Is America Falling Like Rome?

[mystery-ak]

December 21, 2022
Is America Falling Like Rome?
By S.R. Piccoli

When news of the Battle of Saratoga reached Britain, a young Scottish barrister told economist Adam Smith: “If we go on at this rate, the nation must be ruined.” Adam Smith responded, “Be assured young friend, that there is a great deal of ruin in a nation.” By that, he meant that nations can absorb a lot more blows than the pessimists tend to think. A few days ago, American Greatness had a very concerned article by Victor Davis Hanson on the future of America.  After quoting Adam Smith’s answer at the beginning of the article, and after reviewing the ills that beset America, Hanson concluded his reflection with the following statement: “We have seen lots of cultural revolutions in this country, but never one that was so singularly focused on razing the foundations of America -- until now. Yes, there is a lot of ruin in great nations. But even America is by now running low on it.”

In all fairness it has to be said that such a terrible sentence perfectly reflects the reality of the country as it has become today. We are $31 trillion in collective debt, says Hanson, the military is politicized and short of recruits, and the American people are witnessing the breakdown of basic norms essential for civilized life: “Old Cairo seems safer than an after-hours subway ride or stroll at dusk in many major American cities. Medieval London’s roadways were likely cleaner than Market Street in San Francisco.” Not to mention the fact that “speech was freer in 1920s America than it is now.” Nor can the “abject, deliberate humiliation” suffered in Kabul be forgotten, when the worst U.S. administration ever decided to flee  and abandon to the terrorist Taliban a huge, remodeled air base, tens of billions of dollars in military hardware, a $1 billion embassy, and thousands of friends. In addition, FBI is corrupt and discredited, collaborating with Silicon Valley’s Big Tech companies to suppress free speech and warp elections:

    “In 2016, the bureau with the Democratic National Committee sought to destroy the integrity of an election by fabricating a Russian collusion hoax. Its continuance and coverup ultimately required FBI agents and lawyers to alter legal documents, to lie under oath, to destroy subpoenaed phone data, and to outsource illegal suppression of First Amendment rights to Silicon Valley contractors. The nation now fears there isn’t anything the FBI might not do.”

more
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2022/12/is_america_falling_like_rome.html

[Bigun]

Already has!

[LMAO]

Time will tell. But we are definitely on a path to collapse. Whether some way, disaster is averted or we just follow the path all the way to the Roman Empire, time will tell

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Eh, been hearing this for a while now. We're still in the Republican phase, even if some people say we're not. Talk to me after we move into the Emperor phase.

[Free Vulcan]

I wish people would get over the western Roman Empire thing. First off, it's not historically accurate.

Second, what's coming will be much different than what happened then, and possibly much worse.

[DefiantMassRINO]

All empires start to collapse when they stop expanding.

Imperial economies are based upon conquest, not efficiencies and productivity.

For the the U.S. to be ascending it needs to be constantly improving efficiences and increasing productivity to develop and maintain competitive economic advantages.

[Cyber Liberty]

No, it's collapsing like the United States.

[rustynail]

Like a row of Dominos.

[Free Vulcan]

No, it's collapsing like the United States.

Thank you.

While there may be a certain amount of parallels, we're basically treading new ground here with a far more uncertain outcome.

[Hoodat]

The Visigoths have already taken Portland.

[Wingnut]

Rome had good roads.

[berdie]

Rome had good roads.

A valid point.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Rome had good roads.

Everyone says that but I’d like to see what their tires car and suspension would look like after continuously on Roman stone roads for years on end.

[Fishrrman]

Some replies from above:

Bigun:
"Already has"

LMAO:
"we are definitely on a path to collapse"

Vulcan:
"what's coming will be much different than what happened then, and possibly much worse"

Cyber:
"it's collapsing like the United States"

Rusty:
"Like a row of Dominos"

Now, Fishrrman:
If the existing 50-state nation is indeed headed for "the fall" -- as you above seem to agree that it is -- is it not time to begin thinking what might come "after"?

If not "the old [50-state] nation", perhaps something else, at least comprising the remaining "red" states?

Hence, a New Continental Congress.
To assess the current situation, consider what "an alternative nation" might be...
... and to begin planning on how to get "from here... to there"...

[The_Reader_David]

I wish people would get over the western Roman Empire thing. First off, it's not historically accurate.

Second, what's coming will be much different than what happened then, and possibly much worse.

