Author Topic: 'Conservativism' is no longer enough; it's time for something new  (Read 13738 times)

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Online Smokin Joe

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Re: 'Conservativism' is no longer enough; it's time for something new
« Reply #100 on: December 15, 2022, 11:00:59 am »
Amen!! Allowing ILLEGALS into this country who refuse to assimilate to our values IS a huge problem.

This country was founded upon Christian values and principles. We have a prime example of those in Congress side stepping those values; Pelosi approving of abortion and our SCOTUS voting for same sex marriages, etc.  That IS the problem in a nutshell; our leaders sidestepping those values and principles for votes.  Most importantly, the SCOTUS is not there to re-write laws but to interpret law as it relates to the Constitution.
I think a lot of the problem with out "leaders" is their contact bubble. Washington DC, like most centers of power has power seekers of all ilk, and every perversion available on tap. Sure, some of that can be found most anyplace, but the concentration of it where the money flows and power surges is disproportionately high. Hence, their Overton Window is seeing a view something different from what we see out here in flyover country, and they just don't go back and visit with ordinary folks enough to see otherwise.

I think that is how many of the pubbies in Congress get suckered into believing that some of the dreck they vote for is somehow acceptable to their constituency.
Then, too, if we knew what they were up to in DC (not going to hear the worst of it on the MSM nooze) maybe we'd even have time to write or call and give them our thoughts on the matters, provided the staffers didn't cut that effort off at the knees, like pre-Elon Twitter.

Unfortunately, since the 17th Amendment, the Senate no longer is beholden to State Legislatures, but is just an echo of the House, pandering to what they perceive the voters' preferences to be, something easily astroturfed, if not just a victim of the squeaky wheel syndrome. So we get stuck with whatever they have been assured by insiders is what we want them to vote for, provided they even give a damn about that.

In the cold calculus of electoral politics, as long as their opponent next time is more distasteful than they are, no matter what they voted for, they know their seat is secure.

Want to change that? Write them, in longhand, hell, in cursive, e-mail them, call their office and be a polite pain in their nether regions, but make your opinion heard, and not just one or two of us, but all of us, to the point that they don't feel so secure next time primary season rolls around.

@roamer_1 is right, too, in that we have to have those in local and state government slots who can be groomed, even advanced as primary challengers who will be polished and credible enough to have a real shot at providing an alternative to unsuitable GOP incumbents.

Without that, (and honest elections) all else will fail.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

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Re: 'Conservativism' is no longer enough; it's time for something new
« Reply #101 on: December 15, 2022, 11:09:21 am »
Even Paul noted the distinction in that our fight is not with the material, but 'powers and principalities' beyond the material or existential realm that we see from our perspective because we are bound to it for awhile, even if they aren't.

All may be God's ultimately, but for a little while Satan owns this earthly domain. It is a system, with certain rules and parameters, which the Founders tried to design a govt against.
:yowsa:  All the more reason it would only be effective as long as the people, on balance were moral. Not necessarily religious, but moral nonetheless.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

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Re: 'Conservativism' is no longer enough; it's time for something new
« Reply #102 on: December 15, 2022, 11:10:55 am »
How's this worked out?
Just as well as for any others who have called out from the watchtowers who were ignored.

That isn't on the watchmen, but on those who failed to heed the warnings, for whatever reason they advanced.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

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Re: 'Conservativism' is no longer enough; it's time for something new
« Reply #103 on: December 15, 2022, 11:16:18 am »
@Right_in_Virginia

Not to mention the FACT that there are NO organizations in the US that spend more time and money aiding illegal aliens than organized religion.

They want their cut of that government welfare check each month,plus the political power a higher membership gives them.
What is their focus?

Hint: it isn't helping illegals, it's the paycheck/power...

They are off message, they are hypocrites of the worst sort.  Those same 'unfortunates' could have been helped right where they were, only those organizations would not have raked in taxpayer money for that.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

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Re: 'Conservativism' is no longer enough; it's time for something new
« Reply #104 on: December 15, 2022, 11:22:41 am »
@Right_in_Virginia  @roamer_1

Not only that,but the US Constitution states we have "Freedom OF Religion",which means we have the freedom to avoid it because it is NOT a requirement.

