassing in some situations, this incident is not one of them,” Yost wrote in a statement. “The reporter was lawfully present at a press conference called by the Governor of the state. His conduct was consistent with the purpose of the event and his role as a reporter.”

(snip)

DeWine said Wednesday on “CNN This Morning” he has “never had a problem” during any of the news conferences he’s held during his tenure as governor.

“This reporter who was reporting live from the back of the room never should have been asked to stop, never should have been told to be quiet,” the Republican governor told CNN’s Don Lemon and Kaitlan Collins. “That was a big, big mistake. And you know, the person who did that, I’ve explained to them and I’m sure that he’ll never, never do that again.”

Harris got taken to the woodshed by DeWine.
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The governor was not aware of this kerfluffle.

 But the reporter should have understood that you don't do a live shot while the governor is holding a press conference a few feet away. He could have waited a while. I don't blame DeWine (no, I'm not his biggest fan) nor L.E., and I won't chalk this up to the big bad gubmint trying to stomp on the First Amendment. That simply is not what happened.
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'We made the decision': Gov DeWine admits he and Gov Josh Shapiro signed off on controlled burn in East Palestine
The Post Millennial, Feb 17, 2023

In a February 14 press conference, Ohio Governor Mike DeWine revealed that both he and Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro signed off on the decision to conduct a "controlled release" of chemicals from the derailed Norfolk Southern train in East Palestine, Ohio.

"It was clear at that point that we were faced with two bad options," DeWine said of the hours and days immediately following the incident. DeWine later stated that "we then made the decision to go ahead with the second option which was to control release."

DeWine said that shortly after the derailment, when it became clear that an explosion could occur, he spoke with railroad representatives, bringing Shapiro into the conversation of the next steps and weighing the risks of leaving the train to explode, or setting the chemicals on fire.

However, the controlled release of the toxic chemicals also has the potential to be deadly following new modeling information conducted this morning and discussed at length between myself, Governor DeWine, and our respective teams," Shapiro added at the time, adding that he "strongly encouraged" an evacuation of the residents.

According to ABC News, following the setting of the fire, Shapiro said that the vent and burn operation went "as planned," and that "no concerning" air and water quality readings have been detected.

More:
https://thepostmillennial.com/we-made-the-decision-gov-dewine-admits-he-and-gov-josh-shapiro-signed-off-on-controlled-burn-in-east-palestine?utm_campaign=64483

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They've said the train cars would have exploded on their own, shooting shrapnel as far as a mile way, had they not intervened. I don't know whether that is true, but DeWine has stated that repeatedly.
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Why didn't they declare a disaster to get more Federal assistance to deal with this?

This is reminiscent of the Louisianna governor not requesting Federal assistance immediately after Katrina.
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Tucker calls for Gov DeWine and Josh Shapiro to resign after signing off on controlled burn
The Post Millennial, Feb 17, 2023

During Wednesday night’s episode of Tucker Carlson Tonight, the show’s namesake called for Governor Mike DeWine of Ohio and Governor Josh Shapiro of Pennsylvania to resign, saying that the two signed off on the burning of chemicals from a Norfolk Southern train that derailed earlier this month in East Palestine, Ohio.

Speaking on the events leading up to and following the burning, Carlson said, "In the subsequent days, a lot of people have wondered out loud, was it really a wise decision to light thousands of gallons of vinyl chloride on fire releasing a World War One-era bioweapon into the air over a populated area. Was that a good call?"

"Was that a good call? And was it really safe two days later for people to go back to their homes, and if it was safe, how do we know that? Is anyone in charge actually monitoring with any accuracy the level of deadly chemicals in the air ground and water in and around East Palestine? Well, no, apparently nobody is," Carlson added.

Carlson called it a "failure at all levels."

"The first duty of government is to protect its citizens. So it's bad," Carlson said, adding that it is "very bad news" for politicians like Shapiro and DeWine, "who may have helped make this disaster much worse."

Carlson said that DeWine and Shapiro are "desperately trying to revise their previous statements about the so-called controlled burn," now stating that the "toxic mushroom cloud over East Palestine, the one they signed off on and endorsed on television, was actually a bad thing. It wasn’t perfect."

More:
https://thepostmillennial.com/breaking-tucker-calls-for-gov-dewine-and-josh-shapiro-to-resign-after-signing-off-on-controlled-burn?utm_campaign=64483

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Offline Polly Ticks

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Not sure about other downstream areas, but the runs on bottled water are in full swing now in Louisville.
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Not sure about other downstream areas, but the runs on bottled water are in full swing now in Louisville.
I picked up another case today. Can't tell whether there's any panic buying. Local officials assure us our water isn't taken from the Ohio River.  :shrug:
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I picked up another case today. Can't tell whether there's any panic buying. Local officials assure us our water isn't taken from the Ohio River.  :shrug:

Ours is from the Ohio River.  Our local Kroger has nothing but empty shelves, and WalMart is not far behind. My kid is trying to fill an online order for 36 cases (he works in the online shopper area) as we speak.
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I thought ours was from the river, but have been advised it's from underground sources, instead. A town a few miles north of us, however, reportedly does take its water from the Ohio.

“All Democrats are not horse thieves, but all horse thieves are Democrats.”—Horace Greeley, 1872