Author Topic: LIZ PEEK: Herschel Walker just wrote Donald Trump's political obituary  (Read 12020 times)

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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: LIZ PEEK: Herschel Walker just wrote Donald Trump's political obituary
« Reply #125 on: December 09, 2022, 10:36:59 pm »
@sneakypete

I don't give a shit what you do. But words mean things. Conservatism has a definition. I will always rise to defend that definition. That is all I do.

Good for you!   You've found the problem with post-Reagan conservatives.    :hands:

Offline roamer_1

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Re: LIZ PEEK: Herschel Walker just wrote Donald Trump's political obituary
« Reply #126 on: December 09, 2022, 10:41:53 pm »
Good for you!   You've found the problem with post-Reagan conservatives.    :hands:

No problem. Conservatism is based upon unmovable principles that through the ages are known to be true, and are known to work...

Things that are true are always true. Go against it at your peril.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: LIZ PEEK: Herschel Walker just wrote Donald Trump's political obituary
« Reply #127 on: December 09, 2022, 10:54:21 pm »
No problem. Conservatism is based upon unmovable principles that through the ages are known to be true, and are known to work...

Things that are true are always true. Go against it at your peril.

:facepalm2:

Principles should be unmovable ---- not the people who hold them.  It behooves modern conservatives to stop conflating the two. 

Offline roamer_1

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Re: LIZ PEEK: Herschel Walker just wrote Donald Trump's political obituary
« Reply #128 on: December 09, 2022, 11:02:25 pm »
:facepalm2:

Principles should be unmovable ---- not the people who hold them.  It behooves modern conservatives to stop conflating the two.

Me? I am totally willing to compromise... After those principle things are preserved. Beyond that, there is plenty of room to barter.

Online corbe

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Re: LIZ PEEK: Herschel Walker just wrote Donald Trump's political obituary
« Reply #129 on: December 09, 2022, 11:10:43 pm »
No government in the 12,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: LIZ PEEK: Herschel Walker just wrote Donald Trump's political obituary
« Reply #130 on: December 10, 2022, 03:07:13 am »
@Right_in_Virginia

I agree. Somehow,conservatism morphed into fascism because it's main focus seemed to be on cutting taxes.

Yes,that IS a major part of a traditional conservative stance,but it is not the main focus. Or at least it shouldn't be.

In MY alleged mind,the main focus should be on individual freedoms versus the power of government.

And yes,cutting taxes is and SHOULD be a part of that,but not the major focus by any stretch of the imagination. If the government would focus more on spending public money on infastructure and other neccesssary issues instead of supporting the welfare state,there would soon be less need for higher taxes.

Support industries that hire employees,and soon there would be plenty of public money taken in and less need for issues like welfare.

I don't know about anyone else,but I do know that I was MUCH happier back when I had a job to go to every day than I am now,sitting around the house and looking for things to be pissed about in order to make me feel alive and that I have  something to do.
@sneakypete @Right_in_Virginia

Ahem. NO, "CONSERVATISM" didn't go anywhere, otherwise, it would not be conservatism.

A lot of people started applying the label to their own quasi-totalitarian 'lesser evil' corrupted version of what the Leftist totalitarians were not directly espousing, and even spoke the right words in election years. Their misapplication of the term "conservative" hasn't changed the fundamental principles true conservatives adhere to.
It is those principles that make up conservatism, not the pikers who adopt the name to deceive the electorate or their viewers.

I have long objected to the loose use of the word, and it is becoming meaningless in popular use. Conservatives need to find a new name, perhaps "Constitutionalists", because Republic-ans is taken and unfortunately not so Constitutional in their actions as a group. I have used the term"exceptional conservatives", because they are conservative except (fill in with departures from principle, in practice or preaching).

If we let this pass as "conservatism", then that is what the label will become, just another brand of political bullshit, passed off as something it is not, and often never was.

If those who practice the faux conservatism of lip service and deception during election years (as all too many TEA party candidates did) outnumber those of us who embrace Conservative principles, well, you will get what you vote for, and it will always be less.

Right now, the Republic needs more, not less.
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Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

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Offline sneakypete

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Re: LIZ PEEK: Herschel Walker just wrote Donald Trump's political obituary
« Reply #131 on: December 10, 2022, 11:28:42 pm »
Good for you!   You've found the problem with post-Reagan conservatives.    :hands:

@roamer_1

@Right_in_Virginia

HorseHillary!

It has a thousand freaking definitions,depending on who you are talking to.