Remember,many of the Founding Fathers grew up in environments where going to church on Sundays and "playing the game" was a REQUIREMENT if you wanted to run a business or do anything else other than live in the woods like a hermit.

"Freedom OF Religion" also means "Freedom FROM (mandatory) Religion.
Well, that's why there shall be no establishment of religion (like a State religion).
But there is a funny thing about freedom and the exercise thereof.
No one said there would be no consequences, just that you were free to do as you choose.
Seems to me there was an awful lot of trade going on, whether with the Mohammedans, the heathen, or Christians of one sect or another, so there was ample opportunity to prosper,just don't expect the church ladies to fawn over you (well, not in the open, anyway).
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

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Re: 'Conservativism' is no longer enough; it's time for something new
« Reply #105 on: December 15, 2022, 11:33:39 am »
@libertybele

Nope!

It was founded on the principle of INDIVIDUAL FREEDOMS.


Quote
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

The fundamental concept that Rights are God-given is present right there.
God-given, unalienable. Beyond the purview or control of men, their legislatures, their edicts, those Rights exist.
Repeal the Second Amendment, and the RIGHT does not go away, any more than any creature in nature loses the right to defend itself or its progeny.

The Second Amendment doesn't GRANT anything, it merely tells the Government to leave the RIGHT alone. None of the Bill of Rights grant Rights, they merely state that those Rights already exist and that the Government lawfully shall not violate them.

Leave some deity, some higher power out and whaddya got?

I have little doubt that this is the principle reason the attack on religion has been so insidious these last 50 years, twisting the message, providing ample opportunity for hypocrites to prosper in their hypocrisy, and morphing into a sick version of itself, to undermine the concept of a just and merciful God.

Who, incidentally, is the source of those Rights enshrined in the Bill of Rights, not the damned Government. But if people are distracted from that and see the Government as the source of those Rights, or some piece of paper somewhere and a few phrases as imparting those unalienable Rights, they can be suckered into believing that tearing up that piece of paper will remove their Rights.
 
What is, is.

Beyond that, what you can be made to believe otherwise will control you more than any law or government.

How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online Smokin Joe

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Re: 'Conservativism' is no longer enough; it's time for something new
« Reply #106 on: December 15, 2022, 11:37:30 am »


And in that, a defined and universal moral sense that was imbued in this country, that was largely agreed upon which was not the doing of unbelief.

And it is that moral sense which has been utterly lost in so much of the nation - It still lives in rural locations, less so in suburbia, and is all but absent in liberal cities where that moral sense, that Christian ethic of right and wrong, is being redefined... And that is our catastrophe in the end... and will be our downfall. Watch and see.
It lives in rural environs because you know you are likely to see the people you deal with again and again. It only takes a few drops to poison that well.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline art.prout

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Re: 'Conservativism' is no longer enough; it's time for something new
« Reply #107 on: December 15, 2022, 11:56:24 am »

The fundamental concept that Rights are God-given is present right there.
God-given, unalienable. Beyond the purview or control of men, their legislatures, their edicts, those Rights exist.
Repeal the Second Amendment, and the RIGHT does not go away, any more than any creature in nature loses the right to defend itself or its progeny.

The Second Amendment doesn't GRANT anything, it merely tells the Government to leave the RIGHT alone. None of the Bill of Rights grant Rights, they merely state that those Rights already exist and that the Government lawfully shall not violate them.

Leave some deity, some higher power out and whaddya got?

I have little doubt that this is the principle reason the attack on religion has been so insidious these last 50 years, twisting the message, providing ample opportunity for hypocrites to prosper in their hypocrisy, and morphing into a sick version of itself, to undermine the concept of a just and merciful God.

Who, incidentally, is the source of those Rights enshrined in the Bill of Rights, not the damned Government. But if people are distracted from that and see the Government as the source of those Rights, or some piece of paper somewhere and a few phrases as imparting those unalienable Rights, they can be suckered into believing that tearing up that piece of paper will remove their Rights.
 
What is, is.

Beyond that, what you can be made to believe otherwise will control you more than any law or government.

I came back since many folks sent the private message on how to IGNORE and avoid the trolls.