Yes, I've always thought the comparison facile and based on historical ignorance.  Comparisons with the late Roman Republic are more likely to give worthwhile insights, if one really wants Roman analogies.

[Free Vulcan]

Yes, I've always thought the comparison facile and based on historical ignorance.  Comparisons with the late Roman Republic are more likely to give worthwhile insights, if one really wants Roman analogies.

People forget that the Eastern Roman Empire lasted another 1,000 years, and yes people still considered it Rome. And when the Western did fall, it was hardly dramatic. The Germanics were pretty civilized by then and life went on mostly normal.

If I were to make a comparison, it would be Britain after the Romans left. If America were to fall, it'd probably look more like that IMO, but who knows. Agree that some comparisons could be made, but I think our fate will be different.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

People forget that the Eastern Roman Empire lasted another 1,000 years, and yes people still considered it Rome. And when the Western did fall, it was hardly dramatic. The Germanics were pretty civilized by then and life went on mostly normal.

If I were to make a comparison, it would be Britain after the Romans left. If America were to fall, it'd probably look more like that IMO, but who knows. Agree that some comparisons could be made, but I think our fate will be different.

You are correct. Not only that but Charlemagne attempted to resurrect the Western Roman Empire and that lasted until the 19th century in some form... wasn't it called the "Holy Roman Empire"? *googles*

[Free Vulcan]

You are correct. Not only that but Charlemagne attempted to resurrect the Western Roman Empire and that lasted until the 19th century in some form... wasn't it called the "Holy Roman Empire"? *googles*

It was. Truly ironic that the Germanics tried so hard to get the upper hand over Western Rome, then spent another 500+ years trying to get it back.

[sneakypete]

@mystery-ak

There DOES seem to be an awful lot of similarities.

[sneakypete]

All empires start to collapse when they stop expanding.

@DefiantMassRINO

It DOES seem to work that way,doesn't it?

Imperial economies are based upon conquest, not efficiencies and productivity.

Well,maybe,but the "conquest" of today would most likely be economic conquest,not a military one. Nobody wins a nuclear war. Not even the survivors.

I don't even like thinking this,never mind saying it,but a military conquest may even be preferable because at least there would be a force around to enforce order instead of chaos and there would be some planning behind it instead of nothing but chaos.

 

[sneakypete]

No, it's collapsing like the United States.

@Cyber Liberty

The US isn't collapsing. It is being purposely destroyed.

[Cyber Liberty]

@Cyber Liberty

The US isn't collapsing. It is being purposely destroyed.

Same Thing.

[Right_in_Virginia]

America has fallen.  The question is:  Can she get up?

[The_Reader_David]

People forget that the Eastern Roman Empire lasted another 1,000 years, and yes people still considered it Rome. And when the Western did fall, it was hardly dramatic. The Germanics were pretty civilized by then and life went on mostly normal.

If I were to make a comparison, it would be Britain after the Romans left. If America were to fall, it'd probably look more like that IMO, but who knows. Agree that some comparisons could be made, but I think our fate will be different.

Quite.  The "Fall of Rome" in 476 was a non-event (the significance of which Gibbon ginned up to try to dispossess the Eastern Empire of its Romanity) and consisted of the last Western Augustus being retired to a villa near Naples because the Emperor in Constantinople decided a Western co-Emperor was redundant as the King of the Ostrogoths, in his other office as Patrician of the Romans, could perfectly well look after Imperial affairs in the old homeland.  Even the Vandals who sacked Rome in 410 were Christians (albeit Arian heretics), which is why there was a negotiation between their leaders and the Pope of Rome before the sack in which the sanctity of churches and the right of the Church to give sanctuary was agreed to before the traditional three day sack began. 

Interestingly the Vandals were so devoted to Arianism that when Justinian briefly reasserted direct Imperial control over the West, they preferred their own military destruction at the hands of Belisarius's army to accepting the Orthodox Faith and having their King confirmed as a Patrician of the Romans with a remit to rule North Africa on behalf of the Emperor.

And, yes the "barbarians" were quite civilized when Rome "fell".  Visigothic Spain was a fully literate society.

I personally subscribe to Pirenne's thesis that the Dark Ages in the West were a result of the rise of Islam, which cut off contact with the Empire (to which most of the barbarian kings were in theory still subject) and the supply of papyrus, leaving only extremely expensive velum as a writing medium, which in turn precipitated the collapse in literacy.

[Gefn]