Do you REALLY think conservatives are robots,incapable of independent thought?
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline roamer_1

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Re: LIZ PEEK: Herschel Walker just wrote Donald Trump's political obituary
« Reply #132 on: December 10, 2022, 11:54:53 pm »
HorseHillary!

It has a thousand freaking definitions,depending on who you are talking to.

Do you REALLY think conservatives are robots,incapable of independent thought?

@sneakypete

Conservatism has a thousand definitions?

No, it does not. Only to those who want to change what it means.

Online Hoodat

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Re: LIZ PEEK: Herschel Walker just wrote Donald Trump's political obituary
« Reply #133 on: December 11, 2022, 12:28:39 am »
Good for you!   You've found the problem with post-Reagan conservatives.    :hands:

Labeling someone as being a Conservative does not make that person a Conservative.  Take Donald Trump, for example.  .  .
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline sneakypete

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Re: LIZ PEEK: Herschel Walker just wrote Donald Trump's political obituary
« Reply #134 on: December 11, 2022, 12:40:25 am »
@sneakypete

Conservatism has a thousand definitions?

No, it does not. Only to those who want to change what it means.

@roamer_1

And YOU,of course possess the "One True Religion",right?

Or did you also create it?
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline roamer_1

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Re: LIZ PEEK: Herschel Walker just wrote Donald Trump's political obituary
« Reply #135 on: December 11, 2022, 12:56:03 am »
@roamer_1

And YOU,of course possess the "One True Religion",right?

Or did you also create it?

@sneakypete

Of course not. Read Burke. Read Kirk. Foundational to modern Conservatism. By definition. I would be nearly perfectly a Burkean Conservative... Right down the line...

As conservatism touches politics, there are two strains, Goldwater and Reagan, and three (really four) factions... Libertarian/Constitutional, Fiscal, Military/Foreign Policy, and Social/moral/cultural... I tend to be Reaganite more than Goldwater, but I am very comfortable with Goldwater... And the object of the exercise is to serve all four factions, and thereby earn their vote... The only purpose of political conservatism is to defend and promote the principles - The unmovable priorities - of the factions. All of them. Because that is what leaves them free to practice philosophical conservatism in liberty.

That, in a nutshell is all that Conservatism is or can be.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: LIZ PEEK: Herschel Walker just wrote Donald Trump's political obituary
« Reply #136 on: December 11, 2022, 01:45:09 am »
@roamer_1   @Right_in_Virginia

HorseHillary!

It has a thousand freaking definitions,depending on who you are talking to.Do you REALLY think conservatives are robots,incapable of independent thought?

Thank you for asking this @sneakypete   ------   I see from other replies to my post to @roamer_1 congratulating him for finding the problem with post-Reagan conservatives I wasn't clear.   Let me see if I can do better this time.

As I've said on this and other threads, I've no problem with conservative principles.  I support them and believe they remain the intuitive bond uniting all American patriots.  (Although I'm not tied to the "conservative' label, which IMO is becoming politically toxic ---- but, I digress).

My problem is with the whole crop of post-Reagan conservative pundits and politcians who have squandered Reagan's legacy.  They run from every political battle, have no legislative victories, have no national message which explains why they have no national base of voters  ---- and have lost the full reach of our government to the sociaists.

With this in mind, read again what I was responding to .....

I don't give a shit what you do. But words mean things. Conservatism has a definition. I will always rise to defend that definition. That is all I do.

Roamer's right ----- conservatives only rise to defend a definition, or a principle ----- and therein lies the problem.  Conservatives never rise to fight. 

I know conservative politicians and pundits are drawn to the arena of political ideas where debate points matter more than legislative and electoral victories.  But, in the name of all that is holy, conservatives need to gird their loins, leave the cocoon and get on the battlefield ----- or be content to remain viewed as useless.

Their rising to do more talking simply does not meet this moment in history.




« Last Edit: December 11, 2022, 01:46:32 am by Right_in_Virginia »

Offline roamer_1

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Re: LIZ PEEK: Herschel Walker just wrote Donald Trump's political obituary
« Reply #137 on: December 11, 2022, 01:53:54 am »

Roamer's right ----- conservatives only rise to defend a definition, or a principle ----- and therein lies the problem.  Conservatives never rise to fight. 


The hell you say @Right_in_Virginia . Sure we fight. I fought for thirty friggin years.
I just won't fight for *YOU* because your cause is not conservative, and does not mean a damn thing.

That's the problem with populists. All hat and no cattle. Foaming at the mouth for today, but no driving principles to sustain them till tomorrow... Where they'll be foaming at the mouth for something different.