Worth it to comment on this post:  Smoking Joe's commentary hits the mark. 

Offline EdinVA

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Re: 'Conservativism' is no longer enough; it's time for something new
« Reply #108 on: December 15, 2022, 12:08:40 pm »
@Right_in_Virginia  @roamer_1

Not only that,but the US Constitution states we have "Freedom OF Religion",which means we have the freedom to avoid it because it is NOT a requirement.

Remember,many of the Founding Fathers grew up in environments where going to church on Sundays and "playing the game" was a REQUIREMENT if you wanted to run a business or do anything else other than live in the woods like a hermit.

"Freedom OF Religion" also means "Freedom FROM (mandatory) Religion.
In my view, the issue is not religion, it is the Church that is behind most of the issues.  Religion, without the politics of the church, are good and basically focus on how to run your life and are fairly non-intrusive on others.  The moment the Church gets involved in the conversation then the pressure to "convert" those around you plants the seeds of conflict.
I don't remember which pope it was but I remember the pope(s) getting involved in our legislative efforts and actively pushing our legislators one direction or another and likely still are.

Offline sneakypete

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Re: 'Conservativism' is no longer enough; it's time for something new
« Reply #109 on: December 15, 2022, 02:07:45 pm »

The fundamental concept that Rights are God-given is present right there.

@Smokin Joe

Who else were they going to credit it to centuries ago,"The Boogey Man"?

There were "selling" the idea to a public that for the most part were superstitious and really did  because in God and Satan,so what did you expect?


AND....,if God is so all-powerful,why can't he destroy Satan? IF there is a God,he obviously doesn't give a squat about anyone but himself.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline sneakypete

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Re: 'Conservativism' is no longer enough; it's time for something new
« Reply #110 on: December 15, 2022, 02:14:27 pm »
In my view, the issue is not religion, it is the Church that is behind most of the issues.  Religion, without the politics of the church, are good and basically focus on how to run your life and are fairly non-intrusive on others.  The moment the Church gets involved in the conversation then the pressure to "convert" those around you plants the seeds of conflict.
I don't remember which pope it was but I remember the pope(s) getting involved in our legislative efforts and actively pushing our legislators one direction or another and likely still are.

@EdinVA

I agree,but "The Church" (whatever "flavor" you grew up in) is the "engine" that drives that car.

The Catholic Church is the most evil purely because it has been around the longest,not because individual followers are evil.

Well,I guess the Jewish religion has probably been around the longest of western religions,but I know very little about it other than it's origins.

Same with the Eastern Religions. Other than Communism,which is DEFINITELY a religion,I know nothing about about them. I have heard of "Buddhism",but that's about the extent of my knowledge.

I DO know that the basic concept behind ANY religion is to control the population and make the people orderly out of fear of eternal punishment for all of eternity after they die.

That is one HELL (pardon the pun) of a punishment!
« Last Edit: December 15, 2022, 02:19:08 pm by sneakypete »
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline LMAO

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Re: 'Conservativism' is no longer enough; it's time for something new
« Reply #111 on: December 15, 2022, 02:40:19 pm »

The fundamental concept that Rights are God-given is present right there.
God-given, unalienable. Beyond the purview or control of men, their legislatures, their edicts, those Rights exist.
Repeal the Second Amendment, and the RIGHT does not go away, any more than any creature in nature loses the right to defend itself or its progeny.

The Second Amendment doesn't GRANT anything, it merely tells the Government to leave the RIGHT alone. None of the Bill of Rights grant Rights, they merely state that those Rights already exist and that the Government lawfully shall not violate them.

Leave some deity, some higher power out and whaddya got?

I have little doubt that this is the principle reason the attack on religion has been so insidious these last 50 years, twisting the message, providing ample opportunity for hypocrites to prosper in their hypocrisy, and morphing into a sick version of itself, to undermine the concept of a just and merciful God.

Who, incidentally, is the source of those Rights enshrined in the Bill of Rights, not the damned Government. But if people are distracted from that and see the Government as the source of those Rights, or some piece of paper somewhere and a few phrases as imparting those unalienable Rights, they can be suckered into believing that tearing up that piece of paper will remove their Rights.
 
What is, is.

Beyond that, what you can be made to believe otherwise will control you more than any law or government.