You want my help, stand for conservatism. My last hurrah was the TEA Party and I was in that with all four feet... And it kicked ass.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2022, 01:55:40 am by roamer_1 »

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: LIZ PEEK: Herschel Walker just wrote Donald Trump's political obituary
« Reply #138 on: December 11, 2022, 02:00:14 am »
The hell you say @Right_in_Virginia . Sure we fight. I fought for thirty friggin years.
I just won't fight for *YOU* because your cause is not conservative, and does not mean a damn thing.


Offline roamer_1

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Online corbe

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Re: LIZ PEEK: Herschel Walker just wrote Donald Trump's political obituary
« Reply #140 on: December 11, 2022, 02:05:58 am »
   I think I'll roll another one if I'm gonna be lectured by a Trumper about Conservatism.
No government in the 12,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: LIZ PEEK: Herschel Walker just wrote Donald Trump's political obituary
« Reply #141 on: December 11, 2022, 02:09:59 am »
The hell you say @Right_in_Virginia . Sure we fight. I fought for thirty friggin years.

Just to be clear, my opinion is not of any private citizen, including you @roamer_1    ------ but of the political and pundit classes of post-Reagan conservatives.

Offline roamer_1

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Re: LIZ PEEK: Herschel Walker just wrote Donald Trump's political obituary
« Reply #142 on: December 11, 2022, 02:12:26 am »


Let me know when y'all get a little closer to 80% agreement @Right_in_Virginia ...

because right now, y'all are under 40 by my reckoning.

Offline roamer_1

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Re: LIZ PEEK: Herschel Walker just wrote Donald Trump's political obituary
« Reply #143 on: December 11, 2022, 02:16:03 am »
Just to be clear, my opinion is not of any private citizen, including you @roamer_1    ------ but of the political and pundit classes of post-Reagan conservatives.

Don't know who you're pointing at @Right_in_Virginia ... There's maybe 5 conservatives in the senate, and pushing 40 in the House. And none in media. But then that was not the focus either. TEA focused on the roots. If you are looking for Conservatism, look in counties and state houses. TEA never made it to the nationals. Because MurderTurdle and Tumpy.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: LIZ PEEK: Herschel Walker just wrote Donald Trump's political obituary
« Reply #144 on: December 11, 2022, 02:25:25 am »
Yeah. That's the problem.

Then your best place is outside the political arena.  Your all or nothing POV actually prevents the enactment of your principles ------ any of them.

Offline roamer_1

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Re: LIZ PEEK: Herschel Walker just wrote Donald Trump's political obituary
« Reply #145 on: December 11, 2022, 02:29:10 am »
Then your best place is outside the political arena.  Your all or nothing POV actually prevents the enactment of your principles ------ any of them.

Yeah... That's what the Bushites and the Romulans said too. Go figger. :whistle:

The point being, the principles of Conservatism intertwine. Without all, you have none. So being willing to support some, while throwing others under the bus is throwing all under the bus.

Online Hoodat

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Re: LIZ PEEK: Herschel Walker just wrote Donald Trump's political obituary
« Reply #146 on: December 11, 2022, 02:34:59 am »


Except when it comes to Trump.  If you are not 100% on board for Trump 100% of the time, then you are a Biden-loving #NeverTrump Communist.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline Bigun

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Re: LIZ PEEK: Herschel Walker just wrote Donald Trump's political obituary
« Reply #147 on: December 11, 2022, 02:43:30 am »
This thread is a perfect picture of why this country is in the state it is.

One of the major political parties demands, and gets, near perfect unity from its political class and the other spends ALL its time arguing about which bus they should ride in.

God help us!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline roamer_1

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Re: LIZ PEEK: Herschel Walker just wrote Donald Trump's political obituary
« Reply #148 on: December 11, 2022, 02:43:33 am »
Except when it comes to Trump.  If you are not 100% on board for Trump 100% of the time, then you are a Biden-loving #NeverTrump Communist.

Yes... And as always with faux-conservative movements... the demand to recognize that THEY carry the conservative mantle and get to define and change it.  *****rollingeyes*****

Offline roamer_1

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Re: LIZ PEEK: Herschel Walker just wrote Donald Trump's political obituary
« Reply #149 on: December 11, 2022, 02:46:38 am »
This thread is a perfect picture of why this country is in the state it is.

One of the major political parties demands, and gets, near perfect unity from its political class and the other spends ALL its time arguing about which bus they should ride in.

God help us!



The only bus that matters is conservatism. That's what I signed up for. And when Republicans threw it away, I walked off. For cause.

I didn't leave the Republicans. The Republicans left me.