Excellent post
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Offline Bigun

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Re: 'Conservativism' is no longer enough; it's time for something new
« Reply #112 on: December 15, 2022, 02:48:25 pm »
I came back since many folks sent the private message on how to IGNORE and avoid the trolls.

Worth it to comment on this post:  Smoking Joe's commentary hits the mark.

 :yowsa: It does, and I, for one, am very glad you decided to stick around @art.prout
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Online Smokin Joe

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Re: 'Conservativism' is no longer enough; it's time for something new
« Reply #113 on: December 15, 2022, 05:30:46 pm »
AND....,if God is so all-powerful,why can't he destroy Satan? IF there is a God,he obviously doesn't give a squat about anyone but himself.

Patience, laddie, all things in His time.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline jmyrlefuller

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Re: 'Conservativism' is no longer enough; it's time for something new
« Reply #114 on: December 15, 2022, 07:15:50 pm »


AND....,if God is so all-powerful,why can't he destroy Satan? IF there is a God,he obviously doesn't give a squat about anyone but himself.
That's right. And that's the universe we live in, whether you like it or not. There's no escaping it, so don't even bother.
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Offline Free Vulcan

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Re: 'Conservativism' is no longer enough; it's time for something new
« Reply #115 on: December 15, 2022, 07:19:08 pm »
if God is so all-powerful,why can't he destroy Satan? IF there is a God,he obviously doesn't give a squat about anyone but himself.

That is predicted to happen. And while people may think things are bad now, it's also predicted that He will withdraw His hand...and then get really bad. Like demons coming out of the pit and feasting on flesh, among other pleasantries.
The Republic is lost.

Offline libertybele

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Re: 'Conservativism' is no longer enough; it's time for something new
« Reply #116 on: December 15, 2022, 07:26:09 pm »
I came back since many folks sent the private message on how to IGNORE and avoid the trolls.

Worth it to comment on this post:  Smoking Joe's commentary hits the mark.

Glad to see you posting again @art.prout   happy77
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline libertybele

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Re: 'Conservativism' is no longer enough; it's time for something new
« Reply #117 on: December 15, 2022, 07:26:49 pm »
Patience, laddie, all things in His time.

Amen!!
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline libertybele

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Re: 'Conservativism' is no longer enough; it's time for something new
« Reply #118 on: December 15, 2022, 07:29:29 pm »
That's right. And that's the universe we live in, whether you like it or not. There's no escaping it, so don't even bother.

John 3:16-18


16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life.

17 “Indeed, God did not send the Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

18 Those who believe in him are not condemned; but those who do not believe are condemned already, because they have not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline Hoodat

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Re: 'Conservativism' is no longer enough; it's time for something new
« Reply #119 on: December 15, 2022, 09:46:27 pm »
AND....,if God is so all-powerful,why can't he destroy Satan?

Maybe you should ask Him.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline Hoodat

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Re: 'Conservativism' is no longer enough; it's time for something new
« Reply #120 on: December 15, 2022, 09:50:43 pm »
Patience, laddie, all things in His time.

Ever ask yourself how satan got in the Garden in the first place?
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline Bigun

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Re: 'Conservativism' is no longer enough; it's time for something new
« Reply #121 on: December 15, 2022, 11:06:59 pm »
Quote
7 Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8 But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. 9 The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

Revelation 12:7–10 (NIV)
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline corbe

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Re: 'Conservativism' is no longer enough; it's time for something new
« Reply #122 on: December 16, 2022, 12:16:20 am »
   I would never deny the positive significance that Christianity has had on the very fabric of this Nation and sustaining it to this moment in time.  The fact that our Constitution leaves plenty of room for all types of Believers or Non-Believers, I am Thankful of.
No government in the 12,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.

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Re: 'Conservativism' is no longer enough; it's time for something new
« Reply #123 on: December 16, 2022, 12:28:25 am »
Ever ask yourself how satan got in the Garden in the first place?
:yowsa:
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline sneakypete

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Re: 'Conservativism' is no longer enough; it's time for something new
« Reply #124 on: December 17, 2022, 02:10:34 am »
Maybe you should ask Him.

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I don't have that kind of access to spendable cash.